Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I've heard of a disturbing story of a girl that committed suicide do to being "belittled" by her own "so to speak own kind"!

This woman was a MTF, one of the sites and/or groups she was in contact with said she wasn't a "True" woman, or something to that effect. I only heard about it, not sure if it's true. I believe it is because evil lives even amongst neighbors!

To you "ELITE", You're just as bad as the women that have no feminine qualities to down a sister like that! Just because she had no money or her views varied slightly out of focus of YOUR norm you condemned her!

SCREW YOU!

Get it in every crowd, the "BETTER THAN YOU" attitude. Hey! Dumb *&%#, you came from the same place!

Hi
I think most of us have no place for elitist people. Also in the TSO we are careful at Susan's to allow people to be themselves, without the hideous insults of  I'm more/better TG than you etc.
I can understand your concern.

Thank You

Cindy

I see certain types of elitism as essential. When they break down, we get presidents like Bush II.

Bigotry is a different story altogether.

Quote from: Arch on May 23, 2010, 04:28:14 AM
I see certain types of elitism as essential. When they break down, we get presidents like Bush II.

Bigotry is a different story altogether.

How would elitism have prevented Baby Bush?  He went to Yale because his daddy was an alumni, was a Bonesman, and rode his dad's coat-tails into the presidency.  It seems to me elitism worked pretty much in his favor.  I'm not saying you're wrong.  I'm just trying to understand your logic, or how you see elitism as having broken down in this case.

ScarboroughFair -  Sorry to hi-jack your thread!  I agree with you, though.  That's one reason I hang out at Susan's.  There's a lot less snobbery here, and for the most part it is not put up with.

I have met one of these 'elites'. Recently at a TG party. Out of the blue she stated there is only one transsexual in the whole group of girls that were there. My jaw dropped and I became a bit upset at her. This was from a 'transsexual' who is choosing not to have surgery due to her job and that she likes her male parts. I told her she didn't know what she was talking about because the girl that hosts the party is most definitely transsexual. She said no she isn't (this is my friend we are talking about!) she isn't on hormones. I said she has been on hormones for 10 years. And I told her I was a transsexual. And then pointed to another girl who is also on HRT.

These people can be VERY dangerous. They try to play therapist when they are totally unqualified. Needless to say she is on my ->-bleeped-<- list now and I have no intentions of ever talking to her again.

Basically people like that are just trying to bloster their own ego's by putting other people down which is rather sad.

There is a huge difference between the fact that gender clinics have to screen people to weed out those few for whom a transition might not be the right step, and someone unqualified and with no real knowlege of the circumstances of another persons life taking it upon themselves to judge those around them.

The one is a necessary part of diagnosis, the other is just plain arrogant and rude! Such people are best avoided.

To me, people are what they say they are, until conclusively proven different.

Thank you for posting this Scarbourghfair.

It's a reminder that we do need to continually offer support to others.

The lonliness and isolation that this young girl must have been feeling when she took that terrible decision is somehting that most of us can identify with and which each of us, I'm sure, will be more than ready to help with.

Equally, each of us needs to be prepared for cruel and nasty people who seek to justify their own inadequacies at the expense of others.

Quote from: Dana Lane on May 23, 2010, 05:45:54 AM
a 'transsexual' who is choosing not to have surgery due to she likes her male parts.

I'm a member of this kind of transsexual, I hope I'm still 100% girl.... :( I think it's really pitiful if some transsexuals (and girls) have to use their post-op (non-op, if GG) gentalia in order to prove that theyre a woman.. Every time when I think "Girls should have vaginas.." I think about everything about my body and mind and they make up the other 99% of me, I always remember that a vagina is the last thing that is on display and is infact supposed to be hidden.. XD

I don't know if I'm coherent with my thoughts on this, I'm just trying to say that I think One's genitals shouldn't be subject of conversation or be used as evidence or proof of anything.. What I got between my (very large) thighs is the business of my boyfriend, only <3

I think it was Calpernia Adams who said that it was very rude to ask someone of their privates, like you wouldn't ask a GG on the street if she has a vagina or not.... :\

