Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Asalaamu Alaikum.

I am now in a place where I am comfortable and happy in my womanhood. Then I found Islam. It feels right to me. The God I had prayed to all my life finally called to me one day and I realized that I had been Muslim all along. But does this religion accept someone like me? That is the struggle I find within myself now. I cannot back down from being female, and I cannot denounce my faith in Allah subhanu wa ta'ala!!! I will not do either. Where do I fit in this grand scheme of things as a Muslim transgender? What is God's plan for me? Why did He send me on these paths??

While I'm most blessed and happy that I have finally found the truth and right path... I cannot help but feel that being transgender is going to prove difficult in my relationships with other Muslims. I know mukhannathuns are referenced in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Surrah, but is there a place for us here?

I would not have become a follower of Islam had I not truly believed in the Shahada.  And I would not have transitioned had I not felt I was really a woman inside.  All of what I do is because I believe it to be so.  How do I handle the brothers and sisters who cannot accept? 

In the same way we handle all those who do not accept us.  Through pray and faith.  Faith in ones self, in our decision and in our personal gods.  May you find those among your faith that will be accepting.



Blessed Be
Hugs and Love
Janet

Jazakallah Janet (May God reward you!) for your support.  I am trying to be strong!

That is all we are ask.  To be strong.



Blessed Be
Hugs and Love
Janet

In the koran - It supports and believes in transexuality but believes homosexuality is a sin.

Iran and Afghan government actually pays half of your surgery cost cause they'd rather have people who change and like the opposite sex then have two people of the same sex.

I really disagree with what those governments are doing though. For most of these people it means having to choose between having someone you love and having your body feel right. These people are purposefully given gender dysphoria needlessly, just so that their governments can pretend to uphold Quranic laws. And people who have transitioned are really discriminated against in those countries anyway. It's a lose-lose situation, really.  :(

Quote from: Fenrir on May 21, 2010, 12:20:44 PM
And people who have transitioned are really discriminated against in those countries anyway. It's a lose-lose situation, really.  :(

Not entirely I feel - if you are genuinely transsexual, happy in a hetero relationship after your SRS, and have a suitable partner who is willing to marry you then it could be tolerable. (or at least a lot better than being trans in a country where they take a different view and ban SRS.)

I've often joked with Alison that if the west ever went ultra right wing we would just have to disolve our civil partnership, go to Iran and find two nice men who wanted obedient and willing wives ;)

Out of curiousity I asked an imam that I know of what is the position as regards someone who has had SRS who then joins the Islamic faith, and they were of the opinion that one would be accepted as one was the time of conversion - that is after SRS as a woman. All that would be required would be to keep the observances of modesty required of all women. Although, from my western point of view, it would not be my first choice, it is something I could live with if I had to do so as the price of being female.

Hmm what is the official islamic opinion on transsexuals? Because I've found, using google.com, that a lot of muslims can't tolerate us :\ I think since some islamic states actually help pay for transsexuals transition, they must be rather tolerant of us..

My GF is a muslim and I hope to convert one day.

From what I've seen and read, they do allow transexuals but like I said they don't allow homosexuality. I'm sure they can tolerate someone whos undergone SRS cause the governments even pay for it. After transition, you're completly seen as a male or a female. Like every other religion and ethnic, there would be people who are against is but there is no law in Islam saying a transexuality is a sin.

i was born muslim but i converted to agnostic , however i have more than fair information about that subject

now there are two major sects in Islam : Sunni (the majority in arab countries), and sheia (the majority in Iran ,Iraq and Lebanon )

in quran there's no mention whatsoever of transgendered people , however there are some verses that prohibit "change in god's creation" (4:119) , and sunnies hence claim that transsexualism is a sin , unliss you were born intersexed (because in that case it's a medical condition , which in my point of view shows a total misunderstanding of GID by the scholars)

in the other hand shia as was said before allow it

and anyway , even if you were sunni , since you started transition before you become muslim then in any sect's point of view your doing nothing wrong , and even if you were in the middle of it you should continue to the end

as for the accepting part , being a transsexual right now , is something that a lot of people do not accept , especially sunnies , so it's up to you to tell them that your ts or not if you pass 100% woman .
good luck :)

Quote from: something else on May 22, 2010, 01:39:49 AM
so it's up to you to tell them that your ts or not if you pass 100% woman .

