Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've noticed with a lot of people on this forum that they talk funny, depending on thier gender idenity.

The females on this site seem to act like a stereotypical woman, with all the "Hun"s and all the "Girl" and putting people of the other gender down.

The males seems to do the opposite, acting also stereotypical, saying things like "Dude" and other male slang.

They both seem to fling this around more then the average male or female on the internet, so much so that it seems like acting. I wonder why that is? I find this fustrating.

Why do you guys do this? As I said, this isn't typical behavior, and I assume some thought is going into it, conscious or not.

Well, what do you guys think?

(Disclaimer: I am not attacking your gender idenity)

For me.  It is the freedom to use words like Hon, Sweety girl and so forth.  I have always had fun with both men and women as far as putting the gender down.  I believe if we can't laugh at ourselves then we are a sad lot.  Race jokes are not tolerated however.

On this site it is just a relief to be able to have the interactions with the opposite gender, people like us and to express our true selves.  As for me, I am a real girlie girl when I can get away with it.  I just love being a woman.

And for the most part what you see is what you will get in person.



Hugs and Love
Janet

For me, some it is natural and some of it is just trying things out.  I was always in a cage that I built for myself out of society's expectations.  When I could, I would be silly, even when it got me in trouble as a pretend man.  Now I am free to express a lot of those things.  In some ways, those of us in transition are teenagers - experimenting, trying things out, seeing what fits and what doesn't.

And for me, most of the putting down the other gender is just having fun.  I wouldn't do it if I thought they wouldn't give it right back to me. ;) 

Seriously, though, it is part of redifining yourself in the new gender role.  Some of us have a lot of the wrong socialization to peel off.  We'll be more realistic as we settle into our new roles.  (Probably. ::))

- Kate

I think I may sound silly.

But it's just me, regardless of my gender. It's just the way I sound like in my head.

Not silly, more on borderline insanity. Plus I just write and write, and then it becomes some epic thing when it begun just as a simple comment. I usually like to write all the small details like it was my personal journal for no apparent reason, and I think I have a small audience in my forums who like my words.

Do I sound feminine or masculine? I don't know, remove my avatar and my name I could be ambiguous.

I think people condition themselves into what they want to model after until they are exact replica of what they admire.

Think of Mean Girls, where Lindsay Lohan copy the blonde bee, until she actually became it.

Because I still appear quite obviously female, I think I do tend to play up my male characteristics (the way I speak, act and dress) a bit to get people I talk to to think beyond their original assumption about my gender. And if I were male-bodied it would be the other way round. I'm screwed either way, basically.  :D

I never use words like hon, girl, etc.

Huh, this is quite interesting, but I thought there would be more people posting.

So are you guys saying that you are sounding like that because you are experimenting? Or you are trying to appear more like the gender you want to be seen as?

And Laura, I didn't say EVERYONE was doing it. :P

For me, it is just who I am.



Hugs and Love
Janet

Quote from: Hazuki Heartwood on December 08, 2009, 09:28:45 PM

And Laura, I didn't say EVERYONE was doing it. :P

I know. I was just stating that I don't do that is all.

I do use hon a lot. lol

Quote from: Nero on December 08, 2009, 09:47:13 PM
I do use hon a lot. lol

I know, it's kind of awesome somehow when you do it. :P

I guess it seems somewhat counter-cultural to me.

I guess some people like Janet and Nero maybe do say those things naturally. I was just curious about the rest, unless we just have a really high concentration here or something, which would lead me to the question of why we have one here.

Interesting - I hadn't consciously noticed such a pattern in slang usage.

On the other hand, I have noticed (from my cis-perspective) quite a few ironic mentality "lapses" where an individual has said something that sounds just like what I would imagine someone of their *natal* gender to say.

At the risk of getting a punch in the teeth, I've noticed far more variation from FtM's - sometimes things are said that somehow stand out as "odd" or in some way incongruous against my own cis-conditioned and parochial view of what a male attitude is...often when I observe a debate on a thread :)  At the other end of the spectrum, there's one or two that come over as absurdly over-playing a male stereotype as if being brashly egocentric and viewing women as nothing but titty and bush is all there is to being a guy.

(Sometimes we are like that of course - but when it's overplayed in the wrong context, it really sticks out like the proverbial sore thumb)

I guess I wondering where I fit in these opinions of slang usage and lapses and over doing the gender role thing. Anyone willing to share? I would like to know if I need to alter my behaviors in some way. You may do it in a pm if you like.

I think there are large variations in how much people use "hun", "honey", "girl", "sweetie" in real life.
At work, one woman sometimes calls me "sweetie".
Another woman naturally uses "honey" on all under ten year-old customers.
Finally, one guy uses "miss" on all female customers even if they are 90!

Wait till you attend your first RL transgender meeting.  There you will be FLOODED with it.  It reminds me of people who, when first starting to transition, go overboard on how they dress sometimes to ludicrous levels, but eventually, after getting that out of their system, they settle back to more normative behavior.  I wouldn't get it get to you, and I think everyone is aware of it.

Possibly it's self-consciousness? When you're uncertain of yourself, and feel like you're surrounded by people who're probably examining every little thing you do (regardless of intent) things just come out awkwardly over-acted.

