Susan's Place Transgender Resources

When do you think the US government will come clean about the UFOs?  Or are they themselves in the grips of a shadowy world government that knows no laws?  I'm tired of hearing the lame cover stories and the terrorizing of American citizens into silence.  Transpeople would be better off if everyone was worried about the ongoing alien colonization efforts instead.  We can't let these black helicopters & MIB folks tell us what we should think, control us with their billions of dollars of mind-control research.  Anyone with half a brain knows why we haven't sent astronauts back to the moon, and why we don't want anyone on Mars.

Err...

I think something is up honestly, but I'm not drawing the same conclusions as you seem to be.

Putting people on Mars is really risky and really ->-bleeped-<-ing hard, not to mention there's not much money either.

The international UFO society( don't remember it'a actual name) closed itself down as they realised that despite all the video cameras and phone cameras in the world now, there were still no decent videos of UFOs.   

whoah, whoah, whoah, last time I checked there is tons and tons of evidence of visitation, it's almost always covered up though :-(  the US government is by far the worst, France & Belgium are surprisingly liberal though, France released all it's UFO records a few years ago I think, you simply cannot deny thousands upon thousands of reports from people all over the world and throughout time, that's how they want you to think

The aliens are not aliens.......
They are from here on earth.
How much longer was life in the oceans than on land....?
Occams razor people.....
Where is the only planet we know of that can suport life? Earth.

Saying extraterrestrial aliens don't exist is like saying transpeople don't exist.  People are more comfortable denying things that disrupt their close-minded view of the world.

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Post Merge: July 12, 2010, 08:24:24 AM

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Ockham would disagree I think.  It's less suppositions to say that life forms from natural processes throughout the universe than to say that our particular planet is unique amongst billions.  Cross-reference your Fermi paradox lol.

Okay, seriously people, how is Occam spelled? I've seen all kinds of different spellings.

You may be right transnikki.

But think of it this way.

There are people who originated on a planet, unimaginably far away. Traveling at the speed of light, which as you know, is impossible, it would take years to get there.

They come here. So, we know, their technology is far ahead of ours. Hundreds, possibly thousands of years, in relative terms.

With such advanced beings, do you really think there is anything you or even every one of us can do?

Ockham is a place, like Kelvin of the Kelvin scale.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_Ockham)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor)


It is spelled Occam.

I put this in the politics section because even if there's nothing we can do, the people have a right to know.  We need to ramp up pressure on the government to stop the dumb coverups.  Venus & swamp gas is getting really old :-p.  Then they try to brainwash us so most Americans are dumb enough to believe it.  The stories leaked from NASA are really really scary though.  I wouldn't want to go up there either.

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Post Merge: July 12, 2010, 06:35:50 AM

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for the razor, they're both correct, I prefer the original spelling though

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Post Merge: July 12, 2010, 07:39:52 AM

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I've heard said before that the one thing that could unify humanity is either a planetary threat or the revelation that we're not alone.  Imagine a world where we're not black or white, cisgender or transgender, Christian or Muslim, but just human.  Yet the government thinks it can squander advanced weaponry off the aliens in exchange for them doing cattle mutilations and abducting citizens.  They're afraid of the political & international backlash from such a long coverup and I don't blame them, but it needs to get out.  They've got a hell of a closet (pun intended ;-) ).

I never said that there is no life elsewhere in the universe. I just said that I believe that the 'Aliens' that are here are not Aliens, they are indigenous. It would be far easier for an advanced species to hide from us on their own planet that we share with them, than it would be to get a spaceship across the vast void of deep space.

Once you break the Einstein barrier, interstellar travel is easy.  But actually yeah I do agree with you, personally I think there's a good chance our visitors are from the future.  Which only makes it worse actually, extraterrestrials could be understood to not care about our planet, but meddling with time is very very dangerous.

Quote from: transnikki on July 12, 2010, 09:07:19 AM
Once you break the Einstein barrier, interstellar travel is easy.

You make it sound so trivial. I've never heard of anyone calling superluminal speeds "Breaking the Einstein barrier", did you come up with that yourself?

As far as we can tell, there is no way to make anything with mass go faster then light, if there is a way to travel in space faster then light, it would most likely involve a shortcut of sorts.

Time crime eh?
I doubt messing around the timeline would do anything other than spawn alternate realities.

Pssh! There's no such thing as "time" as an independently existing phenomenon. Time's just a man made concept for better comprehending the flow of causality.
Tomorrow doesn't exist and we'll never experience it, for when the dawn breaks, it's always "today".
Yesterday is gone, deleted from existence, all we have is the memory of it, garbled and flawed and based on our biased perception more than reality.

As for the existence of Aliens. Surely, there's life on other planets, but intelligent? I don't know.
So advanced that they can travel across the galaxy? Well, if so, then why are they not so advanced that they need a human conspiracy to hide their existence? And why would they land here? of all places?

Time is the other aspect of space, and, as such, it does not imply causality at all.  It implies movement, about the cause of such movements, it speculates, but does not answer.

There was a particularly good sifi program on in the 70s called Blakes 7.

