Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So, what is drag to you?

"Dressed AS a Girl"

It's the nuances that end up hurting our community. Whether it's straights or gays performing it, or enjoying it, the message is the same-we (and conversely, you) aren't real women. In the case of drag kings, the message is 'your not real men'.

I somehow cringe when I see another drag spectacle on TV. Whether it's Rupaul's show, or now Showtime's Wild Things, it's all the same. Person's making a mockery of living or temporarily visiting time in the other gender.

Our local HRC is having a fundraiser soon. They've named it, "The night of 100 drag queens- a Space Oddity". Hard to believe, but it's true. Imagine a straight group having a party called, "Night of 100 ->-bleeped-<-s-a Space oddity". Gays would be outraged.

Is it that we're society's lowest common denominator? If you want to feel better about yourself, step on the little guy or person with you think is 'weirdest'?

Maybe that's it. Drag is perpetuating our community as just being weird, or a joke.

As someone who's out looking for work, I am doing my best to be stealth. Otherwise, I'll not be taken seriously. Tell me that drag is not hurting my prospects, whether in finding or keeping a job or in reconnecting with my family who can't understand me.

Fact is, I'd rather be able to be out and proud and transgendered, without society deeming me unfit or nuts. Gay, or straight men's interpretation of women or of me just doesn't help.   

Drag is a form of entertainment.  I enjoy a good show, but at the same time it puts a poor light on the trans community.

Many of the "normal" people sees the trans community in that light of being drag.  I still enjoy a good show, but on TV it just puts that poor light on us.

But that's not the message. Drag queens are making fun of performative femininity, with the message that "this stuff doesn't make me a woman." They're claiming the freedom to wear women's things, act feminine, and still be real men. They're making fun of the fact that because they're gay or effeminate, society thinks they must be women, or woman-like.

Drag queens, by and large, are well aware that they're not trans women and they don't represent trans women. Their audience may be more confused on the matter.

Drag kings...are a different sort of thing. Too many of them seem to take themselves far too seriously. I don't find them offensive, but I do tend to find them terribly boring, and I have yet to figure out what their message is, if they have one.

Quote from: kyril on September 25, 2010, 10:35:16 AM


Drag queens, by and large, are well aware that they're not trans women and they don't represent trans women. Their audience may be more confused on the matter.

Kyril, I would agree with this. That's the harm, however. They're mocking gender roles, which I understand. Mocking women, or confusing the public about trans women is another matter. Neither of these outcomes justify the farce that drag is hoping to create. 

By putting on, and taking off their gender role, they are sending a message to the public. Society at large doesn't understand those of us who live the life everyday. If television or the media spent an equal time showing the real lives of people like you or I, then perhaps they could understand the nuanced difference. One is 'entertainment' and the other reality. I'm sure most people who have met us would swear that they've never seen, much less engaged a real trans person. With many of us stealth, the public doesn't understand us nor our normal lives.

Unfortunately, the Rupaul wing of the trans community makes the news, and gets the press. It will take a lot of Brittany Novotny's running for Congress to change the public's mind that we're credible people who should be taken seriously.

I used to feel pretty uncomfortable about drag, but then I saw some acts at a Pride festival, and that certainly opened my eyes.

I'm definitely not a fan of offensive drag. When a guy decides to whip a prosthetic penis from under his skirt during a Lady Gaga parody in front of a family audience, it offends just about every sensibility I can think of. On the other hand, I was thoroughly warmed by a stellar duo in All Mouth and No Trousers. They looked great, sounded awesome and had a wonderful, dinnertime TV type of humour about them. Yes, they crack jokes about femininity, but (those I consider to be) good acts do so in the manner Kyril describes rather than flaunting coarse language, male anatomy or tone-deafness dressed in a wig.

Some drag is very good - the rest of it clearly caters towards some audience of which I am not a part. And while I don't enjoy the idea that trans people might be associated with drag, I think society has realised there is a line drawn there. I've always understood it that the confusion is perceived between 'transsexuals' and cross-dressers, rather than transsexuals and drag artists.

I feel as if drag is a gender performance. There really isn't much else to it besides that. In many newer types of drag performance the emphasis is on presenting as androgynous. There's also faux queens...a kind of drag where (typically) cisgender women perform as women...or more so as men performing as women. I was a drag performer (drag king) and think/feel that after I'm on hormones and feel comfortable in my own skin I will do some sort of drag again. Either as a androgynous/gender ->-bleeped-<- type or as a drag queen.

