Susan's Place Transgender Resources

How many others have had certain things about their prior male lives that conflicted too badly with transitioning to continue doing? For me it was martial arts. I miss it a lot but my sifu was an 80-some year old man who was raised in a temple in southern China and hardly understood any English. He was very old school and, needless to say, there is no way he would have understood my transition. Also, the general testosterone filled environment of the kwoon made it very much a 'boy's club' so everyone would likely have been hesitant to work with me if they found out I was trans. It breaks my heart because I was one of my sifu's favorite students. He used to always call me his son, which is something I'd never heard him say to anyone else. He also used to always refer to me as 'pretty' even though I was always in my male persona at classes:3
For a while after I stopped going to class because my transition was starting to become noticeable he would call me a lot to ask where I was and why I was never around anymore. It always crushed me to hear how badly he missed having me as a student. He hasn't called in quite a while now but it still makes me sad whenever I think about it.  :'(

I used to do martial arts. But aside from that, I suppose I didn't give up anything that I liked to be honest. I did lose a job over GD.

Simply, everything. Home, family, friends, home town, everything I had ever known and every cent I had. That's the way things were 37 years ago.

Everything started afresh and rebuilt.

Quote from: Ayaname on September 11, 2010, 04:03:41 PM
How many others have had certain things about their prior male lives that conflicted too badly with transitioning to continue doing? For me it was martial arts. I miss it a lot but my sifu was an 80-some year old man who was raised in a temple in southern China and hardly understood any English. He was very old school and, needless to say, there is no way he would have understood my transition. Also, the general testosterone filled environment of the kwoon made it very much a 'boy's club' so everyone would likely have been hesitant to work with me if they found out I was trans. It breaks my heart because I was one of my sifu's favorite students. He used to always call me his son, which is something I'd never heard him say to anyone else. He also used to always refer to me as 'pretty' even though I was always in my male persona at classes:3
For a while after I stopped going to class because my transition was starting to become noticeable he would call me a lot to ask where I was and why I was never around anymore. It always crushed me to hear how badly he missed having me as a student. He hasn't called in quite a while now but it still makes me sad whenever I think about it.  :'(

I think that you had a very good relationship with your sifu.   While you may not think he'd understand, if you spoke with him and explained to him I bet he would have found a way to understand.     It SOUNDS like he was very fond of you as a person.  I'm sorry you felt the need to remove yourself from that.

I've lost some things that I used to greatly enjoy as well, but for the most part, these days I'm finding that I'm doing things that I've never had the courage to do.   My latest fix is Yoga.   I'm fat and ugly compared to the other folks in my class, but I feel that I'm starting to care about the health of my body now that I'm moving forward in my transition.  I've spent the last 15 years abusing and ignoring my health and now that seems to be changing a bit.

Quote from: Epigania on September 11, 2010, 06:13:01 PM
I think that you had a very good relationship with your sifu.   While you may not think he'd understand, if you spoke with him and explained to him I bet he would have found a way to understand.

My sifu may like me, but he also has no qualms about making fun of anyone that he doesn't understand. He doesn't even spare racial stereotypes while minorities are in the room. I really wish his liking me meant that he'd accept me as a female but I know him well enough to know it'd never happen. He would never let me live it down and would undoubtedly out me to every new student. I suppose it's still just an issue of caring what other people think, but I think it would take an extremely confident person to withstand the abuse of sticking around after transitioning.

Ayaname, I would try telling your sifu about your need to be a woman.  What have you to lose?  You're already dropping out.

I was afraid to come out to a friend who is in his early 80s.  We always meet in a coffee shop and he is very hard of hearing.  I wasn't looking forward to the "I am transgendered" - "What?" - "I AM TRANSGENDERED!" conversation in a public place, but it all went well and he is one of my biggest supporters.

You never know how people will react until you try them. :)

- Kate

Hi Ayaname

Here is a thread where some of us discuss one or two things that we had to  Give Up (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,79669.0.html).  As Northern Jane basically said:

Quote from: Northern Jane on September 11, 2010, 06:10:19 PMSimply, everything. Home, family, friends, home town, everything I had ever known and every cent I had. That's the way things were 37 years ago.

Everything started afresh and rebuilt.

Except that I had money and it was only 22 years ago.  Yes I  currently swim competitively in Masters swimming (for adults).  So what you need to do as soon as you can is to get back into martial arts, if not with your sifu, then with someone else.  You will enjoy the love and the experience once again of the sport you love with a passion.

Kind regards
Sarah B

In some ways I was lucky (it's debatable). I had absolutely nothing to loose by transitioning. No jobs, careers, reputation, friends, family, I had virtually nothing that I had to risk loosing.

The down side being that I've never really ever had any of those things, so I don't truly know what it is to have them.