LOL Thats not going to be hard to do wearing a Hijab!

Quote from: Little Dragon on May 22, 2010, 04:22:10 PM
LOL Thats not going to be hard to do wearing a Hijab!

lol  yeah it's not that easy

Quote from: something else on May 22, 2010, 05:45:57 PM
lol  yeah it's not that easy

How so, sis? ;D

(PS, I know that the arabic for "brother" is Akhi, what is "sister" :))

well , i mean hair usually is not the biggest problem , even if you don't wear hijabi you can wear wig if the hair was too bad or too short , although wearing a vale would be a different story , easily pass 100%
and btw , the new avatar is so cool , okhti (arabic for sis ^_^ )

well, from what I understand the word 'hijab' is colloquially used to mean the head covering but really applies to all-over modest dress - most styles of proper hijab generally soften and camouflage body shape characteristics.

But it does draw attention to the face, which can be a negative. You certainly could never pass in hijab without electrolysis unless you veil (and then you'd have to put a lot of work into your eyes/eyebrows and your posture and movement). The more identifying attributes of your body you cover or conceal, the more people pay attention to the ones they can see.

Quote from: kyril on May 23, 2010, 04:00:22 PM
well, from what I understand the word 'hijab' is colloquially used to mean the head covering but really applies to all-over modest dress - most styles of proper hijab generally soften and camouflage body shape characteristics.

But it does draw attention to the face, which can be a negative. You certainly could never pass in hijab without electrolysis unless you veil (and then you'd have to put a lot of work into your eyes/eyebrows and your posture and movement). The more identifying attributes of your body you cover or conceal, the more people pay attention to the ones they can see.

true and informative even for me , thanks

Quote from: something else on May 23, 2010, 03:50:41 PM
and btw , the new avatar is so cool , okhti (arabic for sis ^_^ )

Ah, okay Okhti! ;D Eeee! Thanks for the compliament! I made it myself in photoshop ;D I think the arabic fo rmy name is Al'taneen Safirun ^_^

Quote from: kyril on May 23, 2010, 04:00:22 PM
well, from what I understand the word 'hijab' is colloquially used to mean the head covering but really applies to all-over modest dress - most styles of proper hijab generally soften and camouflage body shape characteristics.

Ah, I thought the veil was called the Hijab xD I once thought I could wear a hijab and veil if i ever visit arabic/urdu countries ;D

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Post Merge: May 23, 2010, 07:38:58 PM

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Quote from: something else on May 23, 2010, 03:50:41 PM
and btw , the new avatar is so cool , okhti (arabic for sis ^_^ )

Ah, okay Okhti! ;D Eeee! Thanks for the compliament! I made it myself in photoshop ;D I think the arabic fo rmy name is Al'taneen Safirun ^_^

Quote from: kyril on May 23, 2010, 04:00:22 PM
well, from what I understand the word 'hijab' is colloquially used to mean the head covering but really applies to all-over modest dress - most styles of proper hijab generally soften and camouflage body shape characteristics.

Ah, I thought the veil was called the Hijab xD I once thought I could wear a hijab and veil if i ever visit arabic/urdu countries ;D

Quote from: rejennyrated on May 21, 2010, 12:34:19 PM
Not entirely I feel - if you are genuinely transsexual, happy in a hetero relationship after your SRS, and have a suitable partner who is willing to marry you then it could be tolerable. (or at least a lot better than being trans in a country where they take a different view and ban SRS.)

Sorry, I wasn't very clear! I didn't mean that it was bad for people who actually are transgendered. I reckon that most of the gay people in Iran aren't, so by transitioning they lose their own identity, and if they don't they lose the opportunity to have someone they love. The being discriminated against regardless of what the government says was just an extra note.

