Susan's Place Transgender Resources

From my understanding of HRT effects on m2f only breast tissue development and in some cases sterility are permanent. So question to all of you who were on hormones and than stopped. Do you still have brests? How big are they? Is it possible to have normal looking male chest after you've been on HRT or is surgery the only option, i mean can exercisse help?
Have your brests shrunk and to what extent after you stopped HRT?
I am almoust year and a half on HRT and am considering to quit or et leat pause, for some time. I do have noticeable breasts, but since i am little overweight, i can't quite tell how much of my brests is fat (which can be lost through diet) and how much is milk gland (which can't).

I have foud this example of Brest reconstruction on person who lived as a woman and than went back to male, but i was hoping surgery might be avoidable in my case
http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/transgender_surgery/transgender_ftm_recovery.htm (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/transgender_surgery/transgender_ftm_recovery.htm)

Once your breast tissue grows it's yours to keep FOREVER, fat will come and go giving the appearance of smaller or larger breast, in steps HRT, HRT redistributes fat among other things but boobs are boobs  ;D

Quote from: Cyndigurl45 on January 19, 2010, 10:33:28 AM
Once your breast tissue grows it's yours to keep FOREVER, fat will come and go giving the appearance of smaller or larger breast, in steps HRT, HRT redistributes fat among other things but boobs are boobs  ;D

Well i am most certanly aware of that i was just asking how much and to what extent, and i was hoping for a reply a little bit more in-depth, which doesn't just repeat what i already stated i knew.  ;)

Mari

Can you say what the problem is?

Why have you decided to stop the process and why are you so keen to reverse it?

When I de-transitioned several years ago.  I had small boobs. and by wear larger shirts people thought I had moobs.  I knew that I would one day return and I was not going to do anything to remove them.

I suggest that you invest in larger shirts and give yourself some time.

Quote from: Mari on January 21, 2010, 11:02:30 AM
Well i am most certanly aware of that i was just asking how much and to what extent, and i was hoping for a reply a little bit more in-depth, which doesn't just repeat what i already stated i knew.  ;)

Not to be harsh, but why ask a question you already know the answer too? did you want a chemistry lesson or a biology lesson for an answer??

I can tell you this from personal experience, I started taking HRT and grew enough breast tissue to fill a 36 B cup  bra with some very perky boobs, I stopped for almost a year, I believe the hormone change really messed with my head, I did the "what the hell am I doing" stage, so in 2002 I started taking HRT again simply because I am a woman and I need it, I had gained about 50 lbs and guess what I still fill that same 36 Bcup bra but with saggy boobs, well not the same bra cause I purged all my stuff..... OH my weight fluctuated some 50 fifty pounds, now 50 lbs less :) I'm finally getting a waist and now my boobs are perky again that makes me very happy.

Quote from: Mari on January 19, 2010, 08:41:18 AM
I am almoust year and a half on HRT and am considering to quit or et leat pause, for some time. I do have noticeable breasts, but since i am little overweight, i can't quite tell how much of my brests is fat (which can be lost through diet) and how much is milk gland (which can't).

Well, Mari, as you already know, there will be some residual fat deposition left if you stop HRT.  I never stopped, so I can't really relate how much or how long.

Generally, fat is lost from the last place it was deposited, so if you lose weight, it will probably be lost in your chest first.

Having been on HRT for the amount of time you mentioned, you probably do not have that much tubule development and probably little, if any, mammary gland development.  Realize that it takes a girl several years in puberty to develop to a Tanner stage 3 which is where major mammary gland development starts.  You can consider yourself probably in Tanner stage 1 or 2.

But so much depends on your personal genetics and family history.  Really about the only thing you can do is to see what happens.  If, after a year or so you still have defined breast structure, you may want to see about the surgical option if it really bothers you.

You may also want to speak to your doctor as well.  If you have permanently chemically castrated yourself, which is a real possibility, you may want to seek some testosterone injections to help yourself masculinize.

-Sandy

This thread sends chills down my spine. Quitting hrt after a year, lawd things are finally getting really interesting after a year.

