News and Events => Religious news => Topic started by: Butterfly on January 24, 2010, 07:00:56 AM Return to Full Version
Title: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Butterfly on January 24, 2010, 07:00:56 AM
Post by: Butterfly on January 24, 2010, 07:00:56 AM
Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
by Opposing Views Editorial Staff
24 January, 2010
http://www.opposingviews.com/asks/can-catholic-church-include-transgender-people-tell-us-what-you-think/answers (http://www.opposingviews.com/asks/can-catholic-church-include-transgender-people-tell-us-what-you-think/answers)
It began innocuously enough when the incoming priest at St. Catherine of Siena Catholic Student Center at Drake University noticed a piece of paper on a copy machine in the parish office.
On it was a counselor's authorization of hormone therapy for a transgendered person about to undergo a sex change. On a letterhead that included the center's name and address.
by Opposing Views Editorial Staff
24 January, 2010
http://www.opposingviews.com/asks/can-catholic-church-include-transgender-people-tell-us-what-you-think/answers (http://www.opposingviews.com/asks/can-catholic-church-include-transgender-people-tell-us-what-you-think/answers)
It began innocuously enough when the incoming priest at St. Catherine of Siena Catholic Student Center at Drake University noticed a piece of paper on a copy machine in the parish office.
On it was a counselor's authorization of hormone therapy for a transgendered person about to undergo a sex change. On a letterhead that included the center's name and address.
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Natalie Foster on January 31, 2010, 12:18:11 PM
Post by: Natalie Foster on January 31, 2010, 12:18:11 PM
The Vatican issued a press release on 01-14-2003 and it says: "An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the patient's internal turmoil."
Of course this applies to people that actually have this issue and are actually serious about changing their sex, not all the people that pretend just to get sympathy and be the center of attention from others.
Of course this applies to people that actually have this issue and are actually serious about changing their sex, not all the people that pretend just to get sympathy and be the center of attention from others.
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: LordKAT on January 31, 2010, 05:49:29 PM
Post by: LordKAT on January 31, 2010, 05:49:29 PM
Quote from: Natalie Foster on January 31, 2010, 12:18:11 PM
Of course this applies to people that actually have this issue and are actually serious about changing their sex, not all the people that pretend just to get sympathy and be the center of attention from others.
? few and far between I would think. It is a ...difficult, if not dangerous road for anyone who tries it. The attention is usually not warranted or wanted. Keep your sympathy and just allow me to live my life.
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: cute becky on January 31, 2010, 08:28:12 PM
Post by: cute becky on January 31, 2010, 08:28:12 PM
to first understand religion. i need to know why im in this predicament in the first place....
did he slip and download the wrong operation software in to the disk drive?
we were born naked....
are we always going to be criticised by people we dont know or know them?
did he slip and download the wrong operation software in to the disk drive?
we were born naked....
are we always going to be criticised by people we dont know or know them?
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Allamakee on January 31, 2010, 08:58:07 PM
Post by: Allamakee on January 31, 2010, 08:58:07 PM
Quote from: Natalie Foster on January 31, 2010, 12:18:11 PMI think you are referring to a Catholic News Service (CNS) article which was published on that date. It described a Vatican document which had been distributed to the bishops sub secretum or under secrecy. This news article was not a Vatican press release, but a news leak of a document which is still not available to the public.
The Vatican issued a press release on 01-14-2003
The news article is no longer available on the CNS website, by Lynn Conway has the text on her website:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/CatholicTSDecision.html)
The article is well worth reading. Among its findings:
QuoteThe Vatican document's specific points include:
-- An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It
concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain
extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the
patient's internal turmoil.
-- But a source familiar with the document said recent medical evidence
suggested that in a majority of cases the procedure increases the
likelihood of depression and psychic disturbance.
The document also states that "sex change" doesn't change a person's sex. If someone is considered a boy at birth, they will be a man despite surgery, manner of life, and personal identification. To assert otherwise is considered "mental instability." Transsexuals are not eligible to become priests, brothers, or sisters. And they are not eligible to marry. However if a transsexual disposition existed before marriage, it is grounds for having the marriage annulled.
This secret document, if the article is correct, isn't friendly. It says that SRS is not sinful if someone is crazy enough, but it refuses to recognize the validity of the procedure.
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: cute becky on February 02, 2010, 07:30:33 AM
Post by: cute becky on February 02, 2010, 07:30:33 AM
i understand having my male bits removed that i will not be ALL woman...
having the ability to have children is still a no go at the moment.
medically at the moment its not possible....
times change and so will religion in time....
Jesus was here from god.....he cares for all who are are willing to get closer to god in satans wrecked world of suffering and turmoil.
the Vatican should not get in the way of any one drawing close to god in any shape or form.
if a man looses an arm....is the entitlement revoked saying god will not recognise you as your body has been mutilated?
i don't think so....
i dont full understand there way of life as a brother or sister but i know they are no different to me in the eyes of god....we are all born siners .
im loving and caring and help people if its in my ability to do so...
i work as hard as i can and play as hard as i can as well....giggles.
if by denying marriage is denying love .
love is what god is all about i thought?
in the 10 commandments....did it state ...thou shall not undergo surgery.
at the and of the day...they are only asuming what god would want...
all i know is im living my life in fear of whose next to have a poke and a prod at me for what ever reason they feel like...
more sanctions from society ....
when i see the s>-bleeped-<ing and laphing....thats ok....
i feel i brightened up someones day...
when i see that person again on the floor for getting a kicking from a rival gang....
im there to give a helping hand.....
or should i pull a meeting and talk over the terms and conditions first?
i know nothing stays the same ...
give it time....
we will find a day where we can live in peace and love one another without
prejudiced eyes or thoughts.
amen to that
having the ability to have children is still a no go at the moment.
medically at the moment its not possible....
times change and so will religion in time....
