Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Transsexualism Gene (http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/050511_transfrm.htm)

Scientists say they may have found genes that help explain why a tinypercentage of men see themselves as women, cruelly trapped in the wrong body. It is estimated to afflict about one in 30,000 men, some of whom follow through on their sense of their correct gender by getting sex-change operations.

Buffy

This makes sense in a lot of ways.

I was having a lot of difficulty trying to think how an excess of invitro estrogen could make a child transgendered when it triggers the male growth/behavior sequence in the embryo/fetus. 

An altered gene sequence creates a different protein.  Combining excess estrogen with this new protein could be the key to what causes ->-bleeped-<-.  Intuitively, this makes a world of sense.

Given the study, I wonder is excess estrogen in the womb without having the altered genetic sequence would tend to make a person gay or more masculine?

I know.  For a lot of us, it doesn't matter why we are transgendered, we simply are.  However, as you all know by now, I tend to be at least 6-sigma away from normal when it comes to things like this.  (Think of it as being that 0.001% on the tail end of the geek curve.)  Sorta like why Jonathan Seagull wanted to learn all about flight - I simply want to know.

Chaunte

Thin edge of the wedge.

So how long before gene markers are found to help weed us out of the population? Some women have openly admitted wanting to abort pregnancies where the foetus is found to be carrying Down Syndrome or even a cleft palate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51671-2005Apr13.html

Given the intolerance in the world, what chance would people like us stand against those who want to shape society in their own image?

Meh. Tired and depressed. Looking on the downside of things tonight.  ;)

Interesting article.  They seemed to have a pretty good handle on what transsexualism is too.  If they find the repeating gene to be the culprit, I wonder if there will come a time they try to correct that while the fetus is developing.  Personally I wish they would just accept there are people who don't fit society's image of male or female and open the doors to early transitioning.

Julie

I agree with Julie and i agree with heather!
suffice to say i am in agreement!
Feeling very agreeable this evening!
luv
ricki

There are two ways to look at this...

Someone will find a "cure" by resequencing the DNA.  I find that very disturbing.  Yes, I know that someone will do this, but the ethics involved are not to be ignored.  Dr. Frankenstein comes to mind...

OR, and I think more likely, we are such a small percentage of the population that no one will bother to "cure" us.

Besides, blocking this mutation could prevent ALL mutations from occurring.  No mutations means no adaptations.  No adaptation means nature will wipe us off the planet just as it did the T-rex and trilobite.

Evolve or die off...

Chaunte

Ricki,

I really hope that they find something concrete.  It'd be the beginning of the end of so much ignorance and bigotry.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

It would have been nice to be able to point to a medical reason for my situation.  I had nothing on my side to help explain the way I felt.  I needed something.  It doesn't matter to me personally now, I'll admit, but it could help others who have similar problems. 

This kind of research is truly at the mercy of the captialistic world.  There is not real reason to investigate it. I'm surprised to see this article.  I do hope that someone furthers the research to verify the theory suggested here.

A cure would be wonderful.  But if it is a genetic defect, they'll more likely be looking at terminating pregnancies.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindianna_Jones on November 25, 2006, 03:52:36 AM

A cure would be wonderful.  But if it is a genetic defect, they'll more likely be looking at terminating pregnancies.

Cindi

That's the thing that would bother me.

Quote from: Tinkerbell on November 25, 2006, 01:15:57 AM
I really hope that they find something concrete.  It'd be the beginning of the end of so much ignorance and bigotry.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Oh, I wish it was that simple, Tink!

Over half the U.S. population doesn't understand evolution, let alone agree with it.  I don't see the country ever understanding us, or even wanting to.  Its too easy to mark different as evil.

However, it should give us more clout in the courts. 

And maybe, just maybe, it might help our families better understand us. 

Chaunte

Quote from: Chaunte on November 25, 2006, 07:40:33 AM

Quote from: Tinkerbell on November 25, 2006, 01:15:57 AM
I really hope that they find something concrete.  It'd be the beginning of the end of so much ignorance and bigotry.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Oh, I wish it was that simple, Tink!

I am aware that if something were found, the changes wouldn't happen automatically (maybe not even in this century), but it would make things a tiny bit easier.

QuoteOver half the U.S. population doesn't understand evolution

Not only evolution but many, many, many other things.  It is amazing to think that we are considered the most industrialized nation in the world, and many of our highschool graduates don't even know how to read fluently.....but again that is a different subject, and I'm off topic again.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

It's been a running train of thought (on my railroad anyway) that a large part of my gender identity problem is testosterone poisoning; now it's actually estrogen poisoning!?  ::)

              I hope they find the biological cause for transsexualism soon. It will help most of us but what if there are a few who do not have the gene?  What will they face?






beth

I posted this story as any medical breakthrough in understanding the cause of Transsexualism is a step forward medically.