The hijab is the hair covering (face exposed). When you can only see the eyes, that's called a niqab. Burqa is full covering. What extent you go to with covering yourself really depends on your interpretation, I know plenty of muslim girls who go without any of these.  :P

Yes I myself have worn the Hijab on many ocassions, in particular, out of respect, when visting with muslim friends. I find I quite like it, if you are in a liberal situation where you can choose coloured and paterned ones they can look very elegant and stylish.

The niqab and burqa are indeed a very different proposition. I think i would find those oppressive and difficult, but for me the Hijab iteslf does not really seem so.

I dunno, I had a friend that wore a niqab (which worried her family, who all thought it looked extremist  :laugh:) and she said she found it very liberating that people were not able to judge by her physical appearance. Of course, I think in the UK that is negated a bit by the unusualness of the niqab itself, but I do see her point in that it frees you from pressures to be attractive and all that. Of course, in countries, communities or families where it is enforced for women to wear it, it is oppressive no matter whether it's a simple hijab or a full burqa.
And yes, hijabis can look very stylish! It was the one part of school uniform that could be any colour you liked, it was nice. One of my other friends used to dye her hair all sorts of crazy colours because she could just hide it with her hijab and no-one would know the difference.  :P

"But if two lovers walk hand in hand, all their sins are forgiven." Muhammed.
The Quran teaches love and understanding, most of all. Even if that goes against some other verses in the Quran. It also states that no mortal is to judge the beliefs and behaviour of other people, unless they harm others with them.
Like the other holy books of Islam, namely: Torah, Tenach and the New Testament, it's not as easy as 'yes' or 'no.' It mostly depends on how you perceive God.
For instance: I know an Imam who, apart from getting people of all genders to pray in the same mosque hall, also tries to get homosexuality to be more accepted in his parish. He claims that both the Islamic ninety nine names and the hebrew JWHW can all be summed up as one single all-encompassing name: God is Love. And Love is God.

To sum it up: It really depends on the muslim you ask.

Yes, I think that unfortunately in a lot of cases religion gets mixed up with culture and certain things (wearing of burkhas, arranged marriages, homophobia, transphobia etc.) become accepted as 'religious tradition' when in reality there isn't any religious backing for them.
Dryad, your Imam sounds cool.  ;D

to comment on the niqab and such , the niqab itself is not oppressive ,most countries (almost all) that have a majority of muslims dont force it to anyone , and even work against it trying to initiate laws that prohibit it in certain cases , the only country i know about that enforces the niqab is Saudi Arabia , and it's more of a traditional thing rather than religious , and enforcing anything without common sense or respect of freedom is indescribably wrong and a great deal of oppression and prosecution
on the other hand , there are some countries (with/without) muslims majority (e.g. Algeria ,France....) that prohibit or at least limit the waring of niqab , which also i think is wrong and also a great deal of oppression of freedom because in these countries it's clearly their choice and no one is forcing anyone to wear anything.  same as prohibiting a bio male/female to transition so thet they don't "fool" people , it's kinda funny and sad at the same time

so i agree that the real problem is with individuals and how they interpret their thoughts/believes . whether they were religious or not .

Can a convert transexual wear a  Hijab

Quote from: jaylasadorah on October 01, 2011, 08:24:34 PM
Can a convert transexual wear a  Hijab

Anyone can wear a hijab if they feel like it. :)

Do you mean to pray, do salat?

Quote from: Maiden on November 30, 2009, 05:15:56 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum.

I am now in a place where I am comfortable and happy in my womanhood. Then I found Islam. It feels right to me. The God I had prayed to all my life finally called to me one day and I realized that I had been Muslim all along. But does this religion accept someone like me? That is the struggle I find within myself now. I cannot back down from being female, and I cannot denounce my faith in Allah subhanu wa ta'ala!!! I will not do either. Where do I fit in this grand scheme of things as a Muslim transgender? What is God's plan for me? Why did He send me on these paths??