They got around the light speed problem by supposedly distorting time. The specifics were never gone into. This wasn't Star Trek, more a political alegory. But nice idea.

Time flows in the direction that entropy increases.

About superluminal craft, there are a lot of ways to do that without wormholes (spacetime shortcuts), even without invoking quantum theory.  The speed of light is only a limit in special relativity, which only applies in perfectly flat spacetime, which is by definition impossible (any mass anywhere in the universe will affect all points in spacetime since relativity is a classical theory).  The easiest way to make your ship go faster than light is to isolate it in it's own spacetime metric (a warp bubble).  Depending on the configuration, speeds at least several times the speed of light are possible, though of course it's all relative ;-).  And no I didn't make up the term Einstein barrier :-p.  It refers to the limit in special relativity (v = c) whereby subluminal & superluminal objects cannot reach.  It's slightly more specific than saying "speed of light," since there are theories whereby the Einstein barrier is not c_0 = 299,792,458 m/s.

It is estimated that on any given night, you could see over 100,000,000,000 stars in the milky way.

Now just for argument lets just say that one percent of those stars could have a planet that could support life. That is 1,000,000,000 that MAY support life.  Now lets say that one tenth of those planets are advanced enough to come here.  That is 100,000,000 planets that could come here.

Now lets just add that one percent will come here.  That is 1,000,000.  I think will take those odds.

We Are Not Alone.

The Fifth Column says hello... John Mays lives!

We are of peace, Always.

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2FtfAOLeI1dalPE78R0uZnSILyRZUP0CBb5Vpd45jzejeRuqRJcH8IBn1t-S%2AtWqrUjC64LTy1V8adFB18gj5JUpR5zEPMLjCE%2FVScottWolf2.jpg&hash=fe89f7ac083901e766dfd145bd718c862bfe5c91)
YUM!

If theres intelligent life out there, I'm pretty sure there smart enough to stay the eff away from here...

Seriously, look at the way humans treat humans who are different... Imagine what we would do to some other species.... yeah...

My final note on this... if there is intelligent life out there that has come to visit, shouldn't we be more worried about there super destroyers that are being sent to wipe out the horrible and dangerous human race than some conspiracy by our own governments?

A hyperspacial physicist, like I once was back when I did my degree in it, would tell you that in a 10 dimensional multiverse it is simply not necessary to travel fast, to go long distances in a short time. Instead you need only develop the means to access the other dimensions, which conveniently are much smaller, and take a short cut across them.

The brane which you call 4 dimensional spacetime is nicely folded in upon itself so that in the 10 dimensional field all points in space and indeed time are actually quite close to each other. All you need is a bit of understanding and some advanced technology.

But the truth is you are too late earthlings... for we walk un-noticed among you already. ;)

I think it was Carl Sagan who also presented the calculations, said that he did not believe Earth has been visited since there is a lack of space junk. It was in reference about how much junk we left on the Moon.
I like your theory Jenny, have you tried it in a London traffic jam? :laugh: :laugh:

Hugs

Cindy

Quote from: transnikki on July 12, 2010, 09:55:36 PM
About superluminal craft, there are a lot of ways to do that without wormholes (spacetime shortcuts), even without invoking quantum theory.  The speed of light is only a limit in special relativity, which only applies in perfectly flat spacetime, which is by definition impossible (any mass anywhere in the universe will affect all points in spacetime since relativity is a classical theory).  The easiest way to make your ship go faster than light is to isolate it in it's own spacetime metric (a warp bubble).  Depending on the configuration, speeds at least several times the speed of light are possible, though of course it's all relative ;-).  And no I didn't make up the term Einstein barrier :-p.  It refers to the limit in special relativity (v = c) whereby subluminal & superluminal objects cannot reach.  It's slightly more specific than saying "speed of light," since there are theories whereby the Einstein barrier is not c_0 = 299,792,458 m/s.

[citation needed]

While the universe is endless, matter is not.
The probability of life is quite low.
Life is on earth; the probability is fulfilled.

It is possible that there is life elsewhere. It is possible that that life is intelligent. It is possible that that life is more intelligent than humanity.
I don't think it is possible for that life to be here. You see; even íf worm-holes are real, which is qúíte debatable, to travel them would be rather silly. You'd never know where you'd end up, or how to get back. Or even if the way is linear.
Then comes another problem: The 'tube' would have to pass zero-space. Small surprise there: There is no space in zero-space. Space needs matter to be space. To do that without this tube would be to stop existing, in all logic, or to create a new universe in zero-space, as there is suddenly matter. Who knows what would happen?
Also: There is no evidence for alien life. That's why France and Belgium are so easy with giving up their reports for the public. It's just investigations leading to nothing, anyway. There is no cover-up.

