Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have several questions:

1) What is the best hormone therapy for non ups who want to feminize themselves without loosing the ability for erections and orgasm?

2) Is orchiectomy really nessecary?  and why?

What do the docters even know about hormones. For instance to have estrogens without progesterone is not a normal female hormonal balance. Do the doctors really know what they are doing and is good for us? Since they dont even seem to know how to help woman in meno pauze? What do they really know for sure about our health anyway.

Well I live as a woman, and dont want to be entirely male hormonally because I want to stay feminine and the male sexual drive is way to overwhelming for me, but I dont want to become asexual on the other hand (which is what's happening now, I am on HRT).

I also wonder how the so called ->-bleeped-<-s do this? They look entirely female, but are orgasmic and do have erections.

*headdeak*
please, banish the word "->-bleeped-<-" from use. (because nobody should be reduced to their genitals)

that said, antiandrogens will *not* limit the ability to perform sexually, it just takes longer to get in the mood. the other side effects apply, most notably sterility.

I had my orchie because I wanted to reduce the side effects from the Spiro.  And who knows when I will be able to have SRS.  At least now I feel better about my body.  Not 100% but closer.

sorry I did not mean to offend... I am TG /non op TS myself and am sometimes amused
by the term because it sounds sooo ehm cultmovie-ish?

I  know I am a woman despite my *choice* not to *choose* surgery at this point in my life.
and would not want to be regarded as anything else...
just tried to make my point clear

I'm still fairly new here and glad I just read I can't give specific dose information.

I have been taking a low dose of Estrogen and Spiro for years and still am able to keep active by stopping after a time and then starting up again. I do this with my doctors supervision and more frequent visits.  Due to my getting older they are becoming concerned with this stop and start approach and possible affects on my health.  Also as time goes on it is taking longer and longer to get back up to speed so to speak.   I will say that stopping and starting is hard on me but it keeps my GID at bay. At these levels feminizing is minimal but being younger perhaps (with a doctors supervision) you could work up to a higher limit ?     

Hi there!

Thanks for the reply.
Due to health problems, I cannot start and stop...
so I have to take hormones constantly.. sometimes I do have erections when aroused on a low dose of T blocker and estrogens, but I am planning on increasing the estrogen due to health issues so I guess it wil be harder then...I am not sure...

Do you stop entirely? when you do... or do you just take less hormones then?

Thanks for the understanding post...

love

Basically I stop twice a year.  I start low work up slowly then down again and completely stop. It takes about a month until I start to have those morning surprises again. A couple more weeks and I'm go to go for a while again.  A lot of transsexuals have a problem with that. And if I were able to transition like others I would give it up in a heartbeat and this would not be a issue for me either. But as I can't transition and I am bisexual I still have other options.     

I had an orchi, but can still get erections (unfortunately for me).  When I was off all hormones (after the orchi) my sex drive was nill, but it could still be aroused.  On hormones (any even with the orchi) my sex drive has returned.

I wonder are you taking estrogens only or are you also taking progesterone?

It's called use viagra or levitra - I know t-girls who end up using either one for erectile dysfunction (for whatever personal reasons they had). Neither will increase or decrease your hormone levels of other T or E (as far as I know).

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Post Merge: April 08, 2010, 07:28:36 AM

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Also, I don't think T always equals sex drive -- I'm post-op and I'm a nympho. Of course, being post-op means I don't produce much T. I even tested recently, yep, as expected, low amounts of T. I think a lot of sex-drive is in the mind. I think it's 'cause male-bodies are used to relying on T for that drive... but in a way, you need to unlearn that and learn to use your mind to turn on your fires. Things get unblocked and then it's pretty easy from there.

Quote from: kimberrrly on April 05, 2010, 02:41:17 PM
I wonder are you taking estrogens only or are you also taking progesterone?

x
Kimberly

E only.

Ok... So this is gonna sound really weird.. But it will probably take me a long long time until I'm capable of affording SRS...


