Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Save the ta-tas - Topless transgender men may affect LBGT rights
June 7, 12:31 AM
Wilmington Civil Rights Examiner
Angel Clark

http://www.examiner.com/x-41752-Wilmington-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2010m6d7-Save-the-tatas--Topless-transgender-men-may-affect-LBGT-rights (http://www.examiner.com/x-41752-Wilmington-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2010m6d7-Save-the-tatas--Topless-transgender-men-may-affect-LBGT-rights)

Memorial Day weekend in a resort town tends to be busy and hectic, yet normally nothing local police cannot handle. This year, however, Rehoboth Beach police were confronted with a usual situation. It seems a group of transgender men were sunbathing topless on the beach near Queen Street.

Two of the four transgender men were in a transitional stage of operations, seemingly having both male and female sex organs. Although the men were in the process of "becoming" women, they wanted to continue to have the same rights men enjoy while at the beach. Police and beach patrol asked the transgender men to cover their breasts and the men complied. They did, however, argue that they "are transgender and it is illegal to discriminate".

Rehoboth Leaders: No Plans to Revisit Topless Transgender Issue
Reported by Michael Lopardi
09 June, 2010


http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=12614762 (http://www.wboc.com/Global/story.asp?S=12614762)


REHOBOTH BEACH, Del.- Even though the debate over who has to wear a bathing suit top at the beach is generating a lot of talk, it's not coming from leaders in the city of Rehoboth Beach.
On Tuesday, Mayor Samuel Cooper said the city would not readdress a Memorial Day weekend incident where several topless transgender people, identified as female, initially refused requests by lifeguards to cover themselves.

Cooper, who declined an on-camera interview, said over the phone he had no intentions of bringing up the issue unless a future incident cannot be resolved.

IIRC, the Supreme Court or one of those high courts already ruled not long ago that it is unconstitutional to stop natal women from going topless in public if it is a protest.  If they do rewrite the law to stop "men with breasts" from going topless in public, I'm pretty sure they can still do it as a protest.  Basically, all you have to do if they try to arrest you is say it's a protest of something or other.  Whatever.  Maybe they'll still arrest you, but then you get all rich and stuff, eventually.

I really hate it how they assume that "transgender men" means they are MTF. Obviously they were FTM; why would trans women go topless? I think it's because there is so much ignorance about trans people that some people don't even know that there is such a thing as trans men, and they assume that all trans people are (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks) "men who want to be women".

Tatas- slang for boobs in Spanish. That title offends me. (And I feel the need to tell you all about it.)

Quote from: TheAetherealMeadow on June 17, 2010, 12:00:22 AM
I really hate it how they assume that "transgender men" means they are MTF. Obviously they were FTM; why would trans women go topless? I think it's because there is so much ignorance about trans people that some people don't even know that there is such a thing as trans men, and they assume that all trans people are (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks) "men who want to be women".

From the article ---> "Lifeguards said the group of transgender people had either transitioned, or was in the process of transitioning, from male-to-female and some had breast implants. Some of those involved claimed discrimination when asked to cover up but eventually complied, the beach patrol captain said."

I doubt that we'll ever get to the bottom of this story, and I for one am tired of second-guessing.

Yes... If you look upon boobs you will go blind and crazy... Blind and crazy I tell You!!!  :laugh: >:-) :laugh:

That's exactly why I'm thinking to go gardening topless

Quote from: SilverFang on June 17, 2010, 12:09:10 AM
Tatas- slang for boobs in Spanish. That title offends me. (And I feel the need to tell you all about it.)

We tatally understand.

Quote from: SilverFang on June 17, 2010, 12:09:10 AM
Tatas- slang for boobs in Spanish. That title offends me. (And I feel the need to tell you all about it.)

but I like tata's thats one of my words for the girls

Well, I'm only offended if they're FTM then.

I'm glad someone spoke up because Ta-Ta's is one of my fav. terms for mine also

I didn't want to offend anyone though

My sons first word is ta, is that like one breast  ???

Quote from: Nicky on June 17, 2010, 09:50:49 PM
My sons first word is ta, is that like one breast  ???

Nope.

