Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I didn't know wether to post this under Politics, Hate, Humor so I posted it here.

The Poster has no views on Andy Rooney or his comentaries - but I thought it was light reading  :)

Quote
Andy Rooney ! said on "60 Minutes" a few weeks back:

I don't think being a minority makes you a victim of anything except
numbers. The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory
are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black
Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things
like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White
Entertainment Television, or Miss White America; and see what
happens...Jesse Jackson will be knocking down your door. Guns do not
make you a killer. I think killing makes you a killer. You can kill
someone with a baseball bat or a car, but no one is trying to ban you
from driving to the ball game.

I believe they are called the Boy Scouts for a reason, that is why
there are no girls allowed. Girls belong in the Girl Scouts! ARE YOU
LISTENING MARTHA BURKE?

I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it
is an opinion.

I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird, or tick me off.

When 70% of the people who get arrested are black, in cities where 70%
of the population is black, that is not racial profiling, it is the Law
of Probability.

I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes,
a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of
fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak
English!

My father and grandfather didn't die in vain so you can leave the
countries you were born in to come over and disrespect ours. I think
the police should have every right to shoot your sorry a_ _(bottom) if
you threaten them, after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand
the word "freeze" or "stop" in English, see the above lines.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you are
qualified for any special loan programs, government sponsored bank
loans or tax breaks, etc., so you can open a hotel, coffee shop,
trinket store, or any other business.

We did not go to the aid of certain foreign countries and risk our
lives in wars to defend their freedoms, so that decades later they
could come over here and tell us our constitution is a living document,
and open to their interpretations.

I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.

I know pro wrestling is fake, but so are movies and television. That
doesn't stop you from watching them.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made, and
continue to make more. If it ticks you off, go and invent the next
operating system that's better, and put your name on the building.

It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does
take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds
when necessary, and say "NO!"

I think tattoos and piercing are fine if you want them, but please
don't pretend they are a political statement. And, please, stay home
until that new lip ring heals. I don't want to look at your ugly
infected mouth as you serve me French fries!

I am sick of "Political Correctness." I know a lot of black people, and
not a single one of them was born in Africa; so how can they be
"African-Americans"? Besides, Africa is a continent. I don't go around
saying I am a European-American because my great, great, great, great,
great, great grandfather was from Europe. I am proud to be from America
and nowhere else.

And if you don't like my point of view, tough...

Don't shoot the poster  :)

Steph

"Don't shoot the poster 
"

Nope not all all Steph, It's someone elses words, I agree in priciple with nearly every word, I haven't had it in me to shoot anyone for some years now and probably couldn't unless no other way, and your just plain to nice to deserve it anyway.

I think I remember that one, I always liked Rooney.  He made sense I could understand and made me laugh doing it.

Terri

I'm afraid I was taken in, too, Stephanie. :(  See http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/rooney4.asp, for example.

-Celia

Ah, ha the tricky devils, oh well it's still topical, who ever wrote it.

Chat later

Steph

I knew at shoot your sorry ass it was a parody and not a great one at that. the rhythm is pretty much right, but it's over the top.

you agree with this?:
"I think that if you feel homosexuality is wrong, it is not a phobia, it
is an opinion."
I could define homophobia for you.

or this: "I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes,
a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of
fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak
English!"

LEGISLATION IS IN ORDER THEN! No fumbling pidgen English or non-responses at the corner liquor store buying pack o Winstons, wot?
Gotta hate those Koreans. Wogs. U-Name it.

Now isn't THIS special:
"The only things I can think of that are truly discriminatory
are things like the United Negro College Fund, Jet Magazine, Black
Entertainment Television, and Miss Black America. Try to have things
like the United Caucasian College Fund, Cloud Magazine, White
Entertainment Television, or Miss White America"

(gotta love "TRULY discriminatory".)
There are no magazines or television or college programs specifically marketed for white folx, NO WAY! Never seen one! those Negroes got a LOT o' nerve huh?

Sheesh.
I find a post indicating agreement with such sentiments a BIT disturbing, given the context of a forum that encourages differences.

Gotta agree with you there Jan. It's a pretty shallow analysis that deems Jet magazine to be racist without even looking at incarceration rates for black men, corporate American hiring patterns, and the like.

Dennis

Quote from: Dennis on June 05, 2006, 04:38:09 PM
It's a pretty shallow analysis that deems Jet magazine to be racist without even looking at incarceration rates for black men, corporate American hiring patterns, and the like.