I don't know if I do anything like this. I'd be interested to find out. :laugh:

The bit about saying things in ways that don't 'fit' the male gender stereotype though? Yeah, I smack of that, and I know it. Just because I want to be physically more male, doesn't mean I'm going to give up some of my hard-earned personality traits (like being conscientious, courteous, and caring for other people - being more in touch with my emotions - other 'empathic' attributes commonly associated with females). Won't do me any good to fling myself clear out of one gender box just to smash face-down into the other one.

Quote from: interalia on December 09, 2009, 01:59:17 PM
Wait till you attend your first RL transgender meeting.  There you will be FLOODED with it.  It reminds me of people who, when first starting to transition, go overboard on how they dress sometimes to ludicrous levels, but eventually, after getting that out of their system, they settle back to more normative behavior.  I wouldn't get it get to you, and I think everyone is aware of it.

At six weeks full time I went to a week-long (non-trans) conference in another city.  I took six pairs of shoes.  The woman I went with teased me about it a little but later said she realized it was like when she was a teenager – trying things out, not sure what would work, enjoying the opportunity to do it.

We have to learn how to operate this proto-woman or proto-man, just as a teenager has to learn how to operate this proto-adult.

And I like to be able to call people hun or sweetie or dear.  I think I'm entitled, being an older woman and all. :)

- Kate

I don't really fling out huns and stuff over the internet just because I don't believe that to be my writing. . . or really talking style.  I just think some people develop it because it's a way they maybe naturally talk and/or just type to people.  I don't look too deeply into the reasoning, it's just the way I prefer to talk and stuff haha.  However, I do tend to throw out "hahas" and smiley faces like there's no tomorrow.  And I'm just always weirded out over the internet because humor is sorta a hard aspect to get and I hate getting those in those awkward situations where someone takes you seriously when not meant to be

Now that you point it out, I'm suddenly aware that I use "dude" and "bro" a hell of a lot. I do it out loud too.

Can't remember the last time I wrote "dude" or "bro" here on the forums. When I use "dude" IRL, I usually use it for effect--as a joke or as a criticism of someone who thinks he's Way Too Cool to Live. Dude.

Damned if I know, dude.  I don't worry about it, hon.




Bev

 :D :D

Hmm. . . well I use dude in real life, because I pretty much always have because my father used to say it a lot.

About the forum, I don't think I act here. But if you think I do, it's probably because I'm insecure in my masculinity.

*shrug* I've always talked this way. And I know guys who talk the same way as me.

I do use Hon, Guy, dude etc.

I have never thought I was acting. I do this in life, I tend to call the males in my work place (if not using their proper names) matey and the females Hun. Nothing meant by it.

Have to admit never really thought about it. Yes I'm sensitive to pronouns, but so what?

I also tend to use colloquialisms for people who are friends, because they are friends.


Ok Hun?
Cindy

Quote from: Miss Bev on December 09, 2009, 09:33:09 PM
Damned if I know, dude.  I don't worry about it, hon.




Bev

:D :D :D :D

I use "bro" & "man" a lot.  :o :o :o

I use 'guy' sometimes; it's generally used like most people tend to use it, as a generalization for a group of people. Everyone is a potential guy when grouped, even a group full of girls. I don't mind being called a guy (provided they're referring to the collective I am in) for the same reason.

Also, I tend to use 'guy' to refer to someone who did something irksome that I never actually saw the face of. But I tend to classify all such people as men by default anyways, so... Yeah. ^_^

I absolutely feel that some transfolk can find themselves overcompensating for their biological problem, at least earlier on (during transition for instance).
I've got the luck of having a partner that pokes me, in the bloody ribs!, and lets me know when he sees me doing some "out of character" male posturing... and it does happen at the very least once or twice a month. (I'm sure it would happen a lot more often if he were on this forum too, and I've told him he can come hang out here, but he just doesn't have anything to say so... )

The thing is.. I'm not aware of it, not consciously anyhow, until pointed out. And once pointed out, I feel a little silly about it since, well, Men come in all sizes, colours, and flavours! Why would I feel the need to fulfill an out of character role to be one?

I don't really use the 'hun' or similar words because it doesn't really fit my personality.

This is something I've noticed in other communities more than this one, actually... It reminds me of a phenomenon in the gay community connected to coming out. It's usually called gay puberty, although that can refer to other things and there are lots of names for it. My friend john (who is gay) used to call it "gay-vomiting," which is kind of gross, but I guess it's descriptive.

Essentially what happens is the in-the-closet gay person stuffs down their gay-ness. All the little traits and mannerisms that are natural to them and could be stereotyped as "gay" are hidden and stuffed in a corner, then freed when they come out. Because they've been shoved aside for so long, these traits take the forefront for a short period of time and push *other* traits aside. This usually doesn't last too long, (mine lasted about a month) and when they settle back down they're a more whole and balanced person.

This doesn't happen for everyone of course, but it definitely happens a lot :)

I don't think this is exactly the same, but there seems to be an interesting cycle of repression/self expression/self discovery going on.

Quote from: Hazuki Heartwood on December 08, 2009, 06:49:50 PM
I've noticed with a lot of people on this forum that they talk funny, depending on thier gender idenity.

The females on this site seem to act like a stereotypical woman, with all the "Hun"s and all the "Girl" and putting people of the other gender down.

The males seems to do the opposite, acting also stereotypical, saying things like "Dude" and other male slang.

They both seem to fling this around more then the average male or female on the internet, so much so that it seems like acting. I wonder why that is? I find this fustrating.

