Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Well I finally have jumped through all the needed hoops to start HRT and should get on that train the 27 September.  Time to refocus on FFS.  I am still part-time and have given myself Jan 1, 2011 to go full-time (although I have been thinking about moving that date up).  Maybe this isn't even possible, but I was wondering what the possibilities of doing FFS at the beginning of October.  And if anybody can convince me that this is a really bad idea.

By FFS I was thinking just rhinoplasty, forehead reconstruction and scalp advance.  These seem like no brainers regardless of what effects HRT has on my face. 

Here are a couple of ugly pictures of what I look like now...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froofchop.com%2FFront-PreHRT_tn.jpg&hash=5cf212ea15749b4bdac45cc6833b646d449650a4) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froofchop.com%2FLeft-PreHRT_tn.jpg&hash=da74c356e105ec96a2a7054b86641ecf251d89df) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Froofchop.com%2FObliqueLeft-PreHRT_tn.jpg&hash=7134105f3b3df9ed27b0961d29abe61dc3fba4ef)

Here is the short list of surgeons I am considering/contacting...
Dr. Bensimon (Montreal)
Dr. Speigel (Boston)
Dr. Zulkowski (Chicago)
Dr. Leis (Philadelphia)

Comments, questions, input are all appreciated. 
Peace....Jenna

Well, wouldn't it be better for your surgeon to work with the end result? I mean your face will soften up a lot more with HRT. What if it changed it alot?

Yes, don't be in a hurry, hormones will work slowly on your facial features first. Don't forget that part of the procedure is also reduction of the masseter muscle, which will also be reduced, like all other muscles in your body, by HRT.

I would suggest to wait maybe 1 1/2 to 2 years before going to FFS, so that hormones effects can be reasonably visible first. The key is, hormones are not a drug, but a signal to your body to rebuild itself with the "female" construction plan, and your body does not regenerate itself fast.

Also, May I suggest that you consult with Dr Ousterhout as well, he's the most experienced surgeon and he literally wrote the book on the subject.  :)

hello, you have very masculine features, your facial bones are very prominenetes, the brow bone you have to reconstruct, your nose is too big and the men also have to operate, your chin and jaw are also very male hormones usually does not lessen the bones only to issuing body fat but the bones do not change, in my honest opinion you have an urgent realizarte facial feminization surgery that you need it.
by surgeons who name I would choose to DR:. Zulkowski, but the stupidity do not make your operation with Dr. Speigel this dr. operates very bad and fatal results leave nothing horrible ugly women have no idea FFS

kisses

LAURA

If you could afford it, maybe you could consider jaw and chin too. Brow bossing its a must seriously. And well Full FFS seems a good idea in your case.

Your bone structure is within the realm of normal human female variation. If it makes you feel better, go look at the FTM pics, specifically me and elvistears, who have about as much brow bossing as you do (you can see the shadow of mine in my avatar) and neither of us has ever taken T. HRT will help. That being said, if you're also tall and broad-shouldered the cumulative effect could be problematic.

Having seen the before-and-after pics of the ladies here I really have to say that you should wait and see what you need before you do it.

Thanks for the replies and input.  I know that HRT will help to soften features and I am hoping it will help in the overall appearance.  I feel that having some bone work done will help things along and there are some advantages of doing this before going FT.  I am going to wait for any kind of jaw work, I feel FFS would be easier in 2 stages.  I have met a few girls that have done FFS before going FT and Andrea James did her first FFS surgery 5 months after starting HRT (tsroadmap.com).  I am hoping to move through the physical transition phase as quickly as possible and get on with life.  So far the transition is going really well, I am out to everybody including family and friends, and don't know how much longer I want to continue to present as male.....Jenna!

Hormones don't change bone structure. This is a no-brainer. Full face with your bangs, you have the potential not only to "pass"but be pretty. But you have extreme brow bossing.

I was fortunate to have been able to afford Doug Ousterhout and my life as a woman (three years post-op) has been nothing short of a miracle.

I can't resommend any of the surgeons you mentioned except to say I would avoid Dr Z. The problem is that everyone who thinks they had a good result is going to sing the praise of their Miracle Man while those who don't gget a good result might be in denial. Transwomen online (like  everyone) embellish alot.

You could probably get away withoout doing the jaw and "pass"most anywhere except Thailland and San Francisco.

Hello,

I've begun researching FFS recently as well. I don't know enough yet to recommend any doctors, but I have read that HRT can change the appearance of your face somewhat with the redistribution of fat and 'softening' of the skin.

I did come across one interesting site that does 'Virtual FFS', so you can get an idea of what you might look like with certain procedures. The site also had one of the more informative FAQ's on FFS. Has anyone used it before getting FFS?

http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/index.html (http://www.virtualffs.co.uk/index.html)

I'm curious, but I'd rather not waste my time on a fantasy if people have had unrealistic experiences with it.

