Susan's Place Transgender Resources

so last sunday , i was preparing for bed and ( as usual when i try to sleep) was a little too uncomfortable with my body  .then it got me thinking , what the hell do i want?! (untill then i was identifying as mtf ,planning on full transition) i knew then i don't totally fit under any category i mean most mtfs i knew or read about didn't get guys actions , i totally understand both , and yeah i would want to be good looking but not masculine and not too feminine .... anyway i kept thinking then it suddenly hit me , i think i'm androgyny

but then like two days later i found out that even that i might not fit in it , since i'm leaning more towards a fem body (probably why i'm still planning -yet unsure- on full transition)  . most androgyny people say that theyr neither female or male , but i say ..i'm a lil bit of both . and i can actually be both , but would be more comfortable in a different body that's all .

so my basic motivation that made me come across the TG society in general that even though i was completely unaware of such society that i felt the need to be a woman , then after came familiar with the terms i decided that i actually am androgyny , but then there's this whole mix up in my head





so anyway , you don't have to read the above ranting , here's the basic point of this thread

as the title said , what's your own definition of "androgyny" ?

Quote from: something else on May 26, 2010, 06:21:39 AM
most androgyny people say that theyr neither female or male , but i say ..i'm a lil bit of both . and i can actually be both , but would be more comfortable in a different body that's all .

Not true!

For some it is PHYSICAL androgyny they seek - for others it is a MENTAL state.

Although the physical is probably the more common form of expression you are quite incorrect in stating that the other does not exist if you read the posts by Helena and myself you would see that it does.

Andogyne is a broad church emcompassing people from those who like me want have a physically totally female form but historically have chosen to express some masculine personality traits to those who as you say are neither or a bit of both.

It's not a simple definition - it a very broad and varied one - there is NO ONE defintive andogyne - that why the stereotype thread got to be so silly and fun, because if you put a bunch in the room there would be as many variations on a theme as you could imagine.

Quote from: rejennyrated on May 26, 2010, 06:35:34 AM
Not true!

For some it is PHYSICAL androgyny they seek - for others it is a MENTAL state.

Although the physical is probably the more common form of expression you are quite incorrect in stating that the other does not exist if you read the posts by Helena and myself you would see that it does.

yeah of course i know about the andro mental state, i'm actually living it heh
and i know about Gender Gifted Girls  :D , and the fact that you are the founder of the term , which i actually knew from your response to my first thread here and my first encounter with all the TG community ,so for always trying to clarify everything, thanks :)

i read some of the (i want a stereotype) thread . but as you said. so it was confusing , so i figured maybe everyone have their own definiton and understanding of an androgyny ,and for some reason that i don't know i need to feel that i'm under some category , maybe because i was scared that there might be something wrong with me or all i'm having are delusions , hence>>this thread

maybe this thread should be titled "so let me get this straight QUEER once and for all , what's YOUR definition of an andro    ;)  :laugh:

What it means for me (no one else) and my reality, neither male or female.

Z

"Androgyne" covers a lot of territory - it could mean feeling like both genders, no gender, or anything in between. I believe "my" definition of androgyne differs from the official definition that is in the susans wiki.

For me, i'm genderfluid which means i float between the two binaries. Sometimes i like to femme out, other times i'm happy doing boy stuff.

We're the assorted mixed chocolates of transgendered people  :D

Quote from: riven1 on May 26, 2010, 09:54:58 AM
We're the assorted mixed chocolates of transgendered people  :D

YAY - another great metaphor! :D

Actually that's an idea for a great new "fun" thead...

Which to avoid hijacking this one you now can find here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77779.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77779.0.html)

Quote from: rejennyrated on May 26, 2010, 10:27:25 AM
YAY - another great metaphor! :D

Actually that's an idea for a great new "fun" thead...

Which to avoid hijacking this one you now can find here https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77779.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77779.0.html)

I was originally gonna say "mixed nuts" but thought better of it  :D

Androgyne: a gender identity that has absolutely nothing to do with gender expresison/androgynous; the gender identity wherein the individual identifies as both bigender, inbetween, neither binary gender or a complete other gender; and does not necessarily experience gender dysphoria.

My definition is straight from the book - I've come to accept Androgyny as a large playfield even if my own, individual frame of reference doesn't stretch that far.

Hmmmm...let me speak of how *I* see the androgyn "community" at large....basically the way I see it...are you MtF?
No?
Are you FtM?
No?
Are you transgender though?
Yes?
Then you likely fit into androgyny gender identity. (Though...for what it's worth I think No_id said it better...)  ;)

Somebody what feels themself to be neither wholey male nor female for whatever reason.

Any body/image/presentation/clothing choices/null genderedness/bi-genderedness/genderfluidnes &c.. are elements of how the particular person conceives and deals with the above situation.

Hi.
  Some where in between or 60 % male 60 % female .
  happy being who i am & wired both,

  You see we are all different & really its no one else s concern,   Iv seen what its like being male Im seeing what it s like being female  tho i tend towards female in how i would rather think yet enough male to know im not a true male & cant be a true female.