Why do you guys do this? As I said, this isn't typical behavior, and I assume some thought is going into it, conscious or not.

Well, what do you guys think?

(Disclaimer: I am not attacking your gender idenity)

You pretty much have it right... Its insecurity, and trying to be 'most male or most female' to validate themselves against eachother.

It is a little odd.... considering 30-40yo women are going 'hon and girl' and 'like awesome' and acting like 13 yearolds... The dude comments from guys is less steriotypical...


However the 'putting the other gender down' bit im not sure about.. We do it a lot at uni... its fun to chat behind guys backs... though some here may not notice its in jest.

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 11, 2009, 08:49:45 PM
You pretty much have it right... Its insecurity, and trying to be 'most male or most female' to validate themselves against eachother.

It is a little odd.... considering 30-40yo women are going 'hon and girl' and 'like awesome' and acting like 13 yearolds... The dude comments from guys is less steriotypical...


However the 'putting the other gender down' bit im not sure about.. We do it a lot at uni... its fun to chat behind guys backs... though some here may not notice its in jest.

Aboslutly NOT.  It is called puberty, we all get to go through a second one, regardless of age.

It is?

I didn't devolve six years when I started hormones... I stayed a fairly average mental 19, and grew older... I've heard this 'second puberty' thing... and while I understand it chemically, and experienced it, the phenomenon of m2fs mentally turning 13 foxes me.... Wtf? Puberty doesnt mean you have to act like a child... or behave like one as some think they can or should.

My friends and I use honey and sweety and darling all the time. But it's not really out of the ordinary in Australia, most women here use terms like that when talking to friends.

LOL - and there was I assuming it was just a cultural thing.  :embarrassed:

I always assumed people who say Dude were just surfers, and Hun or Hon tends, to my Eurpoean ear, to sound like it is just a typical Americanism.

I had a girl in my MA seminar group last year who called everyone Dude! She definitely wasn't Trans. Prettiest girl in the class.

Possibly cultural.
I use Honey and Hun all the time on and off boards. I tend to say "morning Hun" to any of the female staff coming in to work. "Hi matey" to the guys. I don't use dude, seems to be an Americanism. Refer to everyone as "Guys". Sweet is also common in Australia as Birdie said.

Cindy

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 11, 2009, 08:49:45 PMIt is a little odd.... considering 30-40yo women are going 'hon and girl' and 'like awesome' and acting like 13 yearolds...

Uhm, Most of the cis-women I hear using the terms "hon" and "girl" with one another are well into their 20's or older, so I hardly associate that with thirteen year olds (besides, over half the people I know that use "hon" are grown men anyway...).
And I don't believe I've ever seen one of the women here use "like awesome" (or use the word like excessively) though I've seen people (not just the girls) use the word awesome, it's a perfectly accurate word for many situations and not age nor gender specific in it's general usage either. 

irritates me that this one gas station attendant calls me hon and sweetie, she is in her 50's. it feels just wrong to me, a friend says she does it to everyone.

I have finally worked out that I am some species of Androgyne, so being an Aussie, I will call everyone "Mate" ;D

To misquote Churchill, "Americans and Australians, two people divided by a common language".

Quote from: Miniar on December 12, 2009, 05:09:35 AM
Uhm, Most of the cis-women I hear using the terms "hon" and "girl" with one another are well into their 20's or older, so I hardly associate that with thirteen year olds (besides, over half the people I know that use "hon" are grown men anyway...).
And I don't believe I've ever seen one of the women here use "like awesome" (or use the word like excessively) though I've seen people (not just the girls) use the word awesome, it's a perfectly accurate word for many situations and not age nor gender specific in it's general usage either.

You misunderstand, i wasnt refering to people saying 'awesome' i was refering to the 'like, awesome' valleygirl speak thing that some transwomen word vomit. The Hon and girl thing, is again. 'excess' I know lots of guys that say hon, women say it too... but its mostly 'love' here.

I mean, I'm in college... its a pretty childish place at times, and pretty free... none of that stuffy adult maturity, but all the other girls are just normal people... Some here act like charactures. Theres deffinately overcompensation amungst transwomen and some trans men, although I admit, transmen seem to do it less. Be it validation, or 'second puberty' it looks right daft.... all this running around saying 'oh my goddess' 'goddess damn' finishing every sentence with 'hon'. While phrases may be used, or even common in the non trans population... transwomen seem to saturate it somehow, hon.

Mind you, one can argue that the regression to the teenager-like state is an important part of transitioning, from a psychological standpoint, as a means of overwriting those years with new experiences.
For many transpeople the teen years are a big problem because of the whole body betraying us and becoming what we don't want it to be and so on, and as such, that stress forces us to grow up fast and/or robs us of the chance to be a regular teen.
I mean, everyone regresses at some point or another, in some way or another, to one part or another of childhood. It's a part of normal psychological health.
I for one dance and sing and play board games and make childish jokes...

Not saying it's "right" or anything per default, just that I grok it, and it's not that strange "really" when you think about it.

True, we all need a time when we dont have to act our age, but an important thing I belive we need to note, is that in some cases, mostly, transsexual women in this case, have problems 'letting go' of that again. Regressing to a childlike state of behaviour in thier 50s, in public, as default persona, is relatively terrifying... literally 'behaving' like a teen, not just feeling like it. I can undestand the feelings... it all new, its puberty... its how things ought to have been, but for gods sake... the school girl outfit and pigtails on a 50yo woman is quite possibly a tad too far. Excentric example... but you can see my point yes?