-Gwen

I'm very strongly of the opinion that before any work is done you need to get your head sorted by a good shrink who knows what a TS is and then get on estrogen and spiro or whatever regime you fancy and give it a few months to start working to see if in fcat you like what hormones do to your mind, yoru sex drive and your body.

of the surgeries you mention I think a scalp advancement with transplants will not be wasted regardless of where you are this time next year.

Also today I have been and signed for my jaw reduction surgery...surgeon may do a full face slimming job once he gets my face cut open and can see where the important nerves run.

Quote from: lilacwoman on July 30, 2010, 12:37:54 PM
I'm very strongly of the opinion that before any work is done you need to get your head sorted by a good shrink who knows what a TS is [...]

Personally, I don't think psychiatrist should have any role in our case. But that's an entirely different discussion...

Quote from: aurora17 on July 30, 2010, 03:38:37 PM
Personally, I don't think psychiatrist should have any role in our case. But that's an entirely different discussion...

I'm of two minds on this one...

I am confident in my decision to transition and I do not believe that I would not benefit from seeing a psychiatrist/psychologist in regards to that (although like most humans on this planet I have issues that may be helped with some counseling).

That being said, as much as I know that I am making the right decision for me, I have seen a couple of posts, on this site and others, of people that are genuinely confused about their sexuality. I'm not saying that a professional psychiatrist would be the best choice, but they obviously need to talk it out with someone...

-Gwen

Rhinoplsty, Brow burring, chin profile, cheek profile

NOTE TO OTHERS: Please do not msg me to do your virtual FFS for free...

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg442.imageshack.us%2Fimg442%2F5628%2Fffscomp.png&hash=5f2267babc2f434bb0e5af106d2b9665c707b41b)

nice artwork, but those sunken cheeks and male glare will have to go. estrogen may help the cheeks. learn to smile as that softens any face.

Quote from: lilacwoman on August 19, 2010, 02:38:47 AM
nice artwork, but those sunken cheeks and male glare will have to go. estrogen may help the cheeks. learn to smile as that softens any face.

Why are you saying that to that person.. when taking photos to determine ffs you need not to show facial expressions

Hiyah Jenna

Yep.... I can understand why we all seek comfort in tweaks....but patience is a virtue as they say...

HRT can defo help with your soft tissue changes but again... the results are slowly, slowly, gently does it.... i.e. 3 – 6 – 9 months in and ever onwards as such....with the profound changes coming 18-24 months or so later....

Though you have strong features...you're blessed with good symmetry, a full mouth great hair and no adam's apple....

BTW - noses are notoriously difficult to do!

So if you can grin and bear it....do wait till the HRT's really kicked in a min of 9 months or so... you might find the fat changes on yer face... and then some..... and you will gain more prominent cheek bones...for sure...

But the underlying bone structures will never really change dramatically, and if it did due to some underlying anomaly issue....this is an over year's process like 8yrs+ HRT...

I've never had FFS to date... but will opt for some this coming Xmas I hope....when I have my first and only facelift....which I was advised a decade or so ago by a medic mate to do come aged 50-55..... (I'm 52 now)

I would add to your list....Dr Marcello Di Maggio

http://t-change.com/en/facial-feminization.shtml (http://t-change.com/en/facial-feminization.shtml)

(As with all in some respects the younger you be the better for bone work)

And for me personally I'm very much leaning toward Dr. Michael J Yaremchuk

http://www.dryaremchuk.com/english/facelift-surgery.htm (http://www.dryaremchuk.com/english/facelift-surgery.htm)

As he has a very academic and well researched background including Johns Hopkins....he's really on the money too, when it comes to elderly women's faces...notoriously difficult to do well, eyebrows are my weakest area....and he's written a key article/procedure on this.....

http://www.dryaremchuk.com/english/facial-rejuvenation-surgery.htm (http://www.dryaremchuk.com/english/facial-rejuvenation-surgery.htm)

But with all work oft its a case of less = more....

Though I doubt he'll be lower budget scale...

I'm also having X-ray's plus face-to-face consult with Toby Meltzer when in Scottsdale during Sept...

So he's an option too...

I met with Dr Bart Van de Ven in London earlier this year, but he's had some bad feedback recently..... but he's in Belgium....so less enthusiastic about him currently....lol

However do join...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ffs-support (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ffs-support)

As they have an excellent database of before/afters from all the key medics in the field on a whole host of different age type peeps....who've been generous enough to share there results online...

But you have to be formally allowed to join.... for privacy reason...obviously!

Good luck


PS: And interesting artwork by rock-on SaraR....I've added a hair-line/forehead reduction if you're uber pickie....but the scarring can be a challenge with some girlies...it seems with healing time...

