Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I just need a bit of a rant, because this crap is driving me mad, I'm sorry it's probably going to be really long.

For as long as I can remember I've been depressed and had all sort of social problems, I've begged and pleaded for help and gotten fobbed off. I've been a self harmer

since age 11, nobody in the mental health system has offered me any help. I think the best I've gotten is a mandatory couple of sessions with a school councilor who

asked me some bizarre questions about whether voices in my head were telling me to cut myself and then telling me to basically get over myself when I said there were

no voices.

Of course years and years later, I figured out on my own that it was in fact GID that was screwing with me.

So I did my research and thought ok, this is straight forward...go to GP....ask for a referral to gender therapist....see therapist...get T, ok, simples.

It's been almost 2 years since I first asked a GP for a therapist referral and I still don't have one. I've seen loads of different doctors in 3 different cities and

gotten squat. I have physically handed GP's contact information for nearby gender clinics and therapists and they've promised to call....I wait and wait for a letter

saying I have an appointment, and nothing.

I finally decided to take the private route, forked out a crapload of money, traveled across the country and sorted it out myself.

Throughout all this I have remained calm and fine about the whole situation, I just think to myself that I'm lucky to have a national health system at all.

Then I got pregnant, and SUDDENLY, I have social workers and GP's and therapists coming out of my earholes. My medical records have documented every time I have told a

GP I'm depressed, every call to A&E after my cutting has gotten out of hand, and of course...my GID.

This has deemed me a "danger" to my unborn child, and I am now being forced to see all sorts of shrinks and social workers. They are threatening to take the baby away

so I have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get them to decide I'm fit to raise my own child.

They are up my ass every second of every day and I can barely pick my nose without some sort of health professional somewhere looking at me disapprovingly and jotting

it down in some "reasons to take baby away" notebook.

My social worker knocks on my door at random times to "check if I'm doing ok" when in reality he's just looking for reasons to condemn me. If I happen to be still asleep when he knocks at 9am and I answer the door in my PJ's I get a speech about not looking after myself and heaven forbid if there's any dishes in my sink, I'd understand if I was running a crack den but for christ sake are a few dirty dishes and getting up at noon the end of the world? I'm pregnant, I'm tired, I'll get up and do my dishes when I bloody well feel like it.

I get letters through my door for mandatory psyciatric assesments and at first I thought AWESOME, I finally get to talk to a shrink about how I feel. Not so awesome, the woman they make me see has no clue about GID and goes on and on at me about "doing what's best for the child" and encouraging me to stop "pretending to be a man" - it all goes in the "reasons to take away the baby" notebook and I get chewed out by my social worker and midwife over crap I've said in the therapy sessions.

I ask them why they are doing this to me and they reply with "we're just making sure you are getting the support you need"

SUPPORT? Don't talk to me about support, this is not support, this is unfair judgement and I am forced to hide who I am in order to be able to keep my baby. They are giving me the exact opposite of support and causing me all sorts of stress and anxiety.

It's made worse by the fact I'm having a girl. I'm hearing all sorts of rubbish about "making the child like me" - as if I chose to have GID, and second of all, would wish it upon my daughter too.

I pray to the gods she really is a girl but I'm not going to influence anything either way. Most of the clothes I've bought for her and they way I've decorated the nursery are fairly neutral and they are taking this as me completely rejecting any notion of femininity for her. If she CHOOSES to be a super girly girl then that's fine by me, but I don't want to vomit pink frillyness all over her just because she's a girl. Why doesn't anybody get this? Drives me NUTS.

Ok rant over *deep breath*

Jeatyn

I know this so well. These people seem to have loads of time for those that fit into their neat little categories.

I do hope you can keep your cool with these people. They are really just covering their backs.

I recall your thread, Holy crap. I'm pregnant. If you have a specific social worker assigned to you, then hopefully you can build some sort of relationship with them.

I must say, I think the queston about imposing your views on your daughter is inappropriate.

Has the father shown any interest at all yet?

I would be pissed too --- but like it was said ... keep your cool or they will use it against you.

Is there a way you can get a legal advocate?

Look at it from their point of view, and to them you appear like a mentally-disturbed adult with gender issues and depression. You are not stable or a normal functioning adult, and society sees this as a horrible position to place a child into the hands into.

From my life experience people treat people who cannot function as "hopeless" cases.

If you are seriously going to raise this child, realize this, your life is now not about you at all. It's about your child now, and to raise him/her for the next 18 years. Your child is your world now. Make sure you get your financial situation cleared, make your Gender problems your problems to deal with later, get it straight that you will raise this child to be a happy functioning person.

I believe if they see that you are handling this issue with maturity and successfulness they will leave you alone. I say raise your child as you see fit, but do it well in the norms of societies.

Is there a dad? Where is the dad? You two should be together if at all possible.

Quote from: Megan on October 19, 2010, 02:28:28 PM
Look at it from their point of view, and to them you appear like a mentally-disturbed adult with gender issues and depression. You are not stable or a normal functioning adult, and society sees this as a horrible position to place a child into the hands into.

From my life experience people treat people who cannot function as "hopeless" cases.

If you are seriously going to raise this child, realize this, your life is now not about you at all. It's about your child now, and to raise him/her for the next 18 years. Your child is your world now. Make sure you get your financial situation cleared, make your Gender problems your problems to deal with later, get it straight that you will raise this child to be a happy functioning person.

I believe if they see that you are handling this issue with maturity and successfulness they will leave you alone. I say raise your child as you see fit, but do it well in the norms of societies.

Is there a dad? Where is the dad? You two should be together if at all possible.

I'd like to register my disagreement with pretty much everything in this post.

(1) You need to sort out your GID as soon as it's possible and safe, so that you can focus on being a good dad. Putting it off till later just means more years of your kid having an inexplicably depressed, dysphoric, navel-gazing parent.

(2) You should absolutely not be with the other dad unless you two have a functional relationship that could survive on its own merits. "Staying together for the kid" is bad - doing it from birth is absolutely terrible, not least because it gets in the way of you developing an actual functioning relationship with someone else who could actually be a co-parent for this kid.

(3) The very best thing a parent can do for their child is to take care of themselves. Self-sacrifice, putting off your own needs and goals, just sets you up for a whole lot of bad stuff in the long run. Babies don't care if their caregiver sprouts facial hair. Preteen girls do. Babies don't care if their parent is a broke student or entry-level worker or living on social assistance while getting their stuff together. Teenage girls definitely do.

(4) Social workers have no business taking kids away, or threatening, in situations where the kid is warm and safe and housed and fed and not abused. Given that meeting those standards is a best-case scenario for the foster care system, there's simply no justification for preferring foster care over a non-abusive, attentive, loving parent with depression and GID.