For me also - at least some aspects of martial arts. I have been doing some form of martial art since early adulthood. Most recently Aikido. Very touch and contact oriented - hard to hide breasts - pretty tough to explain. I have been changing slowly. But this is not some thing most others are tolerant of. So that has been cut out. Martial arts involving others - out - but many other martial art things to do solo. I always tried to view my interests in martial arts - as being on the path of enlightenment.

Quote from: Northern Jane on September 11, 2010, 06:10:19 PM
Simply, everything. Home, family, friends, home town, everything I had ever known and every cent I had. That's the way things were 37 years ago.

Everything started afresh and rebuilt.

I'm so sorry to hear that your transition was very hard on you. My family and friends are all very accepting and open to my transition. It feels wrong that I get it rather easy compared to how much so many of my trans brother and sisters have to suffer.

I don't think I really had to give up anything. I didn't take any martial arts, I wasn't into anything excessively manly. Anything I gave up, I don't really miss, so nothing really comes to mind.

Ayaname, you still can do martial arts, this time go to a different school but completely en femme.  There are a lot of schools that are female friendly...

That's such a sad story Ayaname :( I personally think you should tell him your story just feels unfinished even if he can't handle the knowledge or it's too hard for you to continue going not saying goodbye sounds so sad to both of you.  :'(

As for me Umm nothing like that... I swore to myself before hand I'd stop self harming for as long as I'm transitioning and taking HRT if I couldn't have that then the pain and sacrifice of transition isn't worth fighting for. (so far so good :) )
The other thing I've had to give up is putting off food shopping and favoring carrying huge amounts of grocery shopping home strapped to my back. It's just too heavy for me to carry all that home anymore :/

That's a tough one (for you) Ayaname..... your tutor probably got (felt) intuitively that you had a lot more depth perhaps than his average student.....? And martial arts (once we get past the duffying-up sense) are all about belief systems and mental control....

This is why I tend to take Vladimir Putin far more seriously as a world leader type, than say Blair, Clinton or even Obama'man.....because when you look into him (as a bloke) and see what he's achieved and done..... (the warrior king)... honed mental discipline is obviously key for him...

And he's for sure a long-term strategist, something I can relate too....lol

What did I loose, give up....?

For me it was racing special group motor cars that died for me with my male personae......(I used to follow F1, but really find it all cringingly boring now)...its so last century and an appalling waste of key oil assets....which is DUMB!

however my competitive spirit is still there...which I vent now in tennis and in the past dinghy sailing.... a sport now women in the UK do very well at..... for a wee while I coached kids in sailing a few years back and was amazed at my club how many girls were uber-keen.... and coming through...

Few boyz in fact...?

However a wish I've yet to fulfil is an off-grid, self- sustaing, self-powering own water supply home..... and a great extra on top would be attached stables to ride out on horseback into the twilight in....

(Horses a renewable transport system.....neat.....)

This is one passion I share with my sister and cousin, both equine girlie types and in my sis's case she owns currently three, and breads mules.... her Shire she uses to compete in Jousting...no less....

She's a long-term member of a mediaeval (living) troupe, which she does as a hobby, and tis  how she met her hubby, they rented a castle for their wedding, tres romantic....

Looks like my marriage, for starters.  Just had a very painful conversation with my wife, wherein she just had to let out all her sadness and frustration and pain.  I just sat there and let her unburden herself.  There wasn't anything else I could do.  I tried to say that I was still the same person, to which she said "No.  You're not.  I don't know anything about you anymore - I'm living with a stranger."  She considers this the death of all our hopes and dreams, and all her hopes for the future.  At one point she said "...and what about me?  I'll end up alone.  It seems like you don't even care about me anymore."

She has not seen me dressed, nor does she know my name.  She doesn't want to hear about it.  This conversation was brought about by me letting her know I'll be attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne starting in October.  To which she said "Oh.  It's about that."  I no longer have any illusions about whether we'll be able to stay married - I would basically have to choose between her or transition (being truly me).  Unfortunately, I know which I'll choose.  So... yeah.  Looks like I'll start by giving up my marriage of 31 years (so far).  She even said "31 years of marriage, and you're ready to throw it all away.  And if you think you'll be able to keep your job, and your career, you're dreaming."

Needless to say, I'm all torn up inside right now...

Quote from: michellecaro on September 21, 2010, 07:15:59 PM
Ayaname, you still can do martial arts, this time go to a different school but completely en femme.  There are a lot of schools that are female friendly...

The school I went to was really one of a kind though. I'd explain all of the reason why that is and why I'd never be satisfied anywhere else, but I'd be giving out enough information for anyone to be able to dig up my past if they really wanted to.  :embarrassed:

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 21, 2010, 08:37:12 PM
Looks like my marriage, for starters.  Just had a very painful conversation with my wife, wherein she just had to let out all her sadness and frustration and pain.  I just sat there and let her unburden herself.  There wasn't anything else I could do.  I tried to say that I was still the same person, to which she said "No.  You're not.  I don't know anything about you anymore - I'm living with a stranger."  She considers this the death of all our hopes and dreams, and all her hopes for the future.  At one point she said "...and what about me?  I'll end up alone.  It seems like you don't even care about me anymore."