I go to a club here in NH called the 313, in fact I was just there last night for my birthday. They have drag shows several nights every week. I have enjoyed them immensely and gotten to know several of the drags and call them friends. I can't speak for anywhere else, but in my experience they are generally decent people who are performance artists. They do not portray themselves as being real women, or trans women for that matter. The ones I know have no pretense of being anything other than a performance artist. I think if the average person on the street is confused about the difference between a drag queen and a trans woman, it is not the fault of the drag queen. They don't go around proclaiming themselves to be anything that they are not. I think if people are worried that they are somehow harming us, or "real women", then educating the public is what's needed, not projecting onto the performance artists who are just trying to earn some money.

Drag has a special place in my heart. For me, it took the teeth off of gender roles. Whether live or in some form of media, drag always let me feel more at ease about myself. I'm not sure where I would be at, self-acceptance wise if it weren't for drag, in all its beauty and playful subversiveness.

Of course, there are individuals who might misinterpret drag as a direct representation of all transgender persons, but that says more about their own narrow mindedness than it does about the actual performance.

i'm not too sure how I feel on this subject. One part of me thinks its harmless but at the same time I can see why people with gender problems might take offense. Even if the drag queen on stage isnt intending to hurt anyone and is only doing it for fun people who are watching may not see that and ,as Kyril said, might be confused and therefore may believe they are an MTF. Some small minded person will see that and think "oh thats what all ->-bleeped-<-s must me like" and then that makes transgender people look bad. Its like when you see over the top incredibly camp gay men on TV everyone seems to think thats what a gay person is like when in fact most of them act very "straight." It all depends on how you think and see things.

The other day I received this in the email:

Please join us for the 19th annual Night of 100 Drag Queens. This year's theme, 2010...A Space Oddity, promises to be even more fun and wacky than you can imagine!

It came from a trans group member.  Another member replied:

Oh those "wacky" (and funny) drag queens <sigh>.... An Oddity indeed!!
Is it just me or does anyone else share my bewilderment with "drag" as an "ok" entertainment? Would the NAACP have a "black-face" minstrel show scheduled for its fund-raising banquet?

I've heard too many mainstreamers speak of drag as if it is the same as TG.  RuPaul is seen as our ambassador.  :eusa_doh: Those of us who live the real life rarely are seen as true representatives of transgender people.  So when we apply for a job or just come out to family and friends, we're just another wacky ->-bleeped-<-.

Drag?  You can have it!

I have no issue those who participate, view it, or consider it as purely a form of entertainment.  What gets my back up is those idiots who associate TS with the Drag culture, and when that occurs I view drag queens as very distasteful, even offensive.

Steph

drag queens are mostly gay men who are making money as female impersonators.I don't think i can listen to another cher song without puking.But  don't even mess with rupaul now she is the real deal. I love her

Drag queens are MEN who make a living posing as caricature of women.  They'd better not be confused with transsexual or intersex women.

i was wrong when i said if i hear another cher song i will puke.I love this song
   
Half Breed Lyrics
Artist: Cher

My father married a pure Cherokee
My mother's people were ashamed of me
The indians said I was white by law
The White Man always called me "Indian Squaw"

CHORUS:
Half-breed, that's all I ever heard
Half-breed, how I learned to hate the word
Half-breed, she's no good they warned
Both sides were against me since the day I was born

We never settled, went from town to town
When you're not welcome you don't hang around
The other children always laughed at me
"Give her a feather, she's a Cherokee"

Repeat Chorus

We weren't accepted and I felt ashamed
Nineteen I left them, tell me who's to blame
My life since then has been from man to man
But it can't run away from what I am

I have one issue with what a lot of people have been saying. Drag queens do not always identify as men, and some do have a trans identity. There is no definite line of who is "really trans" and who isn't "really trans."

I used to do a Drag show, long ago while I was still very much in the closet - although at the time I did identify myself as a gay man.  Amongst my workmates of the time, almost all of them were gay guys.. There was also a trans person who also performed with us, who was the MC and she always made the point  of talking about us s "the guys".. And would use our MALE stage names to introduce us.. "Let's give a big hand for Max and his dancing boys" - was me being introduced with my backing dancers..

This was at at the largest gay club in town, who's Drag Acts were widely enough known that they would draw in a straight crowd to see the show.

