Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hello, all...I've been living as close to full time as possible for me at the moment and would like some advice as to how I should/could push myself into being completely full time. I've been out as male to the people that matter for about 3 years. People outside of my social circle rarely read me as male/a man, because of this I don't exactly have the confidence to do things like using the men's bathroom if I have to use a public restroom. I usually won't correct a bartender or waiter which I've been told I need to do to truly be full time.

So, what did you do to push into whatever the final step was in living full time? Should I just push myself to use the men's restroom?

Nygeel:

It isn't what you do, it's how you feel.  If your internal confidence is such that you *know* you are male then you can go and do anything.

And, yes, it is making a commitment to be male in all respects.  When people make mistakes, correct them.  It doesn't have to be mean or angry, just a simple correction usually works.  For me, when I would correct someone, I would also review my own presentation to see how I could improve it so that those types of mistakes wouldn't happen as often.

Also, guys rarely say anything to anyone while in the john.  Just go in, do your thing then leave.  No one will question you.

-Sandy

There have been occasions where I have used the restroom and it was awkward to say the least. Toilets with only a divider, urinals only.

The other day somebody that wanted me and a friend to do a survey said "hey, ladies" she yelled "he's not a lady!" The person asking about the surveys shouted back that I was. It's hard to have confidence when hardly anybody acknowledges your identity (at least for me).

I was presenting full time at work and this week I officially went full time. I do not pass for the most part. I got a carry letter from my doctor for bathroom use outside of work. I have found nobody pays much attention so far. I was very nervous at first but now feel a bit more comfortable.

I think it is mainly to just make it official and your brain will conform.  Having a carry letter from your doctor that states you are under their care for GID and wording for bathroom use might help as well.  I can't see anyone giving you a hard time going into the mens room.

Quote from: Dana Lane on March 11, 2010, 02:21:45 PM
Having a carry letter from your doctor that states you are under their care for GID and wording for bathroom use might help as well.  I can't see anyone giving you a hard time going into the mens room.

Ah, problem is that I'm not under a doctor's care. I can't afford a doctor. I went to one about a year ago, maybe two years ago. It didn't seem to get anywhere so I stopped wasting my money (I was broke then, too).

Quote from: Nygeel on March 10, 2010, 11:34:27 PM

The other day somebody that wanted me and a friend to do a survey said "hey, ladies" she yelled "he's not a lady!" The person asking about the surveys shouted back that I was. It's hard to have confidence when hardly anybody acknowledges your identity (at least for me).

Ask yourself what any other man would have done in those circumstances?

I doubt the guy really wanted a survey, he was probably lining you up to sell you some garbage.

In any case, such a public insult shouldn't go unchallanged. At the very least, keep a serious face and stare directly at him.

I strongly suggest, the first thing you must do is learn to stand your ground. You have a right to be here. Have some confidience in yourself and don't take nonsense from anyone.

If a barman addresses you as a female, keep your face slightly down, with your eyes raised, so you're looking directly at him, stand perfectly still, and say in a condifent, certain tone, 'You will address me as sir!'

If you continue to take this crap, you may as well lie down in the gutter. Men have to stake their claim on the world.

Do I really have to be the machoest man in the world, if so that's not me. I think that a guy that is actually secure in his sexuality and gender really wouldn't give a crap.

The thing with a bar is that my ID says F...it has a female name. Bars near me check IDs.

QuoteMen have to stake their claim on the world.

Have to? Really?

No, you don't have to be macho. But you do need to be assertive.

I didn't know about bars checking ID. it will be a little difficult to make that demand in that case.

Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 03:15:34 PM
Do I really have to be the machoest man in the world, if so that's not me. I think that a guy that is actually secure in his sexuality and gender really wouldn't give a crap.

The thing with a bar is that my ID says F...it has a female name. Bars near me check IDs.
Have to? Really?

If you are not sure then hold off. You will know when you are ready.

When that time comes then just do it and enjoy yourself.

I am sorry if the answer sounds a bit flip. But its your decision and you will know what is right for you.

I agree with Catherine.  It all depends on your situation and how you feel inside.  One morning I just knew it was time for me to go full-time.  How did I know?  I don't know, but I was ready.  I didn't pass.  My ID had my old name and picture, etc.

Become who you are.  At some point you will know it is time to take the next step (or you will know you don't want to take it).  Don't force it.

- Kate

Quote from: Catherine on March 11, 2010, 06:15:02 PM
If you are not sure then hold off. You will know when you are ready.

When that time comes then just do it and enjoy yourself.

I am sorry if the answer sounds a bit flip. But its your decision and you will know what is right for you.

