Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I was in Seoul last Thursday night to attend an international conference in a luxury hotel located in a flourishing town. The town is famous for rich men and sexy girls in the street.

Streets were full of young people wearing red shirts and other various fashion items for cheering for the Korean world cup team. And, our team lost to the Argentina team. However, the street was still loud and I saw young people drink in restaurants.

I walked for staying in a hotel, and noticed a young couple walked and passed me in the street, because the young woman wore a beautiful red dotted one-piece dress. Her body shape and leg line were so much adorable. She was tall, and her legs looked like mine. Suddenly she turned her head to me and also studied me. I ignored it, just walked and passed them. And, her boyfriend suddenly approached me, trying to speak to me. He looked handsome and matched well with his beautiful girl friend. He seemed to be a little bit drunken. He spoke to me in English, and I guessed that they might think I am a foreigner, as I am unusually tall as a Korean woman, of course taller than his girl friend. I did not understand what he asked, but I just smiled and continued to walk. Then he shouted in English, "Do you reject me?" Oh my gosh. What is this guy talking about. He tried to talk more, but I just walked fast to escape from them.

And, in the stairway to an underpass, I felt that somebody is chasing me, and I heard a young man saying in Korean like "Excuse me." I ignored it, but he repeated in Korean like "Hello. Excuse me." He came near by me and I saw him. He was a handsome and tidy young man at his 20s. He looked at my eyes, asking like "I am wondering whether you are a man." Oh my gosh... So what? I guessed that he was drunken, too. I just ignored him, keeping walking. He did not chase me any longer.

I was wearing just a black jacket and short denim pants with a heavy black backpack like this: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=1798 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=1798) Instead of heels, I wore sneakers. Most people in the conference did not comment on my wearing, except one of my friends who praised my fashion on that day. He said I look pretty.

Just curious. Why do these hilarious young guys ask me unsolicited questions in the street? One of them was even with his beautiful girl friend...

Barbie~~

I think it's just the age... Most of the comments and questions (good & bad) that I get come from the young people from the university

Quote from: barbie on June 18, 2010, 02:27:02 PM
and I heard a young man saying in Korean like "Excuse me." I ignored it, but he repeated in Korean like "Hello. Excuse me." He came near by me and I saw him. He was a handsome and tidy young man at his 20s. He looked at my eyes, asking like "I am wondering whether you are a man."

Yeah, well, I was wondering the same about you.  :D

Asking a stranger in public their gender is very rude and rudeness never warrants a reply. You were completely in your place not to respond. I think it's best to get away from such persons as quickly as possible.

I know you have said you've never done any voice training. I suspect you feel a bit limited in situations with strangers because your voice will sound masculine. It's probably time you started working on that, considering you wear feminine clothes in public a lot and look very attractive at that. Voice was never a problem for me, since I've always kind of had two voices anyway and generally prefer my more andro/feminine one. I'm sure you could find a more feminine voice, too, with effort.

Lyric

If you don't like talking to strangers out on the street then home is a great place to be, but out in public, is like, public.

O.K. I am going to practice my voice this summer. I want a kind of speech freedom in public.

For the first question, I would reply like

"Oh. Well. I can accept you if your girl friend also accepts me"

For the 2nd question, I would reply like

"So, you mean you want to inspect my genital area?"

Chatting with strangers in public would be funny as long as they do not threat me.

Barbie~~

It sounds like those two were just drunken idiots who had no class or manners.

It up to you barbie really.

Been thinking about this a bit and realised I don't have any idea of Korean culture.

For example, in London, if you ask someone for directions, they will probably tell you in reference to a lot of words and places you have never heard of.

In Glasgow, it is equally likely they will ask you where you are going, perhaps getting into a conversation about it.

But equally, the question is incredably rude.

I don't really know if you need to do anything about your voice to be honest. I'm really thinking that it may make you feel less confident as you attempt to alter, yet another aspect of you.

But many younger Asian women do tend to have higher pitched voices. That said, many don't. But again, since I have, sadly, never been to that part of the world, my experiences are very limited.

But one point which I'm pretty sure everyone will agree with is that this guy was just a rude lout and deserves no more concern than any other lout.

Quote from: spacial on June 19, 2010, 04:01:33 AM
It up to you barbie really.

