Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm looking down one of the many roads ahead and starting to ask some hard questions.  Please bear with me...

My position is that any religious faith you follow is your own way of paying due homage to the Almighty.  That is, you stay Baptist, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, etc because it works for you.  When your own beliefs reaches an irreconcilable clash with any formal religious system, somethng needs to change.

I am Roman Catholic and love the church.  However, being transgendered and Catholic may be the irreconcilable clash I mentioned above, especially with Pope Benedict.  Down the road, I may either have to change my own beliefs, or find another faith that is more closely aligned with my beliefs.

What faiths are at least transgender tolerant, if not transgender accepting? 

While I am a Christian and will remain so, I am sure that ther are non-Christian sisters and brothers who read these posts.  A posting of non-Christian faiths would be of community interest as a whole.

Peace,

Chaunte

Hello Chaunte,

It truly a shame when you find yourself in conflict with your religion, but not an insurmountable problem.  Let me say that I am not a religeous person, and I do not believe in a "God" however I do respect all who do and those who follow some form of religious belief.

I'm not sure if this church is in the US, but here in Canada, the most forward thinking, liberal minded, open faith is the United Church.  They have gay and lesbian ordained ministers, support same sex marriage, and I know that there are trans people who attend this church.

I'm not sure if this helps but it may be worth checking out.

Chat later,

Steph

http://www.dawnwright.com/gender/NACDLGM_paper.htm

Dawn Wright is someone who was able to reconcile both her religion (Catholic) and her gender conflict.

Jessica

Some basic Christian (maybe non denomination) churches. Bhudism, Hinduism, or Zen I havent heard many TGs talk about, though it would seem are more accepting. Humanism has a foundation based on the fundamental rights to pursue your self fulfillment (though isnt really a religion more of a way of living). Paganism/Wicca seems popular. I think non religious people live the life according to current Psychology methods and practice (in this sense Psychology becomes the basic rules and laws of living).

Found this listing of stuff for christian since you mention many http://dmoz.org/Society/Transgendered/Religion_and_Spirituality/Christianity/
and
https://www.susans.org/Spirituality/

Here is a break down of major religions according to one set of numbers
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html


Here is  a List of Religions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions_of_the_world

Hi there,

Have you ever heard of the MCC--Metropolitan Community Church ?  I've only visited once, but they are known informally as 'the gay church'.  All are welcome, but they especially minister to the GLBT community.  I'm sure if you do an online search, you might find one in your neighborhood. 

Also, there are certain key phrases that certain denominations use to make people aware of their open-ness towards homosexuals.  I'm sure this would also include transgendered people.  To give an example, Lutheran churches that proclaim themselves, "open and affirming" are this way.  Other church denominations have similar phrases...there might even be an affirming church in the RC faith. 

I'd check for you now, but I'm at work.  I'll try to find more info for you....

Good luck and remember that God loves and accepts you no matter what, so don't let anyone tell you differently ! 

Valerie Ann

The most accepting seem to be Paganism/Wicca and Buddhism.

Buddhists in particular are different than most because they don't have a tendency to preach.

Pagans seem to be more accepting because their religions are much more independent, and less prone to conformity.

Hinduism is a tg tolerant faith. they have a caste of transgendered women called the hijra. in their early teens they leave their families to join a hijra family. they are castrated, usually before the deformations caused by testosterone in the late teens and early twenties. they are considered blessed by a certain fertility goddess whose name eludes me at the moment.
they are believed to have the power to bless a person to a prosperous life or curse them with impotence. they give their blessings at weddings and the birth of children for which they are given compensation in the form of food, clothing and money. The families are headed up by a senior hijra who trains the newcomers in the arts of classical dance and teaches them the mantras believed to bestow their blessings/curses.

I myself am a Hindu but I worship the Lord Shiva and the mother goddess Kali. There is an aspect of Shiva that is depicted as half-male and half-female, having one breast and a penis.
Both Shiva and Kali are creators and at the same time destroyers. They create the universe and it's inhabitants, and when they are done they destroy all of creation so that they may create it anew.

