Susan's Place Transgender Resources

honestly I'm not into fully tansitioning. I'd like to just grow up like the average kid and grow up the way my body wants to be I guess you could say. And anyway well I think I'll probably end p being with agirl rather than a guy but I just wonder what are the legal laws of marriage and all?

whats your question exactly? are you asking about gay-marriage?

no Iwas asking if I could legally marry a girl if I transitioned

Only where same sex marriages are legal and recognized.  :)

Where do you live? No one can really give you advice on legal matters otherwise, law isn't universal ;).

Also lets say you transitioned to living as a girl, that doesn't mean you have to get GRS/SRS, so in many places you'd still be considered legally male.

Although... I really wouldn't make decisions based on whether you can get married or not, the most important thing is you're happy with yourself, whatever that entails is up to you.

Laws on this vary considerably, from nation to nation and even between states in the USA.  Let me give you an example though.  If you were born "male" and transition to female, in MOST states you could marry a man. In some states you could marry a woman.  Of course, we need to define "transition."  Living and being accepted as female, for example, does not mean you are legally female in many jurisdiction.  I once had two clients, a post op TS lady and a pre op TS lady. They wanted to get married.  In California this is legal, although I had to send a letter explaining things to the county clerk in their home county.  The first try for a marriage license was turned down because there was no way that the licensing clerk was going to let two women get married!!  They got the license on the second try.

I hope this helps.

This is very good question. Partially it depends will the state where you were born accept the legal sex change giving a new birthcertificate. The medical requirements for FTM: s vary more than than for MTF:s. Even part of the states that accept changing your birtcertificate have common law rulings making marriages void between post-op transsexual and his/her spouse in other sex.
And in some few states marriage is between any two adults regardless of their sex.

yeah sure did thanx :)

QuoteEven part of the states that accept changing your birth certificate have common law rulings making marriages void between post-op transsexual and his/her spouse in other sex.

Hmm, my state you can change and impound your birth cert. Your marriage does not dissolve because of it. I would be careful of believing that one.

I meant that in many states have common law rulings against for example post-op transwoman marrying a man. For example Florida has such ruling.

Quote from: darklady on June 01, 2010, 11:39:24 AM
This is very good question. Partially it depends will the state where you were born accept the legal sex change giving a new birthcertificate. The medical requirements for FTM: s vary more than than for MTF:s. Even part of the states that accept changing your birtcertificate have common law rulings making marriages void between post-op transsexual and his/her spouse in other sex.
And in some few states marriage is between any two adults regardless of their sex.

either way wow

If a girl keeps her legal documentaition as male then I imagine it would be a proper legal loophole.

I know of two FTMs who are legally married in a state that does not recognize gay marriage because one of them is post-op and the other pre-op.

The answer to the original questions, therefore, is: It depends.

- Kate

Quote from: LordKAT on June 01, 2010, 11:42:30 AM
Hmm, my state you can change and impound your birth cert. Your marriage does not dissolve because of it. I would be careful of believing that one.

In Houston, I could marry a man post-op. In San Antonio, I'd have my marriage annulled but could marry a girl... until I moved to another county. Texas doesn't let you change your birth certificate, and some counties go by legal gender, others, by BC.

Hopefully we'll get a string of lawsuits for at least a god damn uniform code within each state.

Quote from: Autumn on June 03, 2010, 10:19:34 PM
In Houston, I could marry a man post-op. In San Antonio, I'd have my marriage annulled but could marry a girl... until I moved to another county. Texas doesn't let you change your birth certificate, and some counties go by legal gender, others, by BC.

Hopefully we'll get a string of lawsuits for at least a god damn uniform code within each state.

The Texas Legislature voted unanimously in 2009 to amend the law of the State of Texas so that court ordered gender changes and court ordered name changes can be used to establish the identity for purposes of marriage.  That legislative action appears to have rejected the Littleton v Prang line of cases that ruled that a Texas Birth Certificate establishes the sex at birth for purposes of marriage. In that case, the Texas Supreme Court said that legislative action was needed to permit a court ordered gender change to establish the sex for purposes of marriage.  That's exactly what happened last year, so there should be no legitimate question about getting legally married throughout Texas now.  Getting the Counties to follow the law, however, in issuing the marriage licenses, is still a challenge.  But the rights seem to be clear and enforcable.  If you have a birth certificate that says male, and a court ordered gender change that says female, you should be able to present either, depending on the circumstances, and marry whomever you want.  IANYL.  TINLA.

Quote from: glendagladwitch on June 03, 2010, 11:25:01 PM
The Texas Legislature voted unanimously in 2009 to amend the law of the State of Texas so that court ordered gender changes and court ordered name changes can be used to establish the identity for purposes of marriage.  That legislative action appears to have rejected the Littleton v Prang line of cases that ruled that a Texas Birth Certificate establishes the sex at birth for purposes of marriage. In that case, the Texas Supreme Court said that legislative action was needed to permit a court ordered gender change to establish the sex for purposes of marriage.  That's exactly what happened last year, so there should be no legitimate question about getting legally married throughout Texas now.  Getting the Counties to follow the law, however, in issuing the marriage licenses, is still a challenge.  But the rights seem to be clear and enforcable.  If you have a birth certificate that says male, and a court ordered gender change that says female, you should be able to present either, depending on the circumstances, and marry whomever you want.  IANYL.  TINLA.

This sounds like a gay marriage loophole. Interesting. Of course, they're busy trying to un-divorce a gay couple in North Texas, last I read.

Thank you for the update.

I'm not sure why it would be called a "gay marriage" loophole.  I don't see how gays would use it to get married.

I'd like more info on the "undivorce" thing if you have it.

Here is a link to a letter to the Texas Attorney General from the County Attorney in El Paso.  It contains a very nice summary of the history law for T marriage in Texas.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site525/2010/0504/20100504_063158_bernal_opinion_request.pdf (http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site525/2010/0504/20100504_063158_bernal_opinion_request.pdf)