Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Yes, it's one of those hair loss threads that circulates around here every so often.

I haven't even had any hair loss while on T, some hair actually filled in on my hairline and it looks like it might be continuing to do so albeit slowly compared to the first time. They are new hairs, I've seen them grow from little baby hairs into long ones that cover up, but only the right temple. It's still only 3 and a half months in, but I've seen guys have their hairline shift early on and then it stops... at least for the time being as far as we know currently.

So my problem doesn't have anything to do with current loss because that isn't the case. My problem is that I'm still paranoid over it and knowing me, this isn't going to go away until the proposed problem is solved or dealt with. I just can't shut it off. On my dad's side, him and three of his brothers ended up losing their hair, two have full heads of hair and one has thin hair but not really a bald spot. My grandpa on this side went bald as well and I have no clue what my mother's side is like. For all I know they could all have full heads of hair or they could be bald too.

Now, from the little knowledge that I do have, both men and women have to look to both parents to get an idea if their hair will thin/go bald. Women typically, at the worst case, thin out in the case of genetic hairloss. Men tend to go bald or thin out if that's what genetics dictate.

I've also heard that it's more than just one thing that could cause genetic hairloss. On top of that I've heard that FTMs have a lower risk, but is that really the case if we're putting something into our bodies that could cause baldness? Women have a lower chance of genetic hairloss(thinning) in comparison to men, but is that because of low testosterone or is it simply genetic makeup? I thought I had a good idea about how this went down but the more I hear, "the more people in your family who go bald the more likely you are to." really unnerves me. I've also looked at some FTMs who have been on T for 6-10 years and a lot of them are going bald, though I don't have a big sample to base that off of.

I know, if it happens I could shave it off and some people look good bald. I don't think I'm the type who would look good bald but honestly, what bothers me even more is looking more like my dad. I hate my dad, I don't want anything to do with him, including having a shaven head.

I've been wondering about this, myself. I'd look terrible, bald.

I wonder if saw palmetto tincture (as a scalp rinse) would help maintain hair, or later into therapy, taking them as supplements. Dunno if it's snake oil or if it's worth trying.

Then there's Propecia, a medical grade DHT blocker. Of course we wouldn't want to take this early in our therapy since we want DHT to help masculinize our bodies. But is this a possibilty, later on?

I know one guy stopped taking T once he got a bald spot on the back of his head. He will be getting a hysto soon and will no longer continue hormones. If it comes to the point where you have too much hairloss that would be an option. Maybe not the best option, but an option.

Quote from: M.Grimm on May 18, 2010, 12:35:10 AM
I've been wondering about this, myself. I'd look terrible, bald.

I wonder if saw palmetto tincture (as a scalp rinse) would help maintain hair, or later into therapy, taking them as supplements. Dunno if it's snake oil or if it's worth trying.

Then there's Propecia, a medical grade DHT blocker. Of course we wouldn't want to take this early in our therapy since we want DHT to help masculinize our bodies. But is this a possibilty, later on?

I've heard propecia is bad and has the potential to cause sexual dysfunction but that could be a load of crap for all I know.

Quote from: Nygeel on May 18, 2010, 12:35:18 AM
I know one guy stopped taking T once he got a bald spot on the back of his head. He will be getting a hysto soon and will no longer continue hormones. If it comes to the point where you have too much hairloss that would be an option. Maybe not the best option, but an option.

I've considered this, but I heard somewhere you'd need to take hormones after a hysto. I enjoy all the side effects from T, even the ones people find unpleasant(I don't care what anyone says, butt hair is awesome.) It's just the possibility of losing hair that bothers me, y'know?

I guess with a hysto there would be a great chance of the changes sticking, but if I have to go on hormones as a definite it may cause problems.

Quote from: Lachlann on May 18, 2010, 12:52:03 AM

I've considered this, but I heard somewhere you'd need to take hormones after a hysto. I enjoy all the side effects from T, even the ones people find unpleasant(I don't care what anyone says, butt hair is awesome.) It's just the possibility of losing hair that bothers me, y'know?

I guess with a hysto there would be a great chance of the changes sticking, but if I have to go on hormones as a definite it may cause problems.

You might not need to take hormones after a hysto. What it will do is stop the progress. So if you've got a hairy butt after 3 years of  T and a bald spot making you freak out then the butt hair won't leave, and the balding would stop or slow down.

Quote from: Nygeel on May 18, 2010, 12:56:04 AM
You might not need to take hormones after a hysto. What it will do is stop the progress. So if you've got a hairy butt after 3 years of  T and a bald spot making you freak out then the butt hair won't leave, and the balding would stop or slow down.