I hate to say this, but if you're TG, you can't expect to be allowed in the Ladies' room and also expect to be allowed to sunbathe topless where it's against the law for women to do so.  You're either a woman, or you aren't.

(Unless of course you're androgyn, but that's a different issue.)

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 18, 2010, 09:10:39 AM
I hate to say this, but if you're TG, you can't expect to be allowed in the Ladies' room and also expect to be allowed to sunbathe topless where it's against the law for women to do so.  You're either a woman, or you aren't.

(Unless of course you're androgyn, but that's a different issue.)

What do we think the rules of social norms concerning nudeity should be for an androgyne?

Quote from: cynthialee on June 18, 2010, 10:25:28 AM
What do we think the rules of social norms concerning nudeity should be for an androgyne?

Ever hear that saying that says if you got 'em, flaunt 'em. Well in this case not, unless in my viewing area.

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 18, 2010, 09:10:39 AM
I hate to say this, but if you're TG, you can't expect to be allowed in the Ladies' room and also expect to be allowed to sunbathe topless where it's against the law for women to do so.  You're either a woman, or you aren't.

(Unless of course you're androgyn, but that's a different issue.)

I disagree.  Down with the gender binary prison.  Let anyone use any bathroom.  Let people wear whatever they want.  That's my view.

Quote from: cynthialee on June 18, 2010, 10:25:28 AM
What do we think the rules of social norms concerning nudeity should be for an androgyne?

Lol.  Sorry. I meant that "Either you are a woman or you aren't" doesn't apply to androgyns.  That you can't claim the right to be accepted as a woman, and then still expect to have the same social rights as men.  Sorry, I wasn't clear.  It was very late when I posted.  :D

Quote from: glendagladwitch on June 18, 2010, 07:04:02 PM
I disagree.  Down with the gender binary prison.  Let anyone use any bathroom.  Let people wear whatever they want.  That's my view.

I actually agree with you on this point.  What I meant was that if you want society to accept you as a woman, you can't go about contradicting yourself by saying, "But I shouldn't be subject to those rules, because I'm really a man."  It undermines your credibility, and when it gets press coverage like this, it undermines the credibility of all trans people.

There.  Hope I made myself clear this time. :)

Quote from: TheAetherealMeadow on June 17, 2010, 12:00:22 AM
I really hate it how they assume that "transgender men" means they are MTF. Obviously they were FTM; why would trans women go topless? I think it's because there is so much ignorance about trans people that some people don't even know that there is such a thing as trans men, and they assume that all trans people are (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks) "men who want to be women".

I hate it when people assume things without bothering to read about them first. Also, the offensive thing here is calling MTF 'transgender men', because that's what FOX and other news agencies mislabeled them as.

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on June 18, 2010, 10:23:47 PM
Except when society has already deemed that you're not allowed to be recognised as female, so you play up to those shabby expectations; "Sorry officer, but the court won't legally recognise me as female, so it's okay for me to bare my chest. You're welcome to challenge the court's decision and I would love to be legally recognised as female, but until you get that change made, I'm legally male and bound only by male laws."

You definitely have a point.  And the impish, rebellious side of me says, "You go, Girls!"  Unfortunately, though, I don't think that's the message the majority of people will take away from the incident.  I think most people will consider these people hypocritical and think, "Well, why should I accept you as a woman when you refuse to act like one?"  I'm not saying they are right.  I'm just saying that you risk doing more harm than good for your cause with this kind of action.  I actually hope I am wrong.

Quote from: Jamie-o on June 18, 2010, 08:44:02 PM

I actually agree with you on this point.  What I meant was that if you want society to accept you as a woman, you can't go about contradicting yourself by saying, "But I shouldn't be subject to those rules, because I'm really a man."  It undermines your credibility, and when it gets press coverage like this, it undermines the credibility of all trans people.

There.  Hope I made myself clear this time. :)

Yep.  You're right about that.  It was the bathroom analogy that through me off. 

But saying "but I'm really a man" is not the same as saying, "you can't prosecute me under your efftarded law that's discriminates on the basis of sex because your naive and rigid classification of me as a particular gender against my will short circuits your logic, nyah nyah."