Susan's Place Transgender Resources

This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

I believe people are born ftm (or mtf). It's not conditional on what one does about it. Now arguably, transsexual implies someone who has transitioned but I believe it's a condition we're born with before we have a chance for surgeries and the rest.

Eh, if your sex is not the same as your gender, you're not cisgendered and you face special issues in your life. If your sex is female and your gender is male, you have a lot in common with the guys who want the surgery even though you're not getting it. I don't think the inability (or lack of desire) to get surgery means you're not transgendered. If you've got female hardware and male software you're FtM, I think.

As a guy in your own mind, surgery or not, you will have things in common with other guys and things in common with us FTM guys as well so yes, not being born cisgendered it would be accurate enough to describe yourself as FTM (or in a lady's case MTF).

As Nero said Transsexual arguably implies a physical transition of a transgendered person but while it might include surgery for some guys/gals not every one desires, needs or is able to have hormones or surgery.

I thought a transsexual was someone whose brain sex didn't match their social gender and who transitions (or wishes to transition) into living as their target gender. HRT and plastic surgery (to change facial features and genitial sex) can help but I always thought that once you live as your target gender and are socially seen and accepted as your target gender that you were no long a transsexual. For me I am a transsexual (a MTF) now, and I am pre-O, then when I am on O and am doing RLE I am also a transsexual but once I transition to living fulltime to living as a woman I am no longer TS, I am a woman with a TS past, regardless of what is between my legs.

I know that the general public continues to see a trans person as trans even long after their operation and living fulltime, all their focus is put on the 'sex-change' but that is not what a transsexual is according to the definitions as commonly agreed by the trans community itself.

Afterall, many FTMs stop at a hysterectomy and do not go any farther. Some MTFs even do not get a hysterectomy done. Think of Thomas Beatie. He was seen and lived as a man for years and he still had a womb.

Quote from: Samson99 on October 17, 2010, 10:55:40 PM
This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

20 years ago, I was taught that "transexual" is someone who is actively trasnsitioning surgically, and once the surgical transition was complete, they became the destination gender.  People who transitioned socially, but not surgically, were called "non-operative transexuals."  Today, the "transexual" labe4l has fallen out of favor, and those people are typically called "non-ops," or non-op transitioners," or something like that.  Those who lived socially as the opposite sex part of the time were called "part timers."  The MTF or FTM label was applied in any of these instance, and still is as far as I know. 

However, the MTF or FTM label wasn't generally applied to anyone who wasn't transitioning.  People who cross-dressed recreationally, were simply called male crossdressers or female crossdressers.  But now, we seem to have a growing understanding of the diversity in the "transgender" community, and we have a lot more opportunity to maintain connections and community through the Internet.  AS a result, thransitioners are in frequent contact with peopl who might like to transition, but never do, and don't cross dress either.  It only makes sense, in my view, to call these people "mtf non-transitoners" or "ftm non-transitioners," or something like that.  It's clear and unambiguous.

So I would think you might call yourself an "ftm non-op," an "ftm part timer," or an "ftm non-transitioner," depending on which describes you best.  Or you might just say "mtf" if you you're not in a hurry to advertise your transition status.

I understand the need for distinct definitions, but I think first and foremost what really matters is how you identify.  Sure it'd be nice to know the proper word so you can say I am a "whatever you call it here."  But I've kinda given up on that for a while, partially because I do feel like it causes a lot of circular discussions.  I feel like a man, I feel good when I am seen and treated like a man, so before I am non-op, or trans, or whatever, I make sure that the most important term to describe or label myself as is that I am a man.  It's taken a while to come to that mindset, but it's kinda stuck.  Of course, like I said, labels and definitions have there usefulness and I kind of envy cultures that have what seven or so different kinds of gender, but what can I say, I also love simplicity.

Quote from: Samson on October 17, 2010, 10:55:40 PM
This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

When it comes down to it, when I have to tell someone, when it matters, I respond candidly with, "I'm a person who has extreme gender dysphoria about being male.  While you may have heard of others who transition to another sex to deal with it, I choose to live with the condition without changing my physical sex."  And then I let them ask questions and do my best to fill in the gaps. 

