Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi, welcome to my first topic. 

I'm looking for a bit of reassurance or advice here.  I have only identified as trans for the last 6 months but I have felt like a gay guy in a girl's body since I was about 18.  Thing is through childhood I wasn't unhappy as a girl.  I didn't really think about it too much and just got on with life, I was a very imaginative child and life was a great big game anyway.   I never liked dolls or wanted children and found pregnancy terrifying, but thats the only real sign I can think of.  Sure I pretended to be a guy, but I also pretended to be animals and even inanimate objects.  Puberty was fine, I accepted it.  I have always been interested in men, except for a phase of being "lesbian" because I tried to take on a more male appearance.  This was a result of a failed "straight" sexual relationship.  So I identified as lesbian for 3 years but never actually approached women (and still liked the idea of two men best).  Then I got fed up of the single life, girl-ed up massively and found a wonderful guy.  But I wasn't comfortable and manned up again.  It was horrible because through the whole thing I started to feel awful about the situation I had put myself in and slowly became unattractive to him as a straight male.   :(  So after that ended I started exploring sex with bisexual men but still felt awful about being seen as female.  So I "diagnosed myself" as a transperson. 

Thing is, since I have only felt like this in late teens and only experienced gender dysphoria these last 6 months I wonder if I am not trans, just crazy.  I have never been able to love myself, I have always had a block telling me I'm too ugly, too geeky, too whatever... for anyone to love me.  Now if I went the whole way with transition I know it is going to be even harder to find someone.  I'm terrified of being alone forever, but also want to be alone to escape other people! 

So I guess I am asking what you guys think.  And some advice.  I am going to start counselling but my GP sent me away, saying I need to be 100% I want to have a sex change before I can see anyone about this, which I think is unfair and perhaps wrong  :-\  Any UK trans know? 

I think the fact that when puberty hit and you explored your sexuality a bit more sounds like a good trigger to me.

Not all TG persons were upset in their childhood or even knew. I think I felt better being in my childhood androgynous body and I could have dealt with it that way... but then puberty hits and it all goes to hell.

There may be a cookie cutter type, but it's definitely not the one and only way of knowing.

I would consider finding another GP - mine sent me to a therapist (is referring me) as soon as i told her. At the very least yours should have sent you to a general therapist (even if not a specialist who can prescribe T and write notes for legal stuff.) That's what a therapist is there for - to HELP you figure out what you want. Right?

Or you could call around and see if any are available without needing a referral?

I've only identified as trans in the past few months myself. I was a total girly girl as a toddler and up until around fifth grade or so when i started wearing neutral clothes. I hung out with guys, was mistaken as a guy a lot (which i loved), and loved "pretending" to be one (like you, i had quite the imagination - at six my babysitter scared my mom by joking "maybe she'll grow up to be a dog!" lmao.)

Didn't start shaving until i hit high school and got teased about it. Ever since i can remember, my day dreams and dreams feature me as a guy. So now i've done what i can to present as male without any T or surgery (clothes, hair, etc) and it just feels right to me.  That's how i know i'm making the right decision, though i'm still going to therapy for help with transitioning (namely the notes and my parents.)

A therapist would definitely help you out a lot. Keep trying? Good luck!

wow  :o

we are exactly the same, give or take a few things.

I was 18 when I "diagnosed" myself as transgendered, and it has been, around 6 months for me too, I think at least.

I also like men, but in high school I identified as a lesbian, so I could be 'butch', but the truth was I didn't like women at all.  I liked men, but I didn't want to be "the woman" in the relationship.  I wanted to be with a girl, so i could be charming, and masculine, and take her breath away... but I didn't like women.

As a kid, I was very similar to you, I wasn't unhappy being a girl, I liked to dress up, I wore dresses to high school dances, when i was younger I was such a tomboy, climbing trees and stuff.  I would wear my brothers hand me downs, and people always asked me if I was a boy r a girl, I was offended by that at the time.

I always wanted to go by my middle name in school, O'Neil, which is rather masculine.

and most of my halloween costumes were boy characters, I didn't wanna be in some lame girl costume, you know how sometimes they have girl versions of costumes, like you can be peter pan, or you can be 'cute girly peter pan' well, I thought that was stupid, why be second best when you could be.. THE peter pan.

well I am rambling now, I just wanted to let you know how similar we seem based on what you posted.  We should talk, add me on facebook if you have one, or message me.