Jesus was here from god.....he cares for all who are are willing to get closer to god in satans wrecked world of suffering and turmoil.
the Vatican should not get in the way of any one drawing close to god in any shape or form.
if a man looses an arm....is the entitlement revoked saying god will not recognise you as your body has been mutilated?
i don't think so....
i dont full understand there way of life as a brother or sister but i know they are no different to me in the eyes of god....we are all born siners .
im loving and caring and help people if its in my ability to do so...
i work as hard as i can and play as hard as i can as well....giggles.
if by denying marriage is denying love .
love is what god is all about i thought?
in the 10 commandments....did it state ...thou shall not undergo surgery.
at the and of the day...they are only asuming what god would want...
all i know is im living my life in fear of whose next to have a poke and a prod at me for what ever reason they feel like...
more sanctions from society ....
when i see the s>-bleeped-<ing and laphing....thats ok....
i feel i brightened up someones day...
when i see that person again on the floor for getting a kicking from a rival gang....
im there to give a helping hand.....
or should i pull a meeting and talk over the terms and conditions first?
i know nothing stays the same ...
give it time....
we will find a day where we can live in peace and love one another without
prejudiced eyes or thoughts.
amen to that
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Julie Marie on March 10, 2010, 11:09:02 AM
Post by: Julie Marie on March 10, 2010, 11:09:02 AM
What I don't understand is why anyone would want to be a part of a religious organization that not only doesn't want them but preaches prejudice and discrimination against them.
There's plenty of religious organizations out there who do accept us. The RCC has nothing special over any of them. And if people walk away from a prejudiced organization, their donations go with them. Maybe it's better to hit them in the pocketbook than try to get them to change their ways with talk.
There's plenty of religious organizations out there who do accept us. The RCC has nothing special over any of them. And if people walk away from a prejudiced organization, their donations go with them. Maybe it's better to hit them in the pocketbook than try to get them to change their ways with talk.
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Dawn D. on March 10, 2010, 03:21:57 PM
Post by: Dawn D. on March 10, 2010, 03:21:57 PM
Quote-- A provision giving religious superiors administrative authority to
expel a member of the community who has undergone the procedure. In
most cases of expulsion from religious life, the superior must
conduct a trial.
Can you say.................inquisition?
Dawn
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Suzy on March 10, 2010, 05:40:28 PM
Post by: Suzy on March 10, 2010, 05:40:28 PM
Personally, I am not Catholic and would not want to be, especially given what has been disclosed above. But I have a slightly different take on this:
It is a scary thing for a church to be involved in housing something of this nature, especially when dogma at the top says they should not be doing so. This is the stuff lawsuits are made of. While I wish they would have continued, the liability issue is not a minor one here. All it would have taken is one disgruntled client and someone would have been searching for the deep pockets, i.e., the Catholic Church. So this was at least partially understandable from that viewpoint.
However, bigotry at the top levels of the organization is not right, no matter how it is cloaked. I am glad that there are wonderful Catholics all over who are bucking the trend and holding services which are not on church property. This seems to be a growing trend.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
QuoteThe intervention of the bishop, worried about liability for the Diocese of Des Moines. The firing of the transgendered woman who worked part time as parish housekeeper and who, as an independent social worker, used parish offices to provide counseling for transgendered clients.
It is a scary thing for a church to be involved in housing something of this nature, especially when dogma at the top says they should not be doing so. This is the stuff lawsuits are made of. While I wish they would have continued, the liability issue is not a minor one here. All it would have taken is one disgruntled client and someone would have been searching for the deep pockets, i.e., the Catholic Church. So this was at least partially understandable from that viewpoint.
However, bigotry at the top levels of the organization is not right, no matter how it is cloaked. I am glad that there are wonderful Catholics all over who are bucking the trend and holding services which are not on church property. This seems to be a growing trend.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
Title: Re: Can Catholic Church Include Transgender People? Tell Us What You Think
Post by: Julie Marie on March 13, 2010, 05:10:56 PM
Post by: Julie Marie on March 13, 2010, 05:10:56 PM
Since so many ignorant people equate trans people with pedophiles, you'd think the RCC would be sheltering us instead of rejecting us.
Ireland was the first in Europe to confront the church's worldwide custom of shielding pedophile priests from the law and public scandal. Now that legacy of suppressed childhood horror is being confronted in other parts of the Continent — nowhere more poignantly than in Germany, the homeland of Pope Benedict XVI. Full Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100313/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_church_abuse)
The last organization (as well as its leaders) that should be passing judgment is the RCC. But then again, if it weren't for judgment (day) they wouldn't have a following.
Ireland was the first in Europe to confront the church's worldwide custom of shielding pedophile priests from the law and public scandal. Now that legacy of suppressed childhood horror is being confronted in other parts of the Continent — nowhere more poignantly than in Germany, the homeland of Pope Benedict XVI. Full Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100313/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_church_abuse)
The last organization (as well as its leaders) that should be passing judgment is the RCC. But then again, if it weren't for judgment (day) they wouldn't have a following.