Would you care to share with us why you are doing such a horrible thing? You stated that you were considering quitting hrt, maybe forever or maybe for a while. Whyyyyyy?

Basicly this is like vol.2 of topic i started few weeks ago; and there i basically explained what my problem is:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70058.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,70058.0.html)

Also i wanted to write more there, but i find it really hard to express my feeling and what is currenty going thorugh my head, and english not beeing my mother tongue doesn't help either.  :)

@Cyndigurl45: sorry if i was a bit sarcastic, i was well aware that breast tissue remains, my topic was basicly to what extent, and how small breasts need to be in oreder to have normal male chest, if the therapy is discontinued?
What is the "point of no return" regarding breasts, since pretty much everything else is reversible on its own without surgery.

Currenty my breasts are i think a or perhaps b cup and 38/39 inches around the chest, i mean oarund the ribcage. They do feel large when i hold them but are very far apart, and not very firm, i beleive due to recent weight loss. On the other hand, i can feel a good part of them is fat tissue, but i can also feel the gland which is the firm part below the nipples, i suppose? When i had ultrasound done few months ago as a part of my regular check up, my milk glands were slightly over an inch large. And this is basically all i know about my breasts.  :) Maybe i should look for some similar pics online for comparison.

@Becca: Trust me i never thought i would be thinking about this, or even writing a topic about this, but yeah it happened...  :( I am just trying to figure out what is best for me, and i really like heraing from everybody, i have talked to my friends too over the past few months, since all this "questioning of my decision to transition" came up. I do feel a bit disappointed and very scared of the direction i am going.

I hope to have given a little more insight to my breast issue, which may or may not be an issue depending on the option i choose, and to my overall situation, which you can read more about in the topic i have linked. Thanx  :)

I couldn't do it. I'd put a pistol in my mouth if there were no other way, and the odds are good I am uglier than you are. But it's your body and your life, I hope for the best for you.

QuoteIn fact i fear i will be "->-bleeped-<-", to most people who see me, even to myself

Something came to mind as I was reading your other post. I wonder, if the expense of a double mastectomy could be invested in your face instead. Maybe not the whole 50k package but a new nose or a forehead can go a long way. I dunno and I can't pretend to, you know who you are better than anyone can tell you. Just a thought.

The whole thing seems so tragic  :(

Quote from: Becca on January 21, 2010, 10:33:30 PM
The whole thing seems so tragic  :(

I didn't intend it to be, i was just in my own "pursuit of happiness" and the things just didn't get to go in the direction i was hoping for them to go.
It is not like i won't be ever able to pass, its just that i don't think i will be able to meet my expectations. I will never look like "any other girl", because i am not, and that was what i wanted. Saddest thing is my problems are not so much about face, that could be taken care of with FFS. It's my overall body size, frame and built, and the fact that everything on me, appearence-wise, is so normal and typical for a guy, hands, feet, larynx, chest size, height, frame etc. in fact i could look rather handsome as one. I actually hoped my baby face was a card to play on, regarding transition, and seem to have overlooked my entire body.
I don't know is it fear, disappointment, or in fact a change of heart? Could it be I went to HRT, only to realise it is not for me. Or am i just scared of what future holds, if i decide to continue my transition?
The only thing that is making me uncertain and afraid is the possibility of putting this on a shelve for now, and that it all comes back at me in my 30s, 40s, 50s, when it is still possible but mach harder to do than in your early 20s.
And yet there is so little information and so little input on the web from people who have went back or quitted transition. Only things i was able to find are people who consequently became anti-transition advocates, so there is really no middle point on this.  :(

Mari, no one can answer your question but you in regards to acceptable male breast size, I have seen some guys with some very large breast, bare skinned at the beach without a care in the world, during my WTHAID stage I wore a sports bra to keep my in somewhat of a male pattern chest, going without a shirt was a non option for me compression tank shirts also help alot........

