Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've been reading Stephen Fry's autobiography Moab is My Washpot.  At one point, in reference to the question, "When did you know you were gay?" he quotes a friend of his saying that on the day of his birth he looked back and thought, "That's the last time I'm going up one of those!"

Of course, I laughed.  But it also reminded me how tough it's likely to be finding a guy who is cool with dating a man with a yoni.  So, how does one find a guy who likes men, but isn't totally squicked by girl parts?  I've considered signing up for bi-dating sites, but a) I'm not bi  and b) I haven't found one that is aimed at people looking for serious relationships, rather than one night hook-ups.  (Not that I've put in a lot of hours searching.  Any recommendations would be appreciated.)  Since I don't drink, the gay bar scene doesn't appeal greatly, though I may give it a shot.  Any other suggestions?

I wish I knew. I'm "totally squicked by girl parts," yet I want a guy who isn't bothered by mine. I think you have to meet people in the usual ways and just get lucky.

Yeah, I completely know what you mean. I want something in a guy (willingness to deal with girl parts) that I'm not exactly able to provide myself (they're icky!) Straight guys, of course, don't have a problem with this, but they don't like men, so when I'm with them I'm being seen as a girl, and they'll lose all interest when I physically transition. Gay guys...I don't even have the nerve to ask, although intellectually I know that some people in our situation have had a lot of success.

I know of a guy who had a profile on Adam4Adam. When he put his...genital status...on the profile, he attracted all the wrong kinds of people. When he didn't, he divulged his status on the first date. Without exception, all of the guys left as soon as they knew. I've never been interested in meeting men online, so I've never used any of these sites. But I've always had the impression that A4A is more of a hookup site than a dating site.

Jamie, would you be open to a relationship with a fellow FTM?

Quote from: Arch on March 27, 2010, 02:41:49 AM

Jamie, would you be open to a relationship with a fellow FTM?

Why?  You offering?  :D ;)

Yes, I would, although he would have to have been on T long enough to look completely male.  I prefer guy parts, but I can deal with girl parts. 

Quote from: Jamie-o on March 27, 2010, 02:47:07 AM
Yes, I would, although he would have to have been on T long enough to look completely male.  I prefer guy parts, but I can deal with girl parts.

Well, I see this as an advantage. Most U.S. trans guys don't seem to have had bottom surgery. So if you can "deal with" female bits, then you are potentially open to a relationship with all kinds of trans guys, pre-op as well as post-op. So...do you know where to meet trans men who are interested in the same things you are?

Quote from: Arch on March 27, 2010, 01:52:22 AM
I wish I knew. I'm "totally squicked by girl parts," yet I want a guy who isn't bothered by mine. I think you have to meet people in the usual ways and just get lucky.

Ditto, except with no particular hatred of female genitalia. Hmm, must suck to be generally disgusted with girl parts and FTM, as opposed to simply hating your own.

Quote from: SilverFang on March 27, 2010, 03:47:24 AM
Hmm, must suck to be generally disgusted with girl parts and FTM, as opposed to simply hating your own.

It wouldn't be such a problem if there were more gay men who didn't mind. But I can't fault them because I'm the same way.

People have told me to seek out bi men. Jamie mentioned this possibility. I'm mainly worried about two things: one, that a bi man will not only be okay with my front hole but will want to use it. That's out of the question. And, two, that he won't see me as a man but as some kind of odd woman.

I'm not looking for a relationship right now, but I worry that I won't be ready if the opportunity arises. Jamie, if you're ready, have you looked for ways to just socialize with gay and bi men? Try a Meetup group, look up social groups in your city's LGBT publications (if there are any), and do the same at your local center (if you have one). For instance, my center has a men's discussion group, a men's game night, a men's vegetarian group, an LGBT writing group, lectures...I hope you're lucky enough to have such options. If you are, explore them and have fun. You never know who you'll meet if you put yourself out there.

