Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This is a theoretical question.

Let's say I get a job at some random place that has a dress code requirement for you to be clean and groomed; this is entirely understandable, and dirty poorly groomed people are gross. Can this company legally enforce you to cut your hair shorter (for guys), even though it's clean and well kept.

It seems to me that a company (or anyone in charge) forcing you to change your hair would be discrimination.

But I don't know know that they can actually force males to cut their hair short, for fear of termination. It's just a theoretical question, but it's one that's been on my mind.

Well, I can't say for certain if it is legally allowed to terminate you for having the wrong hair...that may be dependent on state laws...South Dakota for example is a right to work state where last i read they could terminate you with out any cause at all...but in places where there are tighter regulations they still can make working uncomfortable by giving you crap hours and such without any legal recourse i believe...now this is totally unethical but if I recall correctly legal...

If there is a dress code that is that specific then usually you are asked to sign an agreement on being hired that says you have read and understood the dress code and agree to follow it and understand that the ramifications of breaking that agreement. Lots of companies have dress codes but I wouldn't worry about it.

Hope that helps

Wendy :)

Here in the UK, absolutely.

No dress code can be unreasonable. But asking males to have reasonably short hair is not considered unreasonable.

I worked for a large telecommunications corporation in the U.S. a few years back before my transition but kept my hair then just as long as it is now. It was clean and neat but I never wore it in a ponytail, just down on my shoulders. They couldn't say anything about it because it would have been considered sex discrimination- if they made the male employees keep their hair a certain length they would have had to have same rule for females, and that was a battle they just didn't want to go there. The company had a union but I wasn't in it because of being a manager. It would have been even less likely they would have said anything to a union employee, but it was never an issue in any case.

Depends on the company, I would say.  I work for a company that guys had longer hair, by required them to have them in a ponytail, because of safty reasons.

I would go to the interview/appication and see what they say. 

A million years ago I applied at a company that required the male employees to be clean shaven,  I had a beard at the time.  I looked at the manager and told him point blank that he must not want qualified people working for them because the company was bigoted.  I then walked out.

Some places that require or prefer clean shaven are for health reasons. Hair that falls into food in a food processing plant would not be a good thing. Medical supplies and pharmaceuticals places are much the same way. It is not discrimination because ALL are required to be clean shaven.

It is not discrimination because ALL are required to be clean shaven.

At least in the US that is a correct legal reading.  So long as it applies to everyone it's not discrimination.  And companies are given huge latitude in US courts (largely because they have better lawyers) in what they do. 

Good point, that is by US laws. I don't know other countries.

At least here the legal assumption is that you don't have to take the job.  So if you don't like the dress code, work somewhere else.  Where I work we have 7 dress codes ranging from tux to Goodwill rejects.  Now if you want to work the symphony you have to wear a tux (there are no gender differences, women must wear a tux also) if you want to work some of the big conventions at the fancy hotels you have to wear a suit.  If you don't want to dress like that, don't take the job.

I regularly visit food processing factories in the UK.   Long hair has to be tied up and you have to wear hairnets.   Some factories require two hairnets at the same time.   Men with facial hair have to wear a beard snood (yes that is the correct name) which is a hairnet for the chin.

Some jobs such as the police and military have strict dress codes includung short hair,   This is sensible as if you are required to defend yourself there is nothing for the criminal to grab.  For most other professions, I doubt if it will be an issue unless it is suddenly a pink mohawk.

Well, when I was in the military I could theoretically get jail time for hair too long.  I did come close one time, but it was for a bowl haircut that did not amuse the First Sargeant. >:-)

But you were talking about civilian jobs...

- Kate

I can understand some of the dress codes.  But some are just because we say so.  The job I was referring to was not the food industry, it was in a hardware store.

When I managed an auto parts/repair company, we had a dress code for the mechanics.  Their hair could not be passed their collar, because if it was longer it could be catch in a moving part of the engine.  Safety issue.