Does it have a name?  Transgendered has been used as the umbrella term, but I normally like to describe it as a condition.  I tend to say "I have GID" instead of "I am transgendered."  Am I a transsexual?  According to current diagnostic criteria, the answer is a resounding yes, but I find too many in the community don't like me identifying like that - they've reserved that term for people who are like them and they are a hard group to define - nevertheless they have no issue saying I'm not one of them. ;)

I'll start by saying with the rate at which the definitions change and that almost all of us make up our own dictionary as we go along it doesn't help when trying to sort out the milestones that define who's what (pre, post, non, the list goes on and on).

As far as my own definition, what qualifies someone as MtF or FtM would imply that some change from point A to B has occured.  I don't think its fair to lock people out that lack the resouces to seek therapy or HRT as a means to create an obvious physical change either though.  So I would say, reducing it down to someone who has rejected their birth gender in favor of something else would probably qualify as Mt? or Ft?.  Crossdressers by defintion are not rejecting their gender, merely expressing a personality trait, so I would think the conventional labels would apply there.

Post-Op is its own world.  I certainly understand the rejection of the MtF or FtM label at that point but even to say I'm a....with a transgender past is medically inaccurate.  The reality is our bodies are different from people who haven't done the things we've done, I would argue that transgender medicine should be its own speciality becuase of the uniqueness of our bodies, referring to it as "a transgender past" ignores the fact that we can still have medical issues related to the gender we were born into, etc..  As far as society at large is concerned, we will always be transgendered.  I'm not suggesting every stealth blow their doors off, but we aren't doing ourselves any favors not to embrace our history - I for one think its a large part of what keeps us at the margins of society.

I believe the answer is yes. I was diagnosed as transsexual, my decision to try and live with the body I was born with is a choice (for me) of how to deal with it. It doesn't make me any less trans. It isn't always the easiest choice. I remain open to the possibility that I could change paths somewhere down the road.

Z

Yes, no matter how or what you decide to do ... it doesn't make you any less TG, We don't need to wear a band on our heads to show the world we are trans, we are who we are and that's enough...

You ftm or mtf whether or not you have the surgery. I was always transsexual but I never wanted to have the surgery. There's the prevailing thought that one is transsexual only if they have the surgery but that's not true.


Gennee

My opinion is that you can't measure your gender by a dictionary definition (i.e. Trans = wants surgery). Your transition is your own, and you're not any less trans or any less man than someone who does get surgery.

Your transition shouldn't be marked by tally points that the medical system gives you. Your body is your own, so claim in everyway possible.  Transitioning is a journey, and only you can say when you feel complete and connected with your body.

So to sum up... yeah, call yourself FTM. And for the love of god, don't get surgery if you don't really really *really* want to.

Quote from: interalia on December 19, 2010, 08:12:40 AM
When it comes down to it, when I have to tell someone, when it matters, I respond candidly with, "I'm a person who has extreme gender dysphoria about being male.  While you may have heard of others who transition to another sex to deal with it, I choose to live with the condition without changing my physical sex."  And then I let them ask questions and do my best to fill in the gaps. 

However, you did have one surgery.

Quote from: CaitJ on December 22, 2010, 04:23:19 PM
However, you did have one surgery.

Yup, back when I expected I would live the rest of my life as female, I had an orchi done.  It stopped my hair loss and prevented my body from further masculinizing.  I suppose then, despite the fact that I live as male now, I did "partially" transition - not because having an orchi automatically means imminent sex change, but because my intention was to continue along that path after the orchi.  I never did though.

Regardless, I don't really feel I have a name for what I am anymore either with or without the surgery.  I experience gender dysphoria.  If that makes me transgendered/transsexual so be it.

I have had my own questions about this lately. Just read through this and its helped. I definitely see myself as male and if i am honest with myself, I always have. I doubt ops would ever be an option for me. Plus i have some health problems which would interfere. But inside I am male, not female. I hate it when friends and family refer to me as female. It makes me cringe. I live as male day to day. (although i haven't come out as trans to everyone)

So is it right that i call myself FTM transgender?

I gave up defining myself as m2f transsexual or crossdresser or whatever. It is just a banal debate of nominalism vs. realism. I just try to express myself and just enjoy my own life, whatever others call or intervene me. It is not their business, but my own.

