Susan's Place Transgender Resources

My school gave out these free flu shot forms our parents have to fill out and on the form it says GENDER M____F so since it says Gender should I circle male?

Not if it's an official form. I feel, the only time you should do that is if you've changed your name and the like. Your status as female is probably on record with the school.

I know but the form says Gender not sex, gender and sex are not the same thing. And I really don't want to circle Female.

Yeah on official forms still circle that ugly F. I know it sucks but you dont want to get in legal trouble. Also, if it has to do with anything medical, like flu shots, it could be a matter of personal health to circle your sex.

By gender people typically mean sex.  In reality, yes they are different things, but more so in our realities than in most other peoples.  In other words, in our world the difference between sex and gender is quite distinct.  To the world at large the difference is usually nothing more than a technicality.

Its an official form.  I'd fill it out legally. 

How is it official? What if I left it blank? What would happen if I DID circle male?

Draw an octagon and write the word "trans."

Quote from: Nygeel on October 14, 2010, 10:07:56 PM
Draw an octagon and write the word "trans."

Would I get in trouble for doing that?

Quote from: Kentrie on October 14, 2010, 10:11:03 PM
Would I get in trouble for doing that?

*shrugs* Probably not. It's just something I would do for my own amusement.

Just not mark anything and leave it blank.  Before my legal change, I did that most of the time.  Never got in trouble for it and no one ever said anything.

I'll probably just leave it blank because if they challenge me on something and I get offended then I'll turn very nasty and get in A LOT of trouble.

Leave it blank. If they notice it, then fill it out - play off leaving it blank as an honest mistake.

That's how I get through forms when I'm not sure how "official" they are (hell, even if they are official. If they have my details, then they'll figure it out without me saying anything. If they fill it in themselves, they'll guess male - then a mismatch with my legal status isn't my fault, technically :laugh:).

As a "legally female" post-T man (complete with facial hair and all), I am well aware of how demeaning and generally crappy having to tick the wrong box is. I avoid it wherever possible.

a quick surf found this link that says females generate a stronger antibody response?
We hear reports of flu jabs killing people so in the interests of your health and to cut this risk just circle F as no-one in school will see the form anyway?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/opinion/28klein.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1287129958-UMHgC3YALJomsOGw5DkrlQ (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/opinion/28klein.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1287129958-UMHgC3YALJomsOGw5DkrlQ)

Quote from: Teknoir on October 15, 2010, 02:49:16 AM
As a "legally female" post-T man (complete with facial hair and all), I am well aware of how demeaning and generally crappy having to tick the wrong box is. I avoid it wherever possible.

How did that happen, out of curiosity?   ???  Is it on every document?

Quote from: Alessandro on October 15, 2010, 03:25:03 AM
How did that happen, out of curiosity?   ???  Is it on every document?

Because I'm trans, full time and post T, but still pre-op.

In NSW, I cannot get a new birth certificate until I've had top surgery, a full hysto, and 2 letters from doctors stating that my "SRS" is complete and I can no longer medically function in my birth sex for reproductive purposes... permanently (Not that I could in the first place ::) ).

However - it's not all bad. We don't have gender markers on any ID, and we can use whatever title we want (or failing that, no title at all). We can change our name to whatever we want (as long as it's not offensive) for pretty much any reason we want - and being trans is a big "approved" stamp straight off the bat. No courts involved - just a form to fill out and $144.

So I am legally speaking, a female Mr. <male name> :laugh:.

The only thing that outs me is my birth certificate, and the gender marker on some government computer systems. I have to tick "F" on the forms that run through those, or the computer will throw a hissy fit.

Most things in everyday life (including at work - and that's a government owned company) I can tick "M" without an issue though.

All in all - If you opened my wallet and scrutinized my ID, you wouldn't find anything that'd out me. Even my credit card says "Mr". So, it's no biggie. Just annoying on the few (rare) occasions I have to give my actual legal marker.

So it's happened due to stupid, stupid laws, and very good compromises (and workarounds) put in place to allow early transition transgendered people to live with a minimum of hassle and discrimination.