I can understand why some of you have the reactions you do, not that I agree.. Also here in Australia, we had/have the phenomena known as "Les Girls" a very well known and well regarded Drag act that started back in the mid-60's..  Yes, the humour was risque, and the act somewhat over the top.. But they opened every show with the comment "All our cast are men."

The youtube video features Carlotta, who is well known in Australia - and is almost known as a national treasure..

A link or 2 about Les Girls..
http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1193273.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Transcripts/s1193273.htm)
Stations of the X - 89 carlotta / les girls redux (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj94DQCxHfk#)

Divine in Hairspray the movie......ok....?

Overweight glittery gay men using the caricature of being female to be aggressive, rude, bitchy and hostile.... to complete strangers in clubs...  >:-)

But I'm dressed as a W O M A N.... so it alright baby....

(Nope I don't think so)

But I can just about stand RuPaul.... and it was hysterical when he/she towered over Kylie at a UK award show...

Neither of them knew what to make of the other....

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 25, 2010, 08:16:50 PM


I can understand why some of you have the reactions you do, not that I agree.. Also here in Australia, we had/have the phenomena known as "Les Girls" a very well known and well regarded Drag act that started back in the mid-60's..  Yes, the humour was risque, and the act somewhat over the top.. But they opened every show with the comment "All our cast are men."

The youtube video features Carlotta, who is well known in Australia - and is almost known as a national treasure..

Carlotta is unique as a drag performer because she is actually a transsexual woman ( had srs many years ago) so technically not in drag or a gay man, but unfortunately she is still viewed as a man pretending to be a woman.  ;D 

The drag scene isn't really my thing, however I have no problem with it. I wouldn't have survived when I first came out as trans person without the help of a wonderful trans friend who also happened to do drag professionally.

Z

As someone who has been part of twenty or more Gay Pride parades I have seen many drag queens live & very close up, and still after these years I find it ( somewhat ) offensive. Please do not get me wrong, some of the gurls are lovely people, but seeing them often makes me cringe. But at other times I wish that I was better at makeup and would like to try it once.  :angel:

Quote from: kyril on September 25, 2010, 10:35:16 AM
But that's not the message. Drag queens are making fun of performative femininity, with the message that "this stuff doesn't make me a woman." They're claiming the freedom to wear women's things, act feminine, and still be real men. They're making fun of the fact that because they're gay or effeminate, society thinks they must be women, or woman-like.

Drag queens, by and large, are well aware that they're not trans women and they don't represent trans women. Their audience may be more confused on the matter.

Drag kings...are a different sort of thing. Too many of them seem to take themselves far too seriously. I don't find them offensive, but I do tend to find them terribly boring, and I have yet to figure out what their message is, if they have one.

I had to laugh - my roommate is a drag king, and gave that exact same spiel (about masculinity) when I voiced my concerns about drag.

Overall I just... I don't know how seriously I can take that interpretation of drag performances. What drag performances I've seen - which I'll admit upfront have been very limited - the only entertainment value for the audience is the "ha, it's a man acing feminine / woman acting masculine." The overall message, if any, seemed to be that people exhibiting a significantly different gender role than that assigned to their birth sex is inherently funny/farcical. Hell, name any stereotype that's out there about trans folk and you can find it being mirrored and reinforced in drag performances. Again, my experience is limited, but... I can't help but see drag as a mockery of any and all gender variance.

It would be interesting to do some sort of survey of the audiences of drag shows to find out more about what the general audience thinks of it, rather than just speculating. Hm...

I've been to a few drag shows including Ladyboys and classy ones on Manchester's Canal Street and while I can enjoy the perfomance and admire the work that goes into their acts I hate the rubbishy acts with lots of sexual overtones.

Priscilla Queen of the Desert sshows how classy and enjoyable a drag act can be.

Can someone put up a survey thing to ask who has seen Priscilla and enjoyed or didn't?

these is nothing wrong with this act is there?  well apart from Terence Stamp's acting.  makes me wonder on what he based his performance?

Finally - Pricilla queen of the Desert (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_uv2NTdTlw#)

Quote from: Julie Marie on September 25, 2010, 03:49:22 PM
Would the NAACP have a "black-face" minstrel show scheduled for its fund-raising banquet?

That's exactly my thought on all this.
It may be intended as "good clean fun" but I find it demeaning.