After much soul-searching and experimentation I found Hinduism and it has made me feel at peace. Nothing they have created can be wrong as they created it that way. I am very happy with my choice to become Hindu.

Ones faith can be tolerant. It is religion which is intolerant. Even Hindus have commited evil against their fellow man in the name of their religion. Gahndi freed India from British rule through his faith and passive resistance, but it was in the name of religion that he was murdered.

One can find tolerance in any denomination. It takes people of faith to exhibit that tolerance. That faith must include a god/goddess/creator of love and compassion. I have studied many religions. I believe in none and all. It is the people of a church, synagogue, mosque, or shrine who must make the difference and show the love and compassion all religions profess to posses.

My god is a loving god who cares for us but will not inteferre in our affairs. Our successes and our failures must be ours and ours alone or we cannot grow. He has given us all special gifts and it is up to us to decide what they are and how to make use of them. He has given us some basic guidlines which amount to one wonderful basic rule.  Be good to each other.  :angel:

Cassie

Chaunte,

I am Roman Catholic, and have talked to my Priest in confession about being TS.  He just smiled and told me not to worry about it.  Then again I went through RCIA well after surgery, transition, etc.

If you embrace a new religion, wouldn't it be difficult to change your beliefs to match the religion?  It seems easier/more natural to find a religion that fits your beliefs, rather than seemingly the other way around...

Theresa

Here is some information I got earlier this year from the United Church of Christ.

United Church of Christ website:

http://www.ucc.org/index1.html

Or this link which will help you find a congregation in your area that has signed on to the "God Is Still Speaking" program.

http://www.stillspeaking.com/find/

I did talk to the minister at one of the churches near me and she was very welcoming, accepting and encouraging.  I haven't yet gotten the courage to attend, but maybe sometime soon.

Anne

Quote from: Theresa on September 06, 2005, 08:09:49 AM
Chaunte,

I am Roman Catholic, and have talked to my Priest in confession about being TS.  He just smiled and told me not to worry about it.  Then again I went through RCIA well after surgery, transition, etc.

If you embrace a new religion, wouldn't it be difficult to change your beliefs to match the religion?  It seems easier/more natural to find a religion that fits your beliefs, rather than seemingly the other way around...

Theresa

First, please forgive me for not replying to the strings that have been posted.  I deeply appreciate your thoughts and thank you for your invitations to your faiths of acceptance.

It's not that I find myself in conflict with my faith.  I think I should have said that I find myself in conflict with the hierarchy concerning my transgenderism.  My diocese is VERY conservative, as is this part of the state in which I live.  This cascades down to many of the parish priests. 

The one ray of hope I have is that, with the election of Pope Benedict, a number of the conservative priests hare taking a more liberal stand.  How long this will last is anyone's guess.

I would write more, but it's 11:30 PM and the alarm goes off at 4:30 AM.

Chaunte.

Hey there, Chaunte,

I did a quick search before work this morning.  Check out some of these links, there are some Catholic references in some of these.  While they don't necessarily specify 'transgendered', gay-friendly might be as close as you can get in your search.  Not sure what state you're in, so these are pretty broad....but maybe you can contact them and see what's close to your locale.  Good luck!  :) Valerie

www.spiritualfruits.com/churches.html   

http://www.rachelmiller.info/linksp1.htm

http://www.lathefamily.org/gayfamilies/dcd/GLBT_Family_Resources/Faith_and_Religion/

http://www.independentcatholics.org/ministries.html

Am Catholic myself - and am sort of wondering exactly what sin is being committed by being a cross dresser or transexual?
Haven't read latest on what Pope Benedict is up to - but I have heard that he does not want homosexuals in the priesthood - even thou problem is peadophiles & homosexuality of itself is not a sin

Rana,

I forget the exact passages in scripture (OT, I believe), but there are several where prophets have said that wearing the clothing of the opposite sex is a sin.  A friend of mine with whom I shared some of my infamous Halloween pictures with, gave me a looooong email where she copied text, chapter and verse.  (As a result, I did not come out to her.)