She has not seen me dressed, nor does she know my name.  She doesn't want to hear about it.  This conversation was brought about by me letting her know I'll be attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne starting in October.  To which she said "Oh.  It's about that."  I no longer have any illusions about whether we'll be able to stay married - I would basically have to choose between her or transition (being truly me).  Unfortunately, I know which I'll choose.  So... yeah.  Looks like I'll start by giving up my marriage of 31 years (so far).  She even said "31 years of marriage, and you're ready to throw it all away.  And if you think you'll be able to keep your job, and your career, you're dreaming."

Needless to say, I'm all torn up inside right now...

That's really terrible. I had to part from a girlfriend when I transitioned and I've never stopped feeling guilty about it. I started dating her to begin with because I sort of felt like I owed it to her (long story). I was never really attracted to her yet I stayed with her for a good 5 years despite how much my trans issues made me feel disgusted by it. I finally had to call it quits when I went over a year without being able to bring myself to be intimate with her anymore. It just made me feel too ashamed and disgusted with myself because I wasn't at all interested in playing the male roll in any relationship. It killed me to hear her start screaming and crying uncontrollably when I finally told her that I wanted to go on hormones. I don't think I'll ever stop feeling guilty unless she finds someone she likes better. So far she's not found a single person she's wanted to date since then. It really seems hopeless for her and I can't help but feel responsible.

@ Colleen...

(Gulp)...

There's not really anything I feel I can say... to ease the burden....

But my partner and her family were horrified for sure....when I came out, so to speak, and nope would not go back in the box....

(And to suggest that you don't value all that you've ever made with yer wife – is just her anger and fear speaking)

You're in a really tough position.... ma dear. Devil you do, devil you don't...but trying to move back to a place of family equilibrium will be key...

My compromise was never to be 'female' in our shared home....

So I only became truly en femme, when I gave the house up when I left, and just took enough out to restart myself on my way....but the huge advantage one has of being young is there is less fear about the future as you 'believe' you've got bags of time...

Sadly fate and what's really is store for us doesn't always meet with our expected scripts...

However, your suggestion of a counsellor for you wife, (if you be in Northern Ireland you might get access to this free on the NHS, but with a wait...eek)...would be and excellent place for her to start...

I suspect this will be an issue she will not share with her g/f's.... so in many respects her avenue for release with this might be very limited... and her fear will be very real.

I do hope that somehow you as a family do find a way to resolve this....?

But pain free I doubt it will ever be...

And in my own case too, many days of tears of sorrow flowed followed my leaving my ex.... it took me several years in fact to fully grieve her out of my system... and for the first 18 months or so....my dreams were filled with for ever searching her out.....

(I loved her that much)

Nár lagaí Dia do lámh....

Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 21, 2010, 09:08:58 PM
@ Colleen...

(Gulp)...

I suspect this will be an issue she will not share with her g/f's.... so in many respects her avenue for release with this might be very limited... and her fear will be very real.

Nár lagaí Dia do lámh....

Cruella and Ayaname, thank you for your kind words.  And yes, as Cruella observes, this is not something she can or will share with anyone, and failing her finding a counselor, she feels compelled to keep everything inside, and so she worries about stress-induced illness...  Ah, god, I wish I could help her, but I cannot.  I can't even comfort her, because I am the source of her pain.  She said it would have been kinder if I would have just gone and had an affair.  Or just left her.  And no... I cannot put that genie back in the bottle, I can't un-open the door.  I have to know myself truly.  And everything I do only confirms it more.  This will definitely be the theme of my therapy session tomorrow.

Cruella, I'm not FROM Ireland, nor living there... Ireland is a last name I made up for myself online, and in the event that my family reject me and cause me to change my last name, I think that is the name I would go with.  I'm of Irish extraction, and I rather like the name.  I think there's a famous model with that last name - I could do worse.  Can you please translate that Gaelic phrase for me?

And yes, I know it's her anger and fear speaking, but I fear she will never accept me as Colleen, and I'll have no choice but to leave her.  She even talked about how our kids would no longer have a father, and how that would be for them, and how I'd lose my relationship with them.  Not sure if that would happen, kids can surprise you I'm told, but yes, that's a risk too.  And my siblings, and my parents.  But months ago, when I first came out to myself, I thought about all of that, and made the assumption in the beginning that I would walk this path utterly alone.  Imagine my surprise and delight to find that is not even remotely true.  For instance, my best friend, a gay man I've known for 36 years, is still right there beside me.

Anyway, there's no shortage of tears in this river....