Dennis

excellent observation, esp, as Jet is a buppie (black upwardly mobile) 'zine, look at "corporate hiring patterns".

TRULY DISCRIMINATORY: viz a viz a recent thread here, started by a troll, we exclude persons that do not agree with TG to come here and post that sentiment, per se, right? rule #9.
There are "right-thinking" individuals that would say that is an imbalance that needs to be addressed.
(Those same people are also liable to claim being non-PC.)

There was a guy responding to one of my rants here, basically that the Hitlers of the world were driven by a perversion, gently reminded me how insensitive that is.
Isn't that amazing.

Quote from: JanSheesh.
I find a post indicating agreement with such sentiments a BIT disturbing, given the context of a forum that encourages differences.

Which post are you talking about as I don't see any post agreeing.

Quote from: DennisGotta agree with you there Jan. It's a pretty shallow analysis that deems Jet magazine to be racist without even looking at incarceration rates for black men, corporate American hiring patterns, and the like.

And where do you see an analysis?  If the author intended this as analysis he did a very poor job  :)  I must be having a blond moment, as I can't remember why it was posted other than for "Light reading, my brain fails me at this point as this was posted back in July 2005. :)

Steph

Steph

"Nope not all all Steph, It's someone elses words, I agree in priciple with nearly every word, I haven't had it in me to shoot anyone for some years now and probably couldn't unless no other way, and your just plain to nice to deserve it anyway.

I think I remember that one, I always liked Rooney.  He made sense I could understand and made me laugh doing it.

Terri"

???
yes I would have considered it somewhat lite..

but.. u know

Quote from: Stephanie Craxford on July 29, 2005, 09:04:44 AM
I didn't know wether to post this under Politics, Hate, Humor so I posted it here.

just not that funny to me, maybe it's the neighborhood I come from I dunno

Hi jan
You know, you mentioned in another post that you can see the divine in music - I think so too :)
From your posts I know that you are passionate,  and while some have irritated me greatly - that was down to me and stuff that was going on in my life rather than anything in what you were saying; stances you were taking; and how you were saying it.  I believe that what you say is worth considering and I enjoy reading your posts.
Having said that, I will also say that I have a tremendous respect for Terri Gene, and what she stands for.  I think you are misrepresenting her and are unfair to her. 
I have looked at what was said  in that Andy Rooney spoof - and while they are framed in a sort of loud "in your face" manner.  Basically I agree with them.  In your neighbourhood they are not funny, but what exactly is it you find so offensive?  People in America and Australia (my perspective) are seeming to find the values and things they hold important under strident attack.
I will be happy to debate issues with you, point by point if you like - and I tell ya I will do it in a friendly and civilized way AND I would be prepared to concede points (I know I am fallible and still have attitudes that I am aware are unhelpful :(    )
I just ask you as a citizen of a democratic nation - to look at each point & consider why they seem to strike a chord in the feelings of many people

Rana

Hi Rana

(I am not dissing anyone. I question agreement with such views (BTW you will see that Mr Rooney has strenuously disavowed ANY similarity to his own views on these topics, and would seriously sue if he could find the source.) in a forum that is set up to be a space where differences from the 'norm' can be explored.

Quote from: Rana on June 07, 2006, 08:58:38 AM
I will also say that I have a tremendous respect for Terri Gene, and what she stands for.  I think you are misrepresenting her and are unfair to her. 

and HOW is directly quoting someone a misrepresentation in any way? That is illogical. At least. I indicated that an agreement with certain sentiments particularly in the context here was a bit disturbing to me.)

Here's what it is:
The White Man is on a severe defensive stance. (The world is changing. The world needs to change.) Such things as Jet magazine exist to specifically empower a people (and make a buck off their success, you betcha) that has been SEVERELY disempowered in the past, and will bear the scars of, hello? slavery. for a long long long long time to come.
(Just as I will bear the scars of having lived in a mixture of sexualities and identities for a little while to come, as well.)
Have you personally ever been denied status or privelege due to being a white person? DIDN'T THINK SO.
We do not allow persons to come here and state their anti-attitude and diss us here at this forum, rule #9. Out of the same impulse to 'find our own peeps' and be comfortable among.
Now are we really TRULY discriminatory creatures here at Susan's? Compared to slaveowners.

another EG: PBS has been dramatically enfiltrated by 'right-thinking' individuals. That are taking steps to change the whole approach there. (need to create, you know, some balance.)
The powers that be in this society are generally, you know, the POWERS THAT BE.
The press, the media, et al, sometimes NEEDS to take a non-advocacy stance, or even? Dare I say it? an advocational stance FOR THE OTHER SIDE. That addresses an IMBALANCE.