I do see your point, but then, in all fairness, one sees 50 year old cis-women doing the same, so I have a little problem seeing it as a trans related thing first and foremost. ;)

Ugh, thanks for the memory nudge... the locals that used to come into the bar I worked in... i've never seen women so old that its hard to tell where thier skin tight leather mini dress ends, and thier flesh begins.

Hangon, don't we pity ciswomen that do that? Whats the difference?

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 12, 2009, 09:30:06 AM
Hangon, don't we pity ciswomen that do that? Whats the difference?

That's my point.
This thread is on how transfolk sometimes "over-sell" their preferred gender.. so.. maybe acting/dressing like a 13 year old isn't overselling if the cisgendered girls are no better ;)

When I was a cross-dresser, I dressed my age and the local style but noticed there were some who seemed stuck in a certain age or era.  There weren't many, but they were really noticeable.

I think the same is true with trans-people.  There are some who overplay it, and so they are really noticeable.  Less noticeable are the majority who just blend into the background.

I sent my avatar picture with my Christmas letter.  My ex-wife wrote that it's really cute that I'm enjoying my girlishness by being willing to wear a skirt when it's snowing and that she always wears pants because she doesn't want her legs to be cold.  Who knows?  I may not wear a skirt in the snow next winter.

I've found transition to include a very steep learning curve.  Anytime anyone is learning a whole lot of things in a short time, that person will make mistakes.  It's just part of the process.

- Kate

Overacting is just stage shorthand for "chewing up the scenery and overplaying your part" something to keep in mind.

I do think everyones aware what it means to over act...

Kate, you're right, although I would like to raise a point from your post, which I think you agree with, if not... ok, but you mentioned 'blending in' I don't think you meant 'being boring or dull' but being percived as any other woman. Its what I read out of it... and I suspect it will get challenged by someone who loves wearing ball gowns to walmart.. but heck :P i'll fetch the popcorn.

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 12, 2009, 04:45:32 PM
someone who loves wearing ball gowns to walmart.. but heck :P i'll fetch the popcorn.

interesting, a gown made of balls. all type of balls?  after all you may want to be one of the people of walmart.

(gonna share that popcorn now?)

NB: You're right.  I mean being just one more woman along with all the other women - perhaps a little more stylish if that is what you like, or perhaps a little prettier if you can manage it.  I mean unremarkable - in the sense that you do not stand out other than as yourself.  (I've had people I've met briefly only once remember me, but I think it is because I'm friendly and talkative and perhaps because I'm a bit unusual looking.)

Somewhere (this thread?) Jenny said a "tell" was being too perfect.  I think this is true.  I've seen women who I figured had to be cross-dressered men because no natural woman ever looks that perfect outside of film or TV or air-brushed ads.

But if you want to wear a ball gown to Wal-Mart, go for it.  I'll be somewhere in the crowd that is goggling at you, thrilled by your chutzpah but not interested in joining in.  (And perhaps sharing NB's popcorn. :))

- Boring old Kate

Quote from: LordKAT on December 12, 2009, 06:07:52 PM
interesting, a gown made of balls. all type of balls?  after all you may want to be one of the people of walmart.

(gonna share that popcorn now?)

All types of balls... Big balls.... bouncing and full and everybody comes and comes again... if your name is on the guest list no one can take you higher... everybody says I've got the biggest balls of all...








(Disclaimer: Blame AC/DC, )

Never really think about it, I use guy a lot here, never really use dude, my BF calls me sweetie, darling or honey dear, depends on his mood, sometimes he can be childish and call me a ''good girl'' when Iv done something to please him and Im a middle age woman, its just harmless pet name stuff, just comes natural to some people, no big deal.
p

its not the pet names, its overuse of specifics being one facet of this subject... like guys all going 'dude' and the girls saying 'girl' and 'hon' every other word hon.... *grins*

I call other girls Chick, hon, sweetie, babes, darlin, etc... I call guys babes, hon... ah ok most but chick :P I guess its also more acceptable due to being 22.... 50 yo women walking around calling eachother 'babes' and 'girl' every other sentance is a little.... peturbing.

So just because I am 55, I am not allowed to use 'Hon', 'Girl' or another words or phrases like that.


Janet

If you read properly, you'll see I didn't say that. the key phrase of today here kids, is 'Over use'

Note that bit... 'over' meaning excess, too much, more than should....  >:-)

Quote from: Janet Lynn on December 12, 2009, 09:07:59 PM
So just because I am 55, I am not allowed to use 'Hon', 'Girl' or another words or phrases like that.

That's not quite what that's about. Seeing people do that makes us wonder about ourselves at that age, and we 20-somethings are not quite ready to think about that just yet. ^_^

Quote from: Janet Lynn on December 12, 2009, 09:07:59 PM
So just because I am 55, I am not allowed to use 'Hon', 'Girl' or another words or phrases like that.


Janet

mmm, a lot of women use hon. 70 and 80 year old ladies use hon. I wonder if this is cultural differences here.

Go into any truck stop and just listen.  It is very common use.

I use all those words (whatever seem appropriate - or even not, I call lots of guys 'babe') like I assume a lot of other people do, because it's easier than trying to remember someones real name.