Colonization of Mars would take decades. It requires quite a lot of factories, and quite a lot of fuel. In short: It possibly requires more money than any government hás. A program like that might bankrupt both the US and Europe.
Lessee.. We need lots of carbon, but we might get it there. Water.. Is probably present, though frozen. Nuclear energy: Check; we'll have to transport the power sources from Earth to there. Then transport the facilities. Build them. Find a way to trigger vulcanic activity. (A nuclear bomb might do, but it might just as well not.) Basically, you'd need a to transport a lot of finite resources from earth to there, because you need to tools to get to the local resources, which aren't plentiful to start with.
The moon: Only doable with biodomes. They require quite a lot of glass. There's a lot of silicone in the moon; sure. But are you really going to make the biodomes from the moon itself? How are you going to get the construction tools and factories?

I'm all for stopping the Alien Conspiracies.. But I'm afraid the only way to do that is for the believers to simply toss in the towel and call it a day. :P
It's not logical. Very cool, and perhaps even remotely possible.
But.. Even then, the theory runs into some trouble. First one: If that alien species is so superior, then why haven't they taken over yet? Oh; yes. Lizardpeople theories, like in V. But even then, we'd still use up their resources, so we're still competition. Cloak and dagger doesn't help; superior weapons do. That's not happening.
The other problem is the Earth's atmosphere. It's violent, ever-changing, and quite toxic. Humans can deal with it. All life on earth can deal with it. Who's to say some species from another planet can?
Of course; there's distance that forms a problem, but we've already talked about that. :)

Dryad;
Those are the very same reason I think that we are sharing this planet with anouther indiginous spiecies. Said species being the 'Aliens', are not aliens at all, they evolved here in the oceans or underground.
There is no conflict of resource needs if they have a diferant habitat than us (say deep ocean or subteranean ocean).

Thats my theory. They are not aliens, they are our neighbors.

Cynthialee: The keyword you used is 'Think.'
I think not.
But I'm quite fine with you thinking differently; it offers me a new way of looking at things. :D
I must admit it's the best theory so far. Hmm.... Thinking of Cephalopoda (Or however you write 'squids'), though... They would be the most successful option.

On the matter of colonising Mars.

The question is what for?

What exactly would anyone do there?

Quote from: rejennyrated on July 13, 2010, 03:19:07 AM

But the truth is you are too late earthlings... for we walk un-noticed among you already. ;)

That is what I tell my co-workers about transsexuals...

We walk among you already...

-Sandy

Quote from: spacial on July 13, 2010, 04:44:22 PM
On the matter of colonising Mars.

The question is what for?

What exactly would anyone do there?

Make Mars Bars?


Cindy

I for one welcome our new Martian overlords.

No, time doesn't imply causality. But the Standard Model does. And seeing as we're all made of Standard Model particles, that means it applies to us, too.

Of course, there are some valid solutions to the Einstein field equations (GR -- see: Kerr geometry) that violate causality (in the sense of having closed time-like loops) -- but there's no proof they are stable if you perturb them (i.e., try to send matter through them -- or even light). And you'd never want to get near any object that could support a closed time-like loop -- you'd either get ripped to shreds, hit a singularity, or get fried by blue-shifted in-falling microwave background radiation. Bummer!

But what do I know? :P

I know you're not talking in the same universe that most of the respondents are living in.

Yeah, well, what can I say? I'm an alien.

But I was responding to your comment on page 1, so I wasn't just talking to myself. :)

I'm not really here.  Mentally I'm buying Naugahyde furniture in Scottsdale Arizona.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 14, 2010, 04:35:50 AM
No, time doesn't imply causality. But the Standard Model does. And seeing as we're all made of Standard Model particles, that means it applies to us, too.

Of course, there are some valid solutions to the Einstein field equations (GR -- see: Kerr geometry) that violate causality (in the sense of having closed time-like loops) -- but there's no proof they are stable if you perturb them (i.e., try to send matter through them -- or even light). And you'd never want to get near any object that could support a closed time-like loop -- you'd either get ripped to shreds, hit a singularity, or get fried by blue-shifted in-falling microwave background radiation. Bummer!

But what do I know? :P

Nothing worse than talking to a person who knows what they are talking about :laugh: :laugh:

Now, what was the name of the worm that made the worm holes?

Cindy :laugh:
I'm not really here.  Mentally I'm buying Naugahyde furniture in Scottsdale Arizona.
[/quote]

Not buying furniture from IKEA, don't you have taste? :laugh: :laugh:

If these aliens are so bloody clever why do  they seem to land in Bringadogalong Creek, population 17, average IQ less?
Surely beings who can travel faster than light  would just plonk themselves down in the middle of Tokyo or somewhere significant. Either that, or watch from a distance hidden from our sight by their superior technology. 
Sorry, but it all sounds just a little bit like wanting someone to come and solve our problems for us witha wave of a magic wand.

