Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone. I have the unfortunate characteristic of having a bass voice. Are there any differences in how someone with a very low voice should go about voice training than someone, say, with a tenor voice? I'd just like to know before I start my training so I know the most direct methods for my voice type.

Well, from a bass or higher pitched vocal range, it really comes down to how much you actually train your voice.
Sure you might have a bass voice right now, but give it time, and train your voice, you could end up with a very nice female range.

I'm quite lucky with voice, I did some very basic exercises with my voice, and now my baseline voice pitch is within the normal female range, then add inflection and alike, my voice sounds very female and is nice and passable.
Basically, for me, my voice seemingly naturally rose into the normal range, and then just went quite feminine. Maybe it was more psychological for me, and the more female I felt, the more female I sounded.

I doubt there would be much different in your approach.  How easy it will be. like others have said, depends on your range.  Don't think of your current range as being the limit though, you can learn to stretch it.  Like Vexing said, all of the other aspects of your speech play a bigger role than the pitch: tone, inflection, resonance, etc... even the words you use to describe things.

It's a process...

I think voice training, in a lot of cases, is just pushing it to be a bit higher and letting it adjust, gradually until it becomes normal at a female level. I will say that I've heard some EXTREMELY deep sounding voices become very natural sounding female voices.

Quote from: Jen on July 07, 2010, 12:56:35 AM
I doubt there would be much different in your approach.  How easy it will be. like others have said, depends on your range.  Don't think of your current range as being the limit though, you can learn to stretch it.  Like Vexing said, all of the other aspects of your speech play a bigger role than the pitch: tone, inflection, resonance, etc... even the words you use to describe things.

It's a process...

I've said this before, and had people disagree with me, but just to state my opinion, I don't think the actual words you use or the style of speaking you use will have almost any bearing on the actual gender your voice is perceived as being. It will absolutely affect how masculine or feminine it sounds in personality, but not in the actual gender.

In my opinion, the gender your voice sounds, is about pitch and resonance, with resonance being the more important of the two. If they both sound female, I don't think there's any chance your voice will be thought to be male no matter what you say with it, and vice verse.

I don't really disagree with you.  Just to clarify, I meant all of the other aspects together are more important than pitch, there are husky voiced girls that sound completely female.  But individually, pitch and resonance would be the top priorities.

Athrogal

Can you possibly book a few sessions with an actor's voice coach?

What I do know about these people is they have techniques and methods, based upon many years of research and study. They produce results simply because the people who rely upon them need to earn a living.

Just a thought.

Have you contacted a speech therapist?

Caroline

I am naturaly a very deep baratone, I feel the pain.

I can't get a passable voice down for anything but I keep trying.
My guess would be that we need more practice.

I have a baritone voice as well, so I know that I need help with voice training.  Although it has been a while, I did sing tenor in high school, and that did help train my upper and and falsetto, at least for the time.  I found that there is speech therapy available on my campus, so I am going to check them out.

I had a fairly low voice before I went to voice training and now I get ma'amed on the phone on problem, every time.

My voice teacher basically said there's not a lot of difference....it's more about your range than how low your voice is. You'll end up talking in a different range and in a different area (your mouth/throat instead of chest).

Here's me before I started voice training:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fABIOmJusQA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fABIOmJusQA#)

And here's me this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XQbVDFKsLA# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XQbVDFKsLA#)


Sandy Hirsch in Seattle does Skype sessions too. She's awesome: http://www.givevoice.com (http://www.givevoice.com)

Jerica,
I just wanted to let you know that I follow you on YOUTUBE and it's great to see your progression whether it be on voice or just life in general. You are one of few that inspire me to keep going.

Now for the other stuff...
I do believe that there are many Tgirls out there that don't pay enough attention to their voices. I am always incredibly surprised when a gorgeous Tgirl starts talking like James Earl Jones! I mean, why go through the whole process and then not give a hoot about your voice?
I'm in Voice-Over work primarily and it's been a little easier for me to get there. But still, I haven't gotten to the point that I can remember (LOL) to use it. I haven't fully transitioned yet...so I use my alone time to practice at home. I guess that's what it's about in the end; dedication and practice.

Quote from: ƃuıxǝʌ on July 07, 2010, 08:45:10 PM
Because they don't give a f**k about the opinions of people like you, are comfortable with themselves, comfortable with having a deep voice and are not particularly concerned about passing in general but are simply concerned with just being who they are?