This is about as exhaustive a list as I could come up with:

• Money;
• The ability to have children that share half of my chromosomes;
• One (1) good friend that I hadn't seen all that much lately anyway ... and I'm not convinced that's a completely hopeless case either;
• Certain aspects of male privilege (feeling safe walking alone at night; some physical strength; the extent to which people tend to automatically trust my judgment; etc.)

Yeah ... that's about it. I'm not saying it hasn't been hard. In fact, it still is. But I haven't lost much of anything in the long run.

@ Colleen....

The Gaelic translates to... May God not weaken your hand...or more power to you...

And hold onto this thought.....they might loose the façade of a father....

But they will never loose a loving parent....which is after all what counts most?

And would any well raised, centred child...who's become a productive teen or adult really wish a parent to live a falsehood and be inwardly crushed and miserable for evermore..

Or would that child only want the best outcome for a parent?

I'm sure there is way through this, only because so many have in fact walked this path before you my day...

And as always tomorrow is another opportunity and another day....

I didn't have to give up much to transition.  I'd already lost anything I had to lose due to not transitioning earlier.  (Meaning, I was so stressed out from repressing myself that I made bad decisions and ended up pretty screwed up for a while.  I'm still digging my way out.)

House, wife, job, a couple of friends.  Your basic run of the mill everything.

And a lot of the male privileges, but then I never really had many ( To my knowledge ).

So many sad stories and love lost. I am sorry for you to have to march through gates of hell to find your self at the end. Unfortunately it looks as though, for most this is the path to freedom. Loose most you had to stat anew, I suppose it is along the mystical prophecies of Rebirth. We must let the old and the lies die in order to let the truth live. 

I'm basically giving up my family. They might come back eventually but right now I only have one relative left that treats me as human...

I had to give up my father and a few other relatives.

Quote from: Cruelladeville on September 21, 2010, 11:22:19 PM
And hold onto this thought.....they might loose the façade of a father....

But they will never loose a loving parent....which is after all what counts most?

And would any well raised, centred child...who's become a productive teen or adult really wish a parent to live a falsehood and be inwardly crushed and miserable for evermore..

Or would that child only want the best outcome for a parent?

Thank you, Cruella - those are exactly the kind of thoughts that get me through the day.  My kids are 18, 24 and 27, and they are wonderful people.  I'm extremely proud of them.  The oldest two are out of school and in the workforce, the youngest is in second year university.  They're all still living at home.

I do hope you're right... but I know things will get a LOT messier before they get better.  And the hardest thing (on me) is that on the one hand, as I explore my self, I am coming into my own, and feeling happy, and proud, and wonderful, and then.... OTOH, there's this stuff.

Other than a name, that I had only used about half the time anyway, and a couple of ounces of unwanted flesh I really honestly can't think of anything I gave up. Possibly because I technically started when I was about four or five years old my transition was ultra gradual and despite the temporary hiccup in my late teens a really boring non event.

I gave up my family as well. Then later, when I tried to go back I realised I never had them in the first place.

I can't claim taht very much I've done is worth an example for others. But when family put conditions on their love they are not worth bothering about.

Family should be uncondtional. What I had was never family, just a bunch of people living dishonest lives who got angry when I tried to be honest.

Quote from: rejennyrated on September 22, 2010, 07:21:10 AM
and despite the temporary hiccup in my late teens a really boring non event.

Trust me Jenny, there's nothing boring about you.  :laugh:

This topic is so - on - for me right now.
I'm older now - been through a few marriages - many girlfriends. Have been this way - inside since childhood. Nothing changed it - being a girl inside. Experimented with HRT on and off several years. Part of the fear of going all the way - was and is - to loose people.
I have been with a female domestic partner for about 10 years - amazing. We don't have sex - but I feel very close to her. Experience has shown me - women can really take this thing hard. She lets me do all the typical female roles. She has so many good qualities. I don't want to do anything to hurt her.
But anyways - so I finally decided - forget about it - I'm not going to have a real relationship -  one that includes sex. And on HRT - that desire is about gone - and I don't really care.
I don't like men - sorry - just think they are mostly stupid.
Stupid is not a quality I want in another person.
So I finally decide I'm going all the way. Full blown HRT.
CONTINUED - bathroom break.