Quote from: Mari on January 22, 2010, 07:28:47 AM
I didn't intend it to be, i was just in my own "pursuit of happiness" and the things just didn't get to go in the direction i was hoping for them to go.
It is not like i won't be ever able to pass, its just that i don't think i will be able to meet my expectations. I will never look like "any other girl", because i am not, and that was what i wanted. Saddest thing is my problems are not so much about face, that could be taken care of with FFS. It's my overall body size, frame and built, and the fact that everything on me, appearence-wise, is so normal and typical for a guy, hands, feet, larynx, chest size, height, frame etc. in fact i could look rather handsome as one. I actually hoped my baby face was a card to play on, regarding transition, and seem to have overlooked my entire body.
I don't know is it fear, disappointment, or in fact a change of heart? Could it be I went to HRT, only to realise it is not for me. Or am i just scared of what future holds, if i decide to continue my transition?
The only thing that is making me uncertain and afraid is the possibility of putting this on a shelve for now, and that it all comes back at me in my 30s, 40s, 50s, when it is still possible but mach harder to do than in your early 20s.
And yet there is so little information and so little input on the web from people who have went back or quitted transition. Only things i was able to find are people who consequently became anti-transition advocates, so there is really no middle point on this.  :(

I'm not sure how to address this Mari, other than to say the maxim for transsexuality is if you can do *ANYTHING* else to avoid transition then do that.

This is the most difficult, arduous, thing a human being can do.  The only way to do it is to jump into the abyss, to gamble everything on possible loss.  If you are not willing to do that then do not transition.

It is never easy to transition.  Being a late transitioner myself, I cannot say if it would have been easier for me to do it when I was in my 20's.  I think not, but I can't say.

But if you truly are transsexual, you will never be able to eliminate the feelings that you are in the wrong gender.  And the feelings will get stronger.  Your ability to withstand them will require much strength.

Many people have stopped, and gone back.  The term purge is appropriate.  Some do become vocal anti-trans.  But most just quietly go back, in order for them to endure their decision, they must cut all ties with their previous associations.  That is why you rarely hear from them.

You mentioned in your other thread that you were seeing an endo.  Are you currently seeing a therapist as well?  You would probably be better off discussing the issues with them so that you can talk about the pros and cons of going back.

I wish you the best of luck, Mari.  Most would not wish this on their worst enemy.  I hope you can come to a decision you can live with.

Feel free to ask any questions or if you like you can PM me as well.

-Sandy

Mari.

Reflecting what Sandy and others have suggested, you will need to talk with your therapist about it.

You should know by now the procedures involved and the results.

I have to say, what I find so tragic about this and similar cases, is why you did it in the first place?

Anyway, best luck.

Quote from: spacial on January 22, 2010, 11:54:01 AM
I have to say, what I find so tragic about this and similar cases, is why you did it in the first place?

Well i went in hoping for the best, but i can't see it comoing so, i am just traing to get off the train before it goes too far away.
And i'd love if someone knew some "additional reading" materials like some web sites or something to hear more form people in same situation. I have mostly found those post- SRS regret cases, where little can be done for person to full detransition into birth sex.

Mari

You have to see a therapist.

They won't force you to do anything but will tell you what you need to know.

Now, go and do it.

@spacial
I am seeing a counselor, but as she said too, only I can decide weather to stop this, or to continue, its all my free will, just like i wasn't forced into it nor was i banned from doing so.

its all my free will, just like i wasn't forced into it nor was i banned from doing so.

That's the hard part ain't it?  It's all your choice at some level.

Heya Mari,

I think I might be the only one to answer with experience.  I have to deal with the reality of being someone who stopped transition but still as breasts.  They show, there isn't much I can do but bind, but I can minimize their presence.  I never wear anything too heavy, like thick sweaters, etc as they just emphasize it more.  I'm fairly thin, so I cannot blame the "moobs" thing.  I wear an undershirt, and normally wear an opened button down shirt in the front.  The way it hangs, it masks the breasts nicely.

Granted my tips are for someone with size A or less or someone who is binding and still has something that shows.  The FTM's might know a thing or two about hiding breasts.