It also raises a questions of ethics in many areas, we have already had  there may be a cure (which may or may not be a good thing), It would pressumably be of interest to insurance companies, knowing that people carry the "Transsexual Genes"

One extreme outcome is that being a known carrier of the genes, at a young age males could be castrated and given low does of hormones before puberty, to better prepare them for transition and reduce the effect of testosterone.

Parents could also opt for elective abortion, which again becomes a possibility given societies lack of understanding of Transsexualism.

Perhaps we are better off not knowing the cause?

Buffy

The other day I was watching the Discovery Health Channel, and they were talking about genetic diseases such as porphyria, Down syndrome, cystic fibrosis and so on.

Nowadays, parents know, before the baby is born, if their child is going to be born with these genetic conditions, and they already have options (i.e, termination of pregnancy, experimental procedures, adoption, or nothing at all)  So the way I see it, if TS'im can be recognized as a genetic condition by the medical community, not too much is going to change as far as society's views.

As I mentioned above, decades or perhaps centuries will have to pass in order for society to be educated about the complexities of gender identity.  Now, Beth pointed out something very important....what about those who don't have the gene?  will they be treated as something "less" human just because they don't carry a genetic footprint?

I personally think that we're better off not knowing the cause.  Our focus should be to educate the public and not to find reasons for what we are or we are not.  Just my thoughts.


tinkerbell :icon_chick: 

QuoteNowadays, parents know, before the baby is born, if their child is going to be born with these genetic conditions, and they already have options (i.e, termination of pregnancy, experimental procedures, adoption, or nothing at all)  So the way I see it, if TS'im can be recognized as a genetic condition by the medical community, not too much is going to change as far as society's views.

This is interesting.  If parents were to know before hand and the pregnancy isn't terminated just imagine how lives would change knowing parents knew of the condition before all the guilty feelings and remorse ever starts.  Of course the problem would be would they be on your side to encourage and help children through all of this?

Recognizing that it's a medical condition and not a mental condition is the biggest step IMHO.

Gill

The one in 30,000 is an old number, by about 4 decades.

Here is the link to the research (http://mathnet.kaist.ac.kr/papers/Chalmers/Staffan/sdarticle2.pdf) that was the basis of the article.  Warning, it is a PDF (http://www.adobe.com/) file.

Estimating the Prevalence of Transsexualism (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html) by Lynn Conway.

ABSTRACT:
In this investigative report we calculate an approximate value of the lower bound of the prevalence of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism in the United States, based on estimates of the numbers of sex reassignment surgeries performed on U.S. residents during the past four decades. We find that the prevalence of SRS is at least on the order of 1:2500, and may be twice that value. We thus find that the intrinsic prevalence of MtF transsexualism must be on the order of ~1:500 and may be even larger than that. We show that these results are consistent with studies of TS prevalence emerging in recent studies in other countries. Our results stand is sharp contrast to the value of prevalence (1:30,000) so oft-quoted by "expert authorities" in the U.S. psychiatric community to whom the media turns for such information. We ponder why that community might persist in quoting values of prevalence that are roughly two full orders-of-magnitude (a factor of ~100) too small. Finally, we discuss the challenge that our much larger and more realistic numbers present to the medical community, public health community, social welfare community and government bureaucracies.

Quote from: Buffy on November 27, 2006, 01:51:20 AM

One extreme outcome is that being a known carrier of the genes, at a young age males could be castrated and given low does of hormones before puberty, to better prepare them for transition and reduce the effect of testosterone.

I couldn't disagree more.  While everyone one of us probably wishes they transitioned in grade/primary school, what you're suggesting is essentially forcing someone to transition irrespective of what they may choose for themselves at a later date.  Chemical castration is one thing and it can be undone.  Permanent castration is just inviting a host of much more complicated medical problems.

Quote from: Chaunte on November 24, 2006, 09:57:23 PM
No mutations means no adaptations.  No adaptation means nature will wipe us off the planet just as it did the T-rex and trilobite.

Evolve or die off...

Chaunte

Yes, and so many can't understand that.  People want everyone to be alike and perfect, from their point of view.  If they find the gene or the process by which mind and body don't meld with gender I hope they won't play God and try to alter it or worse, as Cindi said, terminate pregnancys.  Just accept it as a natural process and allow the child to develop in a way that is most natural to him/her.

Julie

Other then the karmic reprecussions to my parents, I would have preferred to have been aborted.

Quote from: Laura Elizabeth Jones on November 27, 2006, 12:10:54 PM

Well, speaking for myself, if someone had told me that I could have transistioned in my late childhood/early teenage years, I would have been very happy with that, but that is just how I feel.

Ditto! :)

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Quote from: beth on November 27, 2006, 12:56:45 AMIt will help most of us but what if there are a few who do not have the gene?

Exactly. And the article seemed to say that longer mutated sequences increases the chance of being TS. I would hate to think that whether you were considered a good candidate for SRS depended on the length of the sequence.

I thank the scientists kindly for their research (and while you're at it, how about looking into us androgynes?) but the group that really should be putting the money into research is the Psychiatric community. (Please correct me if I've got that wrong.) Concentrate on the "is" not the "could be".