So for a year been on AA - then E - every thing is just great.
Then one day - I try on-line to search for an old girlfriend - a childhood sweetheart. She was the most special person in my life - ever. I have never felt the same for any one else. Before we split up as kids we talked about how we shall some how always be together. Finally after several years of searching - I'm about to give up. But this time I actually find her. She feels the same - I immediately go see her - A few thousand miles away. We just spent three weeks together. I adore every thing about her. She's rather larger than the skinny fifteen year old I remember. So every thing is great - except - my equipment barely works - I'm getting breasts. And she's a sexual dynamo - this is a big deal to her. OMG why didn't this happen just a year sooner. When boy things were working. I did tell her about doing AA - but presented it as a male health issue. I touched on I like dresses very much - I think she was getting the idea. One day she started crying and begged for me to not be a cross dresser. I tried my best to evade the issue - and in my mind thinking that being in the closet is not new - done it most of adult life - I guess I could die this way. So I promised her I would not.
But I don't think I can stop. This just feels so right. I don't want to be a boy. It wasn't my choice. EVER.
To be with her is like a dream come true. I love her so much - I always have and will. I'm so afraid to loose her - if I tell her the truth.

I lost a 32 year marriage.  It was a mutual deal. We were both realistic about it.  While I hadn't changed on the inside we were just conning ourselves that we could make it work so after many a tearful session at the kitchen table we agreed that we would divorce after my surgery and I had fully recovered and was back at work.  She stuck by me and supported me in every way until that time.  We're still friends and get together from time to time to have coffee and chat.

Steph

Quote from: becky007 on September 22, 2010, 11:17:46 AM
So for a year been on AA - then E - every thing is just great.
Then one day - I try on-line to search for an old girlfriend - a childhood sweetheart. She was the most special person in my life - ever. I have never felt the same for any one else. Before we split up as kids we talked about how we shall some how always be together. Finally after several years of searching - I'm about to give up. But this time I actually find her. She feels the same - I immediately go see her - A few thousand miles away. We just spent three weeks together. I adore every thing about her. She's rather larger than the skinny fifteen year old I remember. So every thing is great - except - my equipment barely works - I'm getting breasts. And she's a sexual dynamo - this is a big deal to her. OMG why didn't this happen just a year sooner. When boy things were working. I did tell her about doing AA - but presented it as a male health issue. I touched on I like dresses very much - I think she was getting the idea. One day she started crying and begged for me to not be a cross dresser. I tried my best to evade the issue - and in my mind thinking that being in the closet is not new - done it most of adult life - I guess I could die this way. So I promised her I would not.
But I don't think I can stop. This just feels so right. I don't want to be a boy. It wasn't my choice. EVER.
To be with her is like a dream come true. I love her so much - I always have and will. I'm so afraid to loose her - if I tell her the truth.

I think you should tell her immediately if you really care about her above all else. It's not going to get any easier on her to hear the truth as time passes and it also sounds like it's not going to get any easier to suppress who you are.  If you really think that you'll have no problem with it then there's not really an issue, but since that's obviously not the case I'm sure you know the risks involved. Only you're not just risking what you want, you're also bringing someone else into it. I know it seems difficult to decide between transitioning and this woman, but the fact that it's a difficult choice should tell you which one is right. I really don't mean to come off as offensive, but your not telling her before there was anything for her to lose while being fully aware of both your intentions in seeking her out and your desire to transition seems to show some selfish motives. You never gave her a conscious choice to be part of your personal problems. I think she deserves at least that.

Lost serious relationships with my 3brothers, they don't take my views serious like a lot of men, to them now Im just another woman.............

Quote from: Ayaname on September 22, 2010, 03:32:52 PM
I think you should tell her immediately if you really care about her above all else. It's not going to get any easier on her to hear the truth as time passes and it also sounds like it's not going to get any easier to suppress who you are.  If you really think that you'll have no problem with it then there's not really an issue, but since that's obviously not the case I'm sure you know the risks involved. Only you're not just risking what you want, you're also bringing someone else into it. I know it seems difficult to decide between transitioning and this woman, but the fact that it's a difficult choice should tell you which one is right. I really don't mean to come off as offensive, but your not telling her before there was anything for her to lose while being fully aware of both your intentions in seeking her out and your desire to transition seems to show some selfish motives. You never gave her a conscious choice to be part of your personal problems. I think she deserves at least that.

This is excellent advice.  Transitioning can be a very self-involved process - it almost has to be.  But those around us are involved, too, without benefit of doing something for themselves as we are.  (I'll be quiet now, since Ayaname expressed better than I.)

- Kate

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 21, 2010, 08:37:12 PM
Looks like my marriage, for starters.  Just had a very painful conversation with my wife, wherein she just had to let out all her sadness and frustration and pain... <snip>
Needless to say, I'm all torn up inside right now...

So I frequent an online forum focused on relationships, and I've been posting with these folks for years - we're like old friends, but there are some new members, too.  And today I posted there about my conversation, and about my therapy session.  I have a thread going there where I'm keeping them up to date on my journey, and yes, they know I'm trans.  Some of them have issues with that, but that's okay, I expect that.  Anyway, so I posted all that stuff - LONG post.  And one of our newest members, but someone who is quickly becoming my favorite, posted this:

QuoteThank you for the update. It is both sad and happy, beautiful and scary. I feel for you and for your family. I don't have any words of wisdom, just support.