Been thinking about this a bit and realised I don't have any idea of Korean culture.

For example, in London, if you ask someone for directions, they will probably tell you in reference to a lot of words and places you have never heard of.

In Glasgow, it is equally likely they will ask you where you are going, perhaps getting into a conversation about it.

But equally, the question is incredably rude.

Yes. It is still rude by the standard here, but people here think even strangers in the street are a kind of family members or relatives because my country is crowded and people are very homogeneous. Most people call young women as 'sister', and men as 'uncle'. Even sales persons call me 'father', and my wife 'mother'.

And people here are very outspoken and loud compared with westerners. For example, in the train, I can not sleep, as most people speak loudly with their cellular phone. Even some of aged women quarrel with their husbands by the cellular phone, and I can know their private affairs. The thing like 'privacy' does not seem to exist here.

Especially, during the world cup, the affinity becomes stronger in the street. This was certainly a factor explaining why the two young men easily spoke to me. And the latter young guy might have thought I would accept it as a joke, even if I was turned out to be woman.

Barbie~~

While I still think the guy was being very rude and deserved a verbal comeback like #3, your description does put a rather different complexion on things.

I have heard said that much of the orient is quite friendly in that way.

Being a rather obvious westerner though and not speaking any of the loacl languages, it might be difficult too fully appreciate it all on a visit.

But one day I will try to see it. Korea does sound like a good place to experience the orient.

For example, in the train, I can not sleep, as most people speak loudly with their cellular phone.

Yeah, contrast that with the bus I take where using cell phones is verboten.  But for sure the difference between what is 'public' and what is 'private' is based in culture more than anything else.


Korea does sound like a good place to experience the orient.
South Korea perhaps, though it's pretty 'western' in the urban areas.  North Korea is the pretty good place to experience a cult of personality police state circa the 15th Century.  Check this out, one of the most amazing photos in terms of telling a story I've ever seen.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm)

You may be right Tekla.

I know very little about any of the orient. But most of it has been affected by recent social planning of one kind or another. I doubt there are many places to experinece an unpoluted setting.

Then again, I don't really want to visit a museum.  :D

Quote from: tekla on June 20, 2010, 01:17:47 PM
Check this out, one of the most amazing photos in terms of telling a story I've ever seen.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm)

The lights in the sea off the southestern coast of the Korean peninusal are from squid fishing vessels that use lights to attract squids.

Barbie~~

When I am questioned in the street nowadays I just raise my hand and they start to choke on their own words. Somedays its good to have Sith powers. Hehe.

Quote from: spacial on June 20, 2010, 07:06:15 PM
You may be right Tekla.

I know very little about any of the orient. But most of it has been affected by recent social planning of one kind or another. I doubt there are many places to experinece an unpoluted setting.

Then again, I don't really want to visit a museum.  :D

North Korea has a lot of unpolluted areas, especially Kumgangsan.

S. Korea is virtually westernized, and polluted in everyplace. I see a lot of foreigners in my area, and they also pay attention to me  ;D. Compared with large cities of the U.S., people here are busy, internet and transportation is more convenient, and it is very safe even at midnight. Streets do not sleep: you can enjoy everything for 24 hours. Street noises are intolerable, but fortunately my home is relatively quiet.

My hometown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W04uoZXzano# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W04uoZXzano#)

Barbie~~

The lights in the sea off the southestern coast of the Korean peninusal are from squid fishing vessels that use lights to attract squids.

That's cool I didn't know that.  On the other hand, the squid off the South Korean coast have more electric lighting than anyone in the North outside of Pyongyang.  That said I'd love to go to Pyongyang where they have a huge edifice to stupid planning/massive ego that everyone acts like it isn't there because the government say's its not called the Ryugyong Hotel, aka, The Hotel of Doom.

Even by Communist standards, the 3,000-room hotel is hideously ugly, a series of three gray 328-foot long concrete wings shaped into a steep pyramid. With 75 degree sides that rise to an apex of 1,083 feet, the Hotel of Doom (also known as the Phantom Hotel and the Phantom Pyramid) isn't the just the worst designed building in the world -- it's the worst-built building, too. In 1987, Baikdoosan Architects and Engineers put its first shovel into the ground and more than twenty years later, after North Korea poured more than two percent of its gross domestic product to building this monster, the hotel remains unoccupied, unopened, and unfinished.

