Susan's Place Transgender Resources

colon out of the way, can some postop girls here speak from personal experience just how much self-lub you get from penile inversion or suporn's 'scrotum inversion' technique? i gather dr bower claims some mystery tech over penile inversion, as do a number of other surgeons who points to the theory of graft tissues in there becoming vagina tissues over time...but from so many conflicting reports i can only conclude that this is some kind of crap shot stuff some get and some don't? could it also be influenced by the girl's psychology?

Would some of this lubrication be from the prostate?  I'd assume the urethra still passes through it, even though shortened, and I would think that the lube would be what you'd call pre-cum from arousal with a normal penis.

Maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about, but that would be my logical guess based on anatomy and sex.

I'm sure the ladies will jump in and correct me!

Jay

I was wondering about this the other night, because I don't really lubricate at all. I think we all use artificial lubricant in dilation, but some don't like to douche afterwards to remove the lubricant and others do. Could the fact that some people aren't removing the lubricant through douching make it seem like they are lubricating?

Just something I was wondering!  ;)

I think it depends on a number of things... some of them, like your genetics, beyond anyones control.

At first I did use lots of lube, but after I had been on the hormones for perhaps eight or ten years I found that the quantity of fluid that was produced by ??? yes I think it may be the prostate and the cowpers gland, but i'm not a doctor...

I understand that natal females have a thing called a Bartholin gland, which is functionally quite simiar to the prostate/cowpers gland, so my GP seems to think that after some years postop and on HRT it is quite possible that the prostate may morph into something closer to the female form... I don't know, thats just what he thinks!

Anyway where ever it came from, the quantity of lube I produced became markedly larger over time, and now I don't need artificial lube at all providing my partner redistributes the natrual stuff. So it can't be simply not douching - because I'm never adding any!

That's one of the reasons why I am having my revision surgery, to relocate the urethral opening into a better position where any released lube will be deposited at the right spot.

I think one of the things I have learned over my 25 years is that some of the changes that happen with hormones, happen very slowly. So I would not assume that the way things are now will be the way they always are.

I'm kinda dry down there but I'm only 1-year post-operational so maybe it'll improve with time?? Nobody's complained about anything yet. :laugh: There are also many genetic women that don't produce enough lubrication.  It's not really a big concern of mine and there's always artificial lubricants I can use to supplement what nature doesn't give me.

Quotei know at least for me, erm, that well appears to be dry.

I didn't think about the fact that maybe it does dry up on estrogen and no (or very little) testosterone.  Good point.

And yes many women are kind of dry there (I used to be one until after kids).  That's what lubes are for.  Finding the right one can be.... fun!  LOL  I found mine accidentally.


Jay

That is what I heard as well.  That post-op, I would be dry and have to use a lube from then on.

I was discussing this with a friend of mine who was seven years post-op at the time and she said cryptically, "That's not completely true..." and left it at that.  It was at my going away party so I didn't have a chance to follow up with her.

I talked with my surgeon, Dr. McGinn, who is herself a several year post-op woman.  She said there may be some internal lubrication post-op, but it would be minor and not in the same quantity as a GG.

I will be two years post-op in March and thus far I do notice both internal moisture and secretions from the cowpers gland.  But it is not enough to lube the exterior labia.  Lubrication there make insertions much more comfortable.  But if I move the labia out of the way, I can insert and have a quite comfortable dilation.

So I guess the answer is "maybe, some", YMMV.

But of all the post-op women I have spoken to, none of them have reported the same amount of moisture as a GG.

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on January 24, 2010, 09:29:55 AM
But of all the post-op women I have spoken to, none of them have reported the same amount of moisture as a GG.

Well I don't know how much a GG would make - but I can't honestly imagine anyone needing any more than I now produce.

Maybe it's a strange spin off benefit from the PAIS thing? But I'm certainly pretty copious - like moderately underwear spoiling levels! which to be honest can sometimes be embarrassing.

I think the only thing is to wait and see what happens - and meantime keep using the lube.

There can be multiple reasons for lack of lubrication, including pharmacological stuff.  SSRIs have a negative impact on lubrication; I've been on paxil since I was 13, so I've never had much in the way of either pre-cum then or lubrication now.

Lia

It can very person to person, and other things can affect it as well, ie, medications, your health, and stress. Also, being turned on also seems to make a difference.

It's the same with GG's; everyone is different. One example is one of my ex girlfriends (GG), and she had a problem with self lubing. She had to use lube or it would hurt, since she didn't produce enough on her own. There's a lot of women like her. There's nothing wrong with lube (it can be fun!).

As for myself, I self-lube, but it has varied depending on what medications I've been on, stress in my life, and if I'm turned on.

As for dialating, I will usually use a small amount because dialating isn't really a turn on. Unless I were to be using a toy or being with someone... but as for the hospital ones, they don't get me in the mood. LOL

As for douching after, one should have to or need to do that -- douching can be very unhealthy. Granted, in the first couple of months you will, because that's what the doctor recommends, but after 3 months most docs say don't, unless you're told to.

Why? Because you have vaginal flora that keeps your vagina healthy and helps fight off possible infections (bad bacteria or yeast). The healthy flora can also help with self-lubrication, because your vagina is healthy.

But, again, it will vary from person to person and it can vary depending on other factors (like meds). It's the same with GG women, some are drier than others and some are wetter. So, if you end up needing lube, it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong or that you're vagina isn't working correct.

I just realised that the difference in the amount of lube needed for dilation might be because of the difference between dynamic and static dilations. Dynamic dilations require moving the dilator around a lot, so it can get uncomfortable if the dilator isn't lubricated a lot.