People in US and OZ should embrace the fact that certain values are under attack.
I don't really know the specifics on the founding of Australia, but this country?
Founded by a revolution. VALUES UNDER ATTACK. Violent attack.

Quote from: Rana on June 07, 2006, 08:58:38 AM

I just ask you as a citizen of a democratic nation - to look at each point & consider why they seem to strike a chord in the feelings of many people

Rana

I have looked at it Rana.
FEAR AND LOATHING.
Tends to strike a chord.
In many people?
What kinds of people?
What kinds of people are "struck by":

"I believe that if you are selling me a milkshake, a pack of cigarettes,
a newspaper or a hotel room, you must do it in English! As a matter of
fact, if you want to be an American citizen, you should have to speak
English!

Because that is so much in tune with their world view?
(is this one of the "values Americans and Australians find so important" that's under attack? Speaking proper English? Well in OZ YMMV , but that's a joke really innit?)

It is admittedly amusing in a coarse way I'll grant you that.
BUT IT INDICATES INTOLERANCE OF DIFFERENCES. Is Australia a melting pot, or no?
USA is. That is it's greatest strength in my opinion.

Now I may have an attitude that comes from being disenfranchised. I'll own that.
You may have an attitude that stems from the opposite.



Posted at: June 07, 2006, 07:42:26 AM

---

What I find 'so' offensive is not that these type of remarks are in your face at all. They are far more subtle than you can see, I fear.
The unreasonable just next to eminently reasonable "EG: girls belong in the Girl Scouts." ":70% = 70%"
The use of humour to virally infect. The misuse of the rhythm and tone of Mr Rooney, who btw I find generally quite amusing.
I am so not politically correct. Anyone that has read me knows that.
If you go around calling yourself a European-Australian, and someone finds that a point to take issue with, it's absurd, right*?
You would be embracing your Germanic or whatever heritage.
here's some pertinent history:
African Americans were known almost strictly as ->-bleeped-<-s for a long time, and that's not gone away.
(in the 1960's during the key years of the Civil Rights struggle they were generally called Negroes. President Johnson never got a handle on that sound, it was NIG-ras. Lenny Bruce had a funny routine on it. And the whole thing is pretty funny. :))
They were sold into slavery by other Africans over the centuries to Euro-centric places like the burgeoning United States.
Note that their heritage is, ahem, African. They are confounding by hyphenating with "American", embracing both?
Problematic to express? State your objections.
FEAR AND LOATHING

(* this is precisely what I am indicating by the subtle use of humor, it is absurd, so it's funny. BUT: the person is stating that the whole "African-American" (he prefers ->-bleeped-<-, I can tell you that) thing pisses him off.)



Posted at: June 07, 2006, 08:10:27 AM

---

And finally I would have just considered it pretty much lite reading but for the fact I saw that a person here with a reputation here of: let's see 56, in agreement in principle with nearly every word.

AND, as you agree with her agreement, or whatever;
and I pointed out (in response to the original poster, Stephanie who had not noticed any agreement with the post), here it is, this person agrees with this stuff,
HOW DID I DISPESPECT? by expressing my view on it?
By disagreeing?
It isn't out of line. It simply is not.

Hi jan,
Thank you for your reply, it is well put - and raises several issues where  I have a different viewpoint to you but in fairness I  cannot dash of some superficial response, I must give them the  same consideration that you have in your post.  And, basically what is our difference - we both believe in justice. So I will reply in a couple of days hey :)

Firstly though, I am glad it was not your intention to disrespect Terri Gene, it just seemed to me from your post that you did.  That is a problem with posts often noticed before, the written word without any other cues verbal or expressive. So, you were taking a stance - there is nothing at all wrong in that, everyone is entitled to.