As I recall, the passages were very homophobic in temperment and wording.  (Yes, I know that homosexuality and transgenderism are completely different, but that was what i picked up on from the scripture passages.)

Pope Benedict is a Right-Wing Conservative.  He was running the Office for the Propagation of the Faith before he was elected pope.  (Remember the Inquisition?  Yup, same organization.)  In many ways, I think he and Rush Limbaugh have a lot in common - both are way over the top.  Both have a long string of phobias that include the LGBT community.

Regardless of what happens in Rome, you will find local parishes in the U.S. addressing the needs of the LGBT community.  These organizations may not be "officially recognized" by a parish, but that is to keep Rome at arms length.

Rana, the personal conclusion I came to is this.  We are all sons and daughters of the Almighty.  How can we not be loved by the Almighty if we are being who we were born to be?

Just my two cents.

Peace,

Chaunte

Right on Melissa.
The transsexual had no choice in being transsexual. He or she just is. I don't believe that God condemns anyone because of the way they were born, because He made each one of us to fulfill His purposes.

:)
Jillieann

Hi Chaunte,
I agree with your conclusion - is spot on. Hey may I quote from a poem I like very much that seems to me relevant :)

AND this I know: whether the one true light
Kindle to Love, or Wrath consume me quite,
One glimpse of It within th Tavern caught
Better than in the Temple lost out-right

As for what appears in the Old Testament, there are passages that govern the length of a mans beard I believe - it being a sin if its too short or somthing The New Testament is more important. I think Jesus said in reply to what is the most important commandment " You must love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your mind, and following from this you must love your neighbour as yourself.  On this hangs all the law and the prophets. (I know I am paraphrasing, but thats the meaning as far as I am aware) I cannot see anything intolerant or homophobic in this :)
As for Pope Benedict - I know he is conservative, but then again so am I, I am not really sure where he is going at this stage but I am prepared to trust him.  And yes I know that the Ministry for the Propogation of the Faith was the inquisition - but hey they stopped burning & torturing people about the same time the Protestants did and the Quakers in America (whoever it was that burnt those unfortunate women in Salem).  There were heaps of evil actions done (and still being done) in Gods name - I am sure that those people responsible would have a good explanation when they are called before God to explain themselves
I dont know about the relationship of US Parishes to Rome.  In Australia they accept Rome's authority.  In South America I have been told on good authourity Catholic Priests can marry - so I guess in practice the Catholic Church is not really a monolithic organisation
Regards
rana

QuoteQuakers in America (whoever it was that burnt those unfortunate women in Salem).

That would be the Puritans, not Quakers. Quakers don't believe in violence of any kind even for the punishment of crimes.

Cassie

hello!
  Melissa girl i must say i have enjoyed reading what your copyed from the TS site. When looking over the site i was unable to see what degrees or qualifications the author has on her understanding of scriptual works. If possible could you let me know? Thanks
From a caring brother: James

Hi, Ladies.  And you are Ladies all.  I have read with great interest a great many posts in many of the forums and am awe inspired by the Honesty, Sincerity and Wisdom presented here.  After reading all the posts in the Spirituality forum I am moved to break my silence and stick my two cents (sense?) worth into the arena. 

A little intro here.  First and foremost I am American Indian.  Lakota Sioux.  I do not say Native American because, technically, anyone born in the US is native to America.  I discovered my Indian roots quite by accident about 12 years ago and have decided to follow that Spiritual path and have felt better about life and myself every since.  I started discovering my TS self in Nov. 2000 when I got my first computer and all the worlds knowledge (so to speak) was to be found at my finger tips.  In that 6 years I have accomplished what many of our ilk still have as a major struggle; I have learned exactly who and what I am and I am totally comfortable with it.  Absolutely no amount of verbal slamming can hurt me because I know my truth.  I am a confirmed  DRT (dual role transgenderist) and proud of it.  I walk both sides of the line equally which gives me insights that many others can't even dream of.  I can be the Macho bully (my man) or I can be the teary eyed sympathizer (my woman).  My man's name is Gary Runningbear and my woman's name is Michelle Whitefeather.  We are different.  We are the same.  We always get along, no conflicts.