Perhaps its a cultural thing... that's not quite my scene... even if they existed in this country.

It was glaringly obvious to me when I first came here, and despite hating it I will admit I have done a little of that here and there to fit in. IRL I've said Darling few times, but I've kept it to a minimum, even in my equivalent of a "gay puberty".

mm, indeed. I do remember a quote from 'so you wanna be a t-girl'

'True transsexuals always say hon at the end of any statement, hon.'

makes me giggle to think of sadly how true that is.

And that is a problem how again, Hon?

For the most part I think people act exactly how they need to act at any given time.  I don't really believe in 'overacting' -- who am I to decide how much is appropriate use of the word 'hon' and how much is too much?  It's kind of ridiculous.  It's just another form of deciding for other people what should be 'normal', and god knows we suffer enough of other people doing that to us already.

If you don't like it, then don't be around it.  Or stay and complain -- either way.  It's not really my issue.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on December 12, 2009, 09:28:55 PM
And that is a problem how again, Hon?

*facepalm*, hon

Most of the time I think I'm guilty of underacting, and perhaps holding back too much, to the point of seeming withdrawn or uptight. I'd rather overact honestly. Sometimes I wonder if I am then I notice some woman taking it to another level and feel better for a moment, then I remember to just be myself and not care whether I meet anyone elses standards. Often the women who I admire most personality-wise are more expressive and exhuberant anyways, so If a transwoman somewhere in internet land doesn't approve I won't be hurt by it, I don't want their advice anyways. I can't count the number of times I've been called hon sweetie or what-have-you by....OMG genetic 50-ish women! Imagine that? ...like yeah.

I've always hated being called "hon" etc. by people I am not having sex with (which I think is the only time it's appropriate) as I find it very condescending and will only put up with it if the person is much older than me. But sometimes I get it from people (women) who are my age or younger!
I have a theory (please no one attack me it's just a theory) that people who use these terms of endearment with strangers are actually being passive-aggressive. Women have been socialised in our culture to be passive-aggressive and I think "hon" is part of that. I've never heard a hetero man say it, probably because in our culture they have the right to be openly aggressive. I think when women or gay men use it it's a form of condescention, a way to put the other person down a notch and make themselves sound superior in some way - it's arrogant. Maybe it stems from a fear that they will not be respect as an equal in the relationship, that they themselves will be put down somehow (for being a woman, gay, trans etc) and be unable to defend themselves and openly retaliate the way a "man" can without social disapproval.
I'm not sure how valid this theory of mine is, all I know is that when I get called 'hon' I find it insulting. I treat others as my equal and I expect to be treated like an equal in return.  

I've lived all over the US and have found the use of "hon" and other things to be regional and cultural.  I would hear it in some parts of the country and some settings but not in others.  Some places it is an age thing – people over a certain age use it but younger people don't.  The US especially has a hugely diverse population that has all sorts of different cultural norms.  If I heard my Boston-area relatives (old New England Yankees) use it I would fall over in shock.  But when I'd go to Boston's North End (Italian area), it was just part of the normal social communication.  It's no big deal.

I've found that as Kate I wave my hands around a lot when I talk.  Now, if you're going to tell me that I shouldn't do that because that's too "->-bleeped-<-", I might say a bad word to you.

- Kate

Actually no... its not remotely '->-bleeped-<-' its a pretty normal of female communication. This isnt about picking a female characteristic, or even 'use of = ->-bleeped-<-' its that when people overuse these things...


Now see if you were windmilling away with your arms when talking... its another story :P

On one hand, yes, some people might be over-using certain gender appropriate slang.
On the other, it is also quite possible it's being seen as strange because it's being looked at too closely.

For example, a woman can use 'hon' and 'dear' regularly and not really be seen as strange. It's just part of the way she talks. If a woman here uses 'hon' and 'dear', is it really that strange or is perceived that way due to stereotypes?

Also what should be considered in this is 'group slang', where people within a specific group pick up and repeatedly use slang/in jokes/ect to fit in, I believe someone already mentioned doing this. They may not use these words in other groups, or in causal conversation, or at work. I've seen this in many different online communities in my life. I've not found a single place that's been running for more than 6 months that hasn't had this happen, and I've been online for ten years now. :)

One last thing, I've never really found 'dude' to be entirely male slang, I've heard plenty of cis-girls use it too. Maybe it used to be, but not so much now, in my opinion. It does seem pretty common in the younger generation. Those I've been around anyway, it may be different for others.

heh, must be the american younger generation... i've never heard girls here say dude. One of my friends says 'man' to everything, but shes crackers.... lol.

Once more, this isnt simple use of words, or phrases, its overuse of them, and overacting with certain actions and behaviours to try and 'be the more true transsexual' rubbish that seems to evolve.

Actually, if your not from California or Hawaii you most likely should avoid using 'dude' at all, as no doubt you have not been trained in its proper usage.

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 11, 2009, 08:49:45 PM
You pretty much have it right... Its insecurity, and trying to be 'most male or most female' to validate themselves against each other.

It is a little odd.... considering 30-40yo women are going 'hon and girl' and 'like awesome' and acting like 13 year olds...

Well, I haven't found myself tempted to use "hun" and the like but I don't know any 13 year olds who use "hun or "sweetie" or whatever - there almost always olderish women speaking to those younger than them.