The issue that you are most passionate about is attitudes to African Americans, and I guess, since you mentioned it I should state my background and attitudes because yes they do colour my take on things even now :(
Well my heritage is mainly Great British - Irish, English, Scottish, Chinese - in that order.  And I have never suffered any form of discrimination on account of my racial make up.
When I hear about Black Americans going on about slavery even now - the feeling wants to rise "for Gods sake get over it"  yet if I can feel anger rise up in me when I read on how the Irish were treated in their rebellion, the stinking unfairness of the Enclosure Acts on the lives of ordinary British people, the sheer hypocrisy of British society - no wonder my ancestors voted with their feet.  All this must fade into insignificance beside the history of anyone whose forebears were slaves, taken treated as objects by some slaveholding bastards.

As far as the necessity of speaking English to be a good citizen.  Jan, this comes back to feelings and emotions, let me tell you a story in my life.
Some years ago I caught a train from the country to Sydney - having little idea about the lay out of the big city I caught a wrong connecting link, got lost and ended up in Cabramatta, geting off the train I looked around for someone I could ask directions from.  On that crowded station I saw every race and colour but white, heard the babble of every language but English and rising up in my heart was the feeling THIS IS WRONG, the only other white face I saw happened to belong to a German who gave me the instructions in broken English how to find my way back.  Now logic or reason does not enter into this, those black & brown faces they could well belong to people who blessed the day they came to Australia & would give their lives to support their adopted country, that maybe could not speak English but were busting a gut to learn it.  I know all this may be true but it just as well may not - and the wrongness comes back to me even now.  I know this says heaps about my own make up and prejudices but feelings are so very powerful - you cannot leglislate them away wag fingers scold or mock - it just entrenches them making the holder more determined to keep them.  They may only be given up by personal growth & awareness.
Anyway I have not even started yet seems I am writing a book :(   my basic premise is that there should be ONE law for everyone - no special favours.  When I can think of a way to put it as well as you have your point of view I will get back to you

Rana

Quote from: Rana on June 08, 2006, 08:50:39 AM
The issue that you are most passionate about is attitudes to African Americans, and I guess, since you mentioned it I should state my background and attitudes because yes they do colour my take on things even now :(
Well my heritage is mainly Great British - Irish, English, Scottish, Chinese - in that order.  And I have never suffered any form of discrimination on account of my racial make up.

As far as the necessity of speaking English to be a good citizen.  Jan, this comes back to feelings and emotions, let me tell you a story in my life.
Some years ago I caught a train from the country to Sydney - having little idea about the lay out of the big city I caught a wrong connecting link, got lost and ended up in Cabramatta, geting off the train I looked around for someone I could ask directions from.  On that crowded station I saw every race and colour but white, heard the babble of every language but English and rising up in my heart was the feeling THIS IS WRONG, the only other white face I saw happened to belong to a German who gave me the instructions in broken English how to find my way back.  Now logic or reason does not enter into this, those black & brown faces they could well belong to people who blessed the day they came to Australia & would give their lives to support their adopted country, that maybe could not speak English but were busting a gut to learn it.  I know all this may be true but it just as well may not - and the wrongness comes back to me even now.  I know this says heaps about my own make up and prejudices but feelings are so very powerful - you cannot leglislate them away wag fingers scold or mock - it just entrenches them making the holder more determined to keep them.  They may only be given up by personal growth & awareness.

Rana

Of course I agree w. especially the last statement. Or, you need to legislate that out of your own self. It isn't right.
[And excuse me I'll mock the mockers any time. Not wag a finger AT ALL. It's ridiculous, I might just call it.]
It just as well may be true that some of the ->-bleeped-<-s and wogs are  not sincere about assimilation, about adopting the values of this kind of citizenship. (Y'all will have to forgive my use of the vernacular. Where I come from I hear it every day. Chill.)
A great deal of white folks that claim to be for the values that make America what it is are flat-out lying if you ask me. What's the difference? Some are darker skinned-did, they don't get cut a break in your world view.
People that own the world are scared to death of losing a little part of it.
"It's not the world I thought I knew", you hear it all the time in this context.
That is a world where for some reason, and I honestly donno what it is, darker-hued persons have been put in positions of servitude. This isn't a white/black thing, it's a high yaller/brown thing. The Northern Italians consider the Southern ones, particuarly the Sicilians, ->-bleeped-<-s. That is the word used. Somalians consider South Asians, Indonesians for example as maids, domestics is the word nowadays. That is a very subtle shading of racism if you ask me.
some of this has to change, and that change has begun in many place.
ONE of those is the United States of America.
People got bloody fed up with this nonsense. Started speaking out JUST LIKE I AM DOING HERE.
Chynna here shared with me her love of a song I had almost forgot about.
it has a SUPREMELY spritual quality, Rana.
Sam Cooke, Change Gonna Come.