While I am squicked by girl parts, I'm not squicked by FTM parts if the guy is on T and smells like a guy.  Girl smell = eew to me (I HATED THAT about myself!!!)  I love masculine men, so a masculine transguy works.  I used to think one of us had to have a working factory issue cock, but that is not the case any more esp. if the guy is a keeper in other respects. :)

A guy here said that there are plenty of guys who don't  mind, because the rest of the masculine package is there.

I'm in the same boat. Haven't yet disclosed to any of the gay men I've met, as I haven't pursued dating/sex/relationships with them.  I'm still working on becoming one of the guys, and loving it.  Ditto to Arch's suggestion about men's groups.  That's what I'm doing at the moment, just getting out there as a guy, and as a gay guy.


Jay

Quote from: Arch on March 27, 2010, 06:03:24 AM
It wouldn't be such a problem if there were more gay men who didn't mind. But I can't fault them because I'm the same way.

Ditto.

Quote from: sneakersjay on March 27, 2010, 07:32:37 AM
While I am squicked by girl parts, I'm not squicked by FTM parts if the guy is on T and smells like a guy. 

FTM parts--I like how you phrase that.

... bisexual/pansexual blokes area into blokes and not squicked by girl-bits..

Quote from: Miniar on March 27, 2010, 09:02:31 PM
... bisexual/pansexual blokes area into blokes and not squicked by girl-bits..

But how do you find bi/pan guys?  In my experience, they don't tend to advertise as readily as gays or straights because they get crap from both sides.  Any suggestions where to look? 

Quote from: Jamie-o on March 27, 2010, 09:06:29 PM
But how do you find bi/pan guys?  In my experience, they don't tend to advertise as readily as gays or straights because they get crap from both sides.  Any suggestions where to look?

Found mine in an irc room. it just got mentioned as a "no big deal" sorta thing. is a "no big deal" sorta thing to us both.
I'm pan too myself.

I'm gay. And I gave up looking for any type of guy to date

..I know, not helpful, but no gay guy is going to want to get near me. So..I don't know

I really lucked out and met a friend of a friend who turned out to be pan.  Unfortunately that doesn't mean I have any advice on how to find a pan guy.  Except for maybe...  Don't be afraid to meet new people.  Put yourself out there, and other people will feel comfortable being open with you as well.

Personally, I gave up the expectation of being intermate with other people as a consequence of transition. Not that I made a habit of it before transition anyway :laugh:

Mens groups are great for being social, but I wouldn't out myself to anyone from one. One rejection, one fight, one mistake and BAM. Your status is out, everyone knows, and you're excommunicated (or worse, tolerated and patronized). At the very least, I'd refrain from making one the basis of my social circle.

I do think that (post-T) FTM parts are different to girl parts. They smell different, look different and react different.  They're more a hybrid between the two (not that I'm experaniced with a wide array of parts or anything).

I'd do a post-T FTM, so long as they were just a regular sort of guy. I'm not into overly flaming guys, or guys trying too hard to be overly macho. if he were my type in other respects, the FTM thing wouldn't matter.

Quote from: Teknoir on March 28, 2010, 12:38:01 AM
Mens groups are great for being social, but I wouldn't out myself to anyone from one. One rejection, one fight, one mistake and BAM. Your status is out, everyone knows, and you're excommunicated (or worse, tolerated and patronized). At the very least, I'd refrain from making one the basis of my social circle.

I hope to minimize the risk by not coming on to any man at a group I want to keep attending. I plan to use my group connections for networking, meeting other men. And then see if I find anyone I'm interested in. I wouldn't out myself unless it looked like things were going somewhere serious.

It's also good to get involved in groups that aren't necessarily queer. If you're interested in manga, join a couple of manga groups. Or try something new that you're interested in. You never know whom you'll meet. But be patient and be careful.

There is a dating site for FtMs.  I have asked Susan for permission to post the link; I'm curious to know what your opinions are.  I don't have an account there, not currently being on the market, so I've nothing more to add at this time.

As for finding someone who likes FtMs enough to date one... I've met two, besides myself.  We don't have any identifying characteristics: we're liberal and conservative, macho and average, rich and poor, blue- and white-collar, just in that group alone.  We're all, obviously, at least somewhat bisexual.