BTW, I know you've gotten a lot of questions from others about why you are considering stopping HRT and transition, but know that if you do, you aren't alone - those of us who stop have our reasons, and we can't let others tell us how we "should" behave if we are transsexual/have GID.

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Post Merge: January 30, 2010, 02:21:46 AM

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Quote from: Mari on January 22, 2010, 07:28:47 AM
And yet there is so little information and so little input on the web from people who have went back or quitted transition. Only things i was able to find are people who consequently became anti-transition advocates, so there is really no middle point on this.  :(

Yes, there is very little information.  Those few people who I am associated with are attempting to "write the book on it" you might say.  As it stands my own research on those who stopped transition has lead to several dead ends.  I seem to find that most of those who stop do so due to reparation therapy normally sponsored by a church.  I cannot say that works nor am a proponent of it.  Others I've found tend to stop because they discovered they felt pushed into it by the TS community.  I've seen a few tragic cases where some who have gone through full SRS only to realize, "holy cow, this isn't what I wanted, what did I do to myself?!"

There is very little info on those who do not transition/stop transition that actually do continue to have struggles with GID (gender dysphoria).  It is difficult.  If all the talk by the community is to be believed, this isn't something that you ever get over, it never goes away, and it only gets stronger.  I know what they are saying has been true for some (though I still feel some use it to justify their own decision to transition by making it "not a choice" but I digress), but at the same time I don't see it as either a death sentence or a "transition-sentence".  It just means we have to know what we are up against and do our best to find helpful coping tools during our most volatile times.

Being only 30 and having lived 8 years since I de-transitioned I can say that it has never gone away, but it isn't as debilitating as it was when I was younger - probably because I can focus on other things and have an excellent support structure in place.  I still have times when it flares up and really kicks my butt, but those times are more like once a month now, not once an hour like it was just before I started transition.

@tekla:
It most certainly is the hardest part.  :(

@interalia:
First of all could you tell me how long have you been on HRT? I am 1,5 years now, and because i am somewhat overweight i do have a certain portion of fat on my breasts just that i can't really tell how much of it is fat and how much is the breast tissue itself.
I will be 22 in a few months so, if you say you are 30 and have stopped transition 8 years ago, it means you were 22 at that time as well.  :)
My primary reason to start questioning and thinking through my initially very firm and strong decision to switch sex, is that i am afraid my expectations won't be merely met if i go through this. I was hoping for something totally different but, as i said, i can't see it coming.
On the other hand, i am not releigious, and therefore do not belong to any church or institution and don't fall under anyone's judgement of morality or something like that. And in my opinion all these ex-gay, ex-trans, ex-whatever movements are just a piece of crap.
I have faced the fact that, no way i will ever pass perfectly, even with all the surgeries and all the money in the world (even if i could afford all that but i surely can't). I will get read more or less often but i will, and the closer someone comes the greater chances he/she will read me. Surely i might pass to a stranger, or shop assistant, or someone who is totally not looking and totally not interested, but if someone was to take a closer look at me, there would be many trans clues,a nd i would get clocked easily.
And that is the fact i am not ok with. The whole purpose of transition for me was to simply become a woman/girl, but it seems i will never be able to get there, and therefore it lost its purpose. Surely i can be a trasngirl and live a life that way, but i don't think that will make me much happier, because that wasn't my initial goal.
The only thing i am afraid is that, like due to "untreated" GID i might go insane, depressed, suicidal, if it really gets so, as some have pointed out.

And another thought, that was allways in my head. What is the point of transitioning if you can't ever, like in a 100 years, pass? If you are going to be looked at as a guy in a dress instead of just a guy? Will that make someone more happy, that thay are not a guy but a guy in a dress, at least in someone's other eyes? I hope my question isn't offensive to anybody, and if it is i apologize in advance. :)

Mari

If I may suggest, practically no-one becomes the woman they dream of, even people born female.

That's the dichotomy of woman. It's the spur that drives women to continually improve and try new things.