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/the-side/DESIGN/hotel-of-doom-012808#ixzz0rTim1CUU (http://www.esquire.com/the-side/DESIGN/hotel-of-doom-012808#ixzz0rTim1CUU)

also:

http://www.damninteresting.com/north-koreas-secret-hotel (http://www.damninteresting.com/north-koreas-secret-hotel)

Now that I would love to tour!

Thank you for the video barbie.

I get a little annoyed when non-western places are said to be westernised. Even more, though it wasn't really made here, when non-western areas are siad to have been spoilt.

It really is the height of cultural arrogance to assume that the rest of the world should sit quietly, preserving their traditions and customs so we westerners can go gawp at this.

It reminds me of a documentry on some tribe in Africa. It praised the way these people had preserved their ancient herritage but suggested that this was now ending, showing a clip of a young man listening to a transistor radio. (How dare he?? )

We can all lament the passing of old areas and ways of life. But modern times call for modern methods. The town I live in has historical records going back 2000 years. It is currently the most conjested in Europe.

C'est la vie.

Quote from: spacial on June 21, 2010, 05:19:58 AM
We can all lament the passing of old areas and ways of life. But modern times call for modern methods. The town I live in has historical records going back 2000 years. It is currently the most conjested in Europe.

C'est la vie.

Yes. It is a survival game for any country or any tribe. We change and adapt to survive, and it does not matter whether it is western or eastern, or whether we preserve our tradition or not. Maybe you heard how many languages are perishing nowadays, especially in Australonesian. Diverisity is important, but we can see how many species have appeared and perished in geological time. The same is true for ethnic groups, languages and cultures.

Interestingly, here we can see a lot of new dishes that fuse both western and eastern ones. They are very popular here, and are called 'fusion food'. For example, Kentucky fried chicken + Korean hot sauce, Kimchi Mac, and many Koreanized Chinese dishes.

Dawkins' meme would give some insight. Some life styles, religions and custumes are also being imported from western countries. ATM and credit card have impacted globally with respect to culture and life style. That is the real world, and there is little room for a romantist to miss the past.

Barbie~~

That's a shame that some people have so much nerve. I try to be nice as a general rule but I also don't tolerate rude or nosy people. Yes, walking down the street is public but that doesn't give other people a right to demand your time, space, or attention. Unfortunately some people (regardless of culture) believe that they have a right to be more familiar with people than they currently are.

I always find it disturbing how people fail to pick up on cues. If someone yells something at me and I ignore them and they continue to do it, it should be obvious that I either can't hear them or I'm not interested in paying attention to them. If they think it is the former, they should evaluate whether it is that important to get my attention. If it is the latter then they need to leave me alone.

I don't care whether it is co-workers wondering what I'm doing on the weekend, neighbors wondering where I'm heading to, or strangers wondering if I live in the area. The fact is that nobody has a right to know anything about me unless I tell them to or I'm required to give it by law.

Anyway, asking a stranger their gender is stooping pretty low. My philosophy is this when it comes to strangers:

If I don't know them then they don't require my attention or time unless it is an emergency. If they aren't screaming "Somebody help me" to the top of their lungs then why are they trying to get my attention? I don't have time to spend talking or arguing with people in public places when I have things to do. Therefore my solution is simple when a stranger yells something stupid at me from a distance:

1. Ignore them
2. If that doesn't work, abruptly and forcefully ask them "Excuse me. What exactly is it that you need?"
3. If they still don't get the hint then it becomes, "You need to leave me the ->-bleeped-<- alone now."
4. If that still doesn't work, then I'm either running away or I'm using violence on them.

What's sad is that so many people these days fail to utilize basic social skills. You don't treat strangers as if you've known them for ten years nor visa versa. You don't ask someone personal questions when you don't even know their name. You respect people's space when feasible, you use "excuse me," smile, and other pleasantries. Other than a smile or a head nod, you don't assume that just because there is another human within your range of sensory perception that you have a right to interact with them beyond the simple acknowledgement that they are there. There is a difference between basic friendliness and actually being friends that too many people blur.