While I'm most blessed and happy that I have finally found the truth and right path... I cannot help but feel that being transgender is going to prove difficult in my relationships with other Muslims. I know mukhannathuns are referenced in the Qur'an, Hadith, and Surrah, but is there a place for us here?

I would not have become a follower of Islam had I not truly believed in the Shahada.  And I would not have transitioned had I not felt I was really a woman inside.  All of what I do is because I believe it to be so.  How do I handle the brothers and sisters who cannot accept?

I don't think that in the Qur'an that it makes any suggestion of negativity towards the transgendered.
un fortunately those of any faith in trying to validify their dislike of a thing seek to find justification for that dislike in their faith.
however i am not aware of any negativity towards ->-bleeped-<- in the qur'an, and so i would ask a person to point such out and justify their belief. And point out how Mohammad forbade the harm of the mukhannathun that he banished.

Though i imagine one looking hard might find some way to abstract that the qur'an says such and such and thus it follows that such and such is not good.... that is done all the time...
If you can think of a particular argument of how  one might say regarding islam that ->-bleeped-<- is wrong I can do my best to provide a counter argument... i am decently versed in the qur'an... however I am not familier with all hadiths and not to a great extent any particular one (as of current)... personally i do not hold as much weight to them as I find that they are second source.

Off the top of my head I would start an argument by saying that "even if there are hints at it being bad, I would think that Mohammed would have pointed it out very explicitly if it was something we really needed to be that concerned about."

Or "Mohammad worked hard to give us clear signs, I would think the lack of clarity on this subject is sign that it is of no spiritual relevance."

There are hadith that hit hard on these issues, here's one:

Sayyiduna Abd Allah ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) relates, that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) "Cursed those men who imitate women and those women who imitate men."

(Sahih al-Bukhari, 7/205)

At the end of the day only Allah (swt) can judge us and that's where I myself put my hope and trust.

Of course if someone were to become a Muslim after having transitioned, or done anything at all for that matter, that's fine as all previous sins are forgiven. Unbeatable deal in my opinion but one not open to those of us who are already Muslim. Of course there are people out there who would attempt to refute this or perhaps say that one would have to detransition or whatever but can't see their argument holding from a strictly theological perspective.

If you will accept a contribution from a non-Muslim who hold Islam in high regard.

I would read the Hadith in #26 as being those men who seek to imitate women for gain. Not people born with male parts yet who are clearly women in spirit. That's just a viewpoint and no insult is intended toward the scholars.

However, I will also point out that, in my fairly extensive look at Hadith, I found many that seem quite extreme, often out of keeping with the spirit of so much else. If I may suggest, Hadith need to be read in context and often is it quite difficult to find the context of something related through several previous people.

Quote from: spacial on October 03, 2011, 02:30:22 PM
If you will accept a contribution from a non-Muslim who hold Islam in high regard.

I would read the Hadith in #26 as being those men who seek to imitate women for gain. Not people born with male parts yet who are clearly women in spirit. That's just a viewpoint and no insult is intended toward the scholars.

However, I will also point out that, in my fairly extensive look at Hadith, I found many that seem quite extreme, often out of keeping with the spirit of so much else. If I may suggest, Hadith need to be read in context and often is it quite difficult to find the context of something related through several previous people.

Heh, of course I accept the opinions of all :)

Not sure why you would read it that way, there's not really much to read it any way apart from what's there in my opinion.

Apart from looking up this particular hadith in the circumstances or others for specific reasons I haven't read a hadith for maybe 20 years and am not religious at all. To be perfectly frank my opinions around Islam are probably heretical and downright offensive to many. As I mentioned previously I still do Ramadan but that's about it.

If there was a model that we could hope to achieve it would be the one in Yogyakarta for me (see link below). On the other hand neither Indonesia nor Yogyakarta are representative of the Muslim world, try the same thing in Aceh Province and the s**t will hit the fan. Islam in Java is is really split into Santri and Abangan tendencies. Incidentally they represent the two colours of the national flag, white and red. Santri is traditional mosque based Sunni Islam and Abangan is heavily influenced by indonesian traditional beliefs and I don't really know that much about it. I was once married into an Indonesian family split down the middle on this and in the (way over the top) wedding photos one side of the family is lined up all hijabi and traditional while the other is lined up hair uncovered apart from jasmine flowers javanese style.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15137281,00.html (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15137281,00.html)

Quote from: mimpi on October 04, 2011, 05:53:02 AM
Heh, of course I accept the opinions of all :)

Not sure why you would read it that way, there's not really much to read it any way apart from what's there in my opinion.