Marylin Munroe, who is often held as an ideal, made enormous efforts and changes. She dyed her hair, wore makeup, adapted her personality and spend huge amounts of time doing various exercise to maintain her appearance.

You clearly have an ideal, That's good, all women should have a goal. Have you perhaps lost confidence in your ideal?

You say you are over-weight. Have you been influenced by some health fascists to see being big as something undesierable?

I'm not trying to change or alter your decisions. I'm putting these points for you to consider.

Quote from: Mari on January 30, 2010, 03:27:48 AM
@interalia:
First of all could you tell me how long have you been on HRT? I am 1,5 years now, and because i am somewhat overweight i do have a certain portion of fat on my breasts just that i can't really tell how much of it is fat and how much is the breast tissue itself.
I will be 22 in a few months so, if you say you are 30 and have stopped transition 8 years ago, it means you were 22 at that time as well.  :)
My primary reason to start questioning and thinking through my initially very firm and strong decision to switch sex, is that i am afraid my expectations won't be merely met if i go through this. I was hoping for something totally different but, as i said, i can't see it coming.
On the other hand, i am not releigious, and therefore do not belong to any church or institution and don't fall under anyone's judgement of morality or something like that. And in my opinion all these ex-gay, ex-trans, ex-whatever movements are just a piece of crap.
I have faced the fact that, no way i will ever pass perfectly, even with all the surgeries and all the money in the world (even if i could afford all that but i surely can't). I will get read more or less often but i will, and the closer someone comes the greater chances he/she will read me. Surely i might pass to a stranger, or shop assistant, or someone who is totally not looking and totally not interested, but if someone was to take a closer look at me, there would be many trans clues,a nd i would get clocked easily.
And that is the fact i am not ok with. The whole purpose of transition for me was to simply become a woman/girl, but it seems i will never be able to get there, and therefore it lost its purpose. Surely i can be a trasngirl and live a life that way, but i don't think that will make me much happier, because that wasn't my initial goal.
The only thing i am afraid is that, like due to "untreated" GID i might go insane, depressed, suicidal, if it really gets so, as some have pointed out.

And another thought, that was allways in my head. What is the point of transitioning if you can't ever, like in a 100 years, pass? If you are going to be looked at as a guy in a dress instead of just a guy? Will that make someone more happy, that thay are not a guy but a guy in a dress, at least in someone's other eyes? I hope my question isn't offensive to anybody, and if it is i apologize in advance. :)

Was on HRT over a year, but not much more than that.  I had an orchiectomy shortly after I started HRT, so the HRT had a pretty dramatic effect after that.

If transition fails to meet your expectations and you quit, it IS possible that one day you will wonder, "if I had different expectations, maybe transition would have worked, perhaps I should try it again."  What I'm saying by that is that there is a good chance you'll be back if it is only a matter of your expectations because I promise your expectations will change the older you get and your mind will only be more tempted toward transition as you deal with the reality of a life with GID.

I quit transition because I realized there were aspects of transition I couldn't live with, something more enduring and damaging than my GID - the idea of lying to others.  It affected me so strongly, that I realized I'd sooner live with my GID than live knowing the lie my life would be.  You could say I didn't handle being stealth very well.

It was only then I started looking for ways to deal with my GID without complete transition and to date have been successful, but I recognize that the pull to transition is totally there.  I find myself missing elements of my transition, and if I don't also remember the heartache I experienced, I'd be tempted to believe my transition was all roses and wonder why I didn't continue in it.

I hope that answers some of your questions.  I'm certainly open to more.

I have been on HRT for 5 years and have had good solid growth with B cups.  I am married, completely accepting wife, family who knows, and a good job.  I choose not to transition, at this time, because it would totally disrupt my financial life.  Like  you, I don't think that I would pass well enough to maintain my job.  Now,  I do every thing possible to make myself less "transition crazy" as possible.  I have had all my facial hair removed.  I shave legs and pits.  I live as a girl on weekends.  My wife and I have an agreement that we will not flaunt it, nor deny it if asked.  I am never asked.  I will admit that I come across as pretty straight to those around me in the business world.  I hope that this will give you encouragement that it is possible, for some of us, to live in both worlds.  Perhaps some of the postings that you are reading stress that they would die if they didn't transition.  That, maybe, isn't you.  Your postings don't sound that way, yet you don't see a possible middle way.  I am trying to let you know that maybe there is, and it works for me. Good luck.