Barbie~~

I heard the talking that the diffrence between ->-bleeped-<-s and transexuals or the diffrence between transexuals and transgenderes.. is that transexuals have or want surgery while the other part dont..
I feel it bull->-bleeped-<- and way to steriotype, sure, ->-bleeped-<-s manly dont want to chance there body,
and sure transexuals manly do but this it too easy to be real.

being transexual is about how you identify, what you wanna do with your body is up to yourself,
if you cant chance your body, dont need, or dont want to, then your still transexual.

Transgender first and formost, is NOT what you own or do NOT own down below-the-belt...

I t is a mind-state of how you feel, from the inside out...

With that being said, here is something you can use, most feel that to be "proportionally correct" they have to go through "total" surgical transformation...because this is what I thought...

But after years of being who I am, I know this to be false...when I look in the mirror, I don't see a female staring back at me, I see who I truly am...a male... trapped, maybe, but I'd like to think that I was given this "host" to face challenges..of which I have successfully adapted and overcame...

Having top surgery meant that my shirts would fit the way I wanted, and needed them to fit, aesthetically pleasing...my pecs are beautiful...but I don't need to "mutilate" my body, and I am talking about f2M...because for some who feel the need to achieve the "full" male status...it is just that mutilation...and it is expensive....however, if you give me a working penis, I'll be the first one in line  ;D

But I don't need a piece of skin to make me feel anymore than I already am...which is a male figure in a female host body....

The choice is yours...aesthetically if you feel the need for surgery to feel "completed" then go fer it....on the other hand, judging a book by it's cover, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good read...it truly IS, whats inside that counts....!

Sooo yeah, You are still f2M, even if you don't sport the surgery, it's also important to note, that if you live 24/7 as a f2M, in full-form, You also are NOT a crossdresser....I am NOT a crossdresser, because I live 24/7 as a f2M individual, and at no time do I dress in the Femm-form...

Hope this helped you...

Quote from: LaPapito on August 15, 2011, 03:19:14 AM
Transgender first and formost, is NOT what you own or do NOT own down below-the-belt...

I t is a mind-state of how you feel, from the inside out...

With that being said, here is something you can use, most feel that to be "proportionally correct" they have to go through "total" surgical transformation...because this is what I thought...

But after years of being who I am, I know this to be false...when I look in the mirror, I don't see a female staring back at me, I see who I truly am...a male... trapped, maybe, but I'd like to think that I was given this "host" to face challenges..of which I have successfully adapted and overcame...

Having top surgery meant that my shirts would fit the way I wanted, and needed them to fit, aesthetically pleasing...my pecs are beautiful...but I don't need to "mutilate" my body, and I am talking about f2M...because for some who feel the need to achieve the "full" male status...it is just that mutilation...and it is expensive....however, if you give me a working penis, I'll be the first one in line  ;D

But I don't need a piece of skin to make me feel anymore than I already am...which is a male figure in a female host body....

The choice is yours...aesthetically if you feel the need for surgery to feel "completed" then go fer it....on the other hand, judging a book by it's cover, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good read...it truly IS, whats inside that counts....!

Sooo yeah, You are still f2M, even if you don't sport the surgery, it's also important to note, that if you live 24/7 as a f2M, in full-form, You also are NOT a crossdresser....I am NOT a crossdresser, because I live 24/7 as a f2M individual, and at no time do I dress in the Femm-form...

Hope this helped you...

Though by your definition, one could take crossgender hormones and yet wearing the clothing of their target gender anything less then 24/7 would disqualify them as transgender.  Though a person who identified solely as a "cross dresser" and did so 24/7 could also claim the transgender label without regard to any other aspect of their presentation.

I understand, but no....with TG-ing one is in a "state" if you will 24/7. Their lively hood is that of whatever sex they fill has NOT BEEN Adequately supplied...Our mannerism...Our daily living etc is as a TG-male 34/7....WE DON"T want too, nor DO WE wish too, go back and dawn on female clothing, if you are a TG-male, or male clothing if you are a TG-female

Some feel that Crossdresser, put on the opposite clothing, because it has to do with sexual aesthetics...that might be true, and still there are those that feel, Crossdresser "crossdress" because they harbor some OMG dare I say it "Homosexual" tendency...again that may be true too...I don't know what "lurks" in the minds of those individuals, except what most tell me; that is aesthetically pleasing to most...they enjoy the feel of "Silk" stockings against their legs etc...or they like the power male clothes offer them...etc...and yes some or "closet so-called-homosexuals..." but they are NOT willing to give up their "current" life, to satisfy their so-called fantasy life...so they engage in "role" playing to satisfy their huge appetite...