Quote from: Renate on September 26, 2010, 04:35:02 PM

Quote from: Julie MarieWould the NAACP have a "black-face" minstrel show scheduled for its fund-raising banquet?

That's exactly my thought on all this.
It may be intended as "good clean fun" but I find it demeaning.

Yeah. The parallels are pretty strong, but I felt a little squeamish about directly comparing the two... and then I saw this: http://kenyonfarrow.com/2007/05/23/blackface-drag-queen-feels-regret-almost/ (http://kenyonfarrow.com/2007/05/23/blackface-drag-queen-feels-regret-almost/)
I... yeah. I don't know what else there is to say, really.

Oh my God, Renate. That is just awful. The misogyny and racism on display just blows me away.

:o :o :o

I enjoy watching them (as I have a number of friends who perform) but I'm also critical of some of the performances at the same time. To start, you have to approach this with an understanding that a drag show is a form of visual arts or acting. In that context you understand that is similar to watching a play at a theater or putting on a DVD that you are viewing fiction. This can be good in the sense that it does break down gender barriers. Men can dress up as women and visa versa and nobody cares. These are often performed in venues that would make it safer for someone questioning their gender identity to experiment at.

Where I have an issue with it is when the performers start causing misinformation about ->-bleeped-<-. Few know what transgender means and a number of them call themselves transsexuals but generally don't meet the medical definintions of TSism. The misinformation can cause an overall poor understanding of what ->-bleeped-<- really is. It blurs all forms of it into one where the general public believes that a man who throws on a wig and shows up to a gay bar acting ridiculous is the same as someone who lives full time in the opposite sex than birth and goes through the operations. They think that those two examples and everything in between equates what one would call a "->-bleeped-<-."

I've even had to re-educate myself after learning a lot of misinformation from them. For instance, this one bar I know used to hold a show that they called a "transgender review." This was in addition to other drag shows they had. The difference was that the girls in this show had breast implants and lived full time as girls. A lot of people erroneously believe that the only difference between a drag queen and a transsexual is that the latter has boob implants whereas the former doesn't. I happened to know these girls quite well and they would more accurately be termed "she-males" than anything else. An offensive term, yes, but one heavily used and adopted by the pornography and prostitution "professions" which every single one of these performers were well involved with. None of them had or have any intention of SRS because they enjoy the parts they have (because they use them for sex and money).

I have nothing against how people choose to live their lives but you can see how this creates a lot of confusion and misinformation. An actual transsexual is simply one gender born in the wrong gender body. Whether or not they take hormones or have any surgeries at all is irrelevant. Unfortunately these performers have confused people into believing that the differences in the terms are based on the surgeries. While this is often related, you can see how it isn't always the case. Anybody can get boobs but that doesn't make them a TS. Plus, if someone really is a woman trapped in a man's body then why are they advertising the size of their penises, using them to penetrate other people, and revolve their entire lives around gay bars and sex for money? Most of the people here on this board for instance who are MTFs simply want to live their lives as women as best as possible similar to how any genetic woman may live her life.

So again, drag can be funny and harmless entertainment as long as you understand that it is acting and not to be taken seriously and at the same time the performers themselves are not spreading misinformation.

I dislike Drag shows,

But it may be from a different perspective.  I came out to my parents when I was about 13, about the time that dinosaurs ruled the world :laugh:. My Mum and Dad could not accept it. OK. But Mum made me watch every drag show on the "Palladium" Saturday night show. Sorry I don't mean to be obscure but there was weekly televison show in the UK, 'Saturday Night at The Pallidium ( I think ::)' A drag artist 'Danny La Rue" often featured, each time he came on I was forced to watch in order to cure me. It didn't.

I have no problem in accepting actors skills, and healthy humour. But to be told that you are never going to look that good, when looking at a guy in a dress, I found upsetting. In many ways it gave me strength; I realised I would never be, and could not be a guy in a dress. Just took a long time to realise it.

I've never seen a Drag King. I think that would be quite distasteful.  I have several FtM friends, here and in Adelaide, and I  thing a parody of an FtM is more distasteful than MtF. Just my opinions and please do not get offended :-* :-*

Cindy

I find drag to be a tad odd although I cant say ive ever seen a drag show.  I dont feel comfortable displaying my thoughts either way because ultimately i dont feel i really have any right to judge

Hmm, after reading some of the other replies, I feel the need to say that I think I got lucky with the DQ's I worked with.. Some of the guys I worked with saw in me what I was avoiding, and several times suggested I go to the local trans support group..  Foolishly, I didn't, but they certainly made the suggestion..