Wow. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone on here at all.
I apologize if it offended anyone or you. I'm still new to the whole process ( I only recently started my own journey)so this was just an opinion based on how I perceived it outside of "the Family".
It was my understanding that most are trying to "pass" as female, but as you have pointed out to me it should start from within and not from those around you.
Although I thank you for "enlightening" me to this perspective, I would have maybe worded a bit more lady like. ;) But that's the beauty of this forum, we are free to express our own opinions in whatever form they be.
Peace,
Stephie

That was uncalled for vexing.  NOW BACK OFF.

This isn't a free for all it's about the pitch of our voices not a throwdown on someone just because they feel like working on the outside is as important as how they feel on the inside. For me I try to match my body and voice with that of what I picture my female self as in my mind.

Wow. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone on here at all.

Don't worry, it's impossible for mere humans not to a) trigger, b) insult, c) pick a fight with, Vexing no matter what you say.  So don't worry about it.

I actually did take an acting class my first year of college that went a little into making a decision as to where to derive your voice for a character: from the back of your throat or higher up. Also, playing tuba in high school, I learned to breathe from the very bottom of the diaphram. Should I speak from the top of my throat for a higher pitch, or does that sound artificial?

I don't think Vexing crossed the line. I think she is right this time.
Granted she has a habit of pissing us off but that shouldn't be grounds for censorship.

I agree that if a trans girl is happy with their voice and comfortable with it then good for her!

Now if she complains about it and people 'sir'ing her and such.....then thats different.

Vexing was not censored.

She's mysteriously vanished from the site account and everything. :(

Quote from: Anthrogal on July 07, 2010, 11:55:34 PM
I actually did take an acting class my first year of college that went a little into making a decision as to where to derive your voice for a character: from the back of your throat or higher up. Also, playing tuba in high school, I learned to breathe from the very bottom of the diaphram. Should I speak from the top of my throat for a higher pitch, or does that sound artificial?

I really don't know. All I do know about voice training is that it exists.  :)

Can you do some you tube videos or perhaps some short audio recordings with both?

Quote from: Anthrogal on July 07, 2010, 12:14:52 AM
Hi everyone. I have the unfortunate characteristic of having a bass voice. Are there any differences in how someone with a very low voice should go about voice training than someone, say, with a tenor voice? I'd just like to know before I start my training so I know the most direct methods for my voice type.

There are women with lower toned voices, the trick to it is 3 parts, pitch, intonation, and inflection.  To get your pitch was kinda easy, just start off by saying "Hello my name is X" and recording it then play it back till it sounds the most female or more female then you are now.  Then try reading the newspaper or articles or anything near you with that same voice, record and playback to yourself, make adjustments, try to remember what it sounds like to speak like that, because what your hearing when you speak is different from what someone else does due to resonance in your skull, so it might sound weird to you but when you hear it played back it sounds really good.  Their are other methods which help find your female voice like saying or singing vowels and such, i found that to be more tedious, i would try this method first as it takes less time.

Next is intonation or in other words the way pitch changes as you stress certain words or letters.  For example Oh my god, spoken by a man sounds different the Oh, my god.. spoken by a valley girl lol..  mens speech tends to be more monotone where the letters and words stay the same pitch and rarely deviate, women tend to stress and pause on certain words or syllables for this you really have to listen to women talk and try to style your pattern of speech to something your comfortable with it might come naturally.

After that inflection, inflexion is the modification of a word to express different grammatical categories such as tense, mood, voice, aspect, person, number, gender and case.   Like pausing after a higher pitch Oh.. then followed by a quick but lower pitch my god...  Now dont go imitating valley girl speech its really annoying but its a good example.  Also by being around women you pick up the inflections in their speach, you have to listen at first, but this too might just come naturally after being around women a lot. 

The main key is practice, i had a whole 6 hours of practice before i got a new job (while full time) and had to talk to people everyday in my new voice, after a while i cant talk anyway else, my throat hurts if i use my old voice, that and i look like i am possessed ^_^b.  So using it day to day in everyday life your body will adjust and you will get better and better, like anything it involves practice.  I had a low voice to start out with too but now i am always called miss or mam on the phone no matter what i do. 