In the Indian community we are known as Winkte-pronounced WINK-tay.  Translates to Two Spirit Person.  Two Spirits living in the same body, figuratively speaking.  We are the brave and strong Warrior and the nurturing and loving caretaker of the home.  In the Indian society the Winktes are Honored and highly Respected people.  They are frequently sought out for their wisdom and advice and are held in high esteem.  So, you see, I have many reasons to feel good about who and what I am.

HOWEVER...

It seems that with all that I know and feel about myself, the dressing up part of Miss Chelle is still stuck in the closet!  I have been married to a most wonderful woman, White Fawn, for 34 years last Monday.  She has known about me almost since day one.  She is some what understanding of it but doesn't want to get too close to it.  She is so afraid that one day out of the blue I am going to want to have an operation and become a woman full time.  I keep telling her that there is no possible way but I don't think she buys it.  I am too comfortable in my current role to ever mess it up that way. 

I guess my main point is that (I feel) that we all need a strong solid belief in a Supreme Being, whether we call Him Great Spirit, God, Allah, Yahweh or any thing else, He is still the same Supreme Being.  We worship without being shackled by the tenets and dogma of any "organized" religion generated and perpetrated by man for his own gain.  We are solid in the knowledge that He loves equally as He created us equally and, of course, we are all perfect in His eyes.  We do not discriminate or point fingers because of differences in Spiritual beliefs, gender, color or anything else. 

At this point, to be fair, I have to acknowledge that there are faiths that believe that the Supreme One is female, or Goddess.  I am comfortable with that.  After all, God is both, God is neither (DRT?)  Gender is inconsequential in reference to God so use what feels right to you.   He/She won't mind at all!  Trust me on this.

I guess I've spouted off enough for now.  Hope someone finds this informative or at least interesting enough to laugh. LOL  As someone once said, "I'll be back"

Love to all,
     Miss Chelle

QuoteHi, Ladies.  And you are Ladies all.

Not quite all.

Dennis

OOOPS!  Sorry Dennis.  *egg on face*

QuoteI guess my main point is that (I feel) that we all need a strong solid belief in a Supreme Being, whether we call Him Great Spirit, God, Allah, Yahweh or any thing else, He is still the same Supreme Being.

I quoted the entire thing so it would be read in context, my question is to the portion in italics.  Why?

Can I still be a good person without that belief?
Can I still be me without that belief?
Can I be a complete person without that belief?

There are many religions that do not necessarily revolve around 'a supreme being'

To understand where you are coming from, why do you feel that 'we all' need to 'believe in a supreme being' ?

Quote from: Jessica on January 31, 2006, 01:08:19 PM
I quoted the entire thing so it would be read in context, my question is to the portion in italics.  Why?

Can I still be a good person without that belief?
Can I still be me without that belief?
Can I be a complete person without that belief?

There are many religions that do not necessarily revolve around 'a supreme being'

To understand where you are coming from, why do you feel that 'we all' need to 'believe in a supreme being' ?

Dear Jess, I will stick my nose in again for a change  :)  To the first 2 questions, a resounding 'YES !'

I am a Christian so I believe in a Supreme Being very heartily and try to live my life according His will.  However it has always been my opinion that God is present in all beings and in Creation itself. 

I also believe that God is the source of all Good--- When I see the good in people, I see God; I interpret the goodness in light of my faith. When I witness the beauty of another person, I believe I am seeing God within them.