I understand your point. But I have noticed that many Muslims, recognised as devout, do indeed seem to be somewhat flexable with some hadith.

For example, there are numerous hadith referring to the necessity for a man to keep his beard, yet we know that many, accepted as devout and good Muslims do indeed appear clean shaven.

http://www.zikr.co.uk/content/view/54/94/ (http://www.zikr.co.uk/content/view/54/94/)

I'm only making this point to emphasise that many hadith are not necessarily take literally. It certainly isn't my place, nor intention, to question Islam.

Look, to give you an idea how things are my flatmate who is Muslim and a lesbian received just now a post on Facebook saying "Gays are not in the fold of Islam but it is for Allah (swt) to decide on them on the Day of Judgement".  That statement is is an oxymoron as it implies Takfir inherently.

As for the Sufi site you linked to I'm not into that kind of heavy stuff, there are more important things in this world than the length of people's beards. Allah (swt) knows what is our hearts, he is closer to us than our jugular vein (Quran) and only he can judge us.

I can accept condemnation for tattoos, sleeping around, dishonesty etc but not for being trans or for being not heterosexual in the conventional sense.

I apologise for the site. I appreciate that the approach of those groups is not necessarily shared by the majority.

However, I was simply attempting to demonstrate that most Muslims are quite flexable about how they interperate various hadith.

But I am not a Muslim. I have no wish to interfere. I was simply trying to offer some support in relation to #26.

Good luck.

No worries, Spacial. Wasn't trying to upset you or contradict your point. I agree most of us are flexible on that issue-

Btw, I'm not getting post numbers here so am not to sure what you mean by #26. Are they activated by profile settings?

As far as I'm concerned you have every right as a non Muslim to ask or question anything you wish. Probably I'm not the best person to answer things but if there's anything you wish to know or ask I'll do my best to make sure I get an answer from someone more knowledgable than myself and get back to you.

Take care  :)

Quote from: mimpi on October 04, 2011, 08:34:21 AM
Look, to give you an idea how things are my flatmate who is Muslim and a lesbian received just now a post on Facebook saying "Gays are not in the fold of Islam but it is for Allah (swt) to decide on them on the Day of Judgement".  That statement is is an oxymoron as it implies Takfir inherently.

As for the Sufi site you linked to I'm not into that kind of heavy stuff, there are more important things in this world than the length of people's beards. Allah (swt) knows what is our hearts, he is closer to us than our jugular vein (Quran) and only he can judge us.

I can accept condemnation for tattoos, sleeping around, dishonesty etc but not for being trans or for being not heterosexual in the conventional sense.

The fact that tattoos are banned may be a protection to prevent such things as the electronic RFID tattoos...

Thankfully my tattoo predates RFID technology!

Quote from: Dryad on May 28, 2010, 09:41:29 AM
"But if two lovers walk hand in hand, all their sins are forgiven." Muhammed.
The Quran teaches love and understanding, most of all. Even if that goes against some other verses in the Quran. It also states that no mortal is to judge the beliefs and behaviour of other people, unless they harm others with them.
Like the other holy books of Islam, namely: Torah, Tenach and the New Testament, it's not as easy as 'yes' or 'no.' It mostly depends on how you perceive God.
For instance: I know an Imam who, apart from getting people of all genders to pray in the same mosque hall, also tries to get homosexuality to be more accepted in his parish. He claims that both the Islamic ninety nine names and the hebrew JWHW can all be summed up as one single all-encompassing name: God is Love. And Love is God.

To sum it up: It really depends on the muslim you ask.

I LOVE YOU ALL!