Hi

As iv spent time over in phuket, Thailand ,
  you will find it very different to western thinking . as i mixed with only Thai people ,
   yet i was accepted as one of them so you do talk with seemily strangers ,  after 5 mins  you certinly are not a stranger.
& while there it was just so nice being a part of them & being able to enjoy some thing that westeners dont have & that is a openness of acceptance.

What i did find strange was those from western countys did not have any thing in common with us my Thai friends or  my self , in fact they would not smile or say hi.     i said hi to  a few ,& only two people  smiled ,out of 15 westeners.
  my Thai friends knew when i was coming because of my bright mullti coloured skirt & top so they & i allways said hi & talked,  thats the difference.

...noeleena...

Yesterday night, while I ran for exercise in a beach, a guy approached me in front while mimicking my gesture of running. I ignored him, but he came too close to me. I looked down him, as the road was a downward slope and he was shorter than me. Surprisingly, he was a young caucasian at his 20s. He studied my face within just 1 feet distance. His mates across the road shouted like "Let's go!". Based on their English accent, I guess he was a American. Hilarious and very rude in a foregin country. This kind of act can threaten his life in any foregin country around the world. My country men mimicked me in the back of me, not in the front. Maybe he was drunken, but still a very provocative act, as visitors always tend to be defensive in visiting countries.

Barbie~~

Hilarious and very rude in a foregin country.

Yeah, that sounds like an American tourist, there is a reason that people the world over revile them.  If it's any comfort, and I'm sure it's not, they act just that bad when there are on vacation here too.  Most of the rest of their lives also.

Barbie, I'm beginning to worry about you. Maybe you should start running at the gym instead of in public. A pretty girl has to take certain risks into consideration, you know.

Lyric

Quote from: Lyric on July 03, 2010, 08:18:12 PM
Barbie, I'm beginning to worry about you. Maybe you should start running at the gym instead of in public. A pretty girl has to take certain risks into consideration, you know.

Lylic, thanks for concerning. I like outdoor exercising, and it is safe here because as many as 1 million people visit the beach here for just a single day. Yesterday was Saturday. If that kind of tease is indeed annoying, I can choose a remote area for outdoor running, but I guess it would be more insecure there. And I tone down my appearance: wearing black tees rather than bright ones, a black hat, and a worn-out sack in the waist.

Nowadays I see a lot of beautiful girls in the beach. Yesterday, one girl was as tall as me, wearing hot demini pants and kill heels, and she and her mates studied me while I passed them. I enjoy such attention from grils  ;D.

Barbie~~

they sound like complete ->-bleeped-<-s who had too much to drink. i wouldnt worry about it.. but then again it is still unnerving. im sorry you had that crappy experience..

Nowadays I feel that I tend to get more positive comments.

This weekend, I ran along a hiking course around a small island (but connected to the land) at night. Many people walk there even at mid night.

I could hear some comments by a family behind me. The dad suddenly talked to her daughter at 10s or 20s like "Look at that lady. You have to exercise regularly to have a body shape like hers." Her daughter replied like "Even exercise can not make me have a body shape like hers. In her case, her physical build supports it, but not me". I guess her term of physical build means my height. The whole family kept chatting on me, but I ran faster to avoid any possible embarrassing moment.

Also, in stores, some woman employees easily comment on me like "I thought you were a girl. Your legs are so long and slim!" I reply like "Don't I look like an aged woman?" They always say like "No. You look like a young girl." I thought my biological age should make them call me Mrs., not Miss.

Last week, I had dinner with my male colleague, and he openly talked to the owner of the restaurant that I am a man. But the owner, an aged woman, was so much surprised to comment again and again on me like "Are you really a man? When I saw you entering here, I thought a pretty girl came in. You are so pretty. But frankly speaking, your face is pretty rather than beautiful." I replied like "My mind is more feminine."

And, nowadays, even my mother in law and brothers in law also tend to give positive comments jokingly like "You really look like a girl". And they smile.

I do not know well why attitude of people suddenly changed. My attire? My facial cosmetics? Well... I have to investigate more.

Barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on July 25, 2010, 12:35:14 PM
I do not know well why attitude of people suddenly changed. My attire? My facial cosmetics? Well... I have to investigate more.

Barbie~~

Well, whatever you're doing it's working ^_^