Now... Its been about 3 years of HRT and I've noticed some considerable changes to the area besides atrophy. The skin has completely changed, and whatever cells die, when they regrow I guess they've been reforming around what I have and making a kind of half assed labia. What I'm extremely curious about is how far does it go/revert/change in this manner? I've heard of cells normalizing after SRS, but I've already gotten a ton of changes down there. My therapist had mentioned that the longer you're on as a non-op (so far), the more reminiscent of an FtM it will start to look. There seems to be very little data of this on the internet... I'm wondering what else is going to happen/what people end up looking like if they've been on HRT for like 4-6 years, when non-op. Also, I might have an androgen disorder; I've grown actual hip bone. Its entirely possible because of the age I started, yes, but its been very noticeable, and I had signs of osteoporosis way before HRT, so its kind of astounding, actually.


Does anybody know of a single photograph or ANY descriptions of how far this happens/eventualities? It just seems extremely sparse and I want to know what I'm going to have to live with, even though I might be entirely dysphoric with it. I feel like I have to keep constant track of it and recallibrate myself sexually as often as I can muster it, cause I'm terrified of being anorgasmic post-op.


I'm serious about all of this... How much further has it been known to change? Its completely different now, and I have to know this.

Quote from: Kara-Xen on August 28, 2010, 04:44:21 AM
Ok... So this is gonna sound really weird.. But it will probably take me a long long time until I'm capable of affording SRS...


Now... Its been about 3 years of HRT and I've noticed some considerable changes to the area besides atrophy. The skin has completely changed, and whatever cells die, when they regrow I guess they've been reforming around what I have and making a kind of half assed labia. What I'm extremely curious about is how far does it go/revert/change in this manner? I've heard of cells normalizing after SRS, but I've already gotten a ton of changes down there. My therapist had mentioned that the longer you're on as a non-op (so far), the more reminiscent of an FtM it will start to look. There seems to be very little data of this on the internet... I'm wondering what else is going to happen/what people end up looking like if they've been on HRT for like 4-6 years, when non-op. Also, I might have an androgen disorder; I've grown actual hip bone. Its entirely possible because of the age I started, yes, but its been very noticeable, and I had signs of osteoporosis way before HRT, so its kind of astounding, actually.


Does anybody know of a single photograph or ANY descriptions of how far this happens/eventualities? It just seems extremely sparse and I want to know what I'm going to have to live with, even though I might be entirely dysphoric with it. I feel like I have to keep constant track of it and recallibrate myself sexually as often as I can muster it, cause I'm terrified of being anorgasmic post-op.


I'm serious about all of this... How much further has it been known to change? Its completely different now, and I have to know this.

Kara,

Honestly it sounds like you have something biologically going on besides just being a non-op transwoman on HRT.  If you have an endocrinologist, talk with her; if you don't, you might want to consider getting one.  You may have some sort of intersex condition because to the best of my knowledge what you describe is atypical.

Well keep in mind I started HRT when I was 19 and ALMOST done with male puberty. Its pretty apparent that I have an androgen disorder but I haven't taken any tests for that yet. I have a lot of chemical deficiencies in my brain and body I've been trying to repair and only recently has there been more light shined on it.


As for the genitalia... It looked pretty much completely male when I started this. It was skinny, yes, but male nonetheless. Its atrophied pretty bad and I using words like "Labia" or "labial" To describe what they're starting to look like. Is it a distinct opening or real, functiioning labia or the rest of the pieces? No..

But my point is that its becoming like that. I've heard many others get the same thing, not just me.. But others who transitioned at a young age. I doubt I'm literally some high sort of intersexed, but androgen disorder seems likely.


I'm just curious how much further that will go and who else knows of  stuff like this happening, personally, to them. MtFs that is.... Check your stuff after 3 years. What do you have?

@ Kara-Xen:

First, doctors know a TREMENDOUS amount about everything discussed in this thread.  Medical researchers have this subject matter down in exquisite detail even down to the molecular level.  I kid you not.  My job is quality control checking medical transcription at major hospitals all over the U.S.A.  I did frontline medical transcription for years.  All told, I've been in this line of work for about 15 years.  That's how I know these things.

Start with this link in your research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estrogen)

This is a really good starting point for the layperson who is not a medical specialist.  Follow the links of interest to you, of which there will be many. 

I could give you way technical links from databases used by endocrinological and neuropharmalogical researchers, but these are confidential to my work, and I simply cannot give anybody these links in good conscience.  Sorry, but I simply cannot, for to do so would not be right.  Again, follow the wikipedia links for further information on this topic. 