Quote from: Little Dragon on May 23, 2010, 07:33:05 AM
I'm a member of this kind of transsexual, I hope I'm still 100% girl.... :( I think it's really pitiful if some transsexuals (and girls) have to use their post-op (non-op, if GG) gentalia in order to prove that theyre a woman.. Every time when I think "Girls should have vaginas.." I think about everything about my body and mind and they make up the other 99% of me, I always remember that a vagina is the last thing that is on display and is infact supposed to be hidden.. XD

I don't know if I'm coherent with my thoughts on this, I'm just trying to say that I think One's genitals shouldn't be subject of conversation or be used as evidence or proof of anything.. What I got between my (very large) thighs is the business of my boyfriend, only <3

I think it was Calpernia Adams who said that it was very rude to ask someone of their privates, like you wouldn't ask a GG on the street if she has a vagina or not.... :\

She volunteered this information to me. I did not ask her anything! And I realize that there are many flavors of being a transsexual. But I just found it odd that she considers herself a true transsexual but not the other girls after telling me her story. I didn't mean to offend anyone. Just stating the facts as she told me.

It is attitudes like that which can drive some of us to have surgeries that are unnessesary for that individule.
If you can maintain you status as female happily and retain your factory issued parts then why get GRS?
Also suicide is not far from anyone trans's thoughts. We have a dismal suicide rate. If you bag on a fellow ->-bleeped-<- you might just be the person who is figurtively loading the gun for the victim.

Quote from: Dana Lane on May 23, 2010, 07:53:29 AM
She volunteered this information to me. I did not ask her anything! And I realize that there are many flavors of being a transsexual. But I just found it odd that she considers herself a true transsexual but not the other girls after telling me her story. I didn't mean to offend anyone. Just stating the facts as she told me.

Yeyeye, I was talking about how she brought the girls genitals into the conversation ;D And then generalised.

I think what you'll find as you become more involved in the "community" is that typically the people who do the most talking about and justifying their own "transness" or womanhood or reasons they are more "something" than someone else are the ones that probably are the furthest from what they are claiming. "I'm the only REAL transwoman here!" Lol, I would hope you would just laugh at their ridiculousness and move to another group of people at the party. People like that are better off sitting in a corner like that weird uncle who talks to himself (no gender mix intended, but it's always the weird uncle, never the weird aunt, lol) and has no one to relate to.

I think it's similar to being in grade school and little Tommy always grabs things and takes them from you. Usually if Tommy can't grow up and play nice and learn how to get along with people he usually ends up torturing little animals and smelling like alcohol and urine in some holding cell in the middle of nowhere. But I digress...

Don't let others get under your skin ESPECIALLY when they are talking about themselves or anyone else being more "anything" than anyone else. Everyone one of us are people and to take a self-identified thing like gender identity and claim that you are more or less something due to xyz reasons is laughable. People can say they are anything but there is usually a reason (like expected validation) behind what they are saying :) Meghan

I do not want to be a woman, but who I am, myself.

Barbie~~

People who claim to be "true" _________ (fill in the blank) are oftentimes nothing more than attention seeking, braindead idiots.

Quote from: Laura91 on May 23, 2010, 11:24:39 AM
People who claim to be "true" _________ (fill in the blank) are oftentimes nothing more than attention seeking, braindead idiots.

Hehe, also, people who clain that theyre a "true" ________ (fill in blank) means that in their minds, they don't think theyre convincingly (blank) and need to state that they are (blank) in order to make up for it ;D

I think that crap stems from a desperate desire to not be seen as trans or 'one of those people. ' It is a primal fear of regection by society. If they can sell it that some trans are really truely their gender of association and other trans are not they can associate themselves as part of the cool kids group so to speak.
Not a very healthy or inwardly honest position to take.
I would assume if I heard this kinda crap that the person saying it has a self esteem issue.
Also this position is a dividing tactic and when we are curently fighting for our very rights. I think that every member of the trans umbrela needs to not participate in infighting and provide a united front.
We can sort out who is trans and who is a pervert after we get our rights, until then even if I hate your guts, if you are trans you are my dear and beloved ally.

Quote from: Jamie-o on May 23, 2010, 05:08:29 AM
How would elitism have prevented Baby Bush?  He went to Yale because his daddy was an alumni, was a Bonesman, and rode his dad's coat-tails into the presidency.  It seems to me elitism worked pretty much in his favor.  I'm not saying you're wrong.  I'm just trying to understand your logic, or how you see elitism as having broken down in this case.