I don't think you're crazy at all. I'm 29 and I've only been extremely dysphoric about my body for the past year and a half. Before that, I felt something was just not "right" (a sort of vague disconnection with my body), but I was never able to define exactly what that was until I came across an FTM who is gay, like me. That explained like sooooo many things to me, the confusion, discomfort with sex, always pretending to be someone else (generally a male character) trapped in my female body. It does make it that much harder for other people to understand because they saw me as being comfortable being a female for most my life; unfortunately, I'm just not open about my feelings. I don't walk around saying "oh, I just don't feel right, but I don't know why" or—"hey, guess what? I'm pretending to be my brother today!" I guess I never saw any point in doing that.

Just wanted to share my thoughts on how I think its perfectly normal to not have known all your life that you're trans. Sometimes, it's just difficult to figure out. (Like in my case I was "gifted" with a body that others have said was attractive, and since I like boys—it was great to get that kind of attention from them! I also find girls to be pretty, so since I was a pretty girl, I dressed up in girls clothing and did that make-up stuff and all that. Took birth-control at 17 which I swear muted my more "masculine" feelings, 'cause ever since I've stopped it a year and a half ago, I really feel like a much different person).

I don't think you're crazy.

Some of us were comfortable as children with no real gender expression/identity. I don't think that really makes you "less transsexual" or anything like that.

All the advice I can offer is to examine yourself and your feelings. How do you feel about growing into an old woman? And old man? Are you okay with being "the woman" in a relationship with a man?

Quote from: Basiliximab on December 31, 2009, 04:49:11 PM

Just wanted to share my thoughts on how I think its perfectly normal to not have known all your life that you're trans. Sometimes, it's just difficult to figure out. (Like in my case I was "gifted" with a body that others have said was attractive, and since I like boys—it was great to get that kind of attention from them! I also find girls to be pretty, so since I was a pretty girl, I dressed up in girls clothing and did that make-up stuff and all that. Took birth-control at 17 which I swear muted my more "masculine" feelings, 'cause ever since I've stopped it a year and a half ago, I really feel like a much different person).

This is true for me too.  Stopping birth control seemed to bring a lot of feelings back.  I had no idea hormones had such strong influence on you!  I too could be a very pretty girl if I wanted to be, and after bullies made me feel ugly for most of my teenage years discovering this was "great" ...except it wasn't.  It was only great so long as I was single.  Seemed the idea was a lot better than the reality for me.  I had the 'perfect' relationship and I really should have been happy.  It totally cut me up that I wasn't   :(

Quote from: SilverFang on December 31, 2009, 05:00:19 PM
I don't think you're crazy.

Some of us were comfortable as children with no real gender expression/identity. I don't think that really makes you "less transsexual" or anything like that.

All the advice I can offer is to examine yourself and your feelings. How do you feel about growing into an old woman? And old man? Are you okay with being "the woman" in a relationship with a man?

Yeah, whenever I examine my feelings like that I know I am trans.  Because I'm not comfortable growing old as a woman and I can't be in a relationship as the woman.  Except perhaps with girls, but I don't fancy women   :(   

I think the reason I doubt myself so much on this is because I'm looking for an excuse not to face it.  I am terrified that this is going to ruin my chances at life, I'm in the process of studying for a PhD.  I wonder whether having a career is more important than being comfortable or having a chance at a personal life.  Then I feel bad for feeling that I have to choose! 

I can definitely relate to Alessandro, Elijah, Basil's experiences. And there does seem to be a kind of a pattern with FtMs that like men..
Going from society's "straight female" to something that is often seen as double taboo.. (Not just transsexual, but also homosexual.) has a few different issues from FtMs that previously always identified as queer in some way, at least as far as their sexuality was concerned.

For whatever reason, gay men are often more openly feminine than straight men. Gay women are often more openly masculine than straight women.

When feeling like a gay guy in a woman's body, it seems to be a lot less clear cut than for the FtMs that feel like a straight guys in female bodies. The feminine/masculine line gets very blurry..

