Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It's summer here.. Yayyy.. Just when I thought 'passing' was going well, I now have to walk the streets 'half naked' just because it's too hot to wear a lot of clothes, and because it would look weird(er) to wear too many clothes. I'm pre-hormones and I wear femenine clothes, but nothing 'too femenine' if you know what I'm saying. Despite that, I've been mamm'ed consistantly for more than a year now. To my own surprise actually. I hated previous summers and it looks like I will hate this summer too. I know I should be enjoying the wonderful weather, but I just can't. I just don't see myself going to the beach or a swimming pool or even a park.. I really have a hard time finding suitable clothes for these hot summer days. I just don't look good in a spaghetti top.. It seems impossible to hide what I'd like to hide and nothing seems to look right. I don't wear breastforms but on these hot 't-shirt days' I get very self-conscious about not having breasts (among other things). If I would wear breastforms though I would probable get self-conscious about my too-masculine or androgynous face.. I keep wondering if I would freak out people less if I would have breasts..

Anyway, this morning I was walking the streets wearing black patent slippers, skinny jeans, a sleeveless femenine top, and magenta sunglasses. Nothing too daring, if you ask me, yet an outfit that I'd probable also would have worn if I was born female. A woman came walking towards me, looked at me, and gave me the 'angry look'. She didn't say a thing, but just by giving me that look she really ruined my day. (While I am writing this I realise that I assumed that she was giving me that angry look because she saw a 'man in a dress' so to speak, but I can't be 100% sure if that was why she looked at me the way she did). It's not the first time that I got the 'angry look' from a stranger on the streets. It's happened a couple of times before. I think the previous time I got that was last summer.. Appearantly (?) I don't pass well in summers. When I left my house this morning I wasn't feeling too bad at all, but after this woman gave me that look I just wanted to go home and cry. Which I did by the way, as soon as I could (after being hit on by a couple of guys, which I didn't like too). I didn't feel like crying because I didn't pass, but because of the aggression that I felt from this woman's look. I can deal with the 'surprised look' and with the 'questioning look' and even with the 'horny look', but I just don't know how to deal with the 'angry look'. That look just hurts too much and I feel like I don't deserve it at all. I've been feeling bad all day because of it and I just can't stand it that I let it get to me so badly. I tell myself that she was probable just ignorant, but it doesn't help me a bit.

Do or did you ever get the 'angry look'? How do or did you deal with it?

I'm wondering if I should learn how to ignore these type of non-verbal responses if that's possible at all, if I should start a discussion with people if I have the chance, or if I should do something else to deal with it. What do you think? I've just had enough of people responding to my T* and ruining my day, but in the end it is me who let's them ruin my day..

Have you considered that maybe she was jealous of something?

That's usually what the angry look is about... Unless she has bought the same something and hates to see someone else wearing it

Ten to one odds if you ever see her again she'll be wearing something similar but just a bit different

I've never got the Angry Look, but I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.

I agree that summer is difficult. A wig is stifling, and the breast forms get sticky, and I don't really want to show up in a tank top because my shoulders are kinda deep. Fortunately, I've discovered the joys of going bare-legged under a skirt and wearing sandals. I have some nice thong sandals with beaded straps, and they're every bit as sexy as heels! And plus, I've got great legs for my age.

There will always be angry people in the world, and people who feel called upon to radiate hatred. If you go cruising around the blogophere (search for 'transgender' on Wordpress, for instance) you'll find a few items from people who really do believe that we're the pawns, or the spawn, of Satan. Which means we're the Enemy.

I mean, who's the crazy person here ... someone who is trying to find a way to be happy, or someone whose belief system includes Satan as an active entity? But these sad, misguided people will always be part of the world we live in. The best we can do ... I remember seeing a documentary once on a guy who worked with wild animals. He had been bitten by poisonous snakes, gored by animals with horns, slashed by a cheetah, bitten by a crocodile, who knows what all! And he never, ever took it personally. When the interviewer asked him about a particular incident, he would just smile and say, "I guess the crocodile was having a bad day."

So yeah, the woman you saw was just having a bad day. Nothing to do with you.

Hugs!

*** Jenna ***

(Blogging about gender at jennawillow.wordpress.com)

Yup, actually there's a better chance of her having a bug in her something that had nothing to do with you

Even better chance she gave several folks the angry look and they all walked off thinking WTF is her prob?

I didn't get an angry look. I got a face screwed up in disgust, only happened once, and it was from this stupid moron blonde bimbo, so it doesn't count.

you got the Angry Look because she saw you as a male or more specifically as 'one of those transsexuals who RAPE WOMEN by trying to be one' as Janice Raymond put it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Raymond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janice_Raymond)

scan down to the paragraph Writings on Transsexualism to see what she thinks of transsexuals.