Not sure of what?

See...I would think that after 3 years I should know but I don't.

There is no timetable.  I think this, like a lot things, takes a lot of background, internal work we aren't really aware that we are doing.  You'll know when it is time for you.

- Kate

Quote from: K8 on March 11, 2010, 08:36:21 PM
There is no timetable.  I think this, like a lot things, takes a lot of background, internal work we aren't really aware that we are doing.  You'll know when it is time for you.

- Kate

Can I have some examples of what things, background, and internal work you are referring to? I feel many of these answers are very vague and don't make sense to me.

When inside your screaming "I can't live like this anymore". When everytime you look in the mirror a little bit more of you dies. When person you were born to be is demanding to be let out

Well, do you care if bartenders and wait staff misread you sometimes? Do you want to correct them, but hold yourself back because you don't want to be rude? Or do you genuinely not mind? That's not a question anyone can answer for you.

On the bathroom thing, though, you probably should use the men's if it's not seriously a safety issue (no doors on stalls = pretend you just came in to wash your hands, and go find another bathroom; at best, someone could accidentally see you undress, and at worst, it could be a bathroom where guys cruise for sex, which is the usual reason for door removal, though it doesn't work). If there are doors, you can just go in, do your business, and leave, and it's really not that different.

Quote from: al james on March 11, 2010, 09:22:32 PM
When inside your screaming "I can't live like this anymore". When everytime you look in the mirror a little bit more of you dies. When person you were born to be is demanding to be let out

I'm sorry, but that doesn't quite make sense, either. I don't really ever look in a mirror, and I'm out to the people that matter.

The only way your going to know your ready to be full time is when you want everyone to perceive you as male. TBH if your quite happy for people to think your female and it doesnt bother you then your not ready imo. and believe me when youve had the screaming inside your head it DOES make sense

My  must use the mens restroom now was getting my ID/DL changed to male. That was the material thing that made me change the use of restrooms, was easy to change in Oregon got a letter from my therapist after one session and that was that.  That gave me the confidence cause even if I didn't pass I could just whip out my ID and say here you go. That was my final step, I am not sure what yours will be. Mine had nothing to do with emotional confidence more with hey here is my "golden ticket"  (ID) confidence.
I am not sure how hard it is to change your ID in the state you are in since all states are different or if that is an important part of it to you but that was my push.
Myles
Guys do not need to be macho they just need to be. Going through all this to finally live as myself I am sure heck not going to now be what everyone thinks a guy should be.

When I got to the point that I just did not care what others thought, I knew it was time to step of that line.

I set a date to change my name legally,  informed work of my intentions and had my therapist write the letter that Myles mentioned ( live in the same area ).  I was ready mentally, when the date for my name change came.  I walk in to the courtroom and walked out into my new life.  One week later, I went on vacation and never looked back.

al james: I never said I was happy with people thinking I'm female, it does bother me but so do a lot of things. I just tolerate it in the same way that I tolerate other people that aren't significant in my life that have negative views on me (ex: homophobes).

Myles, and Janet Lynn: Those are things that I can understand...needing something on paper to give that little push. I think I would probably need, or at least want the legal system supporting my ID first. Sadly, I won't be able to do any of those things for a fairly significant amount of time.

Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 07:38:12 PM
Not sure of what?

See...I would think that after 3 years I should know but I don't.

Well then you are not ready. Something is holding you back. Only you know what that is.

You will feel it when the time is right for you.

For me it was sod it I am really fed up with trying to be something I am not. I just got on with it. IT took 35 years to get to that point though And there was a hole load of unhappiness and hurt in those years. Now I couldn't be happier.

but as I said you are different and you have to sort it out in your head.

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Post Merge: March 12, 2010, 08:15:33 AM

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Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 10:03:10 PM
al james: I never said I was happy with people thinking I'm female, it does bother me but so do a lot of things. I just tolerate it in the same way that I tolerate other people that aren't significant in my life that have negative views on me (ex: homophobes).

Myles, and Janet Lynn: Those are things that I can understand...needing something on paper to give that little push. I think I would probably need, or at least want the legal system supporting my ID first. Sadly, I won't be able to do any of those things for a fairly significant amount of time.

No No no no no!!!!

A piece of paper does not make you who you are. You are you not what some bit of paper says. If you think that you are making a big mistake.

What is holding you back REALLY ?? There has to be something in your head that is stopping you. You need to get past that and then you will be ready. Getting a bit of paper is not going to sort that issue you have out.

Having an ID card maybe will save you a bit of embarrassment but at the end of the day it is only a bit of paper.