As for "girl" or "girlfriend" that is something I've seen both in teenagers and in women in their twenties, thirties and forties (albeit there does seem to be an age ceiling - can't recall any retirement age women using it)

there ARE stereotypical teen-girl words and phrases that get used that come off as artificial...but I doubt you could name one I haven't heard a cis-woman use more than once.

That seems more like an age-compensation artifice than a gender compensation one.

Speaking for myself, I've occasionally used "girl" or "girlfriend" and in my experience it's an age-normal thing for women my age. So long as it's not excessive or artificial.

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Post Merge: December 14, 2009, 02:13:04 AM

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Quote from: K8 on December 12, 2009, 03:02:10 PM
I sent my avatar picture with my Christmas letter.  My ex-wife wrote that it's really cute that I'm enjoying my girlishness by being willing to wear a skirt when it's snowing and that she always wears pants because she doesn't want her legs to be cold.  Who knows?  I may not wear a skirt in the snow next winter.

I've found transition to include a very steep learning curve.  Anytime anyone is learning a whole lot of things in a short time, that person will make mistakes.  It's just part of the process.

- Kate

A couple of days ago I had to run a few errands and the temp outside was around 40 degrees. I wore a knee length denim skirt and I think i was the only person I saw while I was out (except Pentacostals) wearing a skirt.

I KNOW that I was outside the typical normal dress pattern for the conditions, but I did so for two reasons

First, I'm making up for years of not being able to wear one at all...I LIKE skirts very VERY much;

Second, at my body shape, the sort of causal everyday clothes a lot of cis-women wear without thinking - jeans, sweats, running pants, sweat shirts, etc - effectively squash the femininity of my presentation, so my cold-weather wardrobe is more limited than the typical cis-woman. Hopefully by next winter that will change.

Quote from: K8 on December 13, 2009, 09:12:38 AM

I've found that as Kate I wave my hands around a lot when I talk.  Now, if you're going to tell me that I shouldn't do that because that's too "->-bleeped-<-", I might say a bad word to you.

- Kate

Hey, I'm no ->-bleeped-<- but I am Greek - I probably wave my hands around more than you do!   :D

Well, I normally don't use words like 'dude' a lot on the internet, but in real life, I say 'dude' every other sentence. I guess I just try to type how I would talk in real life.

I think I've said 'hun' a couple of times on here because I felt the OP deserved it but I don't end every single sentence with 'girl', 'sister', 'sis', 'hun' & 'sweetie'.  That's just dumb & doesn't fit the way I talk or women talk irl.

Quote from: Ketsy on December 12, 2009, 10:12:08 PM
For the most part I think people act exactly how they need to act at any given time.  I don't really believe in 'overacting' -- who am I to decide how much is appropriate use of the word 'hon' and how much is too much?  It's kind of ridiculous.  It's just another form of deciding for other people what should be 'normal', and god knows we suffer enough of other people doing that to us already.

If you don't like it, then don't be around it.  Or stay and complain -- either way.  It's not really my issue.

If you use 'hon' literally every other word then people would be turned off. Further if it was every third word this problem would still exist, and of course doing it every fourth word would also sound odd. The point I'm trying to hammer home is that there is a rate of acceptable use. One hon per ___ words/syllables/sentences/et al.

I don't know what that rate is in any concrete terms, and I doubt any do; however, we all have an internal meter for this sort of thing. Obviously saying 'hon' every second word is going to bury the needle here. Beyond that there are also contextual cues which govern the use of a word like hon. If General Tommy Franks had referred to Dick Cheney as 'hon' there would be an uproar.

So yes it is silly and arbitrary, but that is society. Yes people can overact insofar as they will set off the meters of a majority of people. The social fabric seems to be in constant flux though so it's hard to pin down a categorical value for approapriate use or overuse of the word 'hon'.

Hmm I don't think I'm guilty of this, but I also don't see myself from a third person's perspective so I'm probably wrong.  I say mate a lot, and occasionally bro or man.  I think it's just because when I used to say those words, before I started transition, they had a different meaning than when a guy said it.  Lots of girls say man and dude but it's not perceived the same way.. like a guy saying "what's up man" to another guy is bro speak, you're both the same on some level.  A girl saying the same is just a girl using the word man.  I dunno how to describe it haha.  But me saying man to a guy is somewhat validating.  Before, it would be weird if I asked the random kid next to me, "Hey man, did I miss anything last class?" but now it's just normal cos they see me as a guy. 

That's the best I can explain it really

Funny, months, no years ago, I started getting my scripts at a certain pharmacy and the woman (sweet little 60+) would always refer to all of her customers as "sweetie". Eventually I started to use it all the time in public, at work, even started referring to my wife as sweetie. So in both male and female mode, it became a part of my verbiage. Then when I came to the forums, a funny thing happened (I know a movie pun) I also saw the use of "hugs", "hun", even "huggles", etc. and I again adapted to using them at times. I consciously try not to "over use" the terms, but I think they're cute at times and can be apropos. Besides, I'm approaching 60 and damn it, I've earned the right to sound how ever I want ::)

hugs, sweetie, Evie

p.s. I also use the "xoxo" (hugs and kisses)

Quote from: finewine on December 08, 2009, 11:51:46 PM
At the risk of getting a punch in the teeth, I've noticed far more variation from FtM's - sometimes things are said that somehow stand out as "odd" or in some way incongruous against my own cis-conditioned and parochial view of what a male attitude is...often when I observe a debate on a thread :)

I'm curious to know what some of these things are.  That's not a challenge, mind you.  I'm genuinely curious about what may be slipping out that most of us are probably completely unaware of, that may sound strange to other guys.