I am a perfectly functioning adult, having GID doesn't make me a maniac who isn't fit to live in society. Since sorting out my GID everything has been pretty much peachy and if this system had worked in the first place I would have been over my depression and other issues YEEEEARS before now.

The father did a runner and wants nothing to do with me or the baby, I don't believe in "staying together for the kids" anyway, if the parents are unhappy, that's going to resonate over to the child.

I know for a fact I'm going to be a bloody good parent - that is if they give me the chance. I'm jumping through their silly hoops and trying not to lose my rag at them so I get this chance.

My social worker was specifically assigned to me because he apparently did his dissertation on trans people and has experience in the field. However this doesn't seem to make him sensitive to my GID and what it means in the slightest. If he understood transsexuality he wouldn't be so concerned with me pushing my "trans identity" on to my daughter surely.

I'd like to read that guy's dissertation - it probly reads like the Monty Python(?) I'm a Lumberjack sketch.

*hugs*  I really don't have an advice, Jeatyn.  But I really really hope things get better for you and the people realize you'll make a lovely father. *hugs again*

Quote from: Megan on October 19, 2010, 02:28:28 PM
Look at it from their point of view, and to them you appear like a mentally-disturbed adult with gender issues and depression. You are not stable or a normal functioning adult, and society sees this as a horrible position to place a child into the hands into.

From my life experience people treat people who cannot function as "hopeless" cases.
[...]
I believe if they see that you are handling this issue with maturity and successfulness they will leave you alone. I say raise your child as you see fit, but do it well in the norms of societies.

Is there a dad? Where is the dad? You two should be together if at all possible.

i'm not sure how it is in other countries, but round here, they won't leave simply leave you alone once they got you on their radar. "hopeless case", you named it....

however, when they feel the need to help you now, they should be obliged to do it in a manner that doesn't heap anymore unrest to the situation, hence treat you in a appropriate manner.

Sorry, Megan, I have to echo what Kyril said.

Jeatyn, what they are doing (and what they have been doing) is so wrong on so many levels. You already know that.

You also know that they have it in for you, and you know that you have to do your best to make sure that you don't lose your baby to this lunatic system. Every time you bring up this topic, I wonder, "Aren't there advocates for this sort of thing? Isn't there SOMEone who can and will help him?" But I imagine you did your best to find that support--and came up empty-handed.

You seem to be a pretty level-headed bloke. Just keep it up, buddy. And rant all you like. If it will help you to keep your cool--and your kid--I'll read it.

Rant and rave all you want, Jeatyn.  The fing baby snatchers are so much BS.  I hate social workers who think they are so much better than the parents.  Do you do drugs?  Are you out there drinking?  Are you working in a meth lab?

They would take children from every parent, if it was based on some psych problem.  They need to make sure you have what you need for you.   The happier you are the better it is for the baby.  Even if you went through transition all the way, the baby would grow up to be a health happy little girl, who is her daddies little princess.

Sorry Megen, but this is wrong on some many levels.  Sounds like a page out of the anti-GLBT rule book.

QuoteIs there a dad? Where is the dad? You two should be together if at all possible.

Children do not need but one parent, who loves them.  Having two parents is nice but it is unrealistic.  Should we take all those children away who have had a parent died?  No.  They will grow up just fine.

Play their silly little games, Jeatyn.  And then just love and care for your little daughter.  You will be a great Dad.

I can understand what Megan's getting at, though I don't really agree.

I'm pretty sure Jeatyn has everything that is needed to be an excellent parent.

I also understand the negativity many have toward social workers.

I've known quite a few in my time to be honest. They have a tricky number. If they make a mistake and the press get wind of it, all hell breaks loose. Baby P was tragic. But that was an isolated case among many similar. The social workers will do their best.

I do know their priority is always to keep families together. Sadly, they also have to dance to the tune of the Drs. as the Cleveland case demonstrated, not to mention Orkney.

Jeatyn, I do hope you will take my suggestion of trying to build a relationship with your principal social worker, or, failing that, one other.

Just hang in there. My mother was in and out of the mental health system while I was growing up for depression and other issues. I was never once taken away from her, even after she tried and threatened to kill herself on several occasions.
She was a solo mum and I turned out fine, alot more accepting and understanding than people generally are as a result I'd say.

Quote from: spacial on October 19, 2010, 07:08:35 PM

I also understand the negativity many have toward social workers.

I've known quite a few in my time to be honest. They have a tricky number. If they make a mistake and the press get wind of it, all hell breaks loose. Baby P was tragic. But that was an isolated case among many similar. The social workers will do their best.

I do know their priority is always to keep families together. Sadly, they also have to dance to the tune of the Drs. as the Cleveland case demonstrated, not to mention Orkney.

I say BS to the bolded part. Personal experience says all social workers should be shot on sight. My experience was much as Jeatyn describes.

I'm sorry Jeatyn :( Man that is nuts. My ex's mother was a drug addict/alcoholic who got charges for abusing her many times plus she sold my ex's Christmas presents from others for drug money and social workers never kept her away so that is bull. Your trans, you're going through what you need to in order to be happy so in my opinion that isn't their business. I hope things work out for you man, you're gonna be a great father. Just keep your chin up. You're right, they are wrong. I'm trans and I raised my daughter who wasn't even biologically mine for 6 months (wish I was still in her life but that's another story) point being I had no problems, people on the street didn't start trouble or whatever, and I was just the same as any other dad just like you will be so the social workers need to stop with their lies. I'm sorry man, good luck with it all.  :-\

@ Jeatyn, you'll make a wonderful parent and don't let anyone tell you different. Some dirty dishes in the sink do not make a bad parent and wearing pj's at 9 in the morning??  What the hell?! Everyone does including them I bet!!!  They're just being anal.  ::)

I can tell you are excited about the upcoming birth of baby daughter. Everyone does neutral colours now just in case anyway. :)

QuoteI do know their priority is always to keep families together.

Quote from: LordKAT on October 20, 2010, 12:30:07 AM
I say BS to the bolded part. Personal experience says all social workers should be shot on sight. My experience was much as Jeatyn describes.

I agree, in theory it should be so but a case worker who has a one-eyed view on what makes a 'normal' family, well we know what happens if you don't fit the mould.

OK, let me put this another way.

These social workers have enormous power. They can split a family. They can incarcerate people, almost indefinately, their word will be taken first in a court.

Now, do you think the best thing to do, in these circumstances, is to antogonise these people, or try to make friends with one of them?

Incidently, I was reluctant to be quite so blunt. Jeatyn is pregnant. There is ample evidence to show that the emotiona state of a pregnant mother can have an effect upon the cource of the pregancy.

Thanks for the support guys, it's nice to be able to vent it at least.

Spacial I do know where you're coming from, it bugs the crap out of me but I'm trying my best to play nice and jump through any and all of their hoops - the main thing is that I get to keep my baby. Even if I know I'm right and they're wrong it's them who have all the power. Fighting it is just going to make it worse, usually I'm all for "sticking it to the man" but in this scenario I'm being very well behaved because the stakes are so high.