Personally, I hate things which are generally attributed as being feminine. But I'm also not particularly keen on overly masculine things either. There are women who are perfectly comfortable identifying as women who enjoy football and tools and motorbikes, and stuff. There are also a lot of men who don't like those things. There are probably also a lot of women who act more masculine than I do, and there are men who act more feminine.

I know that when I was a kid my greatest wish was to be a boy, but I've also thought about whether that could have a lot to do with being young and having a rather nieve idea of gender and what it means to be male or female. I saw boys being treated like boys and girls being treated like girls. Just because I wanted to look like and be treated like the boys, that does not necessarily mean I am strictly male-minded.

I can see how social conditioning when I was young could have played a part in my gender confused feelings. Like.. playing boys stuff may have simply been more fun (what sane child prefers to play with a doll, seriously?). I wouldn't have this big scar down my leg if I had been able to wear trousers to school (skirts aren't designed for tumbling down stone steps in). Putting on make up/bras/high heels and getting 'pretty' seemed like unrewarding effort, and uncomfortable (though I never tried it..)
It goes on. But they are kinda logical associations for a kid to make, especially for a kid who feels like they're able to explore these things.

These days, when a guy gives me preferencial treatment just because I'm a girl.. it makes me feel like a cheat and an arsehole. That may not mean I must actually be a guy. It's just me actually thinking about how daft society's gender rules are.

The bitchyness of girls and women always irritated me. But at the same time I don't think I would enjoy male competition either.

I guess I'm not very impressed with humans in general, but I don't think that's come from any terrible life experiences, because I can't claim to have had a bad life by most standards (I understand that pretty much everyone is bullied in school for one thing or another.) Like nearly everyone here, most likely.. I want to be accepted for just being 'me', but me is not exactly male and not exactly female, I definitely lean towards male identified, and wish to be more masculine or androgynous in appearance.

What that means for deciding whether/how/when to transition is the hard part.

I do not want to sabotage my chances at successfully continuing my career, nor do I enjoy the thought of being in a relationship as the 'woman', or growing old as a woman, or being a mother, etc. But, there's a lot of diverse people out there who may be open to slightly more 'unique' friends and relationships. It is possible we could find partners that accept us as just 'us', not as female, despite our bodies. Though.. I think it would still wierd me out. It's also frustrating that I do want a penis but can plausibly not really have one, and I'd think feeling will probably get worse with transition?


Perhaps this is kinda a gay FtM thing (I mean not wanting so much to conform to a binary gender, not the penis thing! :D), perhaps it is totally different. I don't know.. p:


Anyway this post got very rambly! Finally I just wanted to mention about a girl I know who identifies strictly as a lesbian. She doesn't like men. She is in a relationship with a straight male. There are obviously issues with their relationship, but they love each other and are happy with each other. They've been together for a long time and both of them can see them staying together for a lot longer. People are strange and a lot more open than we may expect. (:

Thanks for the reply Banf.  Yeah I was thinking about the double taboo thing.  It is harder for people to understand, why would a "straight girl" want to become a gay gay.  There is no doubt at all that that is what I want.

I actually am not very "gay" though.  I really like guy stuff.  I love football and cars, gaming, weightlifting, all that stereotypically guy stuff.  At the same time I like fashion and musicals so...*shrug*

I hate any "girl" treatment, it just redoubles my dysphoria.  I used to accept it but find it a bit condescending.  Now I find it downright upsetting even if it is meant to be kind. 

I have tried to be with a man sexually who saw me as male.  But I find it difficult no matter how good my imagination is.  Do you really think it could ruin the chances of a decent career?  I am doing a PhD and I still want that to mean something afterwards.  But if it doesn't, I suppose I will just move to London and find something else to do.  I think being myself is more important than jobs, as long as family and friends stick by. 

I really liked your story Banf about the lesbian but I don't know if that's for me, looking down and seeing boobs for the rest of my life.  Being with a man as a woman, physically weaker than a man and so physiologically different.  I dunno, I just have never liked the differences between us and if I could minimise those it would be better.  I also know a straight girl who is in love with a woman and is happy about it.  But for me, I want to be with a man as a man.  Or nothing at all. 