I know I am being a bit strong here but really you are you whatever anyone else thinks. When you are ready to be full time then you will know.

I didn't transition in the early 80s because I didn't think I had support and was afraid of how my life would end up.  I had a bunch of problems I needed to work on that wouldn't be "cured" by transition.  (Low confidence, few job skills, trouble making and keeping friends, etc.)

I transitioned last year when I felt strong enough and knew that I could manage even if I lost all my friends, had to move out of town, people would make fun of me, and perhaps I would even be attacked and killed.  When I knew I could accept any and all of those outcomes, I knew I was ready.

For me, it was in internal readiness.  In some ways it feels like stepping off of a cliff into the vast unknown.  You pack your safety gear, but you still don't know what will happen.  You prepare for the worst and hope for the best and go.

Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 08:43:05 PM
Can I have some examples of what things, background, and internal work you are referring to? I feel many of these answers are very vague and don't make sense to me.

When I was working, often I would have a problem with a system I was designing that I couldn't figure out.  Then, on a weekend or in the middle of the night, I would realize what needed to be done.  My unconscious mind had worked through the problem.  I think the same happens with life problems.  There are some knots that need to be untied before you can go forward, but your conscious mind sometimes blanks them out because you aren't ready to deal with them yet.

If a piece of paper helps, fine.  But it is the internal readiness that will see you through.  Good luck, dear.  You'll get there.

- Kate

What I hear you saying, Nygeel, is that you are looking for some sort of verification that what you feel truly exists. 

Having a doctor or therapist give you a carry letter can be that sort of verification.

But other than that, there really is no way to say absolutely that you are transsexual.  There is no objective test that will prove that diagnosis.

So we come out of our denial, then we discuss this with our therapist and they will base their findings based on their training and experience with others who have the same issues.

But, just like Kate said, it still comes down to taking a deep breath and stepping into the abyss.  That internal confidence will arise when you are ready.  And like a lemming, you will be unable to do anything else. 

Many of us take on the image of the butterfly as our symbol.  Not because it is pretty, though it is, but the caterpillar that was the butterfly was driven to change by the very same pressures.  When the time came, the caterpillar could do nothing else but change.  And if it is kept from change, it will perish.

Many others have said the same thing, and I will also add my feelings; You'll know when you are ready.  Just like the caterpillar knows.

I wish I could give you something more substantial than that, but if I could, I would like to have had that too.

-Sandy

Catherine: I still don't really understand what you're saying. I live my life as a man as much as I feel comfortable with right now. I bind my chest, I've had everybody I know using my male name, and male pronouns. Heck, a few of my friends don't even know my birth name. I feel as if a piece of paper would be like somebody else backing me up be it the legal system, or a therapist.

K8: I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty good support system. I think transitioning physically/hormonally would help me with my confidence but right now I can barely afford to pay the bills. There's also an issue of looking at the negative side effects of testosterone and how bad it might be for my body based on my family's health.

Sandy: Yep, I am looking for verification. I did go to a therapist for about 3 months, told them absolutely everything I could that was gender related. When I talk to other trans men, though I don't feel connected to them. I don't feel as if we share the same feelings towards our identities. I think that if/when I do transition (in some way shape or form) to male that I will feel more comfortable in my own skin but I also feel that I would be a lovely feminine man.

Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 10:03:10 PM
al james: I never said I was happy with people thinking I'm female, it does bother me but so do a lot of things. I just tolerate it in the same way that I tolerate other people that aren't significant in my life that have negative views on me (ex: homophobes).

sorry- must have mis read you.

Quote from: Nygeel on March 12, 2010, 01:57:15 PM
Catherine: I still don't really understand what you're saying. I live my life as a man as much as I feel comfortable with right now. I bind my chest, I've had everybody I know using my male name, and male pronouns. Heck, a few of my friends don't even know my birth name. I feel as if a piece of paper would be like somebody else backing me up be it the legal system, or a therapist.

K8: I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty good support system. I think transitioning physically/hormonally would help me with my confidence but right now I can barely afford to pay the bills. There's also an issue of looking at the negative side effects of testosterone and how bad it might be for my body based on my family's health.

Sandy: Yep, I am looking for verification. I did go to a therapist for about 3 months, told them absolutely everything I could that was gender related. When I talk to other trans men, though I don't feel connected to them. I don't feel as if we share the same feelings towards our identities. I think that if/when I do transition (in some way shape or form) to male that I will feel more comfortable in my own skin but I also feel that I would be a lovely feminine man.

Nygeel,

What I am trying to tell you is that you are who you are. You really dont need validation of a bit of paper because with or with out this paper you are still you.