The douching issue might vary between surgeons, that's probably due to the different techniques I guess. Dr suporn recommends douching after dilation, because the mixture of lubricant, sweat and skin enzymes can create an ideal environment for infections. I've heard that this is different for other surgeons though.

Quote from: Birdie on January 25, 2010, 04:08:42 AM
Dr suporn recommends douching after dilation, because the mixture of lubricant, sweat and skin enzymes can create an ideal environment for infections. I've heard that this is different for other surgeons though.

it's the same for the doctor I chose, the lube I've stockpiled may be sterile, there's no way in hell it will remain sterile after sitting around in a body fluid/tissue filled still healing environment (and as what'shername/gothique11 said above, once it's healed then it's mostly a matter of maintaining good bacteria)

Years of being post-op and on HRT is not going to make us lubricate like GG's or have periods or vaginas that stretch like theirs or allow for childbirth. This is not magic, its only Sex Reassignment Surgery. There is always going to be things we are incapable of. Let's not get deluded, we should try and accept all the aspects of being a post-op woman and follow our own care instructions for our precious and fragile vaginas, it makes things easier rather than wait for years looking out for changes and get all obsessed. Estrogen creams do help in softening the scar tissue and the vaginal tissues and overall HRT may gain our equipment some more feminine qualities but it does not make it the same. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am not being cynical. This is just the way it is. That's what we have to live with until the medical world makes a far better progress in this kind of surgery, at the moment, it's imperfect surgery regardless of the surgeon, anything could happen. The best we can do is pick the best surgeon at the time and really look after ourselves and heal well, the recovery period is crucial in success of surgery and ongoing dilations too of course. I wish all of us more healing and better health.

I umm.... self lube.... a lot. A LOT. When really, really turned on. E-mailed my surgeon about it and he made sure to tell me that no matter how much I self lube to continue using lube for any type of sexual intercourse.

The Cowpers gland, which is part of the prostate gland continues to secrete fluids, and may aid in vaginal lubrication of the post op, as it is not routinely removed in SRS surgery.

The Cowper's glands also known as the bulbourethral glands are compound glands, each approximately the size of a pea. During sexual arousal each gland produces a clear, viscous secretion. a pre-ejaculate, in the post op this may produce adequate vagianl lubrication, or there may be the need for an external lubricant much as there may be with the natal female.

Quote from: sneakersjay on January 23, 2010, 03:57:31 PM
Would some of this lubrication be from the prostate?  I'd assume the urethra still passes through it, even though shortened, and I would think that the lube would be what you'd call pre-cum from arousal with a normal penis.

Maybe I don't know what the heck I'm talking about, but that would be my logical guess based on anatomy and sex.

I'm sure the ladies will jump in and correct me!

Jay

The only way that would work is if they peed out of their vaginas.

A gf is post op (Suporn, 4 years), and she self lubes, and alot, I'm a witness (without getting into too much detail).    She also does not need external lube applied during vaginal penetrative sex. 

One note, she does swear that using insert-able estrogen tabs (like VagiFem or some such) as being one of the reasons she can get so "wet", and have the ability to self-lubricate.   I"ve heard this before too, and plan on trying it if I can't self-lubricate enough.  Something about the scrotal material used to line the vaginal canal are very estrogen receptive or some such notion ... no idea...  :P

Melan

Can anyone comment on a correlation between amount pre-op and post-op?  I'm pre-HRT and I've always had an issue with 'lubing up' at the slightest provocation, not necessarily sexual.  So for the people who have some post-op, did the old equipment work rather well in that particular department? :P

Quote from: jade on February 02, 2010, 05:10:47 AM
Years of being post-op and on HRT is not going to make us lubricate like GG's or have periods or vaginas that stretch like theirs or allow for childbirth. This is not magic, its only Sex Reassignment Surgery. There is always going to be things we are incapable of. Let's not get deluded, we should try and accept all the aspects of being a post-op woman and follow our own care instructions for our precious and fragile vaginas, it makes things easier rather than wait for years looking out for changes and get all obsessed. Estrogen creams do help in softening the scar tissue and the vaginal tissues and overall HRT may gain our equipment some more feminine qualities but it does not make it the same. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I am not being cynical. This is just the way it is. That's what we have to live with until the medical world makes a far better progress in this kind of surgery, at the moment, it's imperfect surgery regardless of the surgeon, anything could happen. The best we can do is pick the best surgeon at the time and really look after ourselves and heal well, the recovery period is crucial in success of surgery and ongoing dilations too of course. I wish all of us more healing and better health.

Im with you Jade on most of them points. Iv always been on the dry side down there and usually use a lubricate before my Fiancé penetrates, its not a problem, at this stage its just part of the routine, a girl has got to do what a girl has to do to satisfy her man and me as well of course.
p

Prior to SRS (nearly 36 years ago), I produced virtually NO lubrication (which may have been psychological) but after surgery, it was abundant - no artificial lubrication needed (with sufficient foreplay) for spontaneous straight sex.

My estrogen levels were not properly managed from 10 to 25 years post and the lubrication dropped to near nothing. After proper hormone levels were restored 3 years ago, the lubrication returned generously and I no longer need 'artificial help' unless the session is prolonged (like over 2 or 3 hours)  ;D Nearing orgasm, I become very WET!

The lubrication shows up at the opening of the urethra but it's source is a bit of a puzzle since the prostrate would long ago have shriveled up to nothing so the Cowper's glands must be responding to estrogen and doing its job. It is actually surprising how much lubrication it can produce in a short time.  ::)