That almost made me cry.  Of course, another person posted right after that I was killing my wife's husband, so I could hardly expect compassion from her...  ::) (and I posted back that if I were coming out gay instead, the net effect on my marriage would be very similar, but I bet nobody'd have a problem with it...)

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 23, 2010, 09:59:15 PM
...(and I posted back that if I were coming out gay instead, the net effect on my marriage would be very similar, but I bet nobody'd have a problem with it...)

That's a good point. By now pretty much everyone has accepted that being gay isn't anyone's fault. But you know us tanssexuals are just a bunch of crazy perverts.  ::)

That's actually not true in the UK anymore...

As I was legally able to change my birth-certificate a few years back...

It's now backed as a no-choice medical cond' as long as you meet the state criteria.....

And under magistrate court make/sign a statement that you'll never, ever switch back....

This then does alter official held records on you.....

Which for me has brought positive benefits....

Smoking aside, I don't really think that I've had to give up much to be honest, I ditched a lot of the overtly macho stuff years ago at the time of rehab because I knew then that it just wasn't me. I have found changing relationships difficult at times as I quite liked a lot of my guy friendships and although they are still good and a lot more honest, it does feel a little odd sometimes.

Ayaname, I did martial arts too when I was younger and know what you mean about it being a very macho environment, I couldn't even imagine going now, but at the time it was all about me trying to prove that I was all man (even though I knew that I wasn't). My sifu was called Trevor and was one of the nicest men that I have ever met, but I still couldn't imagine it.

I lost some close friends, which was hard. It also became quite clear that I'd lose my ability to continue making even a meager living in music, which I was/am not willing to give up. Music has been the one thing that has kept me sane all these years. Who knows, perhaps that might change someday.

Z

Quote from: Zythyra on September 24, 2010, 04:34:13 PMIt also became quite clear that I'd lose my ability to continue making even a meager living in music,

Why?  I'm a musician myself (amateur), but I have a hard time imagining how transition could affect the ability to make music?

I guess I just don't see it anymore in terms of "giving up" things. Of course things always change, and there have been plenty of changes. Yes, family and friends become collateral damage, but that in itself is not necessarily restricted to transitioning in any case. We can only walk one path at a time, and we have to choose which path it will be. I know anything that becoming myself forced me to give up never really belonged to who I am now in the first place.  There was nothing I had that was worth keeping along with the miserable person I would have had to remain in order to keep it. What I really had to give up was lying to myself and everyone else. I had to give up lifelong grief and sorrow for trying to be something I never was and never could be. I gave up a certain sad, short future for a life of inner peace and completeness in return.  All in all it wasn't a bad trade.

Hope not Zythyra. Music is one of the few human creations that have made life so much better.

One thing I will NOT have to give up, is my best friend.  He and I have been friends for 36 years... he was Best Man at my wedding.  Our families have eerie similarities, as do our life stories, but some important differences.  At any rate, suffice to say he knows me better than anyone else, and loves me unconditionally, and I him.  He was the first person I told about my gender issues.  And recently I sent him an email asking for us to get together at his place, and that I'd like to be there as Colleen, and for him to address me as Colleen.  Then I didn't hear from him for several days, so I sent him another email basically asking if I had thrown him for a loop or something.  This morning I got a very wonderful (actually 2) email from him letting me know that indeed he is with my on this journey, but that he is also mourning the passing of the "old me", even as he welcomes Colleen.  And the capper was his second email, where he said:

"I keep looking at the picture of you (that I sent him) ... I can feel your happiness and relaxation in the expression on your face ... I have taken/seen many pictures of you over the years - never have I gotten a feeling from them as I am getting when I see the smile on Colleen's face ....."

That was so wonderful to hear from him.  That has been the ONE big piece of the puzzle that for me, really solidifies my knowledge that I AM Colleen, not "that guy", never have been him, there has always only been Colleen, but it took me the better part of 5 decades to figure it out.  So that was my wonderful gift this morning, my best friend in the world will always be just that.  Someone pass me a tissue, please...

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 24, 2010, 04:43:45 PM
Why?  I'm a musician myself (amateur), but I have a hard time imagining how transition could affect the ability to make music?

It didn't at all hurt my ability to create or play music, however I was unable to get work as a musician once I transitioned.  :'( Perhaps if I'd been as famous as Wendy Carlos...

Quote from: spacial on September 24, 2010, 04:51:33 PM
Hope not Zythyra. Music is one of the few human creations that have made life so much better.

Indeed! And for the most part, when I'm involved in playing music, my gender doesn't matter.