Hmm, well I've not had any experiences with being with a partner who sees me as male, so perhaps it's only wishful thinking that it may help. :D

I'm definitely not a stereotypical gay guy either (ignoring the obvious- the body), in fact I'm not even convinced I like men that much (I simply seem to generally find them more attractive than women) I work in a male-dominated industry, and I don't like fashion and musicals. :p But I don't think any of that actually has much to do with somebody's gender or sexuality, really.. They're just interests and quirks that are attributed to a person. :3

Unfortunately, due to having only recently realised this (it seems so damn obvious now!) and having been so hung up about portraying myself as a gender-normal girl for so many years.. I find it easy to dismiss things that I don't like, but very hard to acknowledge and admit things that I DO enjoy. I rarely expressed my opinions on things and never took up most of the interests and hobbies that I would have liked to for fear of being judged. I got heavily into art and video games, and that's how my career came about.


And naw, I didn't mean that it would necessarily ruin anybody's chances at a successful career. (: Just that for me at the moment, transitioning while new to my first job out of uni, one that I feel hugely lucky to have been offered.. (in my chosen field, 10 minutes walk from my home, with great hours - at a really awesome studio in general) would probably shake things up in ways that I can't really predict. I am also supporting my bankrupt father at the moment, while living with him and my brother and losing my job would likely put all of us out of a home..! I would hope that everything would be fine, but who knows.

At the moment I'm of the opinion that I want to transition at some point. I can't see myself being happy like this, but I also think it would be daft for me to rush it. I need to ease the changes into my life gently. As much as I'd love it, suddenly sprouting [more] facial hair and a male voice would most likely distrupt what happiness and comfort I do have with my friends/family/job if they aren't ready for that. :]

But I also want to explore non-medical options for trying to become more comfortable in my gender and body as well/first. I want to determine whether I can learn to live happily while expressing my gender as masculine female/andro/male or whatever!

Congrats on the job, it does sound great.  I would worry about upsetting a chance like that too. 

I'm pretty convinced I like men.  A few sexual encounters with women did absolutely nothing for me.  I find women attractive but not sexually   :-\

I agree that this should be done gently but I am getting exhausted with it and feel very alone.  I don't know if transitioning would change that or make it worse.  Maybe I am just fixating on my body and how people see me too much.  What are these non medical options you talk about?  I dress as a man and bind but not sure I want to bind for the rest of my life! 

Finally Banf, have you heard of this:  http://www.ftmlondon.org.uk/index.htm  (http://www.ftmlondon.org.uk/index.htm)  They do meetings in London, the next one is 9th Jan.  I'm going to give it a shot and head up.  I don't know where you live in the UK but it might be worth a try. 

nah, not crazy... unless I'm crazy too.  Like Elijah said, your story sounds pretty similar to mine. I was straight and super feminine in high school. I hated dresses, but I did wear make up and kept my hair long and died blond.  I tried to date boys, and had several boyfriends, but ended up in a non-sexual best freinds relationship with all of them. I don't doubt that I was actually attracted to them, and it wasn't only that I wanted to be them, but that being the girl in the relationship wasn't right. It was easier to be "one of the guys" if I wasn't dating the guys.

When I was 20, I lost my virginity as female, with a guy, and had a bit of a mental breakdown over it that lasted for months. I knew him well, and had for years, and he was very respectful, so it should have been a positive experience, but it wasn't for some reason.  I thought I was a lesbian, and convinced myself that I was totally turned off by men physically.

For about 3 years I tried dating women. I identified as a butch lesbian, but then ended up in a relationship with a bi-sexual cis guy. It was the first time I felt I could be comfortable with my self, and sexuality while in a relationship.  He didn't care that I mostly took on a dominant masculine role, and I didn't mind that he would often point out guys he found attractive. 

I started Identifying as queer, and then genderqueer/ androgyne.  I've dated lesbians, straight males, queer identified males, and most recently an MtF trans woman. 

It's been a long 5 year process that has led me to identifying as trans, and accepting that I feel most comfortable in a masculine role.  It doesn't mean I'm totally opposed to being female, but given the choice Male just feels more right.  And while I'm mostly attracted to masculine people, there are some female identified/ feminine people I find attractive. 

So where does that leave me?  I guess Male identified female bodied queer boy, who's mostly gay? This is way I avoid labels and generally stick with the broad umbrella terms of "queer trans person".

