Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Two sort of intersecting threads - potentially at least - provoke this question.

first, more and more lately it seems that the home situation won't be resolved without a separation. she says that if i move out i can forget any contact and she insists on no support or anything - just disappear. I've been arguing for a rational trial separation in order for her to see if she really can handle that (she is extremely dependent and "clingy" and i don't think she fully appreciates what me moving out will mean emotionally)

my instinct is that in short order she'll ask me back - and i can set the terms.

BUT

I might be wrong. Assuming she holds firm to the idea of a complete break, after I wait a couple of months to be sure, I'll be looking to relocate....


the second thread is this - I have an old friend I reconnected with on Facebook (the sister of my best friend in high school) who's offered to let me stay with her (once she gets in her new house)  in Orlando until I can establish a new life there. This seems to be the best and most obvious opportunity to deal with the difficult logistics of relocation I've seen.

Such a relocation wouldn't happen, if it does at all, before next spring most likely.

So, the purpose of this post is - anyone here know anything about how it is for a transwoman in Orlando or nearby? acceptance? employment? community? etc?

she says from her point of view that I won't have any problem there, including finding a job (I've no idea how the local economy is there) but i figure if any of my sisters has insight it will certainly help me to plan for if/as/when.

I've heard south FL is very transfriendly, especially in Miami and Key West, not sure about Orlando though.

The last I heard, unemployment in Central Florida was 11 per cent.

Orlando has predominately a service-based economy, and the pay isn't great for those jobs.

I can't say that it's particularly TS-friendly.  You'll find support groups and gay clubs, but otherwise you're just tossing the dice.  Pick your targets carefully.  I was accepted as a volunteer in a couple of arts organizations and never had a problem there.  People in those surroundings tend to be more open-minded, and that can sometimes lead to employment.  If you're 50 or older, I can give you the name of someone who will help you if you want to go that route.

Also, Orlando has a strong redneck element, which sometimes doesn't bode well for those who are different.

Florida is one of the most homophobic states in the nation. Sue, there is a gay scene in South Beach and Key West but that's about it.

I'm 46

As for the choose carefully thing - the catch 22 here is that this is where the offer is. the cost of relocating any place where I don't have someone like that is just prohibitive.

Thanks for the advice so far though.

Okay, I don't know the first thing about central Florida, but perhaps some reflections on what you said could help...

What you say about your wife is kind of troubling. If she's staying because she's "clingy," but she's not really happy, I can't imagine that will be good in the long run. And when you say that you'll be able to "set the terms," that also doesn't seem like the best idea somehow. Not that it's any of my business -- I just want to encourage you to do what's right for you, which very well might not be staying together, even if it's a possibility.

Can you stay where you are or at least in the area if you separate? She doesn't have any right to kick you out of the state; her wanting you to "disappear" doesn't mean you must or even ought to. If you split up, then where you live after that is your business. However, I don't know what she could do to make your life difficult for you. It's just something to consider.

On the plus side of relocating, many places are likely to be more trans-friendly, at least in the image they try to project. You would need to rebuild support from scratch; I don't know how you are about that kind of thing, but it would be hard for me, especially at difficult times (i.e., when I need it the most). But if you have a contact, that's definitely a place to start.

I suppose it depends on how much support you have where you are. Will you lose that if you separate -- do you think your friends will all "side with her"? You know that where you live is far from my idea of paradise, especially not for a trans woman, but if it's where you know, if it's your home, if you feel comfortable with the people who live there, if you just plain like it there, I'm not going to tell you to move.

Nevertheless, it might be a great opportunity to start over with a clean slate. If your friend thinks there won't be a problem, maybe that means she has good social group around her. That could really help.

Quote from: Alyssa M. on July 28, 2010, 11:12:58 PM
Okay, I don't know the first thing about central Florida, but perhaps some reflections on what you said could help...