That's why I said "certain types of elitism." The presidency should go to the person best qualified for the job--or one of the people who are best suited. When financial elitism wins out over an elitism based on intelligence, knowledge, common sense, and relevant experience, then you've got a problem.

I see trans elitism, in various forms, all over the place, and it's almost always simple bigotry based on closed-mindedness, sour grapes, self-loathing prompted by fear of societal reprobation (as Cynthialee observes), or (wait for it) financial elitism. With the last one, people who can afford surgery look down on those who can't. No wonder so many of us don't survive; we're even shunned by those who are most similar to us in the way that marks us as most different from society at large.

The same social glue that holds a tribe together also impels people to evict others from the tribe. It's not pretty. It's downright ugly. But it's very, very human.

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 23, 2010, 03:38:44 PM
You are most definitely 100% girl, regardless of the configuration of your genitalia. Genitals do not define your gender.
Or, as a girl on another trans site once said: "Respect the girl c0ck!"

Thanks very much for that kind comment! Im sure all transgirls like me would appreciate that ;D You're 100% woman too, and all transgirls because we are all girls born as males ;D

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 23, 2010, 03:38:44 PM
A friend of mine once observed that many trans women seem to get surgery for the sole purpose of ->-bleeped-<-ting on pre-ops and non-ops.
But you're right; I also think that deep insecurities in these people drive them to try and be the 'most trans' and the 'most real' - or at least convince themselves that they are, in order to cover up their insecurities.
Two of the vocal post-op elitists over here in NZ (who think that pre-ops shouldn't be allowed into women's toilets) are simply trying to be '->-bleeped-<-r than thou' in order to make themselves feel better - as both of them are highly unpassable. The vagina has become the focus of their existence - a crutch to compensate for the masculine physical traits that are beyond their control.
They'd be better off learning to accept the things that they cannot change, rather than crapping all over others to make themselves feel better.

Hell, anyone with the money can buy a custom built vad
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ge, so why the hell is it so special? Has being 'real' or 'true' been reduced to how much money we have?

I'd avoid socialising with such nasty people whose happiness derives from others misery :\ Unless theyre persistant, then they get the honour of meeting with my graceful fist of feminine beauty ;D

Quote from: barbie on May 23, 2010, 11:18:56 AM
I do not want to be a woman, but who I am, myself.

Barbie~~

That's what i told my wife. That's when the light finally came on for her about my situation.

As far as the topic/subject, i find it sad that this is even going on in our community.

What exactly constitutes 'living in a fantasy world' when you're on-line in the first place?

Quote from: tekla on May 24, 2010, 12:54:37 PM
What exactly constitutes 'living in a fantasy world' when you're on-line in the first place?

According to buddhism, we all live in a fantasy world. If you do not think so, then you are under a delusion  :D.

Barbie~~

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 03:15:49 PM
Hate to break it to you, but the internet runs on physical, real-world properties - not unicorns and pixie dust.

I thought it was "ether."

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on May 24, 2010, 03:15:49 PM
Hate to break it to you, but the internet runs on physical, real-world properties - not unicorns and pixie dust.

unicorns can be found in the androgyne forum, along with pixie dust and fruitcake :)

Quote from: tekla on May 24, 2010, 12:54:37 PM
What exactly constitutes 'living in a fantasy world' when you're on-line in the first place?

Lol, true.

Quote from: riven1 on May 24, 2010, 04:08:15 PM
unicorns can be found in the androgyne forum, along with pixie dust and fruitcake :)

Omg, I'm so there :)!

I can't stand the Elite attitude.

If we all lived by this thought: "Everyone's life/transition is different" then maybe that attitude wouldn't happen

we cant shut other people mouth.

and why the heck that she suicide? obviously, she not strong enuf to face the cruel world this days.

world was beautylistic. even among TG there was this problem. the cute and preety TG will not friend with fugly TG. hahahahahhahah, maybe they scare they will not stop laughing !! whahahahahahhahahaha

Julia Serano REALLY destroys this notion of stratifying trans people based on their genital configuration in "Whipping Girl." When others "gender" us, they do so almost entirely based upon secondary sexual characteristics. As she says, "really, how many times have you actually seen another person's genitals during your day-to-day life?"

