Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I know that we have discussed the joys of passing as one's target gender when one tries and we have discussed the difficulties, having already started transition, of being read as our target gender when we are actually in the mode that aligns with our birth-sex (ie. out with our partner who just wants a night with the person they married). But what about passing before transition? Have people had trouble with this, passing when you didn't want to? When was it that you first started getting seen as your target gender when you weren't even trying? And what awkward situations have arisen?

I am an MTF and I have never dressed as female in public. In fact I have only dressed as female perhaps 4 or 5 times in my entire life and all of those have been inside the home. When I am outside in the world I always have and always do present as male because I haven't started transition yet and I had college to go to, now I have a job plus my family doesn't support it and most people who know me don't know that I am trans.

However, even in guy mode, totally without any make-up, no girl clothes, no nice manicure or haircut or eyebrows I have often been read as a woman in public which has often caused problems and embarrassment for me when at work, when at a restaurant and when using public restrooms.

I can't count the number of times men have stared at me in the bathrooms and how they have walked into the room, seen me and walked back out again looking confused only to come in again and glare at me. I have had cleaning ladies tell me I am in the wrong bathroom and bouncers in clubs shout at me for walking into the men's. Sometimes when walking towards the toilets where the two doors are side by side a woman coming out of the ladies' has kept the door open for me. At the office when dealing with the public I have been called 'mam' much to the hilarity of my work colleagues and the embarrassment of me. When out at restaurants with my partner servers have said 'hello ladies', 'here's your meal ladies' for the whole evening. I have had fellow passengers who were male at coach-stops pick up my bags. I have got into clubs for free because the bouncers took me for a girl and I have been shouted at many times with all sorts of female pronouns and labels.

Two of the most embarrassing times are as follows: One was when I was at the library and having scanned my pass and walked past the security guard the security guard shouted back to me, 'mam, please come back here'. The problem was that he wouldn't believe I was the same person as on the male name on the computer screen and I was forced to show further ID to prove it was indeed my library card. Another time was when I was with my parents-in-law and visiting some people I had never met before for lunch at their house and after we all sat down the man of the house turns to my mother-in-law and asks 'and who is this nice young lady we have here?'. ??? My partner and her parents and I went dead silent and my my partner's mother had to explain that I was her daughter's boyfriend! That was an embarrassing lunch!

I don't really know what it is about me that causes all these problems. I haven't oficially been on HRT. By unofficially I mean I was put on medication to treat acne when I was a late-teen and an unexpected side-effect was a significent development in breast-tissue and some softening of my features. But you can see from my picture that even with make-up I don't really pass. Now imagine without make-up.The breasts actually have become such a problem in the last few years that I am actually considering buying a binder. I have got some snide comments from children who laugh at the 'man with boobs' or 'the ugly woman'.  *snif* :(

While all this would be very nice if I were actually transitioning it has created a huge amount of embarrassment and worry because I live as a guy 100% of the time. In recent years I have tried hard to play down my feminine gestures, worn a more masculine haircut and tried to act in a more masculine way so I wouldn't have such difficulty living as a guy.

So after all that waffle, my question is, have you been outed as transgender or viewed as your target-gender even when you were pre-transition and thought that you were portraying yourself as your birth-sex? What problems has that caused for you?

The other day I was riding around with a friend of mine who, at the time, I was not out to.  Someone asked her later who was the guy she had in her car.  Awkward, awkward, when she told me.  I've since come out to her, there's just too many people in this small town who know about it to hide it from her much longer, and I'd rather her hear it from me.  I have been trying to pass, though, short hair, guy clothes.  I just can't bring myself to wear female clothes now.

Quote from: jmaxley on October 01, 2010, 05:57:14 PM
The other day I was riding around with a friend of mine who, at the time, I was not out to.  Someone asked her later who was the guy she had in her car.  Awkward, awkward, when she told me.  I've since come out to her, there's just too many people in this small town who know about it to hide it from her much longer, and I'd rather her hear it from me.  I have been trying to pass, though, short hair, guy clothes.  I just can't bring myself to wear female clothes now.

Yah, I hate those awkward moments. And then the atmosphere is all weird and you have to pretend you are annoyed for being seen as your target sex but at the same time you are happily suprised and it's all complicated and messy.