I was at the Richmond Virginia Gay Pride festival this past Saturday. Yes , there were the usual Gay drag performers on stage and sometimes in the audience . The issue I have is the foul jokes about West Virginia , trailer parks and just foul bad jokes were innapperoperate and ill timed at a so called  "Family " event . I was attired in an outfit that I had been collecting pieces for for thje last six months.

Igo back to a post from this site I saw and commented upon :The poster said , putyou're best foot forward . Every time I go out , I am respectful as to my appearence as I dress full time as part of my therapy. I want to send a message to the non -trans population that we are indeed "Well attired people  ".
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi618.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt266%2Fscrubba%2FEllens%2520Pictures%2520of%2520herself%2520in%2520the%2520world%2FPicture007.jpg&hash=388f868ccae2faa290d6f8c912e1fb06581f247c)
ellen

I'm more and more frustrated with the responses. How is drag a parody of FtMs and MtFs?

Quote from: Nygeel on September 27, 2010, 10:01:11 AM
I'm more and more frustrated with the responses. How is drag a parody of FtMs and MtFs?

I don't think it is, but everyone has a different opinion - and it seems to be related to peoples experiences..

Quote from: kelly_aus on September 27, 2010, 10:27:38 AM
I don't think it is, but everyone has a different opinion - and it seems to be related to peoples experiences..

But...it's just a lot of assumptions and accusations. Like that the drag performers at pride were gay. How do you know they're gay? Why can't a person who identifies as trans use and be overall okay with the genitals they were assigned at birth? Why do cisgender women, and cisgender ideals have to be what trans women strive for?

It doesn't matter to me in the least the sexual orientation, gender identity or chromosomes of the drag performer.
I find the parody offensive.

Would you find a website that posts photos of people and you are supposed to guess if they are XX or XY offensive?

It seems to me the whole point of drag queens to be to make the audience say,
"Wow, I didn't know a guy could look that much like a woman."

I don't think encouraging people to think in this way is a good thing.

In any case, it doesn't seem like anybody's opinions here is going to change.

By definition Drag is a parody of either MtFs or FtMs but its the verbal content that determines if it's nice or not for me.
Considering what I say in my other posts this may seem strange but if the drag person is doing a serious takeoff of a woman or man then it's acceptable...when they start with all the sex/sex organs/toilet innuendos than I prefer to stop watching...and as lots of drag acts are determined or unable to rise above toilet humour then I wouldn't want to see them anyway.
The advertising or blurb accompanying names of dragsters give an indication of what their show will be like.

Saturday Night at the Palladium?   We got it on Sunday here. 

I don't have a problem with it. Transgender and drag are two different areas.

Gennee

Quote from: Dee_pntx on September 27, 2010, 02:17:27 PMI'll be damned if Ru Paul, a gay MAN, is going to be a spokesperson for me or represent my position in the world.

That, to me, is one of the biggest problems with drag. I remember seeing an article where some gay newspaper asked RuPaul if it was okay to use the world "->-bleeped-<-" and he said yes. Excuse me? Sir, you don't get to speak for trans women everywhere. Shame on him for not pointing that out and shame on the paper for asking him.

They are different things. If everybody recognized that fact it wouldn't be so problematic.

I think that drag is a bit... weird, and it's what I thought that all trans stuff was when I was younger (trans = drag). Yes, I know, it's awful. After I learnt that TS people existed, I thought that they were only MTF.

I guess that I just don't get drag.

In Sweden, we had a drag group (After Dark) who were in the Eurovision Song Contest. The song was called La Dolce Vita, but I'm too lazy to link it, if anyone wants to hear it they can google or something.

Depends on the show and the artist.

What I don't like is the drag queen sings in playback type of performance as it's boring unless they do very funny things there.
A drag queen doing just a typical revue thing, but well done, is okay but gets boring over time.
I like it when they do funny sketches, not making fun of women, but of gender stereotypes or of anything unrelated to gender stuff.
I also like it when they parodize drag queens; Divine's styling is an example of this.
What often works very well is when the Drag Queen is just the moderator of a show with various artists and bands.
I've never seen any make fun of transsexuals, if they did, I'd hate it.
I've almost never seen any Drag Kings and those I've seen were extremely boring apart from the Drag King show excerpt in "Venus Boyz".