I think her attitude is clouded by the fact that she is long term lesbian/failed nun with a lot of mental baggage connceted to excessive ingestion of estrogen.

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Post Merge: June 25, 2010, 03:12:49 AM

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forgot the most important bit: one day you will pass nicely and then like I did yesterday you will walk on town and hear two women say 'she looks nice' and a few minutes later in work the guys fixing the radiators murmured 'very nice' as I squeezed past them.

Quote from: Virginia Marie on June 24, 2010, 09:04:59 PM
Have you considered that maybe she was jealous of something?

That's usually what the angry look is about... Unless she has bought the same something and hates to see someone else wearing it

Ten to one odds if you ever see her again she'll be wearing something similar but just a bit different

Hi Virginia. I did realise that she might have looked at me the way she did for some other reason, but no, I didn't consider that she might have been jealous of something. It didn't 'feel' like that might have been the case, but I can't be sure. It's good to realise though that looks don't always have to be because of my T*. Whatever the reason was why she looked at me the way she did, I've learned a lesson today :) Thank you!

As it so happens I got an angry/disgusted look today. The first time I think. I was shopping at Meyers a big Dept store in Australia, I frequent my local one and have really good rapport with the women in the clothes area. A couple of them know me in my drab persona and have always been very nice and helpful. Such as you need a bigger size than that, or that colour is not you, and the saddest I think; this may be a bit young for you? I had to agree. So nice place. Went in today to buy a raincoat (opposite seasons to the USA we are in Winter). I had not had as much as a glance in a busy shopping mall. I got this cute coat reduced 50% with a further 30% of for today (end of financial season run out sales YEA). So I need this. Queued up with other women and this tart in her fifties said yes sir is this for you, with a look of total disgust. I was presenting totally female. She picked me on my voice (I presume). The attendant next to her, who I knew me from previous trips, and smiled to me, just looked horrified. I was so embarrassed and felt like crawling under the table, dieing, having a heart attack.  I went very cold and thought I was going to faint. I then went very angry. (BTW all these emotions seemed like ages but were in a seconds.) "Get the manager please." The woman I who recognized me I think pressed a panic button under the console and a very pleasant woman was there in a few minutes. In the mean time I was getting looks from all the other woman buying stuff because I'd been 'outed'. And there were about six or seven people. I was getting very steamy, trying not to cry, and starting to shake. I was taken away from the console by this woman and explained what had happened, still with my handbag open and purse exposed. For some reason this again upset me. "my money isn't of interest to you?' sort of statement, I was loosing it a bit and feeling very emotional. (Never felt like this before HRT :laugh:). The girl I knew was brought over and had a quick chat. The woman who upset me was brought over and had a short chat and stayed with the manageress. She asked me what I wanted as a resolution, and I just said, train your staff.

She went to the cash register did things and gave me the coat with an invoice of no charge. Damn should have gone for a more expensive coat  :laugh:. She said I was welcome to shop at Meyers any time. She then went of with the 'b***h. I presume to fire her. I would have.

We do have power. We do have rights. We are perfectly normal human beings.
Never give in to these people. So I went home and cried for about two hours.

Sorry I may have hijacked the thread (again)
Cindy

Quote from: CindyJames on June 26, 2010, 03:58:53 AM
We do have power. We do have rights. We are perfectly normal human beings.
Never give in to these people.

Well done, Cindy.

Any time someone stands up for herself, it's a step forward for all of us.

Quote from: CindyJames on June 26, 2010, 03:58:53 AM
As it so happens I got an angry/disgusted look today. The first time I think. I was shopping at Meyers a big Dept store in Australia, I frequent my local one and have really good rapport with the women in the clothes area. A couple of them know me in my drab persona and have always been very nice and helpful. Such as you need a bigger size than that, or that colour is not you, and the saddest I think; this may be a bit young for you? I had to agree. So nice place. Went in today to buy a raincoat (opposite seasons to the USA we are in Winter). I had not had as much as a glance in a busy shopping mall. I got this cute coat reduced 50% with a further 30% of for today (end of financial season run out sales YEA). So I need this. Queued up with other women and this tart in her fifties said yes sir is this for you, with a look of total disgust. I was presenting totally female. She picked me on my voice (I presume). The attendant next to her, who I knew me from previous trips, and smiled to me, just looked horrified. I was so embarrassed and felt like crawling under the table, dieing, having a heart attack.  I went very cold and thought I was going to faint. I then went very angry. (BTW all these emotions seemed like ages but were in a seconds.) "Get the manager please." The woman I who recognized me I think pressed a panic button under the console and a very pleasant woman was there in a few minutes. In the mean time I was getting looks from all the other woman buying stuff because I'd been 'outed'. And there were about six or seven people. I was getting very steamy, trying not to cry, and starting to shake. I was taken away from the console by this woman and explained what had happened, still with my handbag open and purse exposed. For some reason this again upset me. "my money isn't of interest to you?' sort of statement, I was loosing it a bit and feeling very emotional. (Never felt like this before HRT :laugh:). The girl I knew was brought over and had a quick chat. The woman who upset me was brought over and had a short chat and stayed with the manageress. She asked me what I wanted as a resolution, and I just said, train your staff.