It doesn't matter what they believe-- I have seen God in Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Native Americans, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, and even in people who believe in God but don't care to associate with Him. 

One day, years ago, I asked my friend and mentor, Barbara, 'why is my Hindu pen-pal >-bleeped-<al more Christian than some Christians that I know?'  And Barbara replied, 'Because he says "yes" to God.' 

The spark of the Divine is in each of us, so in my view, one need not believe in order to be good any more than a sunset needs to believe in order to inspire awe, or a flower needs to believe in order to produce brilliant color. 

You are good and beautiful, Jess, and can be you whether or not you believe in a Higher Power. 

Your final question, can you be a complete person without such a belief...that I am not quite sure how to answer. I think that can only be left up to your own subjective experience.  I know that before I recognized God in my life, I didn't notice anything missing, but once I was awakened to Him, there was no turning back. 

It's like that with many situations, however...it's hard to know that something is or might be missing until you've experienced it.  A child who has never tasted chocolate or seen the color yellow cannot reasonably recognize a void...once she sees yellow or tastes the candy, and determines whether or not she likes it, only then can she determine whether it is good and whether she can be complete without it. 

Plato's Allegory of the Cave is an interesting little piece you may want to read.... 

In peace,
Valerie

QuotePlato's Allegory of the Cave is an interesting little piece you may want to read.... 

You wouldn't be taking philosophy this semester by any chance now would you Valerie?  ;D

Cassie

Nopers, not this time, Cass  :D  Actually I took philosophy in '97 or '98 before I put school on hiatus to move to Florida. 

A little over a year ago for an English class I had to read the Allegory, and write a short paper on it. I was completely at a loss for what to write when the idea literally smacked me in the head in the early morning haze upon waking.

And so I compared the Allegory with my then-recent revelation that I need to divorce my husband.  I just found the paper again more recently, and I'm glad I kept it as it's one of those things that I am prone to reflect on many years from now and share with others who might be half-interested. 

Enough for now....    Will somebody get us back on topic please?   :)

XO,
Valerie

Jessica, I guess the only explaination I can give is that I personally believe that there is a Supreme Being that rules over all whether any one believes or not.  It is of the opinion of those much more learned than I that we as human beings are geneticly predisposed to seek out and worship a Supreme Being.  It's like our genes are preprogrammed to do so.  In my heart that just feels truthful and right so this is what I do.  It is also noted by the same learned ones that those who do believe tend to live longer and more healthful lives.  I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, just sharing an alternate viewpoint.  If I have upset anyone, I appologize.  No matter what your belief, I wish you all a long and healthful life.

Miss Chelle

*smiles*  First of all, Welcome to Susans Miss Chelle!

Secondly, you have not upset anyone, and there is absolutely no need to apologize.  I just wanted to know why you felt the way you did based on the way you phrased the statement.

I was curious about the 'we all (meaning everyone) need (must have, not 'a want', can not live without) a strong belief in a Supreme Being' ... part; that piqued my interest and I wanted to know why you felt that everyone needs that belief.

In a sense, to me, that statement as it applies to me, is exactly equivalent to someone saying: "You (because I am part of 'everyone') need to believe in a Supreme Being."  So, I just thought I would ask the natural question, "Why do you feel that way?"

You're second Post has the following, "I personally believe that there is a Supreme Being that rules over all whether any one believes or not"  That is your personal belief, so, I guess I have to ask, why does that mean, "We all need to believe in a Supreme Being" ?

Lets take it off such a serious topic such as religion to give an example.

I absolutely LOVE Spicy Food and I mean, the Spicier the Better.  That doesn't mean that all of my friends do, or that I expect them to, or that everyone should love spicy food.

Differences.  That's what makes the world go around. If we were all the same and believed the same, what a boring place this would be and it already sucks badly enough as it is ;)

*hugs*

edited to add:
I have much more to say on this:

Quote...we as human beings are geneticly predisposed to seek out and worship a Supreme Being.

but for now, I'll leave that alone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valerie,

I agree with you whole-heartedly. 