He came round this morning and scheduled an appointment for me and all my family (including ones who live a good 3 hour drive away, I might add) to have an official meeting to draw up some statements about the care of the child and sign it. I am literally having to sign a contract....that promises I'm going to look after my baby. How absolutely ridiculous.

You seem to have a pretty good handle on the situation Jeatyn.

Take care and good luck doesn't really do justice to the wishes I'm sending.

If it means anything I know the place you're in. Been near there.

Quote from: Jeatyn on October 20, 2010, 11:22:30 AM
I am literally having to sign a contract....that promises I'm going to look after my baby. How absolutely ridiculous.

Good lord, I just about choked when I read this.

Really? I mean, seriously, REALLY? A FREAKING CONTRACT?

These people have some serious bug up their butts.

Hang in there, buddy.

first I've ever heard about anyone signing a contract to agree to look after baby properly. 
I wonder if this is a new idea post Baby P?

Quote from: lilacwoman on October 20, 2010, 04:02:09 PM
first I've ever heard about anyone signing a contract to agree to look after baby properly. 
I wonder if this is a new idea post Baby P?

no, it's a process that's been around for a while. It's complicated to rationalise. It has some positive uses for some situations.

But it is one of those factors that are very difficult to get around. The best thing is to go along with it.

Well, an update.

I am now being taken to court for this rubbish and the social want one of three outcomes to happen after the hearing:

1: I have a family member with me 24/7 and unannounced spot checks from a social worker. When I say 24/7 I mean literally 24/7, we asked and apparently leaving me on my own with the baby for 10 minutes while they nip to the shops is unacceptable.

2: I move to a sort of safe house with the baby where I will be watched over

3: The baby is taken in to foster care


I'm meeting with a lawyer tomorrow, after looking at the case they seem pretty confident that I can get these idiots off my back because I really haven't done anything to warrant this kind of heavy handed treatment. Fingers crossed

Good luck with the lawyer! I think that's the best thing you can do.

This all sounds so awful. Especially option 1 is ridiculous, I mean, won't they allow that family member to even take a shower or whatever?

And me seems there is a lot of transphobia going on here.

Also shows that just because someone is a "specialist" in the field of transsexuality doesn't mean they treat trans people with the respect any human being deserves.

I pray for you and your baby.

Hi Jeatyn
you case gets more crazy.

I hope that lawyer get some good action for you.

I hope the lawyer will prevail.  What the "Child Snatchers" want is totally unacceptable.  She will be more loved and protected by living with her father, who gave her birth.


Hugs to you dear brother and loves to my niece.

Aunt Janet.  :D

That's insanity! *hugs* I hope the lawyer can help you work out some sense with those stupid people. I wish you and your kiddo the best when she/he is born. Sorry don't remember if you said the baby is a boy or a girl. Good luck with everything man.

Jeatyn

Thank you for keeping us informed. This is sounding quite serious really. Best of luck with the lawyers. That's really all you can do now.

I really hope you will continue to keep us up to dat on what happens next my love.

Best wishes, always.

Quite a few years ago i had dealings with a similar situation. My partners brother was living with a girl who subsequently fell pregnant. Social services wanted to take her baby away as soon as it was born- after a lot of wrangling myself and my partner ended up as the baby's carers. The mother was never supposed to be alone with the baby although the father could be. The mother had to go to a supervised centre to prove she could look after a child. Although this is many years ago and i am no longer in contact with any of them i know that despite all of the social workers protestations that the child should never be allowed to live with its family that by the time she was two they were all living together. Hopefully someone will see common sense with your case as well and all will turn out for the best, even if you have to jump through a few hoops first. Sometimes i think the authorities just like reminding us common folk that they have all the power.

I hope your meeting with the lawyer went well, Jeatyn.

I've been thinking about it too.

Hopefully Jeatyn will tell us as soon as there's anything to tell.

Not all that much to tell until the hearing on the 17th. The meeting with the lawyer was quite discouraging though :-\ she just basically told me to do whatever the social services say, play nice and blah blah. then she spent a good half hour telling me what exactly happens when I get put into the safe-house I mentioned....like she thought this was going to be the best outcome.

To be frank Jeatyn, it's not that it's the best option, it's just that there isn't much that can be done.

I tend to think the lawyer is telling you to just go with the flow.

You know something, I have a feeling it's going to be a lot easier than you might be imagining. But only of you don't fight against it.

I've been told that it could be around 6 months for the 24 hour surveillance thing. If this happens I'm going to lose my apartment because of the benefits I'm on....they won't pay the rent on a place I'm not living. If they do this to me it's going to screw everything up.

My family is willing to help me if it comes down to it but it depends on the time period, they have lives and jobs and kids of their own. I'll be giving birth right next to Christmas too so I can't expect my sister to come and babysit me 24/7 while her own kids sit at home opening presents by themselves.

I don't think these social workers understand how much stress it'll put me under to be put in a safehouse with a bunch of women and kids. Something like that may actually cause me to break down, whereas I'd be fine in my own territory with privacy. Not to mention the kind of people who usually get put in these places are the ones with drug/alcohol problems or severe disorders that mean they don't do very well in normal society. It baffles me that they would choose this for me and my daughter over my own apartment where I have a beautiful nursery all set up for her.

I hate to whine...I'm sorry guys, feeling hormonal today.

I think that the "Child Snatchers" are prepared to get new housing for you and the baby.  As they are the ones who are causing the lose of your apartment.  Ether that or they can move a social worker in to your place, so they lose their apartment.

And all of this because some moron is being a jerk.  You will be a great Dad ( Mom in their narrow world ).  She will grow up as being a very open-minded, loving young lady, who know just how to get Daddy to get her what see wants.  ;D

If I may, Jeatyn, can I suggest you make some preparations to store your stuff.

With respect, babies have a habit of turning up at awkward times. If you can make the arrangements now, that is one less thing to worry about.

Have you been getting on with your midwife OK?

I am so very sorry that this is happening. But as said, try to go with the flow.

OMG.  Unbelievable.  I wish there was something I could do to help.  How long do they want you to be in the safehouse?  I'm leary of any institutionalized setting (having seen the inside of a few) but still better than option C.  I don't guess they're considering the stress this is putting on you and therefor the baby right now.  What morons.

Be careful!!

I have seen the same ploy used against you. After you  lose your apartment and the kid is born, they take her because you do not have an adequate place to raise her. You lose your aid and can't get a place because you don't have your kid with you. You get a job to get a place and you aren't capable of providing adequate and/or quality of care.

It is a merry go round and all in their favor.

I can understand your concerns kat. However, there is public housing to go to. Not much, but it's a start.