She also makes the point that reducing "womanhood" down to whether or not you have a vagina is also misogynist, because it relies on the assumption that a woman's worth is tied to whether a hetero-normative man would sexually desire her. This view point is also classist, because many trans women may never be able to afford the full-on "bottom surgery," even if they want it.

From my point of view, as someone who is undecided on if I will ever go the full SRS/GRS route, I'm pretty sure that a few years from now, when I look in the mirror and see a pretty girl staring back at me, and (hopefully) the world treats me as such, I'll feel like a woman... even if, to quote Serano, I have a "tiny, estrogenized penis" cowering in my boy shorts. :)

hai mtfbuckeye!!

sorry for my last post!! doesnt mean to offend u!! just said u were handsome!!

sorry moderator!!! im just too excited coz i see many of people here have same feeling as i am!! wanna be girl!!

so , if people mocked u!! be strong!! 1 person mocked! got 100 more praise u!!

CZ,
You also said I was fat. And you just made light of a trans woman's suicide. FAIL.

clairezoey;
I would sugest that maybe you stop posting and start reading. Your doing a good job of alienating yourself. Look at your reputation.
Learn how we treat eachother with respect.

I can't stand elitism at the best of times.. This is just ridiculous.. We have things hard enough without our 'sisters' bagging us out..

:police:

Everybody calm down or this thread will be locked, too.

Clairezoey: As Cynthialee said, read the site rules and some of the threads.  This is a friendly, supportive, informative site and the staff here intend to keep it that way.  If you cannot be supportive or add something to the discussion, then don't post.

Please settle down everybody.

And have a nice day.

[/ :police: ]

- Kate

okay, im so sorry...we need to support each other..no matter heart broken u were, dont suicide, life was wonderfull..cheers

There is a foundation in the country I'm from, it's called Benjamin. The people in it have made up some kind of rules for when a non-cis-person is a Proper Transsexual. They mean that, well, if you haven't hated your body ever since childhood, if you are a transwoman who doesn't like makeup and wearing dresses, if you're a transman who likes to wear pink, then you're not a Proper Transsexual. If you're a gay transman or a lesbian transwoman, you're not a Proper TS.
This kind of attitude is really effing stupid, and ruins stuff for a lot of people. People shouldn't exclude others like this, people should try to be warm to one another and help one another, regardless of how they look, what they wear, what gender they are, etc.

That's so sad, I don't how anyone can judge someone on anything. Everyone is unquie and special in their own way and no one is more trans or what have you than anyone is the community. Each person has their own exp and story and most certainly no one is alike sure you can find people whom you have things in common with. I couldn't judge a brother or sister in our community let alone anyone. This just breaks my heart and idk really what to say to this, but I can say this, I hope no one comments suicide again over someone elses judgment no matter the case. And these people who have done or is doin this riduclaus judging will relize how wrong they are in doing this and stop. How dare anyone judge someone over anything. We're suppose to offer each other support and not act like this.
*my apologies for swearing a little*
edit: language

Quote from: Maldita on August 28, 2010, 09:45:13 AM
There is a foundation in the country I'm from, it's called Benjamin. The people in it have made up some kind of rules for when a non-cis-person is a Proper Transsexual. They mean that, well, if you haven't hated your body ever since childhood, if you are a transwoman who doesn't like makeup and wearing dresses, if you're a transman who likes to wear pink, then you're not a Proper Transsexual. If you're a gay transman or a lesbian transwoman, you're not a Proper TS.

It's crap like this (in the U.S.) that sent me back into the closet twelve minutes after I came out. Of course, that was back in the eighties.

You're right, it's stupid.

I like the 12-step notion that we should not "write someone else's inventory." When we do we are avoiding doing our own personal work. It is also arrogant. How can I judge anyone else's life or choices?

I am always sad to hear of someone suiciding. Sad.

I appreciate that for the most part the posts at Susan's are not judgmental and are supportive.

Thank you all.

Kendall

Quote from: riven1 on May 24, 2010, 11:49:57 AM
That's what i told my wife. That's when the light finally came on for her about my situation.

That sounds like good news honey :-*
Hope it stays that way

Hugs

Cindy