- N

Quote from: Arch on March 27, 2010, 01:52:22 AM
I wish I knew. I'm "totally squicked by girl parts," yet I want a guy who isn't bothered by mine. I think you have to meet people in the usual ways and just get lucky.

Quote from: SilverFang on March 27, 2010, 03:47:24 AM
Ditto, except with no particular hatred of female genitalia. Hmm, must suck to be generally disgusted with girl parts and FTM, as opposed to simply hating your own.

Actually, that's exactly what 'squicked' is supposed to mean.  It's supposed to imply that you're not being hateful about it.

For example, someone could say 'gay sex disgusts me' which implies that the person has some level of hatred/prejudice towards gay people.

On the other hand, someone can say 'gay sex squicks me out' which is supposed to imply that the person doesn't have anything against gay people, but that the idea of gay sex makes them extremely uncomfortable.

A more verbose explanation:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squick (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squick)

Quote from: Nimetön on March 28, 2010, 02:05:36 AM
There is a dating site for FtMs.  I have asked Susan for permission to post the link; I'm curious to know what your opinions are.  I don't have an account there, not currently being on the market, so I've nothing more to add at this time.

Susan has permitted the matter; the site is called "Love my FtM" and may be found via Google.

- N

Quote from: Ketsy on March 28, 2010, 02:53:55 AM
Actually, that's exactly what 'squicked' is supposed to mean.  It's supposed to imply that you're not being hateful about it.

For example, someone could say 'gay sex disgusts me' which implies that the person has some level of hatred/prejudice towards gay people.

On the other hand, someone can say 'gay sex squicks me out' which is supposed to imply that the person doesn't have anything against gay people, but that the idea of gay sex makes them extremely uncomfortable.

A more verbose explanation:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squick (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squick)

I don't see the point of this.

Quote from: Arch on March 28, 2010, 01:32:37 AM
I hope to minimize the risk by not coming on to any man at a group I want to keep attending. I plan to use my group connections for networking, meeting other men. And then see if I find anyone I'm interested in. I wouldn't out myself unless it looked like things were going somewhere serious.

It's also good to get involved in groups that aren't necessarily queer. If you're interested in manga, join a couple of manga groups. Or try something new that you're interested in. You never know whom you'll meet. But be patient and be careful.

This.


Jay

Quote from: Arch on March 28, 2010, 01:32:37 AM
I hope to minimize the risk by not coming on to any man at a group I want to keep attending. I plan to use my group connections for networking, meeting other men. And then see if I find anyone I'm interested in. I wouldn't out myself unless it looked like things were going somewhere serious.

Sensible way to go about it.

I think dating in the primary part of your social circle is a bad idea, even if you aren't trans. Creates too much drama. I think the key to increasing your chances of finding dateable people is to increase your circle of "extended" aquaintences.

Quote from: Teknoir on March 28, 2010, 09:18:37 AM
I think dating in the primary part of your social circle is a bad idea, even if you aren't trans. Creates too much drama.

You're not kidding. Our men's coming out group advises that guys in the group not get sexually involved with other guys in the group. I feel that this is a good guideline. My trans coming out group did not establish such a prohibition until after a friend of mine got involved with someone else in the group and the relationship went haywire. Then both parties felt weird about going to a group that was giving them support at a critical point in their lives. I love my buddy, but I had to listen to endless talk about the relationship and how awkward it was that the other guy was in the community and going to the groups and should my buddy go or not because he knew the other guy needed the group, and...and...and...bleah.)

In my gay men's discussion group (which doesn't prohibit people from getting involved with other group members), I actually make it an ironclad rule for myself. It came in handy when a creepy new guy from the group started hitting on me. I'm starting to get that vibe about another creepy guy as well...I'm doing everything I can to appear uninterested, and if he makes a move, I'll just tell him that I don't get involved with past or current members of the group. (I specifically mention past members because sometimes people like to stop and start, and I wouldn't want to close off any avenues for them...yeah, that's just an excuse. I don't want some guy quitting the group just so he can get a date with me. Maybe I flatter myself, but I'm pretty wary after that first fellow seemed so keen. I mean, he was telling the waitress that he was hoping to "get lucky" tonight. ::) And he was talking about me.)