It's not that way with TG-ers our life is 24/7...again our mannerism etc...WE are willing to make that transformation...because, simple put, WE know who WE are...and we're NOT afraid to "walk" that extra mile of becoming who WE know WE should be....

::) Regan I do hope this is clearer now...Thanks, and as regard to hormones, if you are taking them...you will transform internally, as well as outwardly...sooo you are moving forward, into transformation to whatever form you choose....Crossdresser are not on hormones, @least, not to my knowledge, and live a Dbl-life if you will...NOT to step on anyones toes here ;D

Transgender is a "State" of the mind...WE are/were without a doubt...placed in the wrong form
Crossdressing is an "Aesthetic" state of mind...You Crossdress because IT is pleasing to YOU...IT pleases YOU to wear male or female clothing, and there is a difference...regardless if you are in "drag" 24/7

simply put, if you are a female2male and you wear "panties" like Victoria's secret, under your clothes, regardless if they are the boy ones, and you dress 24/7, chances are YOU are a Crossdresser, but if you wear, "Calvein Klein, Chaps, BVD's etc" under you clothing, and you pack/ bind, chances are, YOU are a TransGender male...with ***Surgery*** being optional, because your "STATE-OF-MIND" is already there...

Quote from: Samson on October 17, 2010, 10:55:40 PM
This is something that I've been trying to figure out for a while. Is it accurate to identify, in my case, as FTM if I don't have any intention of getting surgeries to make myself more like the gender I believe I am? I've been asked how do I identify before, and I'm always at a bit of a loss on how to respond. I know labels aren't everything, but I hate sounding wishy-washy about who I am when asked.

If a T-woman is unfomfortable with her male gentelalia, then she is transsexual, if not, then she is transgender. And vice versa.

 As someone who is not able to afford transitioning because I am disabled, I can tell you that I do consider myself to be a female trapped in a males body. There are many reasons for some that keep them from transitioning ranging from finances, to medical, to fear of rejection. This does not mean that just because one can not transition that the inner struggle ends. I know in my case not being able to transition has deepened my struggle with GID and made it much more complicated to deal with. The thing is with the words m2f/f2m and even the words transsexual, transgender, ect is that they are just labels that define what we are. They do not define who we are. I know some people have to define what they are before they actually start figuring out who they are and what they want. Personally I didn't have to do this because I know who I am. I am a woman trapped in a man's body and I accept that. Don't like it but I accept it and it is a day to day battle with that acceptance because I can not transition. When you are in a situation like mine one has two choices...either accept who you are and what you are or struggle with the torment of depression, anger, thoughts of suicide, ect... because you can't transition for what ever reason.

Being non op is very difficult because after the make up comes off and the breast forms come out there is always that wrong physically gendered person staring back at you in the mirror. And there are many days it is very hard to deal with and accept. For many years I lived in the depression, anger, and thoughts of suicide of it all. But after years of counseling I came to a place of some sort of  acceptance of my situation and of who I am. And although I can't transition I do express myself as the woman I am. I spend 95% of the time in my true gender role (female) and maybe at birth I came out as naked little boy but when I die I will go out expressing my true gender and femininity. Because I have put that in my will. No one can or ever will convince me that I am not female because no one knows me better than I know myself.

So you might try looking at who you are rather than what you are :)...Huggsss...Katrina

I plan on getting a rhinoplasty and a lip augumentation...If I can find a rich man(or my boyfriend) to finance boobies. I'd gladly do that.

But I've opted not to have srs. My issues were always with the dsyphoria of my appearance rather than the actual genitials themselves. People are what they say they are... Identity is a personal issue with many.