Quote from: The None Blonde on December 12, 2009, 09:26:26 PM
'True transsexuals always say hon at the end of any statement, hon.'

Does that apply to us as well, hon? :laugh:

Quote from: Aaron Chris on January 10, 2010, 10:09:27 AM
Does that apply to us as well, hon? :laugh:

no mate!

erm... I mean dude :D

that's... pretty darned aweome though.

Quote from: rejennyrated on January 10, 2010, 11:54:27 AM
that's... pretty darned aweome though.

I know I am, love. I know I am.  :)

.....What is A STEREOTYPE btw?

do you even belong to this forum? Just saying  ^-^

There is no female and male typing. DOh

If other guys think what I say is odd, they can so eloquently shove it.  :laugh:

I noticed the same thing. I think "hon","sweetie" and all of that are outdated. I rarely hear them said by girls.. I don't know if I ever personally heard anyone say them.

"Bro","Dude" are still in a bit depending on the guy. It's not so unnatural saying them.

I notice a lot of transgender people go crazy with their freedom to act feminine/masculine. It's like "FINALLY!!! I don't have to be afraid saying these words" etc and I understand that. But, if you act SO feminine, it's no longer feminine, it becomes something else.

All that aside, feel free to say whatever you want. I'm just trying to help out.

Quote from: Aaron Chris on January 10, 2010, 10:09:27 AM
Does that apply to us as well, hon? :laugh:

Oh deffinately, hon. But for you silly little boys you must say 'dude' or 'man' or 'belch' at the end of sentances.... god i cant keep it up... erm, I hope by your reply you saw i was taking the mickey. I think theres a severe case of ->-bleeped-<-r than thou in this and nearly any topic, where one half go overboard being x, and to prove how 'real' they are, the other half go as far from x as possible to show how 'normal' and 'real female' they are as they dont care.... heh, I say just relax, and do what you feel, and roll with it. Eventually time in generaly society will temper your language or behavior to that of those around you in a case of whats normal for guys and girls. If anything, thats something to aim for.
Though if someone comes in now and tells me how evil and wrong it is to 'conform' to society im going to scream...

Quote from: Hazuki Heartwood on December 08, 2009, 06:49:50 PM
I've noticed with a lot of people on this forum that they talk funny, depending on thier gender idenity.

The females on this site seem to act like a stereotypical woman, with all the "Hun"s and all the "Girl" and putting people of the other gender down.

The males seems to do the opposite, acting also stereotypical, saying things like "Dude" and other male slang.

They both seem to fling this around more then the average male or female on the internet, so much so that it seems like acting. I wonder why that is? I find this fustrating.

Why do you guys do this? As I said, this isn't typical behavior, and I assume some thought is going into it, conscious or not.

Well, what do you guys think?

(Disclaimer: I am not attacking your gender idenity)

ya i've noticed that too.  ridiculous!  if you think that women say "hun", "sis" and "girl" at the end of every sentence, you need to get out more.

Only times i hear sis... is between sisters. Blood sisters. Honey.... is more common, girl... this isnt 90210 :P

I always call the guys here, dude, man, etc.. and the girls here.. hun, ladies, etc

I think I do this because I know that a lot of us dont get called those things as often as we like. So I play it up, its a confidence booster for people.

I find that service people, female especially, use those words. The lady at the gass station, the checkout girl at walmart, waiters/waitresses, etc. I find it annoying when it is used on me. I use dude rarely and man a little more often, I don't think I do it to extremes tho. I will, on these forums , try to validate others identities through a little over use but not a lot as I think that comes off as fake.

Oh well that's me.

Honest question here Lordkat, but why do you feel thier identities need validating? I'm just a little curious as to the motivation really, I'd have thought that here of all places, Identities were accepted fully as it is.

Quote from: The None Blonde on January 31, 2010, 12:40:59 PM
Honest question here Lordkat, but why do you feel thier identities need validating? I'm just a little curious as to the motivation really, I'd have thought that here of all places, Identities were accepted fully as it is.

I know that all people have doubts at one time or another but most people never have their identities questioned by anyone. The people on this site do and letting them know that I view them as they view themselves is, I believe, welcomed by them. Outside of this site there are many who will see you as you present to them, you may blend in perfectly, but if the other person "knows" of your past, they sometimes still see you as a person you are not and let you know it. I think if feels good when you hear someone reassure you that you are OK.

How many times have I read of people, especially in early transition, who feel warm fuzzies when called by the correct gender in the world? If you hear nothing, sometimes you think about ti and wonder if you are seen as yourself or something else. Is it not comforting to hear that from others on this site as well?

I agree, LordKAT.  Last week I was talking to a nurse who knows of my past.  She ended the conversation with: "Thank you, dear."  It made me feel wonderful.

But then, I'm easy. :)

- Kate

Yeah, that sounds nice Lordkat :) I just wasnt sure what you meant :) Its deffiantely nice of you :)

i so like this.  i so hate that.  i totally like this.  i totally hate that. 

these phrases sound ok if you're someone considerably young, but if you're a 50-year old woman, they sound well stupid.