  So now. im accepted as a woman , & thatll do for me. & how i express my self as one ,
  So when i say im a transfemale with a male back ground & can live with my self , then thats all that matters.

...noeleena...

Quote from: noeleena on May 30, 2010, 05:27:23 AM
Hi.
  Some where in between or 60 % male 60 % female .
 

Doesn't that make you 120% a person?

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 30, 2010, 09:42:58 AM
Doesn't that make you 120% a person?

lol,
maybe noeleena meant either somewhere between 60% female & 40%male, and 60%male and 40%female.

eNTROPY, I consider myself a andro because I don't feel like either male or female fully, so I could never transition to be a full male (because I would hate it) but I couldn't keep up most of the feminine standards that, the US at least, impose on females.

When I was new to the idea of straying away from the my past gender stereotype, the first thing I did was look up some basic definitions in a regular dictionary.
dictionary.com:
Androgyne (noun): a being of ambiguous sexual identity; one that combines major aspects of both the male and the female.

Those aspects to me are both external and internal. I think which of those aspects a person decides to take on depends on the individual. So being androgynous can mean a very large array of differences in ppl, but imo you would have to be taking on both gender qualities to really be considered an androgyne.

Hope that helps, and Pica, no hard feelings.

Quote from: Carl E. Shy on May 30, 2010, 09:53:32 PM
lol,
imo you would have to be taking on both gender qualities to really be considered an androgyne.

That leaves out the neurosis people.

The idea of Androgyne can cover alot of territory. I think it might be better ussed as a fashion term.
Not to say I do not 'believe' in them, my wife is one.
The main problem I see is that the word can mean diferant things to diferant people.
What is an androgyne? What is a woman, what is a man, what is a genderqueer, what is a what is a what is a........?

Now to me an androgyne is a person who is physicaly and emotionaly and mentaly gendered with some of both of the binary genders traits.
But that definaition is bassed purely on my exposure to Sevan.

I don't think with the curent language in use that your question can be answered.

Hi.
  ya ya i know the math is not right  its not ment to be. how do you explain to others what we are. we are all so different.   like trees  do they look the same no .  theres just so many .  get up close & they are different,

if youv worked on sheep farms then youll know what im saying , can you tell the difference ,
  if we had 1000 sheep  put in front of you , could you pick one out , then put  back in  with the others & you then find it. you may , you may not .  Iv worked with them so i know,

   So we may look similar yet we are not. unless we say some thing about our selfs no one really knows who we are or whats going on inside of us . 
There is no easy way of saying it & i have enough trouble with words ,
    so if i say im a transfemale with a male background yet a andrognous person . does that cover it , it gives people an idear , yet does not say much really does it . because of the mere fact we are so different.
Now the only way  is of cause ,  we sit down in front of each other & spend  a few days talking then we would get to know each other , & even then not know all about each other .

  Like Jos did she really know me , no even after 37 years to gether  the first 24  years she knew a lot yet did not know i was . am part woman . she saw me as a male 100 %  i was not. now & over the last 12 years she knows  what i am ,  bloody hard to say the lest,
   so back to my math do i say 50 / 50, no, because i swing back & forth hence my 60  /  60 

  so if this makes sence, then i hope you see a bit more of who i am,
   im not going to say it all makes sence to me,
   so all i can do is try.

...noeleena...

Quote from: riven1 on May 30, 2010, 10:08:00 PM
That leaves out the neurosis people.

Ah crap, I also have an neurosis now?...  :-\

Just playing riven, I figure you meant neutrois. ;)

noeleena , i understand the 60/60 percentage in a way

i've come to a conclusion though , as gloria gaynor once said ," i am what i am , i'm my own special creation"  , i've never liked labeling myself anything anyway.

i've always realized that everyone have their own special definition/prospective of everything . although there's often common traits between some people even if they don't belong to the same 'group' 

so , although i haven't (yet?) given myself a 'type' (and i don't think i will ), but now i know exactly what i want ,basically and simply an androgynous look , get rid of some things that i don't like , so that when someone sees me they think she? then he? , not the other way around ,if that makes sense to someone
as for pronouns , i don't care if i'm referred to as  she , ze , or even it . and although i don't like the 'he' , but it wouldn't bother me much if i have the physical figure/look that i want , and as long as i know exactly who i am.

You've said that you are what you are, but what are you? You only said what you wanna look like.

Andro is a person who has not had baby and has not served in military.  ;D

I agree. But in my homecountry you are not a man in case you have not served in the military.