What you say about your wife is kind of troubling. If she's staying because she's "clingy," but she's not really happy, I can't imagine that will be good in the long run. And when you say that you'll be able to "set the terms," that also doesn't seem like the best idea somehow. Not that it's any of my business -- I just want to encourage you to do what's right for you, which very well might not be staying together, even if it's a possibility.

Well, It's difficult for me to make people who don't know her understand - I think there's a real possibility of a breakdown if I just leave. I could have done so, and in most cases I would agree it's the right thing to do.

As it is, I've been trying to give her every opportunity to maybe grow into a realization that I can't simply just "stop this ->-bleeped-<-" and give some rational thought to what that implies for what's next. I'm just beginning to come to the conclusion that as  long as I'm here she's never going to accept that there's no way back to what i was.

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Can you stay where you are or at least in the area if you separate? She doesn't have any right to kick you out of the state;

Oh sure, absolutely. she's not trying to control how far away I go - she's just making threats that she won't accept any contact or support or anything from me. even towards the kids.

It would be easy enough to be relatively close and not move in any of the same circle where we'd have contact.

But as soon as finances permitted, I wouldn't stay - there is NOTHING which argues for staying here except the wife and kids, and the lack of money.

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her wanting you to "disappear" doesn't mean you must or even ought to. If you split up, then where you live after that is your business. However, I don't know what she could do to make your life difficult for you. It's just something to consider.

On the plus side of relocating, many places are likely to be more trans-friendly, at least in the image they try to project.

That plus no one there would know me as anyone other than Tammy - no one knows the "old me" anywhere else.

QuoteYou would need to rebuild support from scratch; I don't know how you are about that kind of thing, but it would be hard for me, especially at difficult times (i.e., when I need it the most). But if you have a contact, that's definitely a place to start.

A lot of my emotional support comes from people I interact with mostly online - that is to say it goes with me wherever I have access.

there's a handful of people here who are nice to me, and few who are outright mean - but i wouldn't say i have a real support structure - just a handful of folks who have an "atta girl" attitude.

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I suppose it depends on how much support you have where you are. Will you lose that if you separate -- do you think your friends will all "side with her"? You know that where you live is far from my idea of paradise, especially not for a trans woman, but if it's where you know, if it's your home, if you feel comfortable with the people who live there, if you just plain like it there, I'm not going to tell you to move.

none of that really applies. i've been here far too long as it is. it's always only been circumstances - mostly money - that kept me here.

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Nevertheless, it might be a great opportunity to start over with a clean slate. If your friend thinks there won't be a problem, maybe that means she has good social group around her. That could really help.

thanks for the thoughts.

Quote from: Kay Henderson on July 27, 2010, 03:05:31 PM
The last I heard, unemployment in Central Florida was 11 per cent.

Orlando has predominately a service-based economy, and the pay isn't great for those jobs.

I can't say that it's particularly TS-friendly.  You'll find support groups and gay clubs, but otherwise you're just tossing the dice.  Pick your targets carefully.  I was accepted as a volunteer in a couple of arts organizations and never had a problem there.  People in those surroundings tend to be more open-minded, and that can sometimes lead to employment.  If you're 50 or older, I can give you the name of someone who will help you if you want to go that route.

Also, Orlando has a strong redneck element, which sometimes doesn't bode well for those who are different.

Kay speaks much truth here.

Look, I lived in Florida for 30 years.  Only 2.97 months ago, I left there to come to the Pacific Northwest.  Would I go back?  Never.  Been there.  Done it.  Know it.  Take everything Kay said above and amplify it.  Orlando is the "hippist" place in Florida besides Miami.  You DON'T want to be in Miami unless you have lots of money and can avoid the everyday life of the everyday people.  Trust me on that.  That said, Orlando is NOT very hip. 

Just outside the biggest cities in Florida, it's The Old South.   

You can check Orlando out if you want to.  Try it for a while and see what you think.  You may want to stay.  Only YOU know for sure.  You may just like it.