@Janet, only about 6,000 stars are visible to the naked eye, same as the number of languages on our planet ;-)

@rejenny, I was only speaking about relativity (a classical theory), but yeah, quantum theory and beyond brings so many other ways too :-)

@Heartwood, look up Alcubierre metrics, that's the simplest (and first) superluminal metric proposed; it's been proven unstable since, but there's been a lot of further work done on it, many of which could be stable

@Dryad Z-space??  I haven't heard about that since I was reading Animorphs as a kid :-)  and we haven't gone back to the moon and we're not planning Mars missions not because of money but because the aliens are out there and our government is plotting with them, even the History Channel did a special on leaked NASA eyewitness accounts

@Cynthia, I've heard there's a possibility some dinosaurs survived the K-T extinction and subsequently evolved intelligence...  I'm putting my money on Bigfoot though

@Alyssa, check out the Bell theorem, time travel must be possible in order for quantum mechanics to work, most physicists (like Hawking) would rather ignore the evidence :-p same as the UFO-naysayers

@Meinoz, that's just a bad stereotype about country people, statistically UFOs are just as common in urban areas as rural ones, we even have at least two US Presidents who've (admitted they) seen them

@everyone, 3 pages woot!  I should find more controversial topics to post about lolz

wow the ego has landed

I'm not convinced that humans or any other species will ever be able to accomplish the kind of interstellar travel that would permit two alien species to meet.  We really don't know for sure if it is possible.

And even if it is possible, we would still need time to develop that level of technology.  Earth only has ten thousand year windows of warmth between ice ages.  We are on schedule for our next ice age to hit in about 200 years (give or take 1000 years).  Sorry to bear the bad news.  But I find it unlikely that our civilization and technology will survive that kind of global disaster.  And we don't even know what causes this meteorological cycle (though we suspect the ice caps melting shuts down the ocean currents and that does it).  Why would we leap to the conclusion that any other planets in the universe that can support life would be any different?  So if it turns out that all the other habitable planets do have such a cycle, that would likely prevent the kind of technological development that would lead to significant interstellar travel, assuming that such travel is even possible at all.

Quote from: transnikki on July 14, 2010, 07:13:12 AM
@Alyssa, check out the Bell theorem, time travel must be possible in order for quantum mechanics to work, most physicists (like Hawking) would rather ignore the evidence :-p same as the UFO-naysayers

False.

No information travel faster than light in the collapse of the wave function. The two outcomes on either side of  Bell's experimental apparatus are correlated, but they are not predictable in advance, and are therefore cannot transmit any information.

There are other problems, mainly stemming from the fact that Bell's theorem relies on the notion of an idealized measurement. Basically, you forgot to treat the whole system (including the experimental apparatus, not just the particle) in a consistent way -- i.e., with quantum field theory (since you're dealing with relativistic space-time intervals) ... but that's a whole different question.

Quote@Dryad Z-space??  I haven't heard about that since I was reading Animorphs as a kid :-)  and we haven't gone back to the moon and we're not planning Mars missions not because of money but because the aliens are out there and our government is plotting with them, even the History Channel did a special on leaked NASA eyewitness accounts

Yeah.. The problem is that my take on it can be verified, and actually hás, while yours can not. I am not familiar with your History Channel, as we don't have it in the NL, but I ám aware that eyewitness accounts aren't evidence of anything, and, in most cases, completely false. The truth of the matter is: People dó actually see what they want to see, instead of what's really (not) there. There is scientific evidence for this.

To be honest: I've never in my life heard about 'Z-space.' I don't know what an animorph is, either. A lifeless object that can change into an animated object and back to inanimate again? Might be an interesting theory, if only for amusement.

As for quantum: I'm sorry; most of it has already proven to be wrong. However, it works tremendously well on paper, so it will continue to be used until something better comes along. I like the string-theory fine-tuning, though. Anyway; what most people know about quantum is from 'What the Bleep do we know' and 'Down the Rabbit Hole.' Movies that are simply horrible in each and every way, and little more than a way to bring spirituality and magic and hope into science by using some sort of pseudo-scientific garble. If you ask me, that is.  :laugh:

Anyway; this is actually the point where I'm hoping a physicist would hop aboard and give us all an interesting lecture.  ;D

Well, I have one of those physics degrees, but I'd hardly call myself a "physicist" at this point.  Anyway, my lecture is upthread.  Don't know how "interesting" it might be though.

--I didn't read the full thread, I wanted to answer--

My view on space travel:  the ship moves space around it to be able to travel light-speed or whatever it's called.

Not really, but I love the concept.

Personally, I think aliens out there and always have.  I think there are intelligent species out there, and that if they are intelligent enough to have fast enough space travel, then they are more like nomads who have depleted the sources on their own planet so they go from planet to plant that has life on it and that Earth is just one of the planets out there happens to have life so they might be investigating to see if the sources are similar to the ones they need.  Any aliens that have lightspeed travel or whatever you want to call it and comes to Earth probably isn't a friendly species.  It's one thing that I agree with Stephen Hawking about (turns out he thinks aliens are likely, too).

I can't get all scientific in my answer because I'm not a scientists and can only go off what I think, but I'm one of those people who swears Champ and Nessie are real, that Bigfoot is roaming around out there, and that various critters might have survived the many mass extinctions but hidden deep down in the ocean to where the effects wouldn't be felt as readily.

Quote from: glendagladwitch on July 14, 2010, 08:14:37 PM
Well, I have one of those physics degrees, but I'd hardly call myself a "physicist" at this point.  Anyway, my lecture is upthread.  Don't know how "interesting" it might be though.