She went to the cash register did things and gave me the coat with an invoice of no charge. Damn should have gone for a more expensive coat  :laugh:. She said I was welcome to shop at Meyers any time. She then went of with the 'b***h. I presume to fire her. I would have.

We do have power. We do have rights. We are perfectly normal human beings.
Never give in to these people. So I went home and cried for about two hours.

Sorry I may have hijacked the thread (again)
Cindy

Good for you! That must have taken so much strength, and you handled it very gracefully. I'm going to remember that story for future inspiration.

Quote from: CindyJames on June 26, 2010, 03:58:53 AM
So I went home and cried for about two hours.

Thanks for sharing this story, Cindy!!! You handled it beautifully. I'm on a diet, but I would have handled it with a bowl of ice cream. Or maybe a bowl and a half.

If your voice is getting you read, as you said you suspected, then that may be something to work on. You could buy an expensive DVD course ... or you could start by reading a few tips I put up on my blog (jennawillow.wordpress.com), which won't cost you anything. Your results may not be the same as mine, but I'm kinda liking my voice. Whether it will crack under stress ... ooh, I hope I don't have to find out anytime soon!

*** Jenna ***

Quote from: Riannah on June 25, 2010, 10:06:11 PMHi Virginia. I did realise that she might have looked at me the way she did for some other reason, but no, I didn't consider that she might have been jealous of something. It didn't 'feel' like that might have been the case, but I can't be sure.

Riannah, sometimes it's helpful to just assume that it has nothing to do with your transness. It often doesn't, you know.

Unless she said something obvious, you have no idea what was going on in that woman's mind. You might have been wearing a top that she had hanging in her own closet. You might have looked a lot like the gal who "stole" her boyfriend. She might have just been having a bad day and felt like giving poisonous looks to everyone she met.

I used to get a lot of hostility from women when I was living as a woman and doing my damnedest to fit in. I quickly figured out why...I wasn't wearing a bra. Most men liked that; some women just treated me like the worst pariah on earth. I didn't do it for attention; I did it because I had terrible skin allergies and was allergic to synthetic fabrics. Despite my best efforts, I was never able to find a bra that was one hundred percent cotton. Even the jog bras had enough Lycra to make my skin break out.

At one point, I was about a year into a new job, and some of the women were still cold to me. I mentioned it to a male coworker, and he brought up the bra issue first thing. Apparently, some women had been talking amongst themselves about my braless state, and he happened to overhear. I couldn't believe that after an entire year and a great reputation as a hard worker, I was being actively avoided because of something so stupid and petty. Especially because by then my eczema was no secret to most people in the company.

My point is that people have all sorts of weird stuff in their heads that affects how they respond to you but that you'll probably never be privy to. Very little of it is related to transsexuality.

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Post Merge: June 26, 2010, 11:53:41 AM

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Quote from: lilacwoman on June 25, 2010, 03:07:52 AMyou got the Angry Look because she saw you as a male or more specifically as 'one of those transsexuals who RAPE WOMEN by trying to be one' as Janice Raymond put it.

I suppose this is remotely possible, but how can you know this unless you're a mind-reader!! ???

We do have power. We do have rights. We are perfectly normal human beings.
Never give in to these people. So I went home and cried for about two hours.
Sorry I may have hijacked the thread (again)
Cindy
[/quote]   
I am very good at putting Formal Complaints in to management of places where I get that treatment.
Latest was last week in large retail chain store.  It was quiet so the security guard gave me a very long look over then out of corner of my eye I saw him go over to the cashier and gesture in my direction.. I chose the lipstick and nailpolish and went to pay. the guard saw me coming and slid away on his belly.  the cashier said Sir>  I said what did you call me?  Do you call every woman who comes in here wearing a pretty skirt and top and all the trimmings 'sir?'.  Call the manager please.
$40 voucher is in th email to me.