I miss the hot weather and sunbathing ... but that's all I miss.

Just my opinion.  Let your heart guide you.  Best of luck!

:)   Lacey Lynne

I was in Orlando for a week a few years ago and found it very trans friendly.

Orlando is an interesting place.  But, as noted, it is in Florida, and the state government as a whole is not very trans friendly.  The 'hip' factor to a large degree centers on the rave culture and there is a lot of electroncia/techno music that is HQed there.  But, if the rave deal (dropping X and dancing all night) is not your thing, the hipness factor slides off fast.  The gay scene - as noted in South Beach and Key West - exists, thrives even, but those areas are very expensive.

The industry in Orlando is tourism, and to that degree there are two kinds of service jobs.  Ones with public contact where they seem to prefer bright, shinny, young 'Disney Youth' types, and hotel maids, cooks, janitorial,  dishwashers who are all pretty much speaking Spanish.  And the speaking Spanish deal goes for lots of the tourists too, as Orlando is the number one vacation destination for South America.  So if you speak fluent Spanish that would help.  And, as noted, those jobs do not pay a whole lot to begin with.

You can stay with someone else, but for how long?  A week, a month, a year?  At what point - if you don't have a job - does it get oppressive for her to have someone sitting around the house who is not contributing?  My guess is, not very long at all.

I'm also sure that the recent oil spill, as such things do, had a spillover effect on Orlando tourism, so that industry might not be hiring as much as it did a year ago, and it might take some time to rebound, as tourism on the whole, nationwide, is not doing as well as it did five to ten years ago.  And if they are stating that the unemployment rate is 11%, the real number is much, much higher, perhaps as much as double that owing to how such numbers are calculated.  And outside of tourism there is very little else, no heavy industry or manufacturing, no major higher educational facility, no large clerical based stuff like banking or insurance.

Hey!

Tekla, just above, has plainly spoken the God's-honest truth to you.  Completely correct.  In fact, there is much more, and it is rather negative.  That oil spill is a MAJOR issue.  Believe it.  My gender counselor is STILL there in Saint Petersburg and lives within seeing-distance of the gulf.  She's coming here (Pacific Northwest) to retire in May 2011.  For her sake, I can't wait until she gets the heck out of there.  I saw that spill from 34,000 feet in the air on 1 May 2010.  You don't want to know ...!

Where we just moved from, eastern suburb of Tampa, was "Evangelical Looney Land."  There is a  southern baptist church on every corner.  The county jail rather near us (... there are more than one! ...) looks like a super-max prison.  Cops and military people are practically worhsipped there.  I've actually seen them treated like rock stars (especially the cops).  I kid you not.  My wife hated it even more than I did, and I detested it.  If The Lord, The Police and Corporate Profits "blow your dress up," then, yeah, you might love it.  Some people really do.

Of course, I'm strongly negatively biased, I admit that.  Remember, I lived in Florida for 30+ years.  When I arrived in June of 1979, it was unreal.  Ran into the Ku Klux Klan ... for real.  Billy Bob Bocephus Pardoo Bubba Pardee was kind of like who everyone aspired to be back then.  Street signs were misspelled.  Literacy was generally spotty.  Predjudice and stupidity were pandemic.  That was rural Marion County (Ocala area) in 1979.  Another dimension.  Glad to be gone.

Again, that's just my opinion.  My wife and stepdaughter will rail against all of that given the chance.  Other people like it.  To each their own.  Live and let live.

Peace ...    ;)   ...   Lacey Lynne

Quote from: tekla on July 30, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
Orlando is an interesting place.  But, as noted, it is in Florida, and the state government as a whole is not very trans friendly.  The 'hip' factor to a large degree centers on the rave culture and there is a lot of electroncia/techno music that is HQed there.  But, if the rave deal (dropping X and dancing all night) is not your thing, the hipness factor slides off fast.  The gay scene - as noted in South Beach and Key West - exists, thrives even, but those areas are very expensive.