Actually; I was quite happy with it, but was thinking more about a space-time lecture.  ;D

You are quite right, though.

Quote from: Dryad on July 15, 2010, 08:47:55 AM
Actually; I was quite happy with it, but was thinking more about a space-time lecture.  ;D

You are quite right, though.

Well as an ex physicist and hyperspatialist I could perhaps give it a go - but it would involve a lot of multi-dimensional high order differential equations and other mathematical goo so I figure you would all be asleep by the end.

My recommendation would be to get hold of the excellent books of the subject written by Michio Kaku, in particular:

Hyperspace: A Scientific Odyssey Through Parallel Universes, Time Warps, and the Tenth Dimension (1994, ISBN 0-19-286189-1)
Beyond Einstein: The Cosmic Quest for the Theory of the Universe (1995, ISBN 0-19-286196-4)
Kaku, Michio (2004). Parallel Worlds: The Science of Alternative Universes and Our Future in the Cosmos. London: Allen Lane. ISBN 0713997281.

All three of which are pretty excellent.

Yeah.. Equations are só not my thing...
But I'm quite okay at written language in the multi-dimensional, so if you could... *puppy-dog eyes*
Nah; don't bother. I'll see if I can get some PDFs, instead. :P

I don't think Alien Existence is even a question. There is far Too Much Evidence to Say Aliens Don't Exist.
When Will They Come out?
They Already Are :)

@Glenda, we survived the last ice age with fire & wooden spears, I think we'll do just fine in the next one ;-) I'd recommend watching The Day After Tomorrow lol

@Alyssa, yes yes, but even though you can't send useful information, time travel is still possible ;-) with so much undiscovered physics, there's no reason an advanced race can't have that kind of tech
/
@Rejenny, I'm an ex-physicist too, worked in hadron physics at JLab

@Dryad everything oughta be on ArXiv

@Heartwood I forgot I did have some links on my website, http://personal.frostburg.edu/nlsharp0/tgnicole/SN/links.htm#academic (http://personal.frostburg.edu/nlsharp0/tgnicole/SN/links.htm#academic), the "Modern Relativity" one was super excellent for beginners but it seems to have gone down :-( I'm going to have to hunt after that one to see if it got moved...

Just my two cents, but I feel people who wholeheartedly believe in things like the speed of light and moving only forward in time as impossible barriers are seeing the world as flat, as the expression goes :-(.  If anything, physics has shown us that all are most cherished beliefs throughout history are only there to change and always riddled with exceptions, right now we have a Ptolemaically tardyonic and retarded worldview, and like Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Feynman, etc. we need another paradigm shift to get over that.  (For the nonphysicists, "retarded" means traveling forward in time, "advanced" means moving backward in time ;-) ).

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Post Merge: July 15, 2010, 10:12:30 PM

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@Rejenny, I have Kaku's book, I'd really recommend Nick Herbert's Faster Than Light: Superluminal Loopholes in Physics for a layman's overview of FTL methods, including some very interesting relativistic ones ;-)

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Post Merge: July 15, 2010, 11:14:58 PM

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Kip Thorne's Black Holes & Time Warps: Einstein's Outrageous Legacy is a good layman's classic too on the subject, loved that one :-)

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Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 12:20:07 AM

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a good way would be to become head of a multibillion-dollar aerospace corporation, launch an army of satellites around the sun to monitor solar activity, plug the data into an incredible supercomputer to predict a good flare, then break into Cheyenne Mountain, and jump through the stargate to a destination where the wormhole will pass through the flare with just the right timing & energy to send you back in time woots ;-)

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Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 01:21:11 AM

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dunno why everyone wants to go to the past anyways lol, the future's where all the fun is, nanotech is gonna make transitioning AWESOME :-D

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Post Merge: July 16, 2010, 02:31:30 AM

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for all you crazy futuretech alien fanatics, I put up another topic ;-) https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,80791.msg563478.html#msg563478 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,80791.msg563478.html#msg563478)

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 01:43:30 AM
@Glenda, we survived the last ice age with fire & wooden spears, I think we'll do just fine in the next one ;-) I'd recommend watching The Day After Tomorrow lol

I didn't say I thought humans would become extinct.  Rather, humanity will be reduced once more to using fire and wooden spears.

Day After Tomorrow was a good movie.   ;)

Quote from: glendagladwitch on July 17, 2010, 07:13:39 AM
I didn't say I thought humans would become extinct.  Rather, humanity will be reduced once more to using fire and wooden spears.

Day After Tomorrow was a good movie.

I highly doubt that. Enough of us know the basic principles of generating electricity and rodio waves.
Enough of us know enough about firearms to make them from scratch.
Enough of us know the principles of the internal combustion engine to make them also.
You can go ahead and play spears, I am going to be over with some scientists atempting to rebuild our tech.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 17, 2010, 07:17:59 AM
I highly doubt that. Enough of us know the basic principles of generating electricity and rodio waves.
Enough of us know enough about firearms to make them from scratch.
Enough of us know the principles of the internal combustion engine to make them also.
You can go ahead and play spears, I am going to be over with some scientists atempting to rebuild our tech.