Second, because you began hormone replacement therapy in your transition at age 19, you were by no means finished with pubescence.  This, more than anything else, is why your changes have been profound and dramatic.  Non-ops who have hormone replacement therapy young like you did experience things like you are experiencing.  Realize, of course, that each person's reaction to hormone replacement therapy is unique. 

Third, I doubt that you have either an endocrinological abnormality or any manner of genetic disorder.  This could be the case, but it is rather unlikely.  Had you genuinely had such a condition, it would have manifested itself before you commenced hormone replacement therapy. 

Because of the work I do, I have access to databases that only doctors can access.  My point?  Yes, I've seen what you describe that you have.  Yes, doctors know a whole lot about it.  Yes, this is most likely happening because of your not yet being out of pubescence when you began your hormone replacement therapy.

Sexual function and hormone replacement therapy?  Totally an individual proposition.  Should you remain a preop?  Your decision all the way.  Might you become involuntarily asexual?  Indeed, that may happen.  Mind you, I'm in the same exact situation myself albeit at a much older age than you.  This bums me out, but I'm much older.  If I were your age, it would way bum me out. 

What can be done?  See an open-minded, qualified doctor and talk it over.  The problem is not that doctors don't know about these things.  The problem is that they have personal prejudices and often shy away from these things.  Mind you, your everyday endrocrinologist will NOT know about hormone replacement therapy involving sex hormones all that much.  You would be well advised to see an endocrinologist who specializes in treating people with sex hormone issues.  That would be by way of referral from another doctor. 

Really think it over before getting doctors deeply into this issue.  It will be a very expensive proposition for you.  The kind of specialists I'm talking about here are totally pricey.  Unless you have insurance that WILL cover these visits, rethink this option.  Don't mean to bum you out, but I'm telling you this so that you know it ahead of time.  We're talking expensive specialists here.  Just telling you so you know, that's all.

It's a touchy situation.  Hope you can work it out, I really do.  I feel your pain, again, because I'm experiencing the same thing you are, moreorless, but I'm much older, so my time is past anyway. 

Best of luck with this.   

The best advice anyone should give you in this situation is to consult your doctor! Hormones are not something you can just play around with. HRT can be very dangerous if you are not properly cared for by a doctor.

Quote from: Dana Lane on September 07, 2010, 02:51:41 PM
The best advice anyone should give you in this situation is to consult your doctor! Hormones are not something you can just play around with. HRT can be very dangerous if you are not properly cared for by a doctor.

I'm prescribed. Its not like I'm just starting. I have a gender therapist too... And the reasons for possible androgen disorder or something is because the cortisol had a weird level and I show other possible signs in my physical structure because my therapist is very knowledgeable on these things. She's a gender therapist as well.

And why is it so bad to show others research data or results? Why does science have to be private? Of course there are confidentiality things. Those I WOULD understand, but what?

Its not necessary bumming me out, but its still strange and unexpected is all. I'm more afraid of the final surgery not having enough material to make it the right size... Cause of atrophy cause I can't afford anything that major for a long long time... I do not wish to remain preop, I'm too dysphoric. I am on this thread not cause I WANT to remain this way, but because I have no other choice... :o

Quote from: Dana Lane on September 07, 2010, 02:51:41 PM
The best advice anyone should give you in this situation is to consult your doctor! Hormones are not something you can just play around with. HRT can be very dangerous if you are not properly cared for by a doctor.

Totally agree with Dana. 

Quote from: LaceyLynne on September 13, 2010, 10:22:23 PM
Totally agree with Dana.

=_=; *Facepalm* Read what I just saiiiiid.

I mean yeah I can ask my endo a bit and my gender therapist a bit, but I don't really have any other choices here. They're the egomaniacal kind that think I'm butting in on their territory just for asking questions... Which I think is perfectly reasonable because I'm the one ON the hormones, not the person who's prescribing them and has never even been through menopause. I just think more data should be available as well as documentation of affects and outcomes. That'd be more helpful and would ease my thoughts a bit.

Quote from: Kara-Xen on September 14, 2010, 04:16:59 AM
=_=; *Facepalm* Read what I just saiiiiid.