Ah, alright. That was originally an option I had planned out, so if I can have a hysto and be able to stop hormones then that's a good option I think.

Quote from: Lachlann on May 18, 2010, 01:00:22 AM
Ah, alright. That was originally an option I had planned out, so if I can have a hysto and be able to stop hormones then that's a good option I think.

If you have no ovaries, you will have to take hormones. Not dependent on the uterus. Hysterectomy only would stop menstruation though.

Quote from: SilverFang on May 18, 2010, 01:46:46 AM
If you have no ovaries, you will have to take hormones. Not dependent on the uterus. Hysterectomy only would stop menstruation though.

Interesting,  very interesting.


I've been lurking around on an FTM LJ and did a search on hair-loss and there might be more reason to worry. Before, I hadn't run into many FTMs who had complete male hair pattern baldness, but at the same time most of them hadn't been on T for more than 2-3 years.

Now granted it might be that because I was literally looking for hair-loss topics that I'd naturally run into the ones that are losing their hair, but one them started saying that in a group of about 40 transmen, he and another guy were the only ones that didn't go bald. The other guy who didn't go bald was taking propecia.

In another topic, someone thought that maybe going on T would make the gene dominant rather than recessive. In the same topic someone linked a book on FTMs and it talked about hair loss and T:

"Hair
The androgenic effect on hair follicles of the face and scalp is mainly due to the more
potent androgen, DHT. However, testosterone alone is sufficient to stimulate male pattern
growth of axillary and pubic hair.28 Testosterone is irreversibly converted (within hair
follicles) by Type II-5-a-Reductase to DHT. With androgen therapy in transmen as with
cisgender men, genetics primarily determines how much hair will develop (and where) as
well as whether androgenic alopecia (male pattern baldness, MPB) will develop.
Thinning of scalp hair is related to duration of testosterone therapy and is present in
approximately fifty percent of transmen after thirteen years on hormonal therapy.29"

Which really makes me wonder. Granted, the other two come from anecdotal evidence and trying to use biology to the best of their knowledge, so it could just simply be false, but the pdf. book really had me wondering. I've also been noticing a lot of people still seem to think that genetic men don't have to watch both sides of their families, and yet a lot of doctors that I've been reading about have said that it's not true. Of course, they said that there's probably more to it than just DHT, but it's one way to gauge it.

This is really becoming fascinating. My original plan was just to go on T for a while to get most of the desired changes and get a hysto, and now that it seems possible again hair-loss seems slightly less frightening. I can see the benefits of being on T for the rest of your life, but it may save money and hassle to just go on it for a certain amount of time.

What about hair restoration through Bosley or something?

Haha, was watching an infomercial for them the other night so immediately thought of it...but seriously, in the event that there is hair loss, if stopping the hormones is something you feel iffy about then maybe this could be an option? Anyone look into it?

Please tell me if I've missed something but...

Pretty sure you need A HORMONE either one if you're not producing it naturally. Due to things like osteoporosis etc. So if you stop T and have your ovaries out you need some outside source. But I have read that if you stop T and have a hysto but keep your ovaries - some of the changes 'change' again - like hair becomes softer and obviously the non permanent changes shift back too... I could be wrong I apologise if I'm stating the obvious just my 2c.

As for the male pattern baldness (once again don't quote me) is carried on the X chromosome yeah - so bio guys get that from their mum which is why they say to look at your mother's father for an idea if you will or won't lose your hair. But for us its a little different as we have 2 X chromosomes - but I am unsure if the male pattern baldness gene is dominant or recessive - if its recessive and its on one of your X chromosomes - the dominant gene that says you keep your hair on the other X should override it...

Make any sense?? It did in my head - like I said I could be completely wrong and would love to hear what others are thinking or have heard - because I don't really like the idea of going bald either lol!!!

Cheers,

Jay

I heard the same as Jay. If MPB is on both x's then you are going bald, if on one you may or may not.

Ditto, I've heard the same as Jay. Since osteoporosis runs in my mums side of the family there is no way I'd stop hormones if I have a hysto. I'm not saying its a dead cert that either would happen but I'd rather be bald than have brittle bones if I was given the choice.

Hormones aren't just for your looks.  If you have none at all it could cause quite a bit of problems.

Quote from: Aussie Jay on May 18, 2010, 05:53:38 AMAs for the male pattern baldness (once again don't quote me) is carried on the X chromosome yeah - so bio guys get that from their mum which is why they say to look at your mother's father for an idea if you will or won't lose your hair. But for us its a little different as we have 2 X chromosomes - but I am unsure if the male pattern baldness gene is dominant or recessive - if its recessive and its on one of your X chromosomes - the dominant gene that says you keep your hair on the other X should override it...