The problem is, most Drag Queen shows I've ever seen were just boring playback singing.

Mary & Gordy are (were?) two very good and hilarious Drag Queen artists in Germany in the 80ies, one played diva roles and the other one funny roles, they were often on TV. When I watched this, I often thought I'd like to do that too when I'm adult. But my parents were kinda confused when I said that.

It is that blurring that makes people confused. Drag queens will generally be heard talking about upcoming shows, crossdressers talking about clothes and shopping, and transsexuals talking about work, hobbies, and boyfriends the same as GGs would discuss. The problem is that the cis public is erroenously led to believe that it is all the same. This confusion is often primarily caused by the drag queens.

I have said this before but I will say it again - if someone takes one person as defining another person purely based on a common trait, theme, or possible similar situation, then it is the fault of the observer not the offender.

I believe we should all be able to do what we like. Some people like drag, some people like to be in drag. Let them do so. If an onlooker sees them as somehow bad and then uses that against trans people, it is not the fault of the dragster at all.

Similarly if they want to identify as "->-bleeped-<-" I say let them. It is just a label :)



If it is confusing then the answer is education, NOT to take away the thing causing the confusion.

I don't think that drag performers directly or intentionally cause the confusion.  I think the confusion is the result of people not having much exposure to drag queens, or cross dressers, or people who are openly transexual, or anyone who crosses gender boundaries in any obvious way.  It's not the public's fault either.  People can't be expected to be knowledgeable about things they rarely encounter.  There will inevitably be confusion about trans-related issues because we're such a small minority of the population, and accurate information about us is hard to come by unless you make the effort to seek it out.

Anyway, I like drag.  I don't think it's meant to be taken too seriously.  It's just a parody of gender, some light-hearted entertainment.  When I was younger, drag made me more comfortable about exploring my own gender identity.  And I know it's had the same effect on other people too.  In college, I had a classmate who came out as MTF after attending the annual Drag Ball.  She said that having an opportunity to present as female in public in a setting where it would not be seen as weird gave her the confidence to come out, and then transition.  It had a similar kind of affect on me.  So it's not all bad.

Personally I do not like it.    I did sing one time in a show where the performers were all supposed to be transgendered girls.   Contrary to what I was told, the rest of the acts were very draggy, meaning way overdone makeup, sexual flaunting, lots of feathers, and skimpy clothes.  You know the scene.  I sang second, though, did a very serious song, got a standing O and did an encore.   Had I known what it was like I would not have done it.  When someone told me I was a very pretty and natural drag queen I was infuriated.  Not his fault, now that I look back on it.  It was mine.  I should have asked more questions.  I felt dirty and degraded, like my identity had been assaulted.  But I learned well what I was comfortable with and what I was not.  Now I have nothing against those who wish to perform this way.  It is just not for me.

I have mixed feelings. However, as I am now transitioning, I have more worries about the fact that it perpetuates the wrong knowledge upon those who don't understand gender dysphoria!

Drag?

Not my scene.  Can't get into it.  Never could.

I believe in a live-and-let-live philosophy.  People want to do drag?  Cool!  Just keep me out of it.  I won't bother them if they don't bother me.  Who am I to say them nay?  To each their own. 

I have several friends who perform in drag shows, and I have always seen it as just them having fun by dressing up and dancing.  I don't see the harm in it at all.  They are both gay men who enjoy dressing as women, and I see this as being completely different from MtF people dressing up.

I've never been to one ^.^ But I imagine it could be a lot of fun, perhaps a little bit discomforting, but I would still try to enjoy myself.

Quote from: Dee_pntx on September 27, 2010, 02:17:27 PM

Yes they are.  VERY different.

What pisses me off is that the cis world does not see, recognize, understand or CARE that there is a distinct difference and they lump us all into the same group.

I'll be damned if Ru Paul, a gay MAN, is going to be a spokesperson for me or represent my position in the world.

I have nothing against gay people, men or DQ's.  Just don't lump me in those groups, I don't belong there.

Dee, most people don't know the difference. They lump us into the same group without ever researching to find out what the diference is.

Gennee

QuoteWhat pisses me off is that the cis world does not see, recognize, understand or CARE that there is a distinct difference and they lump us all into the same group.

Very true - an online acquaintance found out about my problem the other day and was like "ooh! I know a good help site for that!" with the best of intentions. It was a site for coming out and such... for young gay boys. I blame "LGBT" for that!