Best to be safe.

Quote from: Nimetön on March 28, 2010, 02:05:36 AM
We're all, obviously, at least somewhat bisexual.

Ah, yes, I was going to ask about this and forgot. What exactly do you mean by "bisexual"? Capable of having sex with males and females, or sexually attracted to both males and females? 'Cause if it's the first, well, yes, it is obvious. If the second, I would tend to disagree. I'm not in the least sexually attracted to women. And believe me, I have tried.

Quote from: Arch on March 28, 2010, 09:28:37 PM
Ah, yes, I was going to ask about this and forgot. What exactly do you mean by "bisexual"? Capable of having sex with males and females, or sexually attracted to both males and females? 'Cause if it's the first, well, yes, it is obvious. If the second, I would tend to disagree. I'm not in the least sexually attracted to women. And believe me, I have tried.

I think he was talking about guys who are into trans men, not people in general.

When encountering a binary dilemma of interpretation, act according to your priorities.  If you wish to understand the statement in context, choose the interpretation consistent with previous results.  If you're just spoiling for a fight, choose the alternate.

- N

Quote from: Nimetön on March 28, 2010, 09:47:50 PM
When encountering a binary dilemma of interpretation, act according to your priorities.  If you wish to understand the statement in context, choose the interpretation consistent with previous results.  If you're just spoiling for a fight, choose the alternate.

Okay, I'm a dodo. It was the way I read the sentence about liberal/conservative and rich/poor and all of that, plus the sentence that followed. You suddenly seemed to be talking about a much larger group, like FTMs in general or something like that. So it seems that this group of three is very diverse. Cool.

And I should tell you that I am rarely, if ever, spoiling for a fight. The T hasn't messed me up THAT much.

P.S. Please remember that I'm accustomed to reading student writing. When I encounter someone who articulately says what he means, I just have no idea what to do with that. >:-)

Quote from: Arch on March 28, 2010, 10:32:31 PM
P.S. Please remember that I'm accustomed to reading student writing. When I encounter someone who articulately says what he means, I just have no idea what to do with that. >:-)

This is hilarious.  Yes, I understand entirely.

On another subtopic, I am very curious hear opinions on "Love my FtM."

- N

Quote from: Nimetön on March 28, 2010, 10:52:25 PM
On another subtopic, I am very curious hear opinions on "Love my FtM."

I don't think there's any prohibition about starting a topic about a dating site...I've seen topics about Mango and commercial sites.

And if you put it in a sufficiently provocative subject line, you might pique people's interest and get them to check out the site.

Quote from: Arch on March 28, 2010, 11:03:23 PM
I don't think there's any prohibition about starting a topic about a dating site...I've seen topics about Mango and commercial sites.

And if you put it in a sufficiently provocative subject line, you might pique people's interest and get them to check out the site.

Susan is allowing me to refer to a dating site as it is.  If I 'titillate' in the process, I suspect that she would consider it an imposition upon her tolerance.

I'll start the topic as soon as I'm done with the meeting that I am currently sitting in.

- N

P.S. I'd titillate an ocelot, if only I knew how.

Quote from: Nimetön on March 28, 2010, 11:17:49 PM
P.S. I'd titillate an ocelot, if only I knew how.

I think it would take an ofelot to titillate an ocelot.

Quote from: Arch on March 29, 2010, 12:55:00 AM
I think it would take an ofelot to titillate an ocelot.

I would have said you needed a blue whale.

(Cue the sirens! -10 points! :laugh:)

Quote from: Nimetön on March 28, 2010, 10:52:25 PM
On another subtopic, I am very curious hear opinions on "Love my FtM."

Is it still being actively developed?

All in all, looks like a nice little project. They do need to get the "word out" to expand their userbase though. And perhaps expand their site to cater to "friend making" as well as dating - widen the appeal to pull more users in.

Take into account this is the opinion of someone who has never so much as looked at the front page of a dating site before, let alone had an account. So my opinion could be way off.