Check out "When Sysadmins Ruled the Earth" by Cory Doctorow.

A very interesting take on the end of the world.

*Spoiler*

Google survives.

-Sandy

There was a sifi series on in the 70s, called Suvivors. Basically, most humans died and the few that were left were the story.

One episode stand out, where a group continued living a reasonably confortable life until they ran out of tinned food!

Kinda makes you think.

I have an allotment and grow food. But I could never hope to produce enough to feed myself even, for a year, let alone anyone else.

Quote from: transnikki on July 16, 2010, 01:43:30 AM
@Alyssa, yes yes, but even though you can't send useful information, time travel is still possible ;-) with so much undiscovered physics, there's no reason an advanced race can't have that kind of tech

That does not in any way address anything I said. In fact, the part I put in boldface makes no sense whatsoever.

You say there is "no reason" it's impossible. That assertion is unsupportable, unless you (or someone else) can build and demonstrate such technology. There might well be a very good reason: that the physics required simply does not exist.

I am a bit skeptical of the existence of ufo's or aliens but I will admit their possibility.

I want proof and evidence that I can see.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 12, 2010, 08:21:35 AM
The aliens are not aliens.......
They are from here on earth.
How much longer was life in the oceans than on land....?
Occams razor people.....
Where is the only planet we know of that can suport life? Earth.

Going for that whole atlantean premise I see.  I've heard similar new theories of them coming from the ocean instead of space on television but as usual I remain a die hard skeptic and empirical materialist.

Quote from: Miniar on July 12, 2010, 10:08:15 AM
Pssh! There's no such thing as "time" as an independently existing phenomenon. Time's just a man made concept for better comprehending the flow of causality.
Tomorrow doesn't exist and we'll never experience it, for when the dawn breaks, it's always "today".
Yesterday is gone, deleted from existence, all we have is the memory of it, garbled and flawed and based on our biased perception more than reality.

As for the existence of Aliens. Surely, there's life on other planets, but intelligent? I don't know.
So advanced that they can travel across the galaxy? Well, if so, then why are they not so advanced that they need a human conspiracy to hide their existence? And why would they land here? of all places?

Agreed.  Most likely some sort of other primitive  life forms do exist but whether or not they are intelligent is somthing else.

Why would they want to come to earth?   To be humored maybe........

Quote from: The Original Cami on July 13, 2010, 01:02:43 AM
The Fifth Column says hello... John Mays lives!

Until they get their hands on him!

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.tvfanatic.com%2Fimages%2Fgallery%2Faliens-on-v.jpg&hash=556da13d4e893b1fe88002c777646859c4deb3d8)

I find it hard to believe that our government could organize ANYTHING, let alone a massive trans-national cover up...

We can't even pass a decent environmental bill through congress!

Aliens heh I am pretty skeital of their existence. I've seen pleanty of UFO videos and what nots on the telly before but not enough to proove anything to me. If they exist then they exist if they don't they don't. But if they do exist they better leave me alone.

I am open to the idea that there could be some kind of life form on distant planets in the galaxy, but I do not for one minute believe any higher life form has visited earth in space ships.  Pure fiction.   ;D

I have had dreams that included aliens, but have dismissed them as only dreams

Wonder if there are aliens dreaming of Terrans, but just dismissing them as dreams

Old post!  ;D not even 2% of an atom is solid matter. The rest is vacume. This makes the possibilities endless. If conscious energy believes and knows that ET life exsists then you will see it. Doesnt mean it came from space or ocean or deep past.

Convince the world they exsist and are hostile through the subconsciouse, ( Independance day, battlefield LA, ect.) suppress all technologies for 40 years but entertainment technology to keep everyone looking away.

Stage an alien invasion in front of the world with that supprest technology and offer a world militerized government to the people to keep them safe. The people in a panic will accept.

Totaliterian hell on earth and servitude to all matter will me the futur after that.

The possibilities are endless. Reality is only what the mind sees it to be.

LOL... I'd forgotten about this thread  :laugh:

Anyway, I was watching a show on the History Channel and they were talking about various ancient civilizations depicting aliens in their writings and drawings

http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens (http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens)

I found it interesting that even ancient people were talking about aliens  :laugh:

Ever hear of the hollow earth theory?
Yep thats where they are coming from. Right under us!

Quote from: Virginia Marie on March 27, 2011, 05:16:23 PM
LOL... I'd forgotten about this thread  :laugh:

Anyway, I was watching a show on the History Channel and they were talking about various ancient civilizations depicting aliens in their writings and drawings

http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens (http://www.history.com/shows/ancient-aliens)

I found it interesting that even ancient people were talking about aliens  :laugh:

History Channel puts out so much falsified propaganda I cannot even watch it anymore. And yes. I`m sure ever since the first person looked up  thought of life out there. Inteligant humanoids that can survive on our gas compounds at the same time and age as us is mathimatically impossible. Cell life. I`m sure is very possible to find all over, complex organizms possible if there are single celled ones. But not humanoids living on our same gas compounds. That would have to be from earth only.