That reminds me about the time I went to collect my dad in my car at this place where there is a gateguard. We had agreed to meet there but I was waiting ages for him to show. Apparently it turned out that my dad had asked the guard had he seen any cars but the guard just said 'yah, some woman, but didn't see your son.' This was before I was out to him. So awkward....

I used to wear my hair full even when I had a full beard.  Several times when out with my spouse a waitress would approach from behind me and ask what "you ladies" wanted, see my beard and be embarassed.  I just waved it off and tried to reassure them I wasn't offended.

After I came out, several people told me they had experiences where they would be with a friend who didn't know me, see me at some distance and say "there's *oldname*" and their friend would say "Oh, I thought that was a woman." 

I and my friends would just chalk it up to being an honest mistake and no big deal.  If you make a big deal about it, it becomes a big deal.  If you shrug it off then it is just a simple mistake.

- Kate

Quote from: niamh on October 01, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
have you been outed as transgender or viewed as your target-gender even when you were pre-transition and thought that you were portraying yourself as your birth-sex?

Lately, since I'm growing out my hair to be shoulder length, I've been clocked as a girl a couple of times. It also doesn't help that my boy clothing is bordering on androgynous. First time this happened, it was during jury duty... the judge called me ma'm. The second time it happened, I was at a Do It Center (a hardware store), buying a tape measure, and the bag boy said, "Do you need a bag, miss?"

Quote from: niamh on October 01, 2010, 05:15:25 PM
What problems has that caused for you?

Nothing, really. I usually just look at my friend who's generally with me and look back at the person and let out a really deep, "Uhh, no!"

It's best to take these mistakes as complements on how your features do have some femininity in them rather than treating it as something offensive. This means you're on the right track :)

You have my sympathies.  I had lots of issues with this.   Like you I had a lot of female physical markers (breasts, hips) pre-everything.  In stores unless I grew facial hair I was frequently referred to as "Miss."  Usually most people around me laughed it off when it happened before I came out.  But at times it did cause some awkward problems.

One of my co-workers (who was also a close friend) worked a night gig at Victoria Secret and at lunch one day our co-workers coerced her into showing how to take measurements for bra-fittings.  She didn't want to titillate the guys by using a female to demonstrate, so she grabbed me to be her model.  As she measured, her eyes nearly bulged out of her head and under her breath she whispered "you're a b-cup?"  She didn't share what she found, but she never interacted in the same way with me again.  At another job I was regularly ridiculed for having swaying hips when I walked. 

Once I came out, things became very difficult with my wife at the time.  When we were out -- even when I did my best to appear male -- the slightest mis-read by folks around us sent her into a tizzy.  Thankfully the couples therapist we saw during the divorce got her to recognize that I couldn't control my biology and how people read me.

And FYI -- looking at your pic which you claim "doesn't pass" -- you totally do.

I had that problem all through my teens. In my small home town it was no big deal because everybody knew I was "strange" but when I went to college (a long ways away) I couldn't pass as a guy even with short hair and baggy clothes - strange considering it was 1969!

Bathrooms were never an issue because I would only use 'singles'.

Quote from: K8 on October 01, 2010, 06:22:20 PM
I used to wear my hair full even when I had a full beard.  Several times when out with my spouse a waitress would approach from behind me and ask what "you ladies" wanted, see my beard and be embarassed.  I just waved it off and tried to reassure them I wasn't offended.

Happens to me too. From the back, and from a distance I suppose I look feminine. Enough to warrant -lots- of "ma'am", and "ladies". It's happening far more frequently. I tend to get some awkward stares from the front. I assume it's my light facial shadow that's giving me away more than anything. Soon, hopefully very soon, I'm going to shoot myself in the face... WITH A LASER!

And to answer the original question. I don't actually recall any major, or at least memorable incidents where I was mistaken for my target gender before transitioning.

I have never been taken for my target gender pre-everything.  But then again you wouldn't when you would see someone who shave their head and has a full beard.  Even younger I was never taken as female.  I have always had facial hair.

Count yourself as being very fortunate to be mistaken as your target gender.

If looks wasn't always a factor and it was about about talk or how one acts, then I could say a solid yes... experienced this many times.

The key point is how many times I've been asked for marriage.

I just be myself and not try to fool anybody.