Quote from: lilacwoman on June 27, 2010, 02:40:13 AM
We do have power. We do have rights. We are perfectly normal human beings.
Never give in to these people. So I went home and cried for about two hours.
Sorry I may have hijacked the thread (again)
Cindy
   
I am very good at putting Formal Complaints in to management of places where I get that treatment.
Latest was last week in large retail chain store.  It was quiet so the security guard gave me a very long look over then out of corner of my eye I saw him go over to the cashier and gesture in my direction.. I chose the lipstick and nailpolish and went to pay. the guard saw me coming and slid away on his belly.  the cashier said Sir>  I said what did you call me?  Do you call every woman who comes in here wearing a pretty skirt and top and all the trimmings 'sir?'.  Call the manager please.
$40 voucher is in th email to me.

Totally agree. I felt so much better today that I had stood up for myself. I will never tolerate that sort of behaviour again. I was very pleased that management were so quick to act. OK they are in the money game and our money is as good as anyones, so they may be acting purely in self interest. But as in any sort of discrimination unless you stand for your principles they will never be upheld.

I went back to the store this afternoon. Wearing my rather cute coat, original price $215, reduced to $112 then a further 30% discount, and finally sold for an insult. The girl who I knew was behind the counter, saw me smiled and waved. She was busy and I wasn't buying anything so I didn't go and talk to her, I was just 'getting back on the horse'. I didn't see the woman who was rude to me.

Funny though that is the first time I have ever had a bad reaction. So girls do not be put off shopping. In fact it empowers us all. Shops want our money are happy to help and if an individual has a problem in not wanting to serve a respectful, non-drunk, non-violent customer who has the finances to purchase her wares. Then management will kick ass, just be brave and do it.

Hi, Riannah. I guess your fashion did not look tasteful to the eyes of those woman.

In my case, some women frown when I expose my body too much. My home town is relatively cool in summer compared with other areas, and aged women tend to wear capris or long trousers. I once wore like my avatar here (with hot denim pants), and a neighbor, who is a friend of my wife, looked silly after seeing me in my apartment. Later she commented to my wife like "Your hasband has better go out naked!" Usually she admires my body shape and some fashion styles, but exposing too much made her frown at me. Also, exposing my belly also tends to make women frown.

Whether I pass or not, women here tend to smile at me far more frequently than men.

Barbie~~

I am curently in the gender f*** state. About 5 weeks ago I was walking through the walmart parking lot and a woman walking my way literaly came to a full stop with a look of surprise on her face. A second later she started moving again and didn't look at me again. I wanted to tell her to f*** off the second she walked past but I just held my tounge.

These things happen. These things just serve to remind me that my deportment needs working on. (also only being 8 months into HRT at age 42 is kinda going against me)

These things happen. These things just serve to remind me that my deportment needs working on. (also only being 8 months into HRT at age 42 is kinda going against me)
[/quote]

deprtment?  you mean female body language?  lol You'll get thrown out of here for suggesting, to quote yourself 'we don't need you saying what is and isn't trans.'

a MtF transsexual with female body and face language passes better,.

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Post Merge: June 28, 2010, 01:41:16 AM

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I suppose this is remotely possible, but how can you know this unless you're a mind-reader!! ???
[/quote]

female intuition?

Getting these looks from people can really ruin your day.
Had a similar experience yesterday. As it is rather hot here, I was out in a dress (first time I wore a dress in pubic, so I did not feel overly confident in the first place), but decided to return to my car instead of continuing shopping after a few people looked funny at me. My self-confidence went down in no time.

Marleen

Good to see you had a win Cindy.  :) I will be interested to see how I go tomorrow morning in Myer and Target. Drab mode but will be getting a bit more of a wardrobe together.

Quote from: lilacwoman on June 28, 2010, 01:39:03 AMfemale intuition?

Ah, yes. It's used in place of hard data in lots of double-blind experiments. ::)

Not strictly related since I don't dress up in public, but I got the "cough"-f****t-"cough" in the supermarket today and a trolley rammed into me. Was wearing a "feminine" shirt and fedora hat, and I have my hair tied in a pony.

It's things like this that make me wonder if this is such a good idea but then I realise it's not exactly an "idea" since it wasn't my decision to be born this way :).

LOL... Today a woman kept giving me angry looks... She was like following me around the market and making a point of giving me looks

I finally said "UM, is there a problem?"

She says "What's the matter dear, can't find a bra?" Then she traipsed off all snooty like "I told you"