I mean yeah I can ask my endo a bit and my gender therapist a bit, but I don't really have any other choices here. They're the egomaniacal kind that think I'm butting in on their territory just for asking questions... Which I think is perfectly reasonable because I'm the one ON the hormones, not the person who's prescribing them and has never even been through menopause. I just think more data should be available as well as documentation of affects and outcomes. That'd be more helpful and would ease my thoughts a bit.

Hi, Kara:

Actually, many of us here DO understand what you are saying.  We're just concerned for you, that's all.  We only recommend seeing the doctors because some people have administered their own hormone replacement therapy treatment over the years and ended up in serious trouble healthwise, because they didn't know any better.  However, I can see that you are way too intelligent to ever do anything like that.  Good!

Frankly, I've worked in the medical field (support personnel) for a long time, and I think the whole medical field, like the legal field, the accounting field, etc., rips people off.  They keep this knowledge from us so they can charge us a fortune for access to it ... which is only through them.  This is by design.  I totally agree with you that this knowledge should be freely available for any intelligent person to see, learn and understand. 

There is some good news here.  If you do not have enough skin tissue to work with at the time of your GRS/SRS, any good, competent, experienced plastic surgeon can do skin grafting and successfully complete your GRS/SRS. 

I really feel for you.  I'd have the same concerns if I were you.  Hope this all works out to your satisfaction.  Good luck!

If you want hormone therapy because you need it, you should be less worried about the sexual pertinence and more about the outcome of the specified treatment.  Right?  And you own your own freedom.  I think generally that estrogen and testosterone together interfere sexually with each other.  Guys have tight asses, girls don't -- the testosterone wins.  The lack of testosterone eventually reduces physiological pressure on genital size.  Not having bullets is another issue.  GD.  But if you know what you are doing, it is not difficult at all.

Quote from: abby on September 16, 2010, 07:22:37 PM
If you want hormone therapy because you need it, you should be less worried about the sexual pertinence and more about the outcome of the specified treatment.  Right?  And you own your own freedom.  I think generally that estrogen and testosterone together interfere sexually with each other.  Guys have tight asses, girls don't -- the testosterone wins.  The lack of testosterone eventually reduces physiological pressure on genital size.  Not having bullets is another issue.  GD.  But if you know what you are doing, it is not difficult at all.

If you know what you're doing sexually? Or SRS?

And the outcome of specific treatment depends on nutrition I get. I've been very physically sick and probably have malabsorption.. So MANY of the outcomes have been stunted so far by sickness. The autoimmune thing lowers my appetite a ton too. And for the record. I did self medicate... And I wasn't stupid about it. I just needed it. In fact, the homeostasis that really helped me was kind of shattered by my endo when she cut my dosage in half. My body then OVERCOMPENSATED and made a TON of T. This caused some last minute damage... Like some vengeful testosterone coming back from the grave. I only started via getting my own hormones because I knew they were legitimate and trustworthy (which the pharmaceutical/doctor relationship cannot claim, because it still gives us stuff thats 10 times as dangerous as a run of the mill dose of estradiol and spiro). I did it because I had no other choice. I knew that I needed it and would have gone insane if I had waited through gatekeeper nonsense when I knew I had had dysphoria for that long. It just hurt too much. I did NOT want to go through the BS of waiting six months, cause I knew. Was it risky? Yes... But so is taking Tylenol. If you're not a moron about it, you're not going to instantly drop dead. The chances of that are miniscule if you monitor your potassium levels and know of the side effects. Its not like your endo is a superhero and can save you during Deep Venous Thrombosis or something. Either A. You're on the same generic dose of estradiol and yes... The blood tests are a way to keep it more safely monitored but thats never exact... You get tested every like... Six months until you've been on it long enough, and then they decrease that amount of tests every year... Even though hormones can vastly fluctuate during puberty in their cycles and balance. So unless you monitored it every few weeks... Its not an instant save anyway. Endos not gonna bust in wearing a cape and de-clot your bloodstream... You're gonna either die, or the ambulance will save you. And yes... The chances of that stuff goes way up with higher doses... Which I wasn't really on. Or B. You do pretty much the same thing, bypassing the arbitrary, stupid nonsense and block testosterone before it damages you any further, taking a low enough dose to prevent osteoporosis. Does it maybe make it slightly riskier? Of course... But this mattered enough to me to risk it. I would not have been able to endure the fear of testosterone messing up my mind and body any further... And if anyone thinks I'm an idiot for saying this, I don't really care... Its more risky to dress and act as myself in this town, and getting a rock thrown at me by young rich kids hopped up on puberty and steroids (yes... I'm not making this up).