I hope Jeatyn can meet each of the challenges ahead intelegently and thinking.

I also hope she will tell us all how she is getting on and what it's all like.

Public housing does not address the need to provide for a child that is not with you. nor is it available to all at anytime.

been there, done that.

I do understand LordKat. I hope my response didn't appear glib.

But for now, Jeatyn and the rest of us, will just need to meet each challange as it comes along.

I do hope Jeatyn will continue to tell us how things are progressing and talk about problems. I and I know you and others will be here for him.

spacial - pretty sure Jeatyn prefers male pronouns

My sincere apologies. Yes, he does. I will correct the lat post. I am so very sorry jeatyn. I'm thinking of pregnancy. But that's no excuse for such thoughtlessness.

heh no problem Spacial, I confuse even myself these days.

As for my midwife, I can tell she doesn't like me. She was actually the one who called social services on me in the first place. For no reason whatsoever as far as I can tell. She always acts really odd around me and it makes me really uncomfortable. She talks to me like you would a scared child. "Are you ok?" - and then gives me a creepy smile and a "knowing" look when I give her a cheerful "Yeah I'm fine thanks!" then ensues a good few minutes of awkward silence with her looking at me "sympathetically"

She also keeps trying to push me in to mother and baby groups, every time I see her she gives me the same bloody leaflets. I tell her I wouldn't feel comfortable in these places because of my odd situation to which she responds "nobody needs to know about your gender issues! you'll just be like any normal mother!" ::)

She also won't shut up about breastfeeding, I've been given the same breastfeeding DVD no less than 5 times. I feel like I need to get a mega-phone and scream into her ear that I have a breastpump, give me information about this, I have no idea how to use it. The kid is getting nowhere near my chest but she will still be getting the milk, I fail to see what the problem is here.

When I ask her about crap I actually need to know about, like exactly what I will need to pack in my hospital bag....and what I need to do for a birth plan. She waves me off saying it's too early, and that I can look it up online if I really want to.

These people infuriate me >:(

Think I know the type you mean Jeatyn. Many of these types have lost their perspective, sadly.

This is an NHS site which will suggest some things you will need in your bag.

http://www.nhs.uk/Planners/pregnancycareplanner/pages/Packforbirth.aspx (http://www.nhs.uk/Planners/pregnancycareplanner/pages/Packforbirth.aspx)

If I may suggest, don't forget books and the like.

Man, I'm sorry that your midwife isn't accepting. The breastfeeding thing though doesn't surprise me. They told my ex girlfriend she NEEDED to at least 50 times every doctors visit when she said she wouldn't (she had to go back on her bipolar and anxiety meds as soon as she gave birth so she couldn't). At least you are going to do the pump though my daughter was just as healthy on her formula. Your brave man, I could never handle being pregnant. You don't have to go to those groups if you aren't comfortable with it.

Looking it all up online is a great idea. Hospitals will usually supply the babies first needs as far as formula and diapers so mostly just focus on things for you but if you know where you will be giving birth you could always ask them. My ex had a pillow that made her more comfortable so that went in the bag and a pair of pajama pants for her to wear out of the hospital as well as a book and some other things because she ended up having to have labor induced which meant a day of waiting around for her water to break. Spacial listed a good link and as far as other stuff if there is anything else that you feel like you need always best to bring it if you don't have someone who can run back for it.

Sorry for the rant. Best of wishes.

It's ridiculous man, I hate how they make people feel like demons for not wanting to/being unable to breastfeed. All the baby books and information I read go on and on and on about breastfeeding and how to do it and blah blah blah.....then I expect to see a "and for those of you using a pump/using formula...." but there never is. As if breastfeeding is the ONLY option and you're a moron for considering anything else.

My hospital bag I swear has too much stuff in it, I wouldn't pack this much for a weekend away. Then I have a separate one for my sister to come back and pick up in case I need to stay in hospital for some reason.

Jeatyn.

If it's of any consolation, most mothers don't breastfeed. Inspite of the rhetoric. But, believe it or not, it's actually illegal to promote alternatives.

Added to that, many midwives are incredably arrogant and self rightious. I recall, when I was doing my midwifery placement, when I was nursing, having a conversation with a midwife.

You may be aware that, midwives start as RGNs, then take a post grad course to become midwives. There are a number of other specialists like this as well in nursing.

Anyway, this midwife contended that they were more than mear nurses, because they can prescribe pethidine.

The reality is, they can choose to administer pethadine, in certain circumstances in much the same way as I, as a mental nurse, could choose to administer a number of drugs as well.

As frustrating as it is, to be quite frank, it's an ordeal every mother has to go through.

As a very old female Dr once said, to a group of complaining mothers, you got it in there, now it needs to come out.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having to jump through hoops like this, but it is possible that, once things calm down and they realize you and your daughter are fine, you will be able to use the people they are making you see for actually useful reasons.  I just hope that they figure this out sooner rather than later.  Nobody needs this kind of stress.  As a side note, you're going to be a fantastic dad, and I get the feeling that your daughter is going to be spoiled rotten.  :P

Jeatyn: When I was in the hospital to give birth they gave everyone a crash parenting course and taught them how to pump before leaving.  In fact, in my hospital they expected everyone to pump because "milk won't come in without it".

Even if they don't do this at your hospital, they're pretty easy to get the hang of so don't worry.  There might even be YouTube videos or something.

Well the latest news is the following:

1: The social worker blatantly refuses to show me the reports that he's written about me, I can see them the morning of the meeting just before we go in - this means I cannot pre-prepare any sort of statement, because I'm not entirely sure what his reasons are for wanting to take the child. I checked and legally I can see the reports if I put it in writing that I want them and wait 30 days blah blah. Not enough time -_-

2: The solicitor I got is apparently now on holiday for the next two weeks, how bloody helpful

Jeez. Your solicitor is on holiday...isn't your court date next week? What the heck are you going to do?

It's on wednesday, I'm wondering what a solicitor could even do....seeing as I don't know what the problem is specifically, I can't ask for advice on anything.

This is a f***ed up situation. You can't give thirty days' notice that you need the reports, you can't very well delay any of this--even if you had the power to (which I doubt), the baby is due soon, so the PTBs want to get all of this resolved before that time. Catch-22.

Whom do you have to support you through this, Jeatyn? I mean IRL. Who is helping you? Who can vouch for you in court? Anyone?

I have my two sisters, one of whom is actually a foster carer so she knows her stuff. This is making her furious because she can't see any reason for this to be happening to me. Unfortunately she lives in a different county so she doesn't have any pull with this particular branch.

I just received the report written about me

It turns out this did in fact all start because I'm trans. The midwife rang social services after her very first meeting with me to report that she was concerned that I wouldn't cope with being pregnant and having a child because I identify as male. Also apparently me telling them that I plan to resume transition and start hormones soon after the birth raises concerns that I will be putting myself before the baby and not focusing on her needs.