LOL... I never said anything about believing it or not  :laugh:

It just happened to be more interesting than the rest of the rubbish that was on at the time  :laugh:

Anyway, I mainly just use the TV as a sleep aid or to drown out my obnoxious neighbors  :laugh:

Occasionally there actually is something either entertaining and/or interesting on, but most of the time it's just background noise  :laugh:

Quote from: Virginia Marie on March 27, 2011, 09:40:29 PM
LOL... I never said anything about believing it or not  :laugh:

It just happened to be more interesting than the rest of the rubbish that was on at the time  :laugh:

Anyway, I mainly just use the TV as a sleep aid or to drown out my obnoxious neighbors  :laugh:

Occasionally there actually is something either entertaining and/or interesting on, but most of the time it's just background noise  :laugh:

sorry ! I didnt think that , I just have a bad way of getting points across.lol I was talking to the general human race on that last post.
Aloha, love ya, ;)

 I would like to believe there is other life in the vast universe and there very well may be. Yes the government can and does hide things from us but truth is if so many UFO sightings are alien in nature I don't believe any government could cover up the facts or keep peoples mouths shut. Maybe there are a few exceptions such as the Roswell incident and other similar incidents that could be true and covered up. But I think many of the strange lights and UFO sightings are top secret military experimental aircraft. I mean look at the stealth bomber, the jets that not only fly but can hover. I am sure there is some type of experimental planes that can do both, look stranger and do more than the stealth, and not make one sound that could reveal it.
If it wasn't for the fact that I come from a planet in a galaxy far, far away I wouldn't even think it is slightly possible that there could be be life out there. But since I do I will tell you a saying we have on my home world of Transulcan. It goes like this....kaduier jrowiu kjnj49 ll#^&* nd? pdkg...translated that means, don't believe everything you see and hear...lol

It does pose some interesting thoughts. First would be define life. Is it not possible that rocks can be alive? Just that they do not have life as we define it? What if their vital process are so slow that we can not observe them? And what if their vital signs are so different that we can not recognize them?
Why is it that when we move around in the dark it seems like the objects somehow move on their own. HMMM kind of makes you wonder. Or of course it could also mean that i am just a klutz to begin with. (Which is more likely)

I do believe that life is possible outside of our planet. Is it life as we know it maybe but more likely it's not life as we know it.

As for the government being able to cover up something like this for 50 years or more. I don't think it stands a snowballs chance in Cuba. Cover ups can only work for a short period of time with a limited number of people in the know. Human nature being what it is IF there is proof, somewhere it would have come out by now. There are far to many people at this point that have claimed to have seen sightings but as of yet there is no definitive proof that what they are seeing is actually alien space craft.

Which does pose some other questions. If the government is trying to cover something up what could it be? More likely it would have to do with possible weapons systems as those do pose a security risk both to us and to other nations. (Much easier to cover that up)

If on the other hand if the sightings are actually alien spacecraft, Why have they not to this point have they not shown themselves in a more open way? They surely would have nothing to fear from us as they would be so............. much more advanced then us. Why would they even be interested in a planet on the edge of a galaxy light years away from their own home?

Quote from: transnikki on July 12, 2010, 09:07:19 AM
Once you break the Einstein barrier, interstellar travel is easy.  But actually yeah I do agree with you, personally I think there's a good chance our visitors are from the future.  Which only makes it worse actually, extraterrestrials could be understood to not care about our planet, but meddling with time is very very dangerous.

What is the Einstein Barrier?

UFO phenomena id different than extraterrestrial sentient species. There is a lost of evidence of UFO. The best documented and indisputable evidence that a extraterrestrial sentient specie has visited earth is the abduction of Barny and Betty Hill.

Kate

PS: Do not forget of Area 51, where we have alien spaceships 

Watching the way humans behave, it would be nice to think that there was intelligent life somewhere as there appears to be very little down here. >:-)

I'm very definitely undecided about the whole thing ::)

Quote from: kate durcal on March 28, 2011, 10:13:16 PM
UFO phenomena id different than extraterrestrial sentient species. There is a lost of evidence of UFO. The best documented and indisputable evidence that a extraterrestrial sentient specie has visited earth is the abduction of Barny and Betty Hill.

Kate

PS: Do not forget of Area 51, where we have alien spaceships

My alien overlords have instructed me to say that there are no alien spaceships at Area 51, and there never have been.  It was a weather balloon reflecting the swamp gas off of Mercury.

And Betty and Barney were really poor party guests.  They spilled their drinks, put cigarette burns on the carpets, insulted the Qxonian (a really difficult thing to do given its religion) and all in all made a general nuisance of themselves until one of the crew splorked them with it's side arm (no the other arm!)  We put them back in their car while they were still frozen but conscious and told them that if they ever breathed a word of what really happened we'd plaster the pictures we had taken of them trying to talk to the houseplant thinking it was an intelligent being, all over the front page of the Chronicle.

It worked.

-Sandy(my real name is unpronounceable.)



cnat spel

Quote from: kate durcal on March 28, 2011, 10:03:31 PM
What is the Einstein Barrier?