The industry in Orlando is tourism, and to that degree there are two kinds of service jobs.  Ones with public contact where they seem to prefer bright, shinny, young 'Disney Youth' types, and hotel maids, cooks, janitorial,  dishwashers who are all pretty much speaking Spanish.  And the speaking Spanish deal goes for lots of the tourists too, as Orlando is the number one vacation destination for South America.  So if you speak fluent Spanish that would help.  And, as noted, those jobs do not pay a whole lot to begin with.

You can stay with someone else, but for how long?  A week, a month, a year?  At what point - if you don't have a job - does it get oppressive for her to have someone sitting around the house who is not contributing?  My guess is, not very long at all.

I'm also sure that the recent oil spill, as such things do, had a spillover effect on Orlando tourism, so that industry might not be hiring as much as it did a year ago, and it might take some time to rebound, as tourism on the whole, nationwide, is not doing as well as it did five to ten years ago.  And if they are stating that the unemployment rate is 11%, the real number is much, much higher, perhaps as much as double that owing to how such numbers are calculated.  And outside of tourism there is very little else, no heavy industry or manufacturing, no major higher educational facility, no large clerical based stuff like banking or insurance.

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Central_Florida"

"www.ucf.edu"


FYI professor!


The University of Central Florida, commonly referred to as UCF, is a metropolitan public research university located in Orlando, Florida, United States. UCF is a member institution of the State University System of Florida, and is currently the largest university in the state, and the third-largest university in the United States by enrollment.[5][6]


UCF is a space-grant university and has made noted research contributions to optics, modeling and simulation, digital media, engineering and computer science, business administration, education, and hospitality management, and is considered to be the fifth-best up-and-coming national university by U.S. News and World Report.[8] UCF's official colors are black and gold and the academic logo is a Pegasus. The athletic teams, called the 'Knights' and represented by the mascot Knightro, are members of Conference USA.[9]


The University of Central Florida was founded in 1963 as Florida Technological University with the goal of providing highly-trained personnel to support the Kennedy Space Center, located only 35 miles (56 km) to the east. As the university's academic scope had expanded to encompass other disciplines, the school was renamed the University of Central Florida in 1978. Although initial enrollment was only 1,948 students, as of 2009, enrollment consists of a 53,644 member student body representing over 140 countries, all 50 states and the District of Columbia.[2] The majority of the student population is located on the university's 1,415-acre (573 ha) main campus approximately 13 miles (21 km) northeast of downtown Orlando and 55 miles (89 km) southwest of Daytona Beach.[2] The university offers over 225 separate degree options through twelve colleges and eleven satellite campuses throughout Florida.[7] Since its founding, UCF has awarded more than 200,000 degrees, including 35,000 graduate and professional degrees, to nearly 170,000 alumni worldwide.[2]



But other than this fact everything else Tekla stated is accurate, and right now unemployment is even higher in the surrounding counties. As soon as I am done with grad-school I am leaving.

Best not to come here unless you are attempting a graduate degree in Engineering!

Sorry, UCF is not a major university, its a commuter school, with limited degrees, and almost zero impact on the surrounding community.  It ain't UofM in relation to Ann Arbor, and does not have near the support staff that major universities have.  It's actually more of a HQ to satellite campuses, so the impact on Orlando is even less, as most of those students are not even in Orlando.

If you think a degree from there is equal to the U in Miami, or FSU, or UF, you're kidding yourself.

Quote from: tekla on July 30, 2010, 08:14:50 PM
Sorry, UCF is not a major university, its a commuter school, with limited degrees, and almost zero impact on the surrounding community.  It ain't UofM in relation to Ann Arbor, and does not have near the support staff that major universities have.  It's actually more of a HQ to satellite campuses, so the impact on Orlando is even less, as most of those students are not even in Orlando.