There's a lot in there about my mother and how she failed as a parent, I fail to see how this is relevant, especially considering she died 2 years ago.

The rest of it is about "mental health issues" - such as depression, social anxiety disorder, and unstable personality disorder. The first two I've never been diagnosed with (having GID obviously gives me traits of said disorders but they aren't a whole separate entity) and the third is a "diagnosis" I received from a psychiatrist they forced me to see a few months ago, and she made this diagnosis after a single 45 minute session with me.

Waiting till tomorrow, after your meeting Jeatyn. Doubt you'll be on before then.

You can tell us all how it went.

Thinking about you till then.

Knowing all of that information I do not see how they have a case against you. I hope things go well for you man. Good luck

Some of us will be pacing till we here why the idiot system is going to do.

 :-\ Seriously?
At least we know they have no good case against you.  I'm sure it will go well, but I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you anyways.  Keep us posted.

Just in case you log on in time to see this: "unstable personality disorder" doesn't exist. It's not in the DSM, there are no diagnostic criteria for it, it's just some BS that shrink made up. If you point that out you may be able to get everything the psychiatrist said thrown out.

Well done, Kyril. I hope Jeatyn sees this. Maybe he should take along a copy of the DSM as proof. (If nothing else, he can whack some idiots over the head with it. That sucker is pretty big.)

I wonder if the DSM exists merely to make shrinks feel important.

Jeatyn, I'm hoping things go well for you.

Yes. We do hope it goes well for you. Sorry you have to put up with the over sized egos of the medical group. I have so many stories of  doctors so full of their own uneducated opinions that I would bore you to tears. I had my third child at home assisted by Erocse. I did not go to the doctor once. There was a medical condition at birth I thought she should go to the hospital for. They never addressed it. They put me to sleep and said I could not leave until my baby peed enough to pass a drug test. Well I peed enough. I never did drugs so I knew my test had to pass and my daughter could not fail. We were at the hospital from 10:00 am to 4:00 am the next morning because they would not let us have our baby and go home. They wanted me to stay longer so they could charge more. They even threatened calling the Child Protection Services. It was rediculous, I am still angry.
This is just one story of thier over blown egotistical processes.
Perhaps a different midwife.........
I am very sorry this is happening to you. We are thinking of you and wish you the best.

Isn't the DSM an american thing? I did actually have trouble finding it when I was googling for it, it appears to be some rubbish side-diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

Quote from: Jeatyn on November 17, 2010, 04:11:31 AM
Isn't the DSM an american thing?

for the most part yes. ICD is used almost everywhere else
(for everyone elses ref, the code listing http://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/DSM-IV_Codes (http://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/DSM-IV_Codes) )

starting hormones again soon after birth and providing baby with milk via a breast pump means baby will be getting wrong mix of hormones?
that's the last thing you would want to wish upon a new baby.

Apart from that they all think that any resistance to their ideas is due to the earlier shrink reports so is there any way you can ask for arbitration or a fresh view of you from an unbiased shrink?

I shall be finishing nursing before I start hormones, by "as soon as possible" I mean some time next year when my body is ready.

I was forced to see another psychiatrist a few days ago and this one said I seemed fine and he had no concerns. They don't seem to be listening to this particular shrink, only the first one.

I have lawyers working on my case of one shrink delaying my transition despite the evidence of three others.

The DSM is, essentially, a manual for insurance companies to decree what they will cover. I appreciate it is used extensively by American and other medics.

Here, especially in psychiatry, diagnoses tend to be more descriptive rather than definitive. Especially in the last 40 or so years.

Unstable personality disorder simply describes some elements of difficulities that Jeatyn, for example, is having, resolving his personality with his environment. A fromal title is Neurosis.

Attempting to argue with a Dr is likely to cause many more problems. That is the last thing to do.

The best approach is to accept these things but assure that you understand your problems and area actively working to find resolutions with the kind assistance of your Dr, for who you have loads of respect.

Show deference, maintain dignity.

This, like all of these situation, is just power play.

Quote from: Jeatyn on November 17, 2010, 04:11:31 AM
Isn't the DSM an american thing? I did actually have trouble finding it when I was googling for it, it appears to be some rubbish side-diagnosis of borderline personality disorder.

Ah, yes. >smacks self< I forgot about that.

Well, I lost...the baby is now under child protection under the basis of neglect.

I'll be going back in a week to get the exact details of what this means, they are pushing for 24 hour surveillance and a huge mess of other things for an unknown period of time.

They ignored the report from the psych who said I was fine, ignored the report from the midwife saying I'm fine; and have put massive weight on the other psych. Her report was read out and there's a lot of things in there that were a complete fabrication and a lot of discrepancies, when I disputed them, I was made out to be a liar and backtracking for the purpose of the meeting. Also this apparent professional states at the beginning of the report that I identify as male and have GID....before proceeding to refer to me with female pronouns throughout the whole thing.

The chairperson appeared to err in favour of the child protection purely based on the fact that they don't understand trans people and say that the hormones, birth, lactating, etc, could send me off the deep end and they're worried I'm putting my transition and my own needs before the needs of the child. So I need monitoring 24/7 incase I flip out.

I don't believe this crap, I really don't.

That is total bull->-bleeped-<-.   The damn child snatchers.  Well prove them wrong, Jeatyn.  To is more important to show those bastards that they were wrong.  You willl make a great parent, regardless of being trans.

What?!  I can't believe that.  Is there a way to have another person look at your case? 

I don't have a clue. I stated that loads of transguys have kids and have been fine and the reply was "well we've never dealt with any trans people before" - how is that my problem? Drives me nuts.

Show the bastards how a real Transparent is.  So that some other poor parent does not face this nightmare.

This made me tear up.

I sure hope that whatever social worker is on your case realizes the silliness of this soon enough.

I'm so sorry man :( Those ignorant jackasses. Like Seven said, you would really think if they've never dealt with a transperson then they wouldn't have any reason to worry about a problem since there never has been one.

You're going to be a great father. Those people are stupid but don't let them get you down. When you hold your child in your arms for the first time it will be worth the struggle you will have to go through.  I just don't see how they are able to get away with this...

How utterly horrible.  I don't have the words :(

It's a pity they can't see common sense, but apparently the word of one bad psychiatrist can override the word of several clear-minded people.  In a decent society that would be the opposite.  I wish you the best of luck Jeatyn, I don't really know the process well enough to understand what is going to happen but I'll be sending positive waves in your direction.

Quote from: Seven on November 17, 2010, 04:39:11 PM
It's because the UK is a police state operating under the guise of a nanny state.

I'm, afraid I have to agree with this.

We have a vast army of state employees under the guise of psychiatrists, nurses and social workers, interfering in almost every aspect of our lives. Always claiming to be protecting the innocent.