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.imageshack.us%2Fimg839%2F639%2Fjj1.jpg&hash=1e3029102b67deaec1fef865c43e156d14c69061)

I think the brow bones need reconstruction, maybe the nose made a bit smaller (not shorter, just less large), but the rest would work fine. Your face is slim, and your jaws are not prominent, which is good. My mom and I have a squarier jawline than you do.

I had the same hairline as you had even before I got off female hormones.

I would wait until on hrt for a year or so then go for it  let hrt work for a while and see when you are on your transistion please dont rush anything .    :-\

Thanks for all the replies, and thanks SaraR for the virtual FFS work.  I have done some of this myself and know it can take some time.  I am going to hold off on the FFS for a couple of more months but is still something I would like to get too soon, like before the end of the year.  I realize this seems fast for many, but I have heard many good stories from people who have done things this way.  So far I have replies from Dr. Z who wants to do everything (forehead contouring with scalp advance and browlift, nose, cheek implants, jaw and chin contouring) for 30k and Dr. Leis who wants to do a bit less (forehead brow lift with scalp advance and bony reduction, nose and chin augmentation) for 15k.  I am starting to think less might be better and it is really my nose and hairline I want to get done the most.  I have my reasons to get the FFS sooner than later and am still not convinced that there are many advantages to waiting.  I will look into some of the other surgeons mentioned in the thread, it seems like they all have the specialties....peace, jenna

jennajane congratulations, you make the right decision if you wait longer for ffs trauma to look in the mirror will be greater, I already told you I would personally recommend Dr. Zulkowski (Chicago) or Dr.
Di Maggio (Argentina) these two are the best in my opinion

luck in your jennajane ffs

kisses

why are u rushing? i think u should to HRT for a year before proceed FFS...

But i think its kinda good to have FFS before taking other pilss and hormons.

i hope someday that a technique in surgery that can make our face looks female 100% without need to relay on hormons for the rest of our life...........

for body we can use the crossdress stuff that nowadays really great, it can make not even our boobs bigger with span, but also our hips bigger...........and its doesnt have any health issuues of cos

I think you need to start HRT and see where your face goes, you won't believe how much HRT can help you change and feminize your face. It does take a while to see the results maybe 1+ year but it will make little subtle changes. I you have FFS now and HRT later the HRT may change the FFS in other directions and you may not get a desirable outcome but take it with a grain of salt it is only my opinion. I have been on HRT for 15+ years and done numerous small facial procedures the latest being brow shave and 2nd Rhinoplasty all at the same time 4 days ago actually. I am on day 4 recovering at home in Boston and I had the FFS procedure locally.
Since I have lots of times in my hands I downloaded the pics you posted and did a virtual FFS but I don't know how to attach them to this message so if you message me I will email them to you and tell you what I did and you can post them if you like.
Best of luck
XOXO
Adara

Just a little update for those who are following this post.  I have decided to put off FFS until December and I start HRT this week eeeeeeeee!   I am in the mind set that having some bony work done before or early on in HRT can only help and speed this transition process along.  I have been presenting female part-time (everywhere but school) for over a year now and will be taking the plunge to FT after Christmas.  I have my short list now down to DrZ and Dr Di Maggio, but I think Z is in the lead and we have been talking about dates in the beginning of December. 
Jenna

when I was shopping for a FFS surgeon I did consider Dr Maggio but I speak the language perfect as I was born in Argentina and lived there until the age of 16, anyhow Both Dimaggio and Dr Z seem like good choices my top 3 were those plus Dr Spiegel who I finally decided on.

bye

How did it go?  Did you get FFS 3 months after starting HRT and is everything ok?

Wow, it has been a while since I was here.  Susans place was a great aid to me during my transition.  Then I got through the hard part and went on with life.  I now have two kids (2 years and a newborn).  It is scary looking at those old pictures of me.  I can't believe this thread has been read more than 16 000 times. 

I think getting boney work done on my face early in transition was a good decision for me.  I started HRT early October 2010, the had my surgery end of November.  I did a brow reduction with hairline advance and brow lift.  Nose job, and a small lip lift.  The lip lift was just added for fun because it didn't add much to the price, I think it is super feminizing.  Sometimes I think Dr. Z does too much of a lift so I asked for a subtle lift.  I wish I did more.  I am now confident enough to go out without make-up on a regular basis.  With two small kids it is hard to find time. 

Look for me on Facebook if you want: facebook.com/jenna.jacobs1
Or see clips of me in the documentary I did on Transgender parenting: http://www.transgenderparentsdoc.com/

Good luck everyone,
Jenna

Thanks for the update! Glad things have gone well for you =) Speaking of lip lift, that's kinda how I'm treating it...as kinda extra. How bad was the swelling/recovery for that part of it, do you think?