Quote from: no_id on May 31, 2010, 04:56:51 AM
Ah crap, I also have an neurosis now?...  :-\

Just playing riven, I figure you meant neutrois. ;)

Dang it, i even looked that word up to be sure of the spelling and STILL got it wrong :D

Quote from: Pica Pica on May 31, 2010, 08:34:53 AM
You've said that you are what you are, but what are you? You only said what you wanna look like.

a vampire mostly lol
honestly i don't know the answer to that since my definition for an androgyne is this:
♦..............x...........0........................♦
Female     me         andro                    male     

and even that graph doesn't totally describe it , and i'm not that good with words , but i guess i'm closer to an andro than none , but i like to keep myself free of labels' 'strains' if you understand what i mean :)

I define androgyny as feeling like one doesn't completely fit into "male" or "female" categories in some way, be it performatively, physically, psychologically or any other manifestation of gender.  This is a very broad definition, but there are a multitude of ways to be an androgyne.  It all depends on the person who identifies as such.

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on June 01, 2010, 09:35:46 PM
When I was a (male) elf extra in the Lord of the Rings, I was kicked out of the front row of elves by the assistant director, her reason being: "You don't look androgynous enough."
Boy did that make me laugh.
I'd love to meet her now and remind her of the incident.

ROFL , but that's Epic you were in lord of the rings?!!

Quote from: Xren on June 01, 2010, 10:15:53 AM
I define androgyny as feeling like one doesn't completely fit into "male" or "female" categories in some way, be it performatively, physically, psychologically or any other manifestation of gender.  This is a very broad definition, but there are a multitude of ways to be an androgyne.  It all depends on the person who identifies as such.

I think this is one of the scariest definitions I have seen in a long time. And really, that's not meant as a stab or whatsoever but it really did make me sit back and take on a ponder-pose for a minute.
The idea of throwing gender expression, behaviour and psychology into one package with an option to take one or more and still attach them to the same 'definition' just seems to reduce the androgyne identity to a doggybag...  Then again, I'm a strong believer of the difference between androgynous and androgyne and find gender specific behaviour an 'err' subject on its own. Also, it's an opinion thread so I really just take this as food for thought to munch on.

Quote from: no_id on June 02, 2010, 03:56:33 AM
I think this is one of the scariest definitions I have seen in a long time. And really, that's not meant as a stab or whatsoever but it really did make me sit back and take on a ponder-pose for a minute.
The idea of throwing gender expression, behaviour and psychology into one package with an option to take one or more and still attach them to the same 'definition' just seems to reduce the androgyne identity to a doggybag...  Then again, I'm a strong believer of the difference between androgynous and androgyne and find gender specific behaviour an 'err' subject on its own. Also, it's an opinion thread so I really just take this as food for thought to munch on.

I'm sorry that I offended you--I'm not trying to tell anyone else what they have to believe, and I'm still not exactly sure how I personally define it.  I identify as androgyne in a lot of ways, and I know it's not a catch-all identity and that there is a difference between androgynous and androgyne.  My intent wasn't to trivialize anything, if that's how you read it.  My god I'm sorry...please don't hate me or think I'm a bad person...

Quote from: Xren on June 02, 2010, 09:18:27 AM
My god I'm sorry...please don't hate me or think I'm a bad person...

Relax, I think it's fair to say that everyone defines themselves here! (It's not like we have much else as a frame of reference.) There may be some debate and such, but other people's opinions are very welcome, so long as they aren't being intentionally offensive.  :)

Quote from: Xren on June 02, 2010, 09:18:27 AM
I'm sorry that I offended you--I'm not trying to tell anyone else what they have to believe, and I'm still not exactly sure how I personally define it.  I identify as androgyne in a lot of ways, and I know it's not a catch-all identity and that there is a difference between androgynous and androgyne.  My intent wasn't to trivialize anything, if that's how you read it.  My god I'm sorry...please don't hate me or think I'm a bad person...

Ahhh no worries Xren, you didn't offend me at all. Your reply just made me gulp for a second and I wrote that out in a reply. It wasn't intended as a crucade if that's how it came across. :)

I don't think you're a bad person at all, and like Fen says: opinions are always welcome.  :-* Breathe..

Hi.
  Sorry i cant write your name Buixea ,

So a kiwi then . wow.   Peter . Jackson.

  What years & i spos up in the north isl .

    Iv just got back from a school re  , a school get to gether. & we had 4 from our class  of 1953 .  three  men & one woman. we had 120 turn up.
  Yes we had a few comment on my self as being different. & was accepted by all with out any thing being said like , oh what the heck.
  It was lovely  to catch up & we will do a bigger one in 2012.
  This has proved time & time again we can be accepted regardless of what we look like , & what we are ., I  talked to most of those who were there & yes had a great time .
For any kiwis , its Bamford school in woolston christchurch   n z ,
  As im seeing things i really dont think people are bothered about what we get called or how we use names to discribe what we are , 
   just be who you are ,

  Its seems like we put blooks in front of our selfs when really others dont, & when you think about it they accepted myself after 50 odd years,
  so whats that saying ,  i just think its so great & really , its so neat,
& i allso met up with other friends going back 39 years , with full acceptance as well  who iv not seen for that time,
so thats my week end .

...noeleena,,,