If you feel that you need something to kick you in to living as a man full time maybe you are not ready in your mind.

I dont know what you are feeling but I can tell you that I knew when I was ready to go full time and there is no bit of paper that would validate me more than what is in my mind.

Maybe I misunderstand what you are trying to say. You say you are to all intents and purposes full time to your close circle. But are not full time to the rest of the world. You possibly feel that an ID card is going to push you over the edge so to speak.

I would say to you the if you were really ready it would not matter one bit whether you had a bit of paper or not.

I maybe looking at this totally the wrong way for you but I can only give my opinion. But most of us on here will tell you that they knew when they were ready and didn't need something to push them over the edge.

In the end you need to be happy and only you can know whether you are or not. I can tell you how I felt when I went full time. It was like a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders and I haven't been happier in my life and I haven't changed my documents as yet due to being busy elsewhere.

So what I am trying to say to you in a round about way is do what makes you happy but be sure when you do as going back is going to be very difficult.

I am sure you will make the right decision for you and I am sure in the end you will be happy.

Quote from: Catherine on March 12, 2010, 05:37:54 PM
Nygeel,

What I am trying to tell you is that you are who you are. You really dont need validation of a bit of paper because with or with out this paper you are still you.

If you feel that you need something to kick you in to living as a man full time maybe you are not ready in your mind.

I dont know what you are feeling but I can tell you that I knew when I was ready to go full time and there is no bit of paper that would validate me more than what is in my mind.

Maybe I misunderstand what you are trying to say. You say you are to all intents and purposes full time to your close circle. But are not full time to the rest of the world. You possibly feel that an ID card is going to push you over the edge so to speak.

I would say to you the if you were really ready it would not matter one bit whether you had a bit of paper or not.

I maybe looking at this totally the wrong way for you but I can only give my opinion. But most of us on here will tell you that they knew when they were ready and didn't need something to push them over the edge.

In the end you need to be happy and only you can know whether you are or not. I can tell you how I felt when I went full time. It was like a huge weight being lifted off my shoulders and I haven't been happier in my life and I haven't changed my documents as yet due to being busy elsewhere.

So what I am trying to say to you in a round about way is do what makes you happy but be sure when you do as going back is going to be very difficult.

I am sure you will make the right decision for you and I am sure in the end you will be happy.

I know that I am who I am. I dress how I want, try pretty darn hard to pass (usually doesn't work, but after maybe 4-5 years of dressing male/masculine I really don't care). I would like to have somebody in power to agree with me. That way when I am in a situation where somebody says "she" I can easily say "no it's he" and have some sort of proof other than my word.

I would consider myself happy with where I am so far, but that's because where I have been wasn't too great. I don't mind when little kids ask their parents "is that a boy or a girl?"

Quote from: Nygeel on March 12, 2010, 06:11:39 PM
I know that I am who I am. I dress how I want, try pretty darn hard to pass (usually doesn't work, but after maybe 4-5 years of dressing male/masculine I really don't care). I would like to have somebody in power to agree with me. That way when I am in a situation where somebody says "she" I can easily say "no it's he" and have some sort of proof other than my word.

I would consider myself happy with where I am so far, but that's because where I have been wasn't too great. I don't mind when little kids ask their parents "is that a boy or a girl?"

Then maybe you are ready to go full time.

You will never get a counsellor or Psych to tell you what you are incase they are wrong.

A bit of paper makes no difference one way or the other.

So do what YOU feel is right. Thaat is the best advice me or anyone else can give you.

Hi Nygeel

You say at the start of this thread:

Quote from: Nygeel on March 10, 2010, 10:06:59 PM
I've been living as close to full time as possible for me at the moment and would like some advice as to how I should/could push myself into being completely full time. I've been out as male to the people that matter for about 3 years. People outside of my social circle rarely read me as male/a man

I hate to say it and I do not mean to imply any nastiness either, but you will not be able to go full time, unless people outside your support circle "read you as a man", every time.

From what you have said in the thread, you have alluded to, that you want everyone to read you as a male. For example:

Quote from: Nygeel on March 10, 2010, 11:34:27 PMThe other day somebody that wanted me and a friend to do a survey said "hey, ladies" she yelled "he's not a lady!" The person asking about the surveys shouted back that I was. It's hard to have confidence when hardly anybody acknowledges your identity (at least for me).