I like the different perspectives on this topic. It really has helped me see things differently. I understand that it really is about how YOU feel not others around you. But, (and remember I'm new to this) don't most T-girls want to go "stealth"? Maybe I've been reading the wrong things I guess. Again, it wasn't that I was trying to be a smart-ass or anything or insult anyone, this was just based on what I was learning about. I mean, even for me, I doubt I will be able to completely pass and I am ready just to accept myself either way. I look for strength in all of you and also guidance.
I can now see where Vex was going with this, however, I think she pegged me for a different kind of person. My intentions on this forum are and never will be to insult or make anyone feel bad. I'm here to try and find guidance in a world that torments me already for being a male. It's been extremely hard for me and I hope to use this forum as a way to vent and feel better about myself and also make others that are enduring the same pain of being male feel better about themselves.
In regards to the voice lessons I found a plethora of videos on Youtube that helped me out. I think TS roadmap also has a few suggestions and/or videos.
Anthrogal I love your profile pic! See, you do look beautiful! Now, If I only had the chutzpah to post mine!

Thanks Izumi, that gives me hope! And Stephanie, you really don't have to worry about people being mean when critiquing your look. The people on this forum are probably the nicest I've encountered when they give suggestions. You should've seen the first picture I posted on the internet in women's clothing! I was 20 pounds heavier, wearing really cheap lip gloss, clothes that were way too baggy, and much shorter hair. Trust me, all trans girls and probably all cis girls have looks in our past that makes us want to drive our heads through a wall. It's all a process, and the sooner you get an outside eye regarding which looks do and don't work for you, the better.

Quote from: Anthrogal on July 08, 2010, 06:42:34 PM
Trust me, all trans girls and probably all cis girls have looks in our past that makes us want to drive our heads through a wall. It's all a process, and the sooner you get an outside eye regarding which looks do and don't work for you, the better.

Yep I can go back as far as 6 minutes ago to hate the last picture I took of myself hah

Izumi has managed to break down some of the parts. That does make things a little clearer.

To add to that, I have noticed that men tend to finish statements in a tone that closed the exchange.

Women tend to finish with a tone that is inviting more input.

Now, I know actors have this sort of thing down to a detailed science. I just don't have that level of knowledge. I once tried to use musical notation but it ended up being utterly ridiculous.

If you think of the statement, Oh my god! In the word god, there is a tendency to change tones while uttering the word itself.

With men, the pitch tends to drop at the end of the word. This makes it a definate statement. A closed discussion. If you want to add to or change the conclusion that has been established then you need to challange the position, even the status of the man who made it.

With women, the pitch tends to either raise at the end, or drop only half a tone as much as with males.

Both tend to invite further input.

Both these tendencies co-relate with the innate natures of men and women. Men being hierarchial, maintaining their positions with thir peer group.

Women being more group orientated, seeking co-operation, interaction, while maintaining their personal space, their nest.

I really hope this is not utterly confusing. I just wish I had taken some of those opportunities to learn more about acting. I feel a bit like I'm explaining to someone by saying, You take the thingie, and put it on the what-you-call-it.

Quote from: spacial on July 09, 2010, 04:24:24 AM
Izumi has managed to break down some of the parts. That does make things a little clearer.

To add to that, I have noticed that men tend to finish statements in a tone that closed the exchange.

Women tend to finish with a tone that is inviting more input.

Now, I know actors have this sort of thing down to a detailed science. I just don't have that level of knowledge. I once tried to use musical notation but it ended up being utterly ridiculous.

If you think of the statement, Oh my god! In the word god, there is a tendency to change tones while uttering the word itself.

With men, the pitch tends to drop at the end of the word. This makes it a definate statement. A closed discussion. If you want to add to or change the conclusion that has been established then you need to challange the position, even the status of the man who made it.

With women, the pitch tends to either raise at the end, or drop only half a tone as much as with males.

Both tend to invite further input.

Both these tendencies co-relate with the innate natures of men and women. Men being hierarchial, maintaining their positions with thir peer group.

Women being more group orientated, seeking co-operation, interaction, while maintaining their personal space, their nest.

I really hope this is not utterly confusing. I just wish I had taken some of those opportunities to learn more about acting. I feel a bit like I'm explaining to someone by saying, You take the thingie, and put it on the what-you-call-it.

Yes women use much more inflection than men. 5-7 tones on average while men only use 2-3 in any one sentence.

Quote from: Stephanie.Izann on July 07, 2010, 08:36:17 PM
Jerica,
I just wanted to let you know that I follow you on YOUTUBE and it's great to see your progression whether it be on voice or just life in general. You are one of few that inspire me to keep going.

Thanks! Glad to see so many people following me and my transition. Glad that I can help others just by being me. =)