The problem in these cases is that the average public will simply say, 'There must be more too it. They wouldn't do that if there weren't a pretty good reason.'

For their part, these services never defend themselves. So there is never a counter, only the claims of those affected.

I had my own life shattered by these people, though my circumstances, by comparison, weren't anything like as horrendous as they are for Jeatyn. But each county has its own 'welfare' departments. How they behave depends upon who they employ. So the problems are not consistant throughout the country. The immunity from any direct redress is.

I have sent Jeatyn a number of links to various places he can approach for help. At the very least, he can make sure his case is widely known.

I do hope he will make as much use of these as possible. Contacting MPs may seem futile, but can produce results sometimes.

It's a sad reality that in this country, the only way to get anything done is to get someone in a prominant position to take your side.

I'm sorry, Jeatyn. Words fail me.

Thanks, Spacial, for sending him info. I have been reading about Jeatyn's hearing in a sort of helpless rage, wondering what could be done--especially since I'm over here in the U.S. and don't know anything about U.K. systems and bureaucracies. Maybe he can make some headway with the resources you sent. Or maybe he'll just keep his head down and weather the storm.

It is terrible to read how poorly Jeatyn is being treated. I have to agree with Arch that we do appreciate the assistance Spacial has offered. I hope all of this comes to pass in your favor Jeatyn.
I hope your labor is swift and safe. We are thinking of you and wishing you well.
~Hugs~

I'm really sorry that happend and i'm kinda shocked, I didn't actually think that it would turn out like this.

I wish I could do something but I know nothing of the system but I do hope that things start going your way soon.

I am fighting, not taking it laying down because it's ridiculous, I just hope I can get some people on my side because if I fight and have no advocates it could backfire horribly. I never expected it to go this far at all. I've been on the phone all morning trying to contact various people who are involved to get copies of all their reports on me so I can get a solicitor. My one regret through all of this is that I assumed these people knew what they were doing, I should have been making my own reports and records because there's so many things that have come out that are a complete lie. Things like "heavy alcohol abuse" - I never drink, maybe 3 times a year at best I will have a few pints. It's all my word against theirs, and of course, the powers that be tend to believe the professionals over the crazy pregnant man.

Thank you very much for the links Spacial :)

The good thing about that is that, if you can get proof for your side, you may be able to show just how completely wrong they are to whomever is handling your case.  Maybe then they'll toss out all the other stupid stuff.

Quote from: Seven on November 18, 2010, 07:03:36 AM
Once again I'm only familiar with the procedure in Scotland, but here you're allowed to bring a friend or relative with you to the hearing. It might be helpful to have someone else who's obviously not dangerous with you vouching for just how ridiculous these allegations are, in the absence of any tangible proof (as in, unless you have any drunk and disorderly records, it's your word against theirs, and a friend confirming that you're not a dangerous alcoholic can't hurt in that scenario).

I had my two sisters with me and it was made out as if they were lying too :-\

Quote from: Jeatyn on November 18, 2010, 07:59:21 AM
I had my two sisters with me and it was made out as if they were lying too :-\

*^&^%%$!!!

WTF??!!

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Someone needs to take these a-holes down a notch.

That rather stunned me as well Arch. At least, Jeatyn now has others to back her claims.

But this entire matter is so stunning. I just wish there was something more, any of us could do.

Jeatyn, sorry i wasnt online to add my support while your case was being heard but really can't believe the way it went. Keep fighting and show them what a good dad you are. Even if you have to fight within their constrictions at the end of the day when they've made up a lot of lies to swing the verdict their way lies can always be disproved. Unfortunately the powers that be know that most people havent got access to the kind of funds needed to appeal but i really hope that things get sorted

Leave the country before the baby is born.

I agree with lordkat I really wish there was a way that you could :(

I've been thinking about this and wondering... what if you get the media involved?

I'm sure that there are a few liberal newspapers that would publish this situation.  And if there are newspaper articles it would be a lit easier for bloggers to get behind you as well.  What we need is a public outcry!

I've had some additional thoughts: Is there a place that people from this forum can send emails or letters about this? Perhaps petitioning to re-look the case?

Quote from: SnailPace on November 26, 2010, 07:26:37 AM
I've been thinking about this and wondering... what if you get the media involved?

I'm sure that there are a few liberal newspapers that would publish this situation.  And if there are newspaper articles it would be a lit easier for bloggers to get behind you as well.  What we need is a public outcry!

I've had some additional thoughts: Is there a place that people from this forum can send emails or letters about this? Perhaps petitioning to re-look the case?

If it is anything at all like it is in the USA, that is no use. I am serious when I say leave the country. The likelyhood of you getting your child back with you are slim to none.

I'd also say,
get liberal media attention or leave the country. Very sorry for the results!

Many people who this happens to go to the media, social services simply refuse to comment either way and carry on with their proceedings as normal. I can't leave the country, I have no money and nowhere to go. I've been told emergency proceedings to lift the child will start if I so much as leave this city, never mind country =/

Even if I end up having to put my daughter in to private foster care with my sister and move in with her I'm going to keep this baby around me.

So is there no way at all to have your case looked at by another person? 

I can appeal the case but my problem now is time. I could be going in to labour any day now and if things aren't sorted when that happens they can file emergency proceedings and take her off me straight from the labour ward. Especially considering it's near christmas, my appeal wouldn't be looked at until way too late. I am best off fighting the current case.

It there anything we can do?  Write letters, make phone calls.  This is so not fair.

You mentioned having your sister being her official guardian.  Would it be possible to get that set up before she's born?  I can't imagine what it would be like to have your daughter taken away for you.  I'm praying for you man.

This is horrible man I'm so so sorry. Like Janet said if there is anything we can do let us know. There are many people on here who would and I know quite a few people who would write letters stating that a trans man can take care of kids just as well as non trans people. If you want I can share your case with a transmale friend of mine who works on a lot of trans legal issues. Do you mind me giving him the link and seeing if he can help at all? As Lee said maybe your sister could adopt your daughter until she gets a little older and then sign custody back to you in time?

I don't want to hand over my daughter to my sister unless I absolutely have to. It's complicated with her already being an official foster carer. If this case goes through I will no longer be allowed inside my sisters house because I would be deemed a danger to the foster kids she takes care of. So she would have to move out in to a new place with me until it was all sorted and leave her husband to take care of the other kids.

I have no idea who you guys would write to, I'm just waiting for reports to come through at the minute and once I have everything together I can make another appointment with my lawyer to see exactly what can be done.

Quote from: Jeatyn on November 27, 2010, 01:44:02 PM
If this case goes through I will no longer be allowed inside my sisters house because I would be deemed a danger to the foster kids she takes care of.

Now that is just ridiculous. 

This case is undoubtedly one of the biggest crocks I've ever seen. I'm just hoping for the best.