Jessica

I've read, with interest, the various threads.  Melissa's post, quoting various odd-by-today's-standards edicts, was especially educational.  I wonder, given "stoning" people to death and threatening burning body parts in Hell, just how "religious" or even morally nice, certain religions are.  Some probably wonder if "transgender tolerant faiths" is an oxymoron -- a pairing of opposites.  I realize that the bible and other religious documents are the culture of religion but reading it in 2006, I wonder if organized religions have ever considered excluding the blatantly immoral parts of such literature.  Cities and countries sometimes have archaic laws on the books (two men sleeping together, for example).  These governmental entities pass laws to get rid of such things.  Pardon my ignorance - I'm no expert on religiion - but have religions made attempts to disavow certain laws in their own books?  It'd also be nice if ambiguous statements in the bible (things that can be interpreted a number of ways) were clarified.

Doing so would seemingly make religion a more tolerant place.

Teri Anne

Quote"transgender tolerant faiths" is an oxymoron

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There you go... you answered your own question :) personally I don't think there is such a thing as a "transgendered tolerant faith", as far as I'm concerned if you don't abide by their rules you can't be a member of their club.  It seems that they all need a special clause to take our kind into account.  May be that's too simplistic a take on things but it's how I see things.  Yes, as I mentioned previously there are those who welcome us with open arms but I'm still sceptical.

Steph

hello!
   I want to say that I am happy that this thread has had some new posts recently. I want to apologize in advance if I offend anyone with my words.
   Steph you say that "if you don't abide by their rules you can't be a member of their club." I just want to say that many times I do not follow the rules of my church but i'm not rejected. The only time that I feel rejected is when I think i'm being rejected and therefore I reject myself. No one follows all the rules but people belong.
  I can't begin to imagine what it is like for a transgendered person to walk into a church. I would almost garuntee people are going to "make you feel uncomfortable" because people are not used to Transgenders. I would say patience and time on both ends and people will become tolerant of Transgenders. One explanation I want to offer is the self fulfulling prophecy:
1)we predicte something will happen
2)we act in according to our prediction
3)what we think was going to happen comes to pass

Agian my apologies if I have offened anyone in what I said.
Take care and God bless
James

http://www.247gay.com/article.cfm?section=66&id=8318

Nice detective work, Leigh :) .. thanks for the article... 

Incidentally, for those who haven't seen it, the other day I posted links to many of the GLBT- affirming denominational websites in another thread: 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2198.0.html

Valerie

What i have read about jesus and what above speaks to me is to get a personal connection to above. It also tells me not to judge another. With those two basics how could anyone go to a building and be a part of a church. Jesus says the riches we can carry with us to the next world are in our hearts. I am sure we have our own riches. I am sure we have our own personal connection. It doesn't sound possible to have a church where everyone agrees. It does sound possible to have all the people of the world having their own personal connection where they have their own riches that are individual to them. And i am sure they wouldn't judge another because they would have their own personal spiritual connection to above.

Would you judge me for not being a part of a group who goes to a church? Would you all agree at that church? If you wouldn't agree then you would be a hodge podge of individual people hanging together with varying ideologies. Now that isn't bad but could anyone be the leader over the other? Whose personal connection to above is more right than anothers?

The only realistic thing is a place where there is no leaders and each person believes what they believe and come and go when they want and well i do that already myself. And for myself i would rather help somebody than to sit in a phewwww waving my hands in the air .. i would feel as if i was a fake doing it for attention..

So with the above i do not go to churches and sit in phewwwwwsss but i choose to just reach out to the stranger in need as jesus did when he spoke of the good samaratan.

I judge you not for what you do i judge myself and my own heart and the reasons if i was to go to a church.. It would be a place of socializing and well that to me isn't very spiritual.. I would rather include all my socializing to be as guided by above as would happen during any hour of any day as i follow in my spiritual path.