MPB, from what I understand, can be inherited by either mother or father. Pre-mature baldness is thought to be X-linked and other genes that aren't sex linked are said to be involved as well. Apparently 5-alpha reductase is responsible for converting testosterone to DHT and men who suffer from androgenic alopecia(MPB) tend to have high levels of 5-alpha reductase. It's a correlation, but I'm not sure if it causes it, but stuff like propecia are used to block or restrain DHT and according to propecia's site, 86% of men see results from it which means the rest might not be from DHT levels at all or their body simply doesn't take to it. It's all very confusing. For women it's thought to be linked to higher testosterone levels, but most women who suffer from it have normal testosterone levels.

Apparently the gene carried on X that causes baldness is recessive. So in the case of that, I hope my mother's side have full heads of hair. I wish there were an easy way of knowing.

This is becoming really really confusing, though. A simple way of looking at it would be to say it's carried on X, but apparently there are non-sex genes that can cause it.

You guys do know that a hysto doesn't have to remove the glands that produce estrogen. If those are still working then no, you won't get brittle bones. You won't have to take hormones.

I don't think there is any way to prevent what your body is genetically programmed to do, and there is no way to know for sure if you're going bald or not.

My ex's dad is bald, his older brother is bald like dad, but my ex and his 2 other brothers have late bald spots rather than male pattern baldness like dad.

I figure I'd rather be male and bald than F with a full head of hair.  Unfortunately we don't get to choose our genetics.  If baldness is that unpleasant for you (as it is for many other guys) that's what Hair Club and all those other hair restoration companies are for (that and hair transplants etc).


Jay

Quote from: sneakersjay on May 18, 2010, 02:30:53 PM
I figure I'd rather be male and bald than F with a full head of hair.

I totally agree.  I love my hair (tried to keep it "perfect" when presenting as female), but if I go bald, it'll be okay.  Because I'll be a bald male.  A male.  Being a female with great hair isn't as amazing as being a male and taking with it all the consequences, including the possibly of MPB.

I will admit, I started to worry when I noticed my hair line receding.  But then I realized that it was just taking on a more masculine pattern.  I still have baby hairs coming in, so I should be okay for a while.  When/if I do go bald, I will accept it.

Honestly, I'm just dealing with this in the same way I would if I were born physically male, lol. It's true, I chose to get on testosterone because I felt suicidal and it was the last option, but I still have another potential problem to deal with. I wish I were one of those guys who didn't care if my hair fell out or not, but I've had years and years of studying and thinking about testosterone before I even got to touch it and my mind still hasn't changed. I guess I'm just like one of those genetic guys who go into depression or freak out over it. Maybe I'll grow out of it, who knows?

Most of the stuff they have out there is actually effective before you've lost all of your hair, because you can't really save dead follicles. At least they're dabbling with regrowing follicles with stem cells(hey it works on bald mice) and it's supposed to be ready within 10 years at the most, which is theoretically 8 since it started around two years ago.

Hopefully I don't lose it at all, I don't want to be handed another short-stick in life. If not, I guess they'll eventually cure going bald, lol.

Quote from: Nygeel on May 18, 2010, 11:43:47 AM
You guys do know that a hysto doesn't have to remove the glands that produce estrogen. If those are still working then no, you won't get brittle bones. You won't have to take hormones.

But you'd be running on oestrogen was my point..

One word: Rogaine. It's topical, has few side effects, and has proven to either halt hair loss or regrow hair in 90% of guys who use it. That's what I'm counting on, considering my dad went bald at 17, both my older brothers are bald, and one of my mother's two brothers is. My hair started thinning significantly after about 8 months on T. However, it's still at about the same place now, at about 2 years, as it was then. Don't worry, Lachlann. There are plenty of remedies to hair loss, but there's really only one thing to cure FtM (lol).

SD

That's true, I still have several options and at least they're a lot better than they were 10 years ago.

I have the same problem.  My dad went bald in his 20s and my hair is already really thin.  I really don't want to go bald because I like my hair and I don't like my dad, and don't want to look like him either. 

If I go on T I think I'd just stay on long enough for a voice and facial change.  A hysterectomy could fix the other problem.