Thanks everyone for sharing their stories. It's always nice to read them because I don't know any trans people off-line and so it can get a lil lonely otherwise. Currently my goals are to get some work on my face to reduce my beard coverage. Then when I lose the weight (since becoming mostly vegan a few months ago I've lost 11kgs (24lbs) but I've still 11 more kgs to go),  I think I will go out with my partner and we'll have some fun shopping for some cute clothes and then have a girls night out. A few of those and maybe I can be happy in postponing transition until after kids.

Quote from: bibilinda on October 01, 2010, 09:46:41 PM
I think instead of embarrassed, you should be incredibly happy about your particular and definitely VERY UNIQUE AND ENVIABLE situation. I think YOU SHOULD BE THANKING GOD EVERY DAY FOR THAT.

I just can't understand why you even complain about "passing before even transitioning".

PASSING, WHETHER SOME PEOPLE ADMIT IT OR NOT, IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF ALL MTF AND FTM people, I'm 100% sure. You already achieved the goal, even in "guy mode" and, you complain about it?

Oh, I amn't complaining, at least I never intended to when writing this and I aplogise if that's the way it come across. Know that I am very grateful for these situations that were only awkward at the time but looking back make me smile. So yah, I am very thankful.

When I was a younger teen and a kid yeah I did I grew my hair out and my face hadn't properly masculinized and my facial hair was at a stage where I could epilate it out with tweezers.

I did pass occasionally without trying (A new years party which I recall a pre-transition sinnyo/gemma was at ;) The mother of the host Saw me and described me as the glasses girl with the long brown and blond hair... Even when told I was male she didn't believe them :D.)

but it wasn't common when I put the effort in and 'crossdressed' properly with foundation and everything I had a reasonable passiblity rate in the low light where I was seen in public definitely not perfect. My voice was kinda weak too.

However as I got older this advantage slipped away Crossdressing and feminizing my presentation actually became more painful as I was only articulating what I didn't have anymore and it gradually happened less and less before I'd transitioned I'd not been 'mistaken' for a female in 3-4 years.

It begun happening again once starting hormones. :)
Although I'd have an easier time with my bone structure if I'd transitioned then v_v

I went to the mall by myself the other day, as I was washing my hands in the woman's washroom, a lady walked in. She walked out, walked back in, and promptly told me I was in the wrong washroom, I tried to reassure her I was female, but she waited until I had left to actually go into a stall.

And on friday i was approached by a fellow classmate who asked me if i was gay (I lol'd at that), or if I was biologically female, cuz she had heard rumours of both and couldn't quite decide which was right. Three weeks into the school year, and still some people were trying to figure me out. That was the bright point of my day. Also a very awkward moment, seeing as half the class was there when she asked.

Just some of the awkwardly silver lined moments in my boring life.  ;D
I pass better in life then I do in pictures.

Three times at work ive been referred to as a girl by customers. This has only been when they havent seen me from the front. My friends laughed about it, and I tried to act embarrassed, but it was so nice hearing it :)

i pass in the most odd situations. lets just say that.

(hehe, just today actually. Some guy was about to start hitting on me when his friend said "um, that's a dude" :P made my afternoon)

I have very dark facial hair and incredibly fair skin, so generally when I'm being more male in appearance I think I don't pass at all because of the really obvious shadow (i think my voice is a dead give away too), however there's been 3 or four occasions now where I obviously do. the most recent involved a close friend. I was at the pub with another friend and she arrived, spotted him (he's quite distinctive) saw me from behind, thought I was his girlfriend and decided not to come over as she doesn't really know my friends real girlfriend that well and didn't want to disturb us...I did wonder why she was so surprised when i spotted her an had a chat. she told me a few days later when we met for lunch, i just laughed...we'd lived together for a year!

rant time... (but not on this)

Nobody in my memory called me a girl except this one dude back like when i was 13 said, "Are you a girl?" when I was acting weird... and when this guy in 6th grade said, "you look like a girl when you pulled your hair up!" that was 6 yrs ago.... long long time ago.



but i hate... this is more recent, but people are calling me "kiddo", "you're just a kid", "you look younger", recent stuff.... kind of annoying, but i guess it's the spiro on my skin.



YEAh i was planning to go on a big rant but ehhh, i don't got much to chat about.

Quote from: SamanthaFLA on October 01, 2010, 07:28:46 PM
Soon, hopefully very soon, I'm going to shoot myself in the face... WITH A LASER!

Thank you for that.  It's been a very stressful day, and that made me crack up.