And

Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 10:03:10 PMI never said I was happy with people thinking I'm female, it does bother me

So you need to change things that will ensure that people outside your support group, will read you as a male.  I'm aware of certain thing in your life such as:

Quote from: Nygeel on March 11, 2010, 02:26:15 PMAh, problem is that I'm not under a doctor's care. I can't afford a doctor. I went to one about a year ago, maybe two years ago. It didn't seem to get anywhere so I stopped wasting my money (I was broke then, too).

And

Quote from: Nygeel on March 12, 2010, 01:57:15 PMbut right now I can barely afford to pay the bills.

You need to sort this situation out and fast, use your support group to help you on this.  Find another job that pays better or find solutions that will bring down your expenses.  So that you can afford the therapist and hormones that you need to achieve what you want in life.  You yourself said, "I think transitioning physically/hormonally would help me with my confidence".  So you have already said in a sense what you need to do.

So to be able to go full time, you need to get a better job to pay for those bills associated with your transition, which will enable you to be read as male outside of your support group, which will improve your confidence immensely.

Two final points, which are relevant to this discussion, one having the legal paper work would help you immensely in your life, but having those papers will not solve your more immediate problem of physically changing your appearance with hormones. Which leads us to the second point, yes there are risks with taking any drugs.  I know I have been taking estrogen for 21 years and I'm prepared to accept those risks.  So accept those risks associated with testosterone and reduce those risks, by changing your lifestyle where possible.

One final thing to consider is, ask your support group, if you really look like a male and ask them to tell you the honest truth.

"So do what YOU feel is right" as Catherine said; because only you will know what to do, to resolve your problems.  I hope this helps you in deciding what you need to do, so that you can go completely full time.  Take care and all the best for the future.

Kindest regards
Sarah B

Catherine: if a piece of paper doesn't make a difference then why do so many trans identified people want these official markers? Why do people get married? A bit of paper means a lot. It's official recognition that I am in fact me. It's something I can show to another person and say "see, I told you I'm a guy." It helps with confidence...which many of us lack before coming out, living part time, or full time.

Sarah B: That's how I feel. That I can't really be full time until I'm read as male without any problems. I'm currently unemployed and have been job hunting. I'm trying to go to interviews and being completely honest: I'm (insert chosen name) but write on my forms that my legal name is something else.

For T, I've been researching it for awhile...the positives and negatives. I have plenty of concerns with T: cardiovascular problems, balding, change in personality, cancer, etc. Then there's the whole "will hormones really truly make me happy?" The only way for me to know for sure is by taking it.

I probably look like a male, but that isn't the same as looking male. There's also the whole looking masculine vs looking male which is a whole other thing.

Top surgery I know I want (I have massive back problems and a huge disproportion with bust size for my frame) but there are concerns about maintaining feeling...all that fun stuff.

I really like the discussion, actually, I also need the similar help and advices on my transition. I see my transition just takes too long, I have been HRT for more than 3 yrs, and I am getting pretty passable as a female(I even had my trachea shave procedure on last Month) and getting problem to pass as male, and my female voice is also becoming passable (even yesterday when I called my bank using my male voice, the guy on the phone ask if I am Miss or Mr. :) ) , BUT, I am still part time, and keep on pushing my the time line of going full time further. Why?  I keep on asking myself. The first thing pop up is that I just dont feel ready in the REAL world.
I don't know why I am so tough on evaluating my readiness,,and so realisticly and logically to control and plan my transition instead of letting my heart to lead (I am a engineer, dose it explain something? ), maybe the uncertainty and potential risks in the real world scare me which make me too careful to move quick. Maybe because I know no matter how strong my heart desire is, I am still live in a real world and fitting into world smoothly is big factor to my long term happiness.  I need to find the balance between what my heart want me to do and what best to fit into the reality world. can some one shine some light here?

Quote from: Valeriedances on March 28, 2010, 07:44:09 AM
I came to understand for myself that we make our own reality. No one is going to make our lives work for us, not our spouse, family, friends or therapist ...to create our reality for us. No one is going to hand our dreams to us and say, 'here you are'. I came to realize that I had to make it happen, I had to create a life that works for me. Thinking I could just show up, announce myself, and it be there was wrong thinking.

So in the end, the big questions are 'What is the loving thing for you to do?'. 'What is in your heart of hearts?'. Who are you deep down?' Once you are clear on that and what your dreams are, then you have power to make it happen. Once I answered those questions, everything else fell into place. Self acceptance is the key, the answer is within. That is the magic ...and my journey has truly been magical.

I completely agree.  I wish I could explain it as well, Valerie. :icon_flower:

I was stopped until I finally completely, deep-down, to my very core accepted myself for what I am and what it means for my life.  Once I did that, it was: Watch Out!  Here she comes! :D

- Kate