Thanks for your story kyle.  It is very close to mine indeed.  During my "lesbian" phase I really wanted to be lesbian so much.  I still want to be lesbian, but I just am not.  Such a bummer.  I am very jealous of the comfort cisgendered people have.  I used to have a semblence of that comfort, but its pretty much dead in the ground now. 

I have been with bi guys and I love to hear them point out men they like.  But having to hear them talk about girls too is a bummer.  I am so paranoid that they just see me as female that I end up upsetting myself.  I really need to learn to let go! 

I like the identity you have for yourself.  But I have a question: do you feel happy in your role, like do you feel comfortable with yourself?  I have such an aversion to myself and my body but also an aversion to the social pressures of changing that.   :-\   Finding a way to be comfortable in myself with no medical transition at all, in an identity that nobody else can see seems difficult to me.  I wonder if it is achievable for me. 

Quote from: Alessandro on January 02, 2010, 03:49:51 PM
do you feel happy in your role, like do you feel comfortable with yourself?  I have such an aversion to myself and my body but also an aversion to the social pressures of changing that.   :-\   Finding a way to be comfortable in myself with no medical transition at all, in an identity that nobody else can see seems difficult to me.  I wonder if it is achievable for me.

I kinda go back and forth about it, and I've noticed that social settings make a difference.  I recently was with an MtF, and when I was with her and our mutual friends, and everyone knew me and referred to me as male, it was totally fine. I was her boyfriend. It was never an issue that I wasn't on T, or that my voice was still feminine.  Of course we were living in the city, most of our friends were also trans or non-gender conforming, or allies, so it was kinda like we lived in a little queer bubble most of the time.

As far as body issues and feeling comfortable with myself goes, I've had a lot of practice. I have pretty severe scoliosis (skeletal defect of sorts affecting my spine and ribcage) so having something about my body that isn't right and surgery is nothing new. Same goes for dressing to hide unwanted curves.  I've been lucky enough to have a fairly androgenous body type anyway, so being skinny and tall with no hips and a small chest also means less dysphoria and body issues.

Like others keep saying on here, personality and body language make a huge difference. For me, wearing a binder and mens clothes and keeping a "male mentality" makes a huge difference. I know its easier to say than do, but just be confident and act like yourself, and keep reminding yourself that no matter what people say or how many times you get called ma'am, it doesn't change that you are a guy.  good luck with everything

I love football and cars, gaming, weightlifting, all that stereotypically guy stuff.  At the same time I like fashion and musicals

You should be a stagehand (minus the gaming stuff), you can get all that in.  I don't even think they'll hold the PhD against you (for very long).  At least they don't with me.  But I pass as really stupid, so I have that going for me.

I am doing a PhD and I still want that to mean something afterwards.
What it tends to mean afterward is that unless you lie about not getting it (tell them you were in rehab, it's better, trust me) you're pretty much overqualified for just about everything.  It is a very rare and forward thinking boss who is going to hire someone who everyone is going to think is smarter than he is.  So most don't.

On the other hand, I make more money than the people I went through grad school with and taught at the university with.  And three other positive things.  1. People who say there is no such thing as a free lunch have never worked in the entertainment industry.  2. It's the last place where 'harass' is still two words.  3. If you working with Marylin Manson and the Insane Clown Posse, then there is absolutely no way in the universe that you're going to stick out as 'the weird one.'  We have a couple of FtMs in our union here, there good guys.

Thanks for the advice Kyle.  Unfortunately I do have hips and a B-C chest, big eyes and girl lips so its tough to pass but I have managed it now and again.  My chest bothers me, binding is uncomfortable.  I am running a half marathon in March though and hoping to proceed to marathons from there, so this should help get rid of some of the fat making me look more female.  I do need to have more confidence and stop the anxiety attacks when people label me female but I reckon that will come with time.  It annoys me so much feeling this way, having not lived with gender dysphoria my whole life I always end up berating myself for feeling this. 