Go find it, hear it. Expresses it better than I ever could.



Posted at: June 08, 2006, 07:10:55 AM

---

Quote from: Rana on June 08, 2006, 08:50:39 AM

I saw every race and colour but white, heard the babble of every language but English and rising up in my heart was the feeling THIS IS WRONG ...  and the wrongness comes back to me even now. 
Rana

>what wrongness. In whom.
you were in CABRAMATTA.
You don't fricken own CABRAMATTA.
You were the one with the language problem
Do you get this?
It's really basic -
You are not entitled to that feeling of special privelege.
Not in Cabramatta.

Quote from: Rana on June 08, 2006, 08:50:39 AM

:(   my basic premise is that there should be ONE law for everyone - no special favours.

do you not see the discordance of the two impulses?

I'll be explicit. "No special favors for the coloreds."


Posted at: June 08, 2006, 07:22:28 AM

---

There are going to be more and more Cabramattas in this world, Rana.
That's just how it goes. It's not a pretty picture is it? Look at a history of subjugation of peoples. Natural Law -Karma- tends to indicate some payback, some unpleasantness down the road. Some sorting out. Some squalor where it's inconvenient for an inexperienced traveler, even in her "own land"; only: how is it your own land? Are you indigenous to the region? Your ancestors worked that land for centuries? Or are you simply entitled to it cause you're a paleface.

FEAR AND LOATHING
Hitler thought "his people" were entitled to the whole enchilada. Now we have Israel to deal with. Great.
The reaction - see: physics, equal and opposite - hasn't even begun to approach critical mass.
It's not the world some folx thought they knew. Good damn thing in some ways.

Thank you for holding some support for me Rana, I appreciate it, but I see little to argue about or consider.  Jan is simply looking to have every word verified and 100% supported before she will agree with it.  I can't really remember the mood of that day, almost a year ago, and I was simply making a point about not shooting the poster as posted by Steph, whom I have liked and admired from the day she made her first post here.

As to my statements of liking the opinions expressed, yes, I do agree with them for they are my opinions also.  It's a simple matter of respect to and from.  It's what is called an opinion, and I have a lot of them, and an opinion of a particular matter or word has nothing much to do with another opinion or word, it's all just a matter of talk and expression.

Calm down a little Jan, you take your own self far to seriously.  Not everything has to have serious justification in order to be said. As to the neighborhood you are from Jan, and how serious it was, is and whatnot, come live in mine and laugh it off.  LIfe is always a problem and two people hardly every completely agree, so I just smile when the fuse is short and if you can't pull it out, prepare for the bang.

For real, there are much more recent events and situations to talk about then a year old spoof that held no interest to much of anybody at the time.

Relax and see to the business at hand

Terri

it's not about me terri gene
you know almost certainly nothing about me and have read me VERY selectively at best if at all if that's how it looks to you.

I take some things seriously.

I don't even think you have read this thread.
You seem to have an attitude and you brought it to this thing.

Andy Rooney considers the thoughts perpetuated in his name as racism, straight up and is pissed about it.

go check it out! the link is at this thread.


I'm having a conversation with Rana here. She basically asked me to do that.
I didn't approach her on it, maybe she's working through her race card deal.

it's not as shallow as all this personal stuff.

I have not taken issue in any form on expressing opinions. I have a very definite opinion of my own.

Quote from: Terri Gene on June 08, 2006, 11:09:14 AM

but I see little to argue about or consider.

that speaks VOLUMES doesn't it. Your mind is made up. Your prejudices are stone. Rana here had some questions, and we were having a conversation, which you just interrupted to tell me I''m full of it (in a very similar way to the fake Rooney thing, subtle).
just lite stuff. friendly old school just buds stuff. I don't think so.

Quote from: Terri Gene on June 08, 2006, 11:09:14 AM
  Jan is simply looking to have every word verified and 100% supported before she will agree with it. .


Relax and see to the business at hand

Terri

what business at hand? you're defining that for me as well?

You assert that I require 100% verification before I agree with anything, while you BLANKLY state "NOTHING TO CONSIDER."