I hope your labor is easy and quick, Jeatyn.

Yes. We are all very sorry this is happening. You are in our thoughts and we are hoping someone sees sense soon.
~Big Hugs~
The Erocses

My review conference that was supposed to happen "as soon as possible" after I didn't agree with the social workers plan is being held on the 15th of december. Less than a week before my due date....they are so doing this on purpose.

Quote from: Jeatyn on November 29, 2010, 03:51:59 AM
My review conference that was supposed to happen "as soon as possible" after I didn't agree with the social workers plan is being held on the 15th of december. Less than a week before my due date....they are so doing this on purpose.

Yup, par for the course. Welcome to my nightmare of the last 25 years and why I had to wait to transition (or be childless legal wise).

Just as a matter of interest the United Nations does offer protection for all signatory country's people the freedom from unnecessary harm and I'd like to know just how the UN sees the legalised distressing that compels a woman to have a new born baby taken away?

Losing a new baby is supposed to be traumatic yet at the same time lots of surrogates do just that so is this double standard causing Jeatyn's problem?

Quote from: lilacwoman on November 29, 2010, 04:29:50 AM
Just as a matter of interest the United Nations does offer protection for all signatory country's people the freedom from unnecessary harm and I'd like to know just how the UN sees the legalised distressing that compels a woman to have a new born baby taken away?

It isn't deemed unnecessary harm, rather it is deemed necessary to 'protect' the child.

Losing a new baby is supposed to be traumatic yet at the same time lots of surrogates do just that so is this double standard causing Jeatyn's problem?

No

If any of you want to help I'm sort of trying to gather evidence that being trans doesn't mean you'll be a bad parent. If any of you with kids, younger ones especially, want to write some sort of testimonial for me it might help add some weight.

I'm the only transperson they've ever dealt with and they seem to think it's the most insane thing in the universe for me to be able to just have a child and be completely fine.

No personal experience, but I'll do some research when I get home tonight.

Late to the party as usual, but:

I can't believe the crap you're being put through - the big question on my mind is, do these idiots not realise that by piling all this stress on you, they could be putting the baby's life in danger?! The only safe period in pregnancy is the middle three months, do they not know that?! >:(

Not saying this to scare you, just stating facts. I do hope you're at least being monitored properly, especially due to the above.

I really wish I could help you. If my baby had survived it may have been possible to write you a note. On the other hand, I didn't know I was trans back then, so things could have been very different. All I can do is pray you'll both come through this; I'm sorry you're having to put up with so much BS :-\

I raised four wonderful kids  and fostered 3 more. They know about me and their kids call me grandpa without even blinking. My kids are all fine healthy kids with various lives of their own. One is studying to be a minister, one is in the army to pay her way through college, one has a kid of their own and is about to graduate college as a mortician, one is a manager in a retail store. Do you need more on the foster kids?

I'll write out some basic info here, but if you want a formal letter I can write one up in Word and email it to you Jeatyn, okay?  Let me know if there are any specifics you are looking for.

  I am a pre-operative FtM trans man.  I have given birth to a child who is now one year old.  Being trans has in no way affected the quality of care I have provided to him. 
  He is a very happy child whose smile is often complimented by passers-by.
  I would do anything for my son, and if that means to breastfeed or appear "more feminine" then so be it!  Doing so has not affected my mental stability in any way.  I am capable and willing to be a wonderful Papa to him and there is no reason why any other trans person could not do the same.

Thanks for the help guys ;D if you could PM me a name/age/location to add to the testimonials it'll make them seem more "real" if you get me.

To reinforce Jeatyn's request, it is really important that you properly identify yourselves on any testimonials. Without proper reference, any statements and testimonials will have little value to the authorities.

Jeatyn will not misuse the information in any way. It is unlikely you will be contacted. But reference is ncessary

The UK Social Work authorities are notoriously secretive and certainly won't publish any details you may submit.

I do hope all those who are able, will assist Jeatyn with this. It will be appreciated by all.

I'm starting to wish I had kids, just so I could help out. But I would have been a disastrous parent.

I've contacted gires and gender trust so far, I've had emails back saying things like "oh no that's terrible" but then no further replies or offers of advice =/ was very disappointed in them really.

Get working on that blogg post dude!
Time and the tides wait for no man.....

Yeah, I was thinking that if there were something a little more concrete than this thread to link to, I could send it in as a "Slog Tip" to Dan Savage.  (He's a very popular gay blogger and advice columnist in Seattle)  I don't know for sure that he would post it since he probably gets a lot of mail, but it sure would be worth a try! (He's the one who started the "It Gets Better" project, helped get the word out about Constance McMillan, etc)

Just working on my appeal letter right now, then I will do the blog. Head is spinning with all the details!

Quote from: Jeatyn on December 04, 2010, 10:16:57 AM
Just working on my appeal letter right now, then I will do the blog. Head is spinning with all the details!

Understand Jeatyn.

You need to make a list of what exactly you want to present, to back your case. Try to stick to those sources which you feel comfortable with.

Then, make a sub list of those which you intend to use.

Compile a presentation. Organise it so each of the issues is dealt with by section. Suggest you put the testimonials last.

Leave it for a day. or so. Then look again and make sure it's what you want to say.

Then print as many copies as there are people on the panel. In addition, print some for other significant people, including the local press and such. Put each into a folder.

Distribute them.

It is actually better to have too much, provided it's all relevant, that too little.

Good luck love.

A quick update

I've been issued an official pre-proceedings letter basically saying if I refuse to comply I will be taken to court to get the baby taken in to care the second she's born. Up until now these have been idle threats with nothing on paper.

I wrote to my councillors asking for help a while ago and I got a reply, they "looked in to it" apparently, and I got a horribly condescending letter back that pretty much just reiterated all the nonsense in the social workers reports....I'm unstable, I'm an alcoholic, I abuse drugs, etc etc....and that it was nothing to do with me being trans, and basically making me look a moron for bringing out the discrimination card in the first place.

For the record I've even gone as far as getting a drug test and a liver screening to try and prove that the alcohol and drug accusations aren't true....nobody gives a crap.

I don't know what else to do, I'm being lied about and none of my refutes are being taken seriously.

Looking like you are going to need to trust in the evidence you submit and hope to god that the judge hates someone on the other side.
This is one of the saddest screwy situations I have heard.
I am not surprised they didnt say anything about being trans in formal papers. Their lawyer musta gave them the heads up.

Jeatyn.

Look at this:  http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp (http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp)

There is a whole lot to read but he does seem to have some good advice. You might also consider phoning him.

I do, strongly suggest, you contact this guy, with as many details as you can lay your hands on.

Remember, to cut and paste. He won't accept email attachments for reasons he has given.

But have a quick read first.