Well, I look 14, so I might as well act the part.

(Kidding..mostly.)

Quote from: Matilda on January 30, 2010, 04:26:35 PM
Do you know what I find irking as well?  The "OMG" or "Oh my God" after every word nonsense!  ::)


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss161%2Fmatilda23%2F061.gif&hash=8f2301193b0dc73bb2e3c64f938f2048ea1a0591)

Not as amusing as the 'oh my goddess' or 'my goddess' or other such feminisations to apear more girly...


NEVER heard a natal female say 'oh my goddess' pretty much all say 'oh my god' EVEN the valley girl pink idol... and you all know that type, like, oh my god..... if you don't you're like totally living in a cave!

Excuse Me!  Very much a slam against Pagan individuals.

And your statement of

QuoteGod became goddess when people escaped the REAL world to take refuge in their own la la land.

Is so far from the truth.

That is what I found offensive.

Please respect those of other faiths and also those who lack faith. (in a deity)

I know many pagans and witches and they do say things such as "blessed be" and "oh goddess" so I wouldn't consider that over acting. It's part of the religion and community. And as for people living in la la land you could say the same for any religion. It's faith and belief that's why it's subjective it's not something that comes from "the real world" it comes from inside.

Wow, who went and dug this fossil of a thread up? o.o

EDIT:Okay, I read through all the more recent responses, and I have to admit, the silly little things people say on this forum DO get under my skin, like putting "Goddess" in phrases instead of "God", and saying things like "Hon" and "Sis" and all sorts of ridiculous slang that is almost never used in real life. I've also obsevered that traditionally male phrases like "Dude" and "Man" that women actually use fairly often to refer to one another (At least, in teenagers) are never used on this website. This strange subversion of real life irritates me to no end, and I feel I must conclude that people are using this words on purpose just to make themselves and other look and feel more feminine, when all it does it make the speaker look silly.

No problem, Matilda

I'm glad you girls kissed an made up. But really next time you should post pics of the event.... ;)

~raspberry~ Nicky.  ;D

Quote from: Heartwood on February 22, 2010, 07:05:18 PM
EDIT:Okay, I read through all the more recent responses, and I have to admit, the silly little things people say on this forum DO get under my skin, like putting "Goddess" in phrases instead of "God", and saying things like "Hon" and "Sis" and all sorts of ridiculous slang that is almost never used in real life. I've also obsevered that traditionally male phrases like "Dude" and "Man" that women actually use fairly often to refer to one another (At least, in teenagers) are never used on this website. This strange subversion of real life irritates me to no end, and I feel I must conclude that people are using this words on purpose just to make themselves and other look and feel more feminine, when all it does it make the speaker look silly.

On this forum are people from all over the world and of a huge range of ages.  As an older woman, I am sometimes startled if a teenager talks to me the way she does to another teenager.  I find the speech mannerisms where I live in the American west to be different from those in the American south or New England or certainly old England (and let's not even start on Oz :)).  I live in a small town and find some ways of talking common that I didn't notice when living in a metropolitan area.  I love the variety and am not offended as long as people speak to each other with respect and kindness.

- Kate

I agree with Kate. There is such a variety of people here and some cultures do use specific diction.

I live in Southern California and I am exposed to most of these endearments and terms constantly. Not to mention I have a specific culture within the so Cal culture. I am always among industry artists.  Men and women tend to call me 'dude' 'hun' 'man' 'dear' 'luv' 'babe' and other such things. One specific freind insists on 'doofus' .  8)

I didn't really mind it when I came here because I get it everywhere else too. and I think it is a comfort thing as well. It is just polite and encouraging for others sometimes to show more gender specific terms.

Quote from: K8 on February 22, 2010, 09:08:27 PM(and let's not even start on Oz :)).

Are you kidding? There's a little market right down the parade (avenue) located between the bottle shop (liquor store) and the chemist (pharmacy) where they sell the best ever prawns (shrimp) and chips (french fries) for take away (to go). There's even a petrol station across the street that does smash repairs and where you can rent a ute to haul your rubbish bins to the tip.

I'm pretty sure they speak English here but it ain't American lol

Please respect those of other faiths and also those who lack faith. (in a deity)

If you really believe, or really don't believe - you can't do it.  You can shine it on, and put it off, ignore it, but respect?  Not possible.

Quote from: K8 on February 22, 2010, 09:08:27 PM
On this forum are people from all over the world and of a huge range of ages.  As an older woman, I am sometimes startled if a teenager talks to me the way she does to another teenager.  I find the speech mannerisms where I live in the American west to be different from those in the American south or New England or certainly old England (and let's not even start on Oz :)).  I live in a small town and find some ways of talking common that I didn't notice when living in a metropolitan area.  I love the variety and am not offended as long as people speak to each other with respect and kindness.

- Kate

LOL, it doesn't offend me, I just find it kind of annoying.

(I hope I'M not offending anyone...)

If it seems like people are acting, maybe (just maybe?) they're acting.
That being said, such judgments are unreliable at best.

I use dude, hon, chap, bu, "how are you gentlemen," and a wide variety of nerdy mannerisms acquired from geekdom and the internet.

Live long and prosper, yo.

Alot of ciswomen use the words hun, sweetpea, etc...and I don't use dude as much as I used to. *shrug*