I am WAS (now I'm on a soapbox, great) in a conversation here. I am not going to agree with racism no matter who verifies or supports it.
I give and take in a conversation when the person I'm conversing with has something to say.
What is it youre saying?
"thank you for supporting my prejudices. I like that. Jan is full of sh*t isn't she."


thankx for sharing - dudette
pretty macho stuff u bet


Posted at: June 08, 2006, 09:42:18 AM

---

one point to reiterate
how is it that there can be tv programs, 'zines, etc, which openly market (operational word is openly*) to people of color while whitey can't do it? (*EG: it is what in IT is called a known issue that Friends was made for white people, it's not inclusive any more than say Moesha was, even less so by token, and that's all good, find your peeps you're comfy with...)
black people have not managed to do as much damage SYSTEMATICALLY to people colored differently than.
Wouldna been slavery had not some africans helped out some gathering 'em up, shipping 'em out, but
Institutionalized slavery. Hitler's Third Reich and the attendant propaganda. (just for starters ok) Actually look at some of the latter, purity of race, master race in fact... no, having "Cloud Magazine" is a little problematic after that.
jet has its function, in this society, as currently configured; that alone bugs the hell out of some people, this thread is illustrating this fact.

Who were your superheroes in cartoons growing up?
Mighty Mouse was a fave of mine.

I'll admit to being a Yankee's fan, that's somewhat imperious...

UnderDog was hella cool...

Your right Jan, haven't done much reading of this thread, but then was in there at the time it was written and nothing was said until now about it.  I got no quarrel with you, please do not start one, If I want to argue about something I'll do it with me mex and negro neighbors.

As to all that gets said around here, I pay attention to what I want and ignore what doesent damage me or my own, just seems good sense to me, right now am busy with a camera thats smarter then I am.

Terri

yeah chica I understand
peace :angel:


Posted at: June 08, 2006, 01:38:40 PM

---

some may think that I am completely off-the-hook with this stance
reacting to such light reading with this preposterous essay/rant/ u name it

if that is accurate, explain away Mr Andy Rooney's views on the "spoof/parody"

"About a year ago, I became aware of a more serious theft of my name and it is so hurtful to my reputation that it calls for legal action against the thief. Hundreds of people have written asking if I really wrote the 20 detestable remarks made under my name that have had such wide circulation on the Internet.

Some of the remarks, which I will not repeat here, are viciously racist and the spirit of the whole thing is nasty, mean and totally inconsistent with my philosophy of life. It is apparent that the list of comments has been read by hundreds of thousands of Americans, many of whom must believe that it accurately represents opinions of mine that I don't dare express in my column or on television. It is seriously damaging to my reputation."

Based on the sudden upsurge in comments to this old topic, and the obvious pain and somewhat "sharp" decisions this has recently caused I'm going to delete this topic.  It serves no purpose but to raise the hackles of members, and based on the replies I feel it is for the best.  If there is strong opposition to this I will gladly restore it.

Steph

Steph can you not just lock it if you are that worried? btw I am apologizing to TG about being too challenging, I had not known some facts that have come to light in her situation.
anti-racism isss verboten?


Posted at: June 08, 2006, 05:56:24 PM

---

how about just deleting the exchange between Terri Gene and I? That is what's bothering you isn't it Steph.
I understand loyalty, I do.

I'll leave it as it is for now.

Steph

Actually I will leave the topic.  jan what you say is interesting, its one point of view and I have another yet thats what makes democracy interesting hey :)  And I think it does me good to be challanged - it does make me think about things.   Do you know I am undertaking a course on Theology, basically because of a thread Terri Ann started yonks back - I felt if I am going to spout on about stuff, I should have an idea about what I am spouting on about.
But I cannot just leave without saying somthing,  lol you and my feeling about special priveledge in Cabramatta :)   Now in my post  did say it was a feeling that I had and that it was distinct from thought and logic.
I believe in listening to feelings, they are important - I had a strong feeling about a place and a situation, and thinking my feelings through I understand what bothered me, far better than you do jan.  Did I not say in my post that hectoring people about their atitudes only makes them hold those attitudes more tightly,  and here you are wagging your finger at me.  I am proud to be Australian and that means proud of the values that are enshrined in being Australian - justice fairness equity AND a sense of humour.  I was just worried that the Australia I love & cherish may not have been in existence at that station in Cabramatta, and it scared me a bit.   I would LOATH & DETEST a world full of places like that.

Anyway I come to Susans as a place of relief and refuge,  so will put my soapbox away & look for pleasent stuff - probably concerning music :)    jan you can be as challenging as you like, but I prefer you happy

Love
Rana