Z

Quote from: Ayaname on September 11, 2010, 04:03:41 PM
How many others have had certain things about their prior male lives that conflicted too badly with transitioning to continue doing? For me it was martial arts. I miss it a lot but my sifu was an 80-some year old man who was raised in a temple in southern China and hardly understood any English. He was very old school and, needless to say, there is no way he would have understood my transition. Also, the general testosterone filled environment of the kwoon made it very much a 'boy's club' so everyone would likely have been hesitant to work with me if they found out I was trans. It breaks my heart because I was one of my sifu's favorite students. He used to always call me his son, which is something I'd never heard him say to anyone else. He also used to always refer to me as 'pretty' even though I was always in my male persona at classes:3
For a while after I stopped going to class because my transition was starting to become noticeable he would call me a lot to ask where I was and why I was never around anymore. It always crushed me to hear how badly he missed having me as a student. He hasn't called in quite a while now but it still makes me sad whenever I think about it.  :'(

what i had to give up:

For a time, lost my dad, but eventually even he came around.  He didnt like it but he accepts it, even he cannot deny I am this way for a reason, and not pretending.

Loser status



What I gained:

Xwife is now my friend
Career is taking off
Got a fiance
Doubled my friends and making friends is easier
People think i am more fun to be around
Self confidence
Self esteem
etc.. etc.. etc..

I totally went from loser to winner in life.  To think the only thing I did was stop acting like a guy...

Quote from: FairyGirl on September 24, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
I know anything that becoming myself forced me to give up never really belonged to who I am now in the first place.  There was nothing I had that was worth keeping along with the miserable person I would have had to remain in order to keep it. What I really had to give up was lying to myself and everyone else. I had to give up lifelong grief and sorrow for trying to be something I never was and never could be. I gave up a certain sad, short future for a life of inner peace and completeness in return.  All in all it wasn't a bad trade.

Excellent.  My feelings exactly.

The ease of getting a job.  I used to always be able to pull one out of my butt but since changing a little including the longer hair it has been rough.  Even when I do my best to clean up and look nice it still seems to strike against me.

The loss of my default strength just being of the gender.  I never worked out but I was one of those peeps that just had decent strength by default.  I used to be able to do small things like hold two fifty pound movie prints in each hand up and out like buckets being carried properly.  I can't do that anymore.

The confidence of nobody wishing to mess with me.  I had looks down that would scare a wild bull away and just the right air about me of being left alone.  Now more peeps challenge me and I just in general lack that same air.  I've even had nightmares about being weaker and not being able to defend myself in the way I used to.

Family above all.  Even if me and my mother had fights at least she wanted me around and seemed to care more.  Now I have been kicked the curb by alot of my family but my dad is okay with it though straight up.  At least that eh?  Brother refuses to talk to me as with most of my mothers side.  Sister, Aunt Lowayne, and my dad are it out of a huge family.

The few real life friends I've had.

Just all typical stuff really and I deal with it myself.  I have no other choice.

Inventory:

Wife: bitterly despises my transition, offers no hope at all of reconciliation (except for the fact that she is so dependent on me emotionally and otherwise that she might cave in after I leave. openly promises to give me hell as long as i'm here (then begs me not to go)

2 sons: older is definitely cool with it, younger tells me he is - wife claims he tells her differently but I don't trust her to not be using him against me. So far, relationships are fine.

Mom: supportive

Dad: opposed (but I didn't have a fantastic relationship there anyway and if he disowns me, no great loss)

Brother: haven't spoken to him in over two years (which dates back six months before I came out publicly) I don't KNOW that he is opposed, but i know he can't be unaware at this point and his kids avoid giving me his contact info (he's moved and my info is outdated)

Friends: several( but not all) folks I went to church with are on my wife's side and are "praying for God to convict  me" but I wouldn't have called most of them great friends. I can't think of anyone I was reasonably close to (a pretty small group) who's turned there back on me.

Job: I was unemployed (between census jobs) but when the second round of census work started they hired me as a female. That is, i assume, the exception - i expect it to be astoundingly difficult to be hired around here as a female, unless Toyota saves me.

Home: landlady doesn't approve but is one of the good christians who doesn't feel it's her place to judge. also, of course, if she evicts me she'd hurt my wife and kids which she wouldn't ever do.

"man stuff": other than watching ad blogging about baseball, I don't really do man stuff. Never have. not a hunter or a mechanic or a fisherman or a musician or a drinker or a smoker or an athlete. I considered giving up the blog back at the start of the year (because it's written under a male identity) but decided to give it one more year and, as it turns out, i've had the opportunity to pick up a few other gigs because of it and have made a couple hundred dollars through that and ads this summer so for now, I'll stick with it.


More on the marriage in a sec

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 21, 2010, 08:37:12 PM
Looks like my marriage, for starters.  Just had a very painful conversation with my wife, wherein she just had to let out all her sadness and frustration and pain.  I just sat there and let her unburden herself.  There wasn't anything else I could do.  I tried to say that I was still the same person, to which she said "No.  You're not.  I don't know anything about you anymore - I'm living with a stranger."  She considers this the death of all our hopes and dreams, and all her hopes for the future.  At one point she said "...and what about me?  I'll end up alone.  It seems like you don't even care about me anymore."