If you think a degree from there is equal to the U in Miami, or FSU, or UF, you're kidding yourself.

wow you know how utterly full of B.S that argument sounds. I would say 3rd largest enrollment in the nation qualifies as a major "Education Facility"!


Secondly UCF is ranked much higher inEngineering than FSU, matter of fact (and I know this from first hand experience) FSU Engineering partnered with FAMU and since then has had nothing but trouble unable to offer all necessary coursework and is constantly in fear of losing their ABET accreditation.


btw I live in Gainesville and attend UF, so your insult kinda backfired! Go-Gators :-)

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Just outside the biggest cities in Florida, it's The Old South. 

Well, to be fair - i live in Mississippi now - it's not like i'm going to get MORE 'old south'

That said, I'm not wildly fond of it.

I think, in terms of balancing all the considerations (including cost of living, trans friendliness, not being TOO big a city, so forth and so on) that I've probably heard more that i liked about Portland Oregon than any place that comes to mind.

But again, the reason I've been in this damned place so long is because of the logistics of moving to a place where I have NOTHING to start with because I've never been that far ahead financially.

I dunno. Probably a pipe dream to consider moving anyway, looks like I'll be broke the rest of my life...

Obviously from Australia I cannot comment on USA places etc. But on the relationship level, I presume you are married? or at least de facto. In which case how can one partner deny access to the children? Or indeed the entire relationship, house, money etc, no matter how moderate, would be split 50/50 in case of a divorce. Again I'm speaking from a long way away from the USA but I thought the divorce laws were similar.

Also sorry that this has happened. I know you have had a long struggle.

Cindy

Quote from: CindyJames on July 31, 2010, 03:11:38 AM
Obviously from Australia I cannot comment on USA places etc. But on the relationship level, I presume you are married? or at least de facto. In which case how can one partner deny access to the children? Or indeed the entire relationship, house, money etc, no matter how moderate, would be split 50/50 in case of a divorce. Again I'm speaking from a long way away from the USA but I thought the divorce laws were similar.

Also sorry that this has happened. I know you have had a long struggle.

Cindy

I'm not speaking of legally - just practically.

It IS true that courts can and do deny access to trans parents, but the only divorce we could afford - and really not even that - would be the no-fault route were all terms are agreed to ahead of time.

In practical reality, if she exerted every effort to deny me access and i exerted every effort to have access, it woule be a war with too much collateral damage.

I'm sure some would judge me harshly for this but if she said "go and don't come back" - I would simply go and be done with it until they were grown.


I'm certain though, that if she is stubborn enough to refuse financial support she will put herself in a very dire spot.

Portland is nice, well parts of it, a huge section of the city is an area called 'felony flats' and it does have a huge (even for the West Coast) drug problem with meth and heroin.  It is cold and wet.  But for the people not tweeking it's a very outdoors kind of place, and the surrounding areas have spectacular places to camp, hike, bike, ski, kayak, and all that outdoorsy stuff.  It's close to the Coast, and sits in the shadow of Mount Hood and on clear days you can see Mount St. Helens pretty well, if active volcanoes are you're deal. But the international import/export business that Portland once had has been very much diminished of late, and they have a relativity high unemployment rate, even for the West Coast.  Though they do have a lot of computer stuff, some major manufacturing (Nike, Gerber, Columbia Sportswear, Leatherman) and industrial concerns.  And you will need that Columbia Bugaboo coat with the fleece lining because, like I said, it's cold and wet.

It does have pretty good public transportation, it's pretty bike friendly and people walk a lot, so you don't have to have a car to survive like you would in LA.  And to me its always a bonus to not have to incur that level of expense and constant upkeep.

It's also, even for the West Coast, very, very liberal - I've heard it referred to as Moscow on the Willamette more than once.  Gay mayors (until he was caught with an underage boy), medical marijuana, lots of hippies, skatepunks,  and freaks, some funky shabby-chic, boho areas, and the worlds largest naked bike ride where a thousand or so people ride naked through the city, make Portland very different from the rest of Oregon (except Eugene) which is as backwoods/redneck/conservative as you can get.