Quote from: Cindy Stephens on February 03, 2010, 10:55:02 AM
I am married, completely accepting wife, family who knows, and a good job.  I choose not to transition, at this time, because it would totally disrupt my financial life.  Like  you, I don't think that I would pass well enough to maintain my job

This is me in a nut shell. I just enjoy my breasts. Even though I never flaunt them, I don't care about the occasional look from someone because that someone has nothing to do with my life.

To be completely honest:
....
I'm a hypocrite. Hear me out, though, hypocritical as I may sound:

I'm afraid of losing family, yet I will try out dressing up, and if that works out, taking it further, even though I'm really scared.
For everyone not related to me: I couldn't care less about what they think. Honestly. I don't care if they're the ones paying me; I live in a country where it's illegal to fire people on personal grounds. If they make up a sorry excuse to fire me, anyway: Right; bye, then. If you don't like me: Whoops; your problem.
I've lived through an extremely violent childhood and teens, and survived, and all I've learned is: You can't satisfy people. No matter how hard you try to be the kind of person people like, you won't fit in with everyone. I've tried, and tried. I've tried to like 'boy things,' but I didn't understand them, so I looked at them from the wrong angle. I've toughened up to defend myself, but all that did was get me into more violence. (Though I have to admit it did save my life.) I even went as far as allowing people (of both genders) to sexually (ab)use me. All in order for people to accept me.
And you know what? Nada. Nothing works.
And now.. I try to be myself. I'm ad-libbing my life, and though I have my fears and financial problems, at least I'm no longer an outcast. I've learnt to speak my mind, and make it perfectly clear that whatever anyone thinks of it, it is mine. I'm open about nearly everything I feel, too, and to nearly everyone.
And now, I get along easily with just about everyone I meet! It's like a miracle happened. And all I did was to stop being the person I had to be, and became more of the person I am. (Sure; changing some things in my life at the right time helped. Suddenly becoming a pacifist while someone's trying to stab you is not a good move. :P)

It doesn't matter if you fail to live up to someone else's expectations. Honestly. If people look at you, and go: 'Oh, hey! A ->-bleeped-<-!' Well; why should you care? What's it to you? The people you love and care about; it's their opinion that matters but, given time, most of them sway, at some point or other.
And most importantly: It's who, and what, you want to be that matters.

And trust me; you won't go insane if you don't. Well; if you're not insane already, you won't. It requires a lót to become insane, for most people, and the threshold is genetic. Anyway; yes. You might become suicidal. That's not up to me, or anyone else. It's up to you, and how you feel about you, and your existence. You may live (un)happily ever after, or you may succeed in killing yourself. Whichever it is, you choose which of the three, and you choose what's important to you.

I'm very sorry if I sound really harsh on this. Really. I don't want to come across as that harsh. But it's what life so far has taught me.

Oh, and an edit: This is not a post about how you should continue with HRT. This is a post about how you should make the choice for yourself; not to appease the crowd. Or even me. Whichever you choose, it has to be for you.

Hello everybody,
Its been quite a while since i written on the forum, but i am sure some of you will remember my story (or if you don't you can read it now :)) I have since then taken some time off this forum, and also from the HRT, but it eventually helped me realize that i want to go through it, despite all the obstacles. So, i just wanted to give you a little update on the "story" I've started over a year ago (and i must say the time really did fly) ;)

Thank you Mari.

You do seem more positive. Don't be a stranger.

ItIT is never easy to live the way you want when face by society that does not accept you for you. You must make that choice to live as you want to.

Thank you, and i most definitely won't be a stranger,
just that i am sometimes too lazy to write  ;D