Male baldness isn't solely a sex linked characteristic (X or Y chromosome), it's actually passed down via non- sex linked chromosomes (autosomes) which both parents randomly contribute. So you can inherit it from either side of your family. Also there was a recent German study (Hillmer et al, American Journal of Human Genetics, July 2005) that found a similarity in androgen receptor (AR) genes in balding men.. and while AR are found on the X chromosomes... You have to also consider that there are about 1,000 genes that are X-linked, and most are conditions that predominantly afflict cisgendered males. This is because they have XY chromosomes, in women (or those born genetically female) a recessive abnormality on one X chromosome usually is masked by a dominant normal gene on the other. I don't see how there could be a disproportionate number of transmen who go bald, such as the 38 of 40 figure that was given. Unless they were already genetically dominant for going bald or they really weren't suffering from androgenetic alopecia (pattern baldness).. but rather from hair loss due to hormonal changes. But even this should correct itself and grow back, unless it's due to an overproduction of testosterone.

Quote from: Evan on May 19, 2010, 01:04:20 AM
Male baldness isn't solely a sex linked characteristic (X or Y chromosome), it's actually passed down via non- sex linked chromosomes (autosomes) which both parents randomly contribute. So you can inherit it from either side of your family. Also there was a recent German study (Hillmer et al, American Journal of Human Genetics, July 2005) that found a similarity in androgen receptor (AR) genes in balding men.. and while AR are found on the X chromosomes... You have to also consider that there are about 1,000 genes that are X-linked, and most are conditions that predominantly afflict cisgendered males. This is because they have XY chromosomes, in women (or those born genetically female) a recessive abnormality on one X chromosome usually is masked by a dominant normal gene on the other. I don't see how there could be a disproportionate number of transmen who go bald, such as the 38 of 40 figure that was given. Unless they were already genetically dominant for going bald or they really weren't suffering from androgenetic alopecia (pattern baldness).. but rather from hair loss due to hormonal changes. But even this should correct itself and grow back, unless it's due to an overproduction of testosterone.

Well that's a bit of a relief. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

Quote from: Lachlann on May 18, 2010, 12:52:03 AM
I've heard propecia is bad and has the potential to cause sexual dysfunction but that could be a load of crap for all I know.


I've considered this, but I heard somewhere you'd need to take hormones after a hysto. I enjoy all the side effects from T, even the ones people find unpleasant(I don't care what anyone says, butt hair is awesome.) It's just the possibility of losing hair that bothers me, y'know?

I guess with a hysto there would be a great chance of the changes sticking, but if I have to go on hormones as a definite it may cause problems.

Can I just say that I'm glad you love your butt hair! :D This is completely awesome how very positive you are about what some guys would consider negative.


I can totally related to not wanting to be anything like a horrid sperm donor (Mine doesn't deserve the title of "father" ) and Honestly.... You could always do something cool and get a mohawk instead of a full shave :)

Or, just keep in mind that you're going to be a better man than he ever was.

Much love,
Kiss

Quote from: kisschittybangbang on May 19, 2010, 02:05:00 AM
Can I just say that I'm glad you love your butt hair! :D This is completely awesome how very positive you are about what some guys would consider negative.


I can totally related to not wanting to be anything like a horrid sperm donor (Mine doesn't deserve the title of "father" ) and Honestly.... You could always do something cool and get a mohawk instead of a full shave :)

Or, just keep in mind that you're going to be a better man than he ever was.

Much love,
Kiss

Hahaha, honestly the only thing I find negative physically that men can potentially get is going bald(aside from illnesses or whatever). Everything else I think is awesome.

Hah! Sperm donor, I like that one, I actually think it fits rather well in my case. I think mohawks are awesome as well, but hopefully I still have hair to do it. Wouldn't it be awesome if complete male pattern baldness instead just gave you a mohawk? I've actually pondered how cool that would be often.

It's true, there's always just being a better man than him. And I've been noticing that I'm starting to look a lot more like my own person and also a lot more like my mother as opposed to my father. Who knows, maybe I'm more like my mom than I originally thought.

I'm starting to feel a lot better about this. Losing hair still sucks and I still don't want it to happen because I like it, but there's still a chance I wont and even if I do at least there are more choices to deal with it and I don't look nearly as much like him anymore.

Well yeah! We can't forget that your dear momma had part in your facial genetics! Oh! As for the mohawk thing... I notice that most men do have kind of temple balding spots. (My step father is a guy who has this pattern of male balding) THAT'S where I got the mohawk idea. And if you get a spot, you can always transplant butt hair to your head. :) You've seen those commercials.

If it were just the temples I'd be absolutely fine with it.

Haha, butt hair on my head, I don't think I'll grow enough to do that.

@lachlann you're welcome. I had the same fears myself a few years ago when I started losing hair because both of my mom's parents had some baldness.. thankfully it was just stress in my case. hair or no hair though being bald is like anything else, it's all in how you work it.