Yeah because you still identify as a boy or a girl despite your biological sex

(I couldn't find what are the forum policies regarding reviving old threads, some forums like it, some forums hate it. I was thinking of starting a thread pretty much with this same concept until I found this one)

I was thinking lately, the terms MTF and FTM would be referring strictly to sex/biology: "one is born with female genitalia/hormones but transitions into male" or viceversa... however, would it really refer to gender?  For those people who always identified as the opposite gender, would the term be fitting? How could someone really be an FTM for example (in terms of gender) if they never really felt female in the first place? So maybe that's where the "Trans-man" "trans-woman" terms come into place.

I take it then that MTF and FTM should be used when emphasizing biological transition and the others in regards to gender identity.

We are not real happy about reviving old threads but sometimes it's the best option. The system could be set to auto lock the threads after a set period of time but that setting remains off so the threads can be revived by a non staff member.

The terms apply to somebody who is transitioning or wants to transition. The transition may be a medical transition or a social transition. They are labels that are self identified as gender dysphoria is a self identified condition.

And as usual the non-binary are left out.

Transgender is an umbrella term encompassing MtF, FtM, bi-gender, genderfluid, agender, androgyne, and anyone else who is not cisgender. If your gender isn't the same as your physical body, the traditional male-female binary match between mind and body, then you're transgender.

It was my understanding that the modern use of transsexual is a post-op transgender person of any of the above groups; someone who is fully medically transitioned. But then it depends on which forum you're on as to what definitions people are using.

Quote from: LaPapito on August 15, 2011, 04:19:47 PM
I understand, but no....with TG-ing one is in a "state" if you will 24/7. Their lively hood is that of whatever sex they fill has NOT BEEN Adequately supplied...Our mannerism...Our daily living etc is as a TG-male 34/7....WE DON"T want too, nor DO WE wish too, go back and dawn on female clothing, if you are a TG-male, or male clothing if you are a TG-female

Some feel that Crossdresser, put on the opposite clothing, because it has to do with sexual aesthetics...that might be true, and still there are those that feel, Crossdresser "crossdress" because they harbor some OMG dare I say it "Homosexual" tendency...again that may be true too...I don't know what "lurks" in the minds of those individuals, except what most tell me; that is aesthetically pleasing to most...they enjoy the feel of "Silk" stockings against their legs etc...or they like the power male clothes offer them...etc...and yes some or "closet so-called-homosexuals..." but they are NOT willing to give up their "current" life, to satisfy their so-called fantasy life...so they engage in "role" playing to satisfy their huge appetite...

It's not that way with TG-ers our life is 24/7...again our mannerism etc...WE are willing to make that transformation...because, simple put, WE know who WE are...and we're NOT afraid to "walk" that extra mile of becoming who WE know WE should be....

::) Regan I do hope this is clearer now...Thanks, and as regard to hormones, if you are taking them...you will transform internally, as well as outwardly...sooo you are moving forward, into transformation to whatever form you choose....Crossdresser are not on hormones, @least, not to my knowledge, and live a Dbl-life if you will...NOT to step on anyones toes here ;D

Transgender is a "State" of the mind...WE are/were without a doubt...placed in the wrong form
Crossdressing is an "Aesthetic" state of mind...You Crossdress because IT is pleasing to YOU...IT pleases YOU to wear male or female clothing, and there is a difference...regardless if you are in "drag" 24/7

simply put, if you are a female2male and you wear "panties" like Victoria's secret, under your clothes, regardless if they are the boy ones, and you dress 24/7, chances are YOU are a Crossdresser, but if you wear, "Calvein Klein, Chaps, BVD's etc" under you clothing, and you pack/ bind, chances are, YOU are a TransGender male...with ***Surgery*** being optional, because your "STATE-OF-MIND" is already there...

I feel like some of this is confusing gender identity with gender expression. I believe you can still be transgender but not necessarily wear all the clothes of your target gender all of the time. A trans-woman might wear boxers or not wear a bra and still identify fully as a woman, just like a cis-woman could. A trans-man might wear feminine jewelry or heels and still identify fully as a man, just as a cis-man could. Personally, I believe that identifying as a man or woman or whatever is far deeper than just what clothing you wear.

For me, I still identify as an FTM even though I'm somewhat genderqueer/non-binary and still like some clothing/accessories associated with women. If a cis-man can express himself femininely without being considered a woman, why should this be different for a trans-man?