She has not seen me dressed, nor does she know my name.  She doesn't want to hear about it.  This conversation was brought about by me letting her know I'll be attending the Gender Journeys workshop at Sherbourne starting in October.  To which she said "Oh.  It's about that."  I no longer have any illusions about whether we'll be able to stay married - I would basically have to choose between her or transition (being truly me).  Unfortunately, I know which I'll choose.  So... yeah.  Looks like I'll start by giving up my marriage of 31 years (so far).  She even said "31 years of marriage, and you're ready to throw it all away.  And if you think you'll be able to keep your job, and your career, you're dreaming."

Needless to say, I'm all torn up inside right now...

You and i have amened each other before so it's redundant to say i relate to you but we definitely sing much the same song.

Mine tends to veer towards bursts of irrational anger - no tactic is too harsh to try to emotionally blackmail me into stopping...right up until the very edge of me leaving (I've actually had everything I was taking in the car a time or two) then she relents and tries to get me to stay (she knows what it would cost her for me to leave and to keep her vow that she "wants nothing from me" if i do)

i would just go ahead and go, but i fear for the kids if she actually does mentally breakdown as i fear she would.

In fact, on more than one occasion she has told me flat out that if i leave she'll kill herself AND the boys (they are too big for her to accomplish that without getting a gun or something) - that's the extreme she'll go to to try to force me to give this up.

you can imagine how difficult it is to be faced with that impossible choice.

Quote from: Tammy Hope on September 26, 2010, 01:17:00 AM
you can imagine how difficult it is to be faced with that impossible choice.

OMG, Tammy, that's horrible!  How old are your boys?  My kids are 27 (daughter), 24 (son) and 19 (son).  All still living at home. 

At this point, I have not yet definitively stated to my wife that I plan to transition, but she knows it's a possibility.  This past week I have turned a corner, and I now know that I must have that conversation with her, but it has to wait until after our Thanksgiving celebration (Oct 9-11), because otherwise she'll be under too much stress - my parents, her parents, her brother and his kids, all will descend on our house that weekend.  So I wait.  But your story fills me with dread...

Quote from: Mara on September 21, 2010, 11:23:36 PM
I didn't have to give up much to transition.  I'd already lost anything I had to lose due to not transitioning earlier.  (Meaning, I was so stressed out from repressing myself that I made bad decisions and ended up pretty screwed up for a while.  I'm still digging my way out.)

same here, Mara :)

Somehow I have a sense that, after thirty-something years, my life hasn't even started yet... And it's so sad to have so much behind my back which I mostly consider not even worth remembering. And I don't really know when will life actually start... possibly never... but have to try anyway, can't think of anything better to do :)

Ayaname, I don't know just how important martial arts can be for someone. I mean, I too have some hobbies, but wouldn't worry about losing either one of them. I mean, they don't necessarily carry my personality, they're just passing time. How about you? Was your soul really that much into it? What did it mean to you?

And to Coleen and Tammy, my heart goes out to you on this one... When I hear about cases like yours I feel I don't really have and never had any problems in life at all :) But seriously, if you all can come out of this relatively unharmed then it was a good job... but it must be tough.

g

Quote from: ggina on September 26, 2010, 08:51:47 AM
same here :)

Somehow I have a sense that, after thirty-something years, my life hasn't even started yet... And it's so sad to have so much behind my back which I mostly consider not even worth remembering. And I don't really know when will life actually start... possibly never... but have to try anyway, can't think of anything better to do :)

g

This is important I think, I'm not really losing some male life because I was never, ever able to quite make that work and it wasn't me so I've pretty much lumbered around begrudgingly from tragedy to tragedy and like ggina, I don't really feel as though life has started yet.

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on September 26, 2010, 07:28:56 AM
OMG, Tammy, that's horrible!  How old are your boys? 

17 and 13

the oldest is, for all intents, a full grown man physically...younger is just getting into puberty.

both have birthdays after the first of the year (January and February)

Besides a few unenlightened friends ............ I dunno, I'm still working on that . ellen

Quote from: MillieB on September 26, 2010, 09:00:00 AM
I don't really feel as though life has started yet.

hmm... wonder how many of the cis-people used to say that :) I mean, sure I feel the same way too but what if this is life? Nobody can really define it so it's hard to say if we're living it or not... Sorry I'm getting a bit philosophical :)

But for me, life is about falling in love. I've done so many things but this one has eluded me so far. Actually this is the very reason I started transitioning, because I'd found I was incapable to fall in love with anybody as a man. Not because my body didn't allow it but because I didn't love myself. And you have to love yourself to be able to love others.

So yes, Millie, there's not too much here to throw out :)

g