The things he says in that article are true for the USA also. Very accurate of what happens here right down to the forced adoptions and threats of future possible abuse and the only things social workers need to do is say it is in their opinion. That trumps any lawyer, expert, psychiatrist/psychologist, witness, or anything else.

Crap, a lot of these "golden rules" I have already broken. I have agreed to all their experts assessing me and they've made it worse. I've tried to explain and elaborate on stupid statements in the reports....and they have indeed twisted the elaborations even further to make me sound even worse. It also says not to complain about the system or their policy's, I have sent off several letters to higher ups pointing out mistakes and it has made them even more heavy handed. This latest letter goes on about how I've been hostile and uncooperative to the social workers and everything. I don't believe how ridiculous this system is, it truly boggles my mind.

I think that people in other countries might be more trusting of their governments than Americans are, but for everyone I know here it's pretty much engrained that:
NEVER TALK TO THE AUTHORITIES (no matter who they are) WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT.

tell the questioner: I need counsel to address that question.

No offence to them but don't bother with your local councillors - even if they're inclined to help they have no pull with the social services in this, and a lot to lose if they get involved. If you're going to try to get any representitive help you need to start at the MP level. Try and find out their clinic hours.

This whole thing is horriffic, but unfortunately standard operating procedure for child welfare (thats a laugh) in the UK. I'd love to offer some better advice, but I think for right now, you need to focus on having the baby and then being strong once she's here. Grit your teeth and play along to stay together then get to fighting them somehow.

Jeatyn

Contact that guy. Explain everything. Write it out as a time line.  Cut and paste as much official stuff as you can. Then phone him to tell him what you done and ask for his help.

http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp (http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp)

I wanted a lawyer present when I had the original child protection conference, but like an idiot I used one that the social recommended, and she mysteriously wasn't available to attend the day of the conference. The one I have now I found on my own and he has basically told me not to say anything and not to sign anything and any papers I get I am to send to him.

The shrink they made me see did her damaging assessment of me and it's her they've got as an "expert" to say I have a whole mess of mental disorders and an alcohol abuse problem. She has also been completely unavailable to talk to since she sent out this report. It's insanity.

Yes, it is.

Give the web address of http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp (http://www.forced-adoption.com/introduction.asp) to your lawyer.

I have to say, I'm so pleased you got one. But he is going to need information. And you need to take it easy. He needs now to get this nonsense under some control.

I had a lawyer too, the judge told him to shut up and sit down. some good that does.

Solution: hit man.

I hope this lawyer is able to help.

My advice remains the same, get out while you still can.

Hi Jeatyn

Just read this thread and I'm so sorry I did not read it much sooner.  As others have expressed, their total outrage at the injustice that is being done. I'm also livid at the injustice of the situation.

I have just sent you and Spacial personal messages, that may provide the help you need.

Take care and my thoughts are with you.

Love and hugs
Sarah B

the lawyers at Leigh Day are the best with these human rights issues.  email the basic facts to them immediately and see what they recommend.

God dammit, had a review conference today. Social Services are now officially issuing care proceedings to take the baby off me. This means I will probably be spending christmas, new year and my birthday under surveillance in the hospital while all the bank holidays are going by to get a court date -_-

My midwife, an independent psychiatrist and the head of safeguarding nurse strongly disagreed with it, and the chairperson asked the social worker like 3 times if she was sure she wouldn't change her mind....they are still going ahead with it.

I can only hope and pray that they see she was dead wrong and then help to support you and the baby.

This is so transparently trans/homo phobic that it is not funny.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on December 15, 2010, 10:51:03 AM
I can only hope and pray that they see she was dead wrong and then help to support you and the baby.

This is so transparently trans/homo phobic that it is not funny.

I don't know what else I can add, but this is complete bull->-bleeped-<-.  I still can't believe they're doing this to you (and your daughter). 

this makes me so angry and sad at the same time. i wish i could contribute anything helpful, but i can only wish you lots of strenght. :(

My lawyer says it's a good thing that it's going to court, they're not working on solid facts and just wanting me to panic and start signing things. Which obviously I'm not going to do.

Aww, that's awesome then!  Does your lawyer have a good case set up for you?

Also: How are you feeling physically? Your due date must be getting close!

I haven't been reading much lately and have only just caught up with your story, Jeatyn. It sickens me to read what is happening. I wish I could do something helpful other than just sending my support to you. When you get to court, keep calm and in control. Look the part of the perfect parent. It may not help but it certainly won't harm your case.

Quote from: Jeatyn on December 16, 2010, 05:07:45 PM
My lawyer says it's a good thing that it's going to court, they're not working on solid facts and just wanting me to panic and start signing things. Which obviously I'm not going to do.

Sounds good--hang in there, buddy!

Hope it works out for you, man.  Wish there was something I could do to help.

Don't know if this is too little too late but on yesterdays daily mail web page is a story of an east anglia couple who went to spain to avoid having their second child taken off them. Their first had been removed because of "possible future emotional damage" The youngest was put into a spanish orphonage after being removed by the spanish social workers but the couple have now passed the spanish psychological tests with flying colours been given their son back and are now sueing suffolk social services. Also i think it said another 50 families that have had their children removed because of possibe emotional damage in the future are now suing the authorities. So there is definitely a precedent being set and i think most social services would now be treading very carefully

I read a story the other day about social services removing a baby from the hospital the second it was born before the paperwork was done and the mother sued for 50 grand compensation.

It's completely ridiculous, they go from one extreme to another. One year the media is filled with stories about them ignoring an obvious child abuse case and the kid dying. Then the next it's filled with people losing their kids for no justified reason. The system clearly needs a massive overhaul.

As for how I physically feel....not too bad considering I'm about to pop :D I'm just paranoid my waters are going to break on a bus or something

It's times like this that make me shake my head. I spend a lot of time around people who earnestly need help, and have the resources to get it. But one of the common excuses I hear is "They don't care about me", and I struggle to reassure them that they do care, which is why they're there.

But such a glaring oversight just astounds me. And it scares and saddens me that if this had been any issue besides GID, they would have been there for you much sooner.

Hi Jeatyn

You mentioned this little piece of information:

Quote from: Jeatyn on December 16, 2010, 05:07:45 PM
My lawyer says it's a good thing that it's going to court, they're not working on solid facts and just wanting me to panic and start signing things. Which obviously I'm not going to do.

Definitely, do not sign anything with them.  Because as you know personally, you have not done anything wrong and as a result of their investigation, evaluation and prejudice of some individuals in your case.   They have caused you emotional stress, pain and suffering and last but not least, social services have more than likely infringed upon your human rights namely Article 8 - Privacy and Article 14 - Discrimination.  So take them to court, so that cases like yours never happen again.

I know you will be a wonderful father, so be strong, keep your head up high and don't let anybody get to you, take care and all the best for the future.

My kindest regards
Sarah B

Got a nice scare tactic phone call this morning.

They're trying