I wasn't as much concerned about sexual function, as I was about how far its going to go. I'm curious and wish there were more DATA I could see/read/hear of... And it sounds like the least studied thing in the world... Or that the studies are never published on the internet... Which would be really useful cause the news on TV does NOT care about transgendered people, and I hope that at least ONE study like this is published and added to the datastream. No matter how trivial or obscure... Even if I could be considered obscure, my existence and other trans peoples existences should still be just as meaningful and count. You can probably find more scientific articles in this country on the affects of damned Viagra, than us. And I guess Thats just the reality and I should accept it.


As for sexuality... Like completely... Now that we're on this subject. I want to remember to make this clear... I am too dysphoric to function forever with certain things on this mortal vehicle, that I was born with for a stupid reason. I am not OK with my parts. I figured I'd post here because I'm technically non-op in a lot of ways, cause even though I'm REALLY a pre-op.. It sounds kinda stupid to me to call myself a pre-op when I'm not going to afford this procedure for YEARS. In fact I have no idea how I can survive like this for that long. I'm extremely sensitive with my perception of self. Very very vivid. I don't feel comfortable using what I have at ALL. But at the time I felt it appropriate to post here cause for the time being, I'm almost a non-op cause I'm not going to afford this forever, cause I'm too sick to work right now.

For the record I have no problems with non-ops by choice. Its whatever you're comfortable with... And thats my point about all of this. I'm not a closeminded prude for not accepting what I have or anything... And I can't think of it as something else. I'm just uncomfortable and SHARPLY dysphoric about that. I cannot will it away. I don't have the power to and frankly if I could It would not be fulfilling or worth it. But thats just me...

Quote from: Birgitta on March 05, 2010, 09:02:50 AM
I have several questions:

1) What is the best hormone therapy for non ups who want to feminize themselves without loosing the ability for erections and orgasm?

The hormone therapy is irrelevent.  The amount of testosterone necessary to achieve an erection is so miniscule that no prescribable amount of anti-androgens will take a non-op transwoman to the point where she is hormonally unable to achieve erection.  The most important sex organ is the brain.  The brain decides when to make an erection.  So the relevent therapy is mental therapy.  The easiest way to change something is to change the way you think about it.

Quote from: Birgitta on March 05, 2010, 09:02:50 AM

2) Is orchiectomy really nessecary?  and why?

Testicles don't like estrogen.  It increases the risk of testicular cancer to keep them.  Plenty of people take andro for it's real purpose, lowering blood pressure; and take it for the rest of their lives.  But it can cause liver problems.  So an orchi is trading one set of risks for another set of risks.  In my opinion, it is not necessary; nor well-advised.

Quote from: Birgitta on March 05, 2010, 09:02:50 AM
What do the docters even know about hormones. For instance to have estrogens without progesterone is not a normal female hormonal balance. Do the doctors really know what they are doing and is good for us? Since they dont even seem to know how to help woman in meno pauze? What do they really know for sure about our health anyway.

Science has always been, and will always be using flashlights in the dark.  You see what is illuminated by the beam, and can think that is all there is, if you choose.

In my opinion, doctors don't know more about the human body than they do know.  What they know, they know really, really well.  But what they don't know can kill you.

In my opinion, doctors can never know more about YOUR condition than you can.  They have too many other patients and too many other conditions to keep track of.  You can specialize in YOUR case and YOUR condition, take charge of YOUR treatment, and consult with doctors.

In my opinion, that is the way every person with any serious medical condition should proceed.  And it's been my experience that doctors respect a patient who takes this approach.

Gina I think you are so right about all these things!
Thank you for your honest reply!

(I have found the answer for myself for now... I have undetectable T, but enough estrogen to remain sexual, which is what I desired)

love
Birgit