I would ask when you apply that is probably the best.

Of course the hair will be well kept, and hygiene will be proper. Face shaved, showered, etc.

I guess what I am trying to ask is, Can they force a male to cut his hair short but allow a woman to have long or short hair (at her discretion)?

Yes, if all males are similarly situated.

If you want to get a job at some specific company, the day before the interview go down to the office at lunch time and see everyone go in and out for lunch.  Note what they are wearing and what they look like.  Show up to the interview looking just like they all do.

Quote from: azSam on February 12, 2010, 11:46:13 PM
I guess what I am trying to ask is, Can they force a male to cut his hair short but allow a woman to have long or short hair (at her discretion)?

If they do that, would it be sex discrimination? Yes. Would it be illegal? That's a whole different question....

As long as the standard is across the board they can do it.  Ask Disney, they've gotten sued for dress codes over all sorts of stuff, small stud earrings ok for women, not for men, women must wear bras, men don't - and Disney wins every time (of course Disney has a legal staff the size of the Matterhorn too).  Many places allow men and women to wear different styles of shoes, women can wear slacks or skirts, men can only wear slacks, and on and on.

The reality is that if company XYZ does not like guys with long hair (policy or not) they will not hire you if your hair is long - and since they have so many applications for the job, its going to be hard to do anything about it.

In Australia I'm not allowed to discriminate on appearance, sex, age etc. I do so all the time. I can always find another problem. But as far as hair goes, in my industry if it is clean, will not present a health or safeey issue not a problem.

But as Tekla said go and check, try and talk to some employees.

Cindy

Quote from: tekla on February 13, 2010, 12:24:47 AM
If you want to get a job at some specific company, the day before the interview go down to the office at lunch time and see everyone go in and out for lunch.  Note what they are wearing and what they look like.  Show up to the interview looking just like they all do.

Thats really good advice!

(Except dont do it around the IT department if they are Unix users  ;D)

Quote from: tekla on February 13, 2010, 01:12:51 AM
The reality is that if company XYZ does not like guys with long hair (policy or not) they will not hire you if your hair is long - and since they have so many applications for the job, its going to be hard to do anything about it.

And the sign said long haired freaky people need not apply
So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine upstanding young man, I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said imagine that, huh, me working for you

5 man electrical band - signs

If you eliminate people because of the length of their hair you are probably bypassing a fair amount of talent.

As well as concentrating more on what is between one's legs than between one's ears.....

38 states one can still be fired for being transgender, 29 states fired for being gay or lesbian.
Even if you work for a company that includes "gender identity/gender expression" in their EOE statement, it still gets staffed by "locals". I learned this first hand when I transferred to another store within the company. Now I am off to one of those other 12 states where state laws are better for work opportunities.
Always consider your options and best of luck to you.
Hugs~

I have my own business, but I no longer need to dedicate endless hours to it. I've been wanting to get out and get a part time job at some crappy place to get out. But if my appearance will present to much of a problem, I'll just travel abroad and work from my laptop ^_^

I worked for the Richmond Va city government when I was legally male. There were strict hair rules for police and fire personel, but "civilian" employees had no hair rules and I wore my hair in a Mick Jagger shag the entire time I was there. Seemed cool at the time. In the Seventies, the City Manager had dredds to his shoulders!

I'm sure that the artists for Disney, and the people who work for the various Disney movies are not subject to the park dress code either.  Some places, some jobs are more expressive than others, wacky-funky dress is fine in some situations, required in others (rock club cocktails waitresses, people working in ever-so-hip trendy boutiques), but in banking, well not so much.  However if you love wearing a suit, perhaps banking, stock brokers, finance company work might be just what you are dreaming of.  I have a friend who works in one of the big heavy downtown law firms and he says that casual Friday means its OK to wear a 2 piece suit and not the 3 piece suit.  Where I work we generally abuse people in suits and the dress code is non-existent and it shows!