Sure, it'd just be easier on us if they allowed us to change our birth certificate with less hassle - but you're talking about the country that banned gay marriage in 1997 (or so), and refused on both sides of government to even consider it in this years election despite protests. They aren't exactly progressive anymore ::).

To bring it back to the thread - You get the hang of what box to tick when after a while :laugh:. I've got a mis-mash of gender markers across different databases.

If you are in doubt, you can always ask. Or, try the M box, and if your forms are rejected - talk to someone about it.

However - I would recommend outing yourself to medical staff WHEN RELEVANT (ie, if you suspect it might affect anything).

My local GP that does my shots knows, but the nurses that prep the shot haven't been told (They asked about my prostate once - that's a pretty good sign my privacy has been respected). My records there say "M", my status is strictly off the record, yet I've had no troubles with public health coverage being rejected. My dentist on the other hand, does not need to know (unless I have to "go under" for something major, in which case I'd be telling the anesthesiologist. For checkups and fillings? Pffft... nah).

Oh I get it.  I just meant stuff like driving licence etc.  That's the most important everyday stuff.  I have all that changed pre-T and I've never seen a government form!  What those for in the uk I wonder!?  I don't know what the requirements are to change your certificate in the UK but I think its been on T for a while and chest surgery (perhaps).

As long as you aren't outed on a day to day basis it's not such a big deal. 

2 years of Real Life Experience makes you the opposite sex in UK.

Lots of CD/TVs want to be seen as opposite sex without doing RLE and I for one say Don't let them!   :D

Quote from: lilacwoman on October 15, 2010, 06:50:34 AM
2 years of Real Life Experience makes you the opposite sex in UK.

Lots of CD/TVs want to be seen as opposite sex without doing RLE and I for one say Don't let them!   :D

Not quite.

2 yrs RLE is just a part now and must be adequately documented showing name change. To make it legal you need to have had a Gender Recognition Certificate issued.  There must be acceptable medical diagnosis of persistent gender dysphoria and evidence that you have taken major steps to modify your body and appearance to be consistent with your gender identity and that it is a permanent change. (from GIRES)

Quote from: Theo on October 15, 2010, 12:23:24 PM
To make it legal you need to have had a Gender Recognition Certificate issued.

You can get your drivers licence, passport and any other legal documents as male without a GRC.
The only things that a GRC changes is your birth certificate and marrying rights. You can live as a legal male without it.
I'm sure you knew this though.

As for the original question; tick F. In this context, gender means sex.
If it's official stuff, you can cause yourself far more trouble and embarrassment by ticking the (legally) wrong box. At the moment, your body is female and anyone administering medication needs to know that. For your own safety.

Quote from: Ryan on October 15, 2010, 12:37:02 PM
You can get your drivers licence, passport and any other legal documents as male without a GRC.
The only things that a GRC changes is your birth certificate and marrying rights. You can live as a legal male without it.
I'm sure you knew this though.

As for the original question; tick F. In this context, gender means sex.
If it's official stuff, you can cause yourself far more trouble and embarrassment by ticking the (legally) wrong box. At the moment, your body is female and anyone administering medication needs to know that. For your own safety.

Yes, Ryan, that's the prob, gender is one thing sex is another and different institutions have different parameters about who is regarded from their viewpoint as M or F.

For the OP definitely for your safety tick F since it is to do with the medical requirements of a female body not your gender.

I see a couple people saying to mark female because it's a medical form.  I really can't see the logic behind that one in this case.  He's getting a free flu shot.  I can almost guarantee no one cares if the recipient of the vaccine is male or female.  It just doesn't matter.  If it's for school, it'll be a quick get in, get your shot, get out.  There are too many people that need the shot for it to be a big deal of questions.  That's why he has to have a paper saying his parents have given their informed consent.

For anything government related or medical, mark down F.  If they have to bring up your form later or make sure you had the shot or something, there might be a problem because you'd have different genders picked for the different forms.  And those forms treat gender and sex like they are the same, pretend they all say sex. 

I decided to let my doctor give me the shot when I go. It was just a permission form my mom had to sign.