I have always felt that the less you have, the easier it is to move.  It's the full households that require a truck or two that create big problems when moving.

:(

not real big on "cold and wet" (although that didn't really surprise me)

thing is, the nicer a place is to live - the more it costs to live there.

My problem with the logistics of moving (assuming Im going alone for the sake ofthe discussion) is the cost of setting up housekeeping in the new location until (hopefully) you establish income.

Truth be told, I'd probably be reduced to looking for some sort of Hostel or community center or "Y" or some such if I was seriously going to, as the old folks say, "just up and go"

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Post Merge: August 01, 2010, 02:40:12 AM

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Speaking of "leftish" cities which I presume would be more trans-friendly than most (without getting into expensive California or "cold and wet" places

I've heard good things about Ashville N.C. and Autin TX.

also, for no reason having anything to do with being Trans-friendly, just in terms of weather and environment and to some extent cost of living, I've always thought Northern KY and Northern VA were appealing.

I bet Northern Virgina - being largely suburban DC is very, very expensive - because if you have to have government access, you have to be there and only there.  Austin is fun, big college town and about the only thing in Texas that could be considered liberal.  I used to go down and work SXSW every spring back in the day (early 90s) and I always had a good time.

You will find that often 'expensive' places have a corresponding higher wage rate, minimum wage in SF is $9.79 currently, the real drag about such places is that because so many people want to live there, the competition for jobs is fierce.

A working, viable public transit system (like SF, Portland or Chicago) can free you from the need for a car, and cut a few thousand bucks a year off your budget.  (Not to mention, the larger the place, the harder it is to even park the things.)

The Twin Cities are pretty good for trans persons, as would be Ann Arbor or Madison, Wisconsin but they aren't just cold, they are freaking freezing.  Though the Twin Cities, at least downtown Minneapolis has a habitrail (skywalks interconnecting buildings) for people so you can get around most of downtown without going outside.

And, when you get down to it, its amazing how little you really need.  Cooking for one does not require much at all.

I live in Tampa.  Look, central Florida (CF) isn't the most liberal place. Like most areas there are good places and places to stay away from.  The CF GLBT newspaper is called "watermark".  Look for the online edition you may get a good feel from it.  There is a large "out and proud" population.  Unemployment here is horrendous- one of the biggest industries was home building- not so good now.  Disney, and the other large employers in Orlando are mostly gay friendly-have partner benefits etc but they tend to have dress codes,for everyone.  Many of them have large creative departments that tend to draw GLBT types.  Lots of restaurants, tourist type stuff and many of those mom and pop places are run by gays.  There is enough so that you can find what you want.  I spend little time there.  I have met several people who moved here from Orlando and they seem to think that support was better there.  Certainly there are enormous Gay/trans entertainment complexes there, "Parliament House".  It was pretty outrageous the couple of times I went.  A section of Tampa is called YBOR city which is a very historic Spanish area where they made cigars.  The old brick buildings have been turned into various artist lofts, restaurants, bars and nightclubs.  It has become very gay.  Do a search on "gabor".  Did I mention that the Tampa Police Chief is a very open Lesbian with a committed partner? We also have a gay city commissioner.  Also the largest Gay Pride march in the southeast is held in St.Pete, a city listed in the gay atlas as one of the ten best gay places to live.  The mayor of St.Pete has been little hesitant to attend but the new mayor this year actually did go to several not so public events.  For a whack-a-doodle, born again, type to show up, even surreptitiously, shows the political strength of the gay community.   
     CF isn't near so neanderthal as some posters have made out.  I have to believe that it is better than Mississippi. Please check out the two items on line that I mentioned before committing. 

Thanks for the Watermark suggestion...will take some time to digest but looks like a lot of info.