Tekla - overqualified for everything.  You're so right  :laugh:  I don't know what I will do after.  I would like to go into some form of writing.  All I've ever really wanted to do was be a writer, in both scientific literature and creative.  My perfect job would be writing scientific literature by day (writing only, not research.  So probably mostly rewording, adaptation and editing of other peoples' work) and creative writing by evening, with a foot in both markets.  But that's only a dream.  If it doesn't work out there is being a stage hand   ;D

Quote from: Alessandro on December 31, 2009, 07:32:42 AM
I have only identified as trans for the last 6 months

through childhood I wasn't unhappy as a girl.  I didn't really think about it too much and just got on with life

I never liked dolls or wanted children and found pregnancy terrifying, but thats the only real sign I can think of.

I have never been able to love myself, I have always had a block telling me I'm too ugly, too geeky, too whatever... for anyone to love me.

A little tired, so sorry if my response doesn't flow very well.

I can wholeheartedly agree with the above exerts. I don't think I'm crazy, so I wouldn't consider you crazy either. Everyone grows up... and although I have my doubts from time to time as to my 'authenticity' as a trans person (on bad days) for lacking that shared experience of 'growing up constantly feeling like something was wrong', it doesn't change the fact that something needs to change in order for me to be happy.

Well my experience has informed my opinion that three kinds of people come out of PhD programs.  The 50% who finish ABD (higher in many programs than that), who turn into bitter barestas who teach a 'creative writing' class at the local alternative 'free' university, then there are the two kinds who get out.  There are the ones who in finishing the process were left so shell shocked that they never really get over it (and who's focus is so narrow that pretty much they are the only people in the world who understand it and are going to spend the rest of their life walking around talking to themselves - and really, sit at some major university like Cal Berkeley and watch, and you'll see there are more people talking to themselves then I have down in the Tenderloin where we know those people are crazy).  Then there are the ones who come out, find a way to reengage with reality (takes about two years, more or less) and actually use those skills in some way.  Because the practical skills you can pick up can be wielded pretty effectively in the real world if doing the dissertation didn't completely ruin all your social skills, which it's pretty much designed to do.

Then there is the writing deal.  Any sane rational person who loves language and reading, and words and all of that, will choose to read the ingredients on the side of the package rather than pick up anything done in the academic 'style'.  And, there is no way to get the D thing trough the process and passed if its not written in that terminally dry, humorless, turgid, dense, thick, and sluggish prose that at its best totally lacks anything even resembling personality.

However, with a lot of rehab it is possible to overcome it, and there are a lot of people who went through it, and then rehabbed, and came out the other side being able to really write strongly and clearly - like a dagger to the heart.  Because, in the end, good writing is most often about taking complex ideas and delivering them in such a way that someone who graduated from an American public high school (which is little more than an attendance award) can understand what you are saying.

Most certainly if you finish it right, and on time, no matter what your field of study is, you're going to have a PhD in time management too, and that's a tremendous skill to possess.  I've come to understand that's its almost a real world comic book style super-hero power when it seems that lots of people seem to have a rough time planning out the next five minutes of their life.  And you'll also have the ability to think about more than one thing at a time in a world where most of the people around you are having a hard time thinking of even one thing.

And most of that stuff is truly trans-gender, in that it goes beyond and supercedes gender in a lot of ways - in most ways really.  The Academy (to the degree it even exists anymore) at the highest levels is pretty much gender neutral.  You're often being judged by the words on the page, not what's in your pants.  And "Doctor" is not male or female, it's just Doctor.

And there is a level of confidence too for most.  It's kind of like the old joke where if you get up first thing in the morning and eat a live toad you can be pretty much assured that you're already past the worst thing that's going to happen that day.  Other than being a parent, it's the hardest thing I've ever done, and everything I've done since then seems like child's play in comparison.  If you can make it through that without becoming too neurotic or self-absorbed, or lost - then you can make it through anything.

And, it's not like being crazy is a liability either, at least it will help you understand your major professor. 

Cody - agreed, thanks for your input   :)

Tekla - Haha, I like your sense of humour. And everything you said about the painful drudgery of academic writing is so true.  My supervisor is constantly berating me for putting any flavour whatsoever into my work.  But I doubt I'll ever become proficient at being so dull. 

Also that's something I love about doing a PhD, and whats keeping me going- being Dr.  Entirely gender neutral, just Dr.  I don't think you get much more genderless than Dr. Alex B, which is pleasing...still won't fix what people see in person or hear over the phone though  :(

The best part about being a Doctor is making dinner reservations.  Trust me on that one.