That is generally referred to as the theory of special relativity which says that as you accelerate, your mass increases, such that as you approach the speed of light, your mass approaches infinity, making further acceleration impossible.

There is also the matter of violation of causality as you change frames of reference and time dilation.

But that only applies to mass, not space.  The Alcubierre warp drive proposal expands space in front of the ship using a white hole and compresses space in the back using a black hole, encasing the ship in a normal spacetime bubble.  Conceivably you could cross the galaxy at any arbitrary speed.

-Sandy

Wow Sandy! you go girl!

I taken your are a physicists.

Quote from: kate durcal on March 29, 2011, 07:25:59 PM
Wow Sandy! you go girl!

I taken your are a physicists.

Thank you for the fine compliment, but, no, I just am well read.

-Sandy

Quote from: transnikki on July 12, 2010, 06:51:49 AM
When do you think the US government will come clean about the UFOs?  Or are they themselves in the grips of a shadowy world government that knows no laws?  I'm tired of hearing the lame cover stories and the terrorizing of American citizens into silence.  Transpeople would be better off if everyone was worried about the ongoing alien colonization efforts instead.  We can't let these black helicopters & MIB folks tell us what we should think, control us with their billions of dollars of mind-control research.  Anyone with half a brain knows why we haven't sent astronauts back to the moon, and why we don't want anyone on Mars.

I for one welcome our Alien Overlords.

I'm sure they have much better advanced medical technology than we do. How very convenient.
When they arrive, I'll be the first to stand in the queue, especially with the conspiracy theories about how brilliant they are at genetic engineering. Oh yes.
Come to Xirafel. I don't mind if you're greys or reptilians, just do me a little favour with your infinitely advanced technology.

Back to reality, it's unfortunate, but the so called UFOs are more likely to be top secret aircraft which the government's come up with. They probably deliberately threw the theory of aliens around to cover their tracks by making the whole thing sound more ridiculous.

Edit:
Also, if aliens do exist, I highly doubt they would come here. It reminds me of an old joke, "There's no intelligent life on this planet."
If I was an alien, I wouldn't want anything to do with a race which constantly wars with itself.

Quote from: Xirafel on August 26, 2016, 05:50:07 PM
I for one welcome our Alien Overlords.

I'm sure they have much better advanced medical technology than we do. How very convenient.
When they arrive, I'll be the first to stand in the queue, especially with the conspiracy theories about how brilliant they are at genetic engineering. Oh yes.
Come to Xirafel. I don't mind if you're greys or reptilians, just do me a little favour with your infinitely advanced technology.

Back to reality, it's unfortunate, but the so called UFOs are more likely to be top secret aircraft which the government's come up with. They probably deliberately threw the theory of aliens around to cover their tracks by making the whole thing sound more ridiculous.

Edit:
Also, if aliens do exist, I highly doubt they would come here. It reminds me of an old joke, "There's no intelligent life on this planet."
If I was an alien, I wouldn't want anything to do with a race which constantly wars with itself.

Oh my God, yes!!! I can't even count how many times I dreamt about being abducted by some aliens who would then decide to change my gender. How convenient. But sadly, it never happened. Aliens, if you read this, please do me a favour and hurry up!

Quote from: transnikki on July 12, 2010, 08:19:19 AM
whoah, whoah, whoah, last time I checked there is tons and tons of evidence of visitation, it's almost always covered up though :-(  the US government is by far the worst, France & Belgium are surprisingly liberal though, France released all it's UFO records a few years ago I think, you simply cannot deny thousands upon thousands of reports from people all over the world and throughout time, that's how they want you to think

The people who have seen UFO's, Sasquatch, Loch Ness, etc, etc. Will be voting for Trump. If they can do that. Do you believe them?

My wife made an interesting point.    The reason we haven't seen any aliens, is that we're first.    While the universe SEEMS old to us; for its lifespan, its still very new; we can still observe galaxies in other local clusters; we easily see galaxies within our own and can resolve them in great detail.    Many billions of years from now, one local cluster will not be able to observe the others, and then many more billions of years, the same will be true for galaxies within each local cluster.     Our universe is still an infant.

Remember "Contact"?

We're the guys that built the space transport "tubes".   And then disappeared.   A billion years from now a few dozen civilizations will pop up, find our tubes, and wonder, who were these crazy folks that built this thing!

Quote from: DawnOday on September 12, 2016, 08:19:56 PM
The people who have seen UFO's, Sasquatch, Loch Ness, etc, etc. Will be voting for Trump. If they can do that. Do you believe them?

Years ago I saw a UFO. I was on a boy scout camping trip and we went to bed under the stars. Another kid pointed out a star like dot that was moving across the sky but it was moving in a square wave pattern making 90 degree changes in direction instead of traveling in a straight line. Several of us saw it and to this day, I don't have a clue what it was. Nothing known to man could make turns like that and it was suggested that it was a deflated Echo 1 but the pattern was far to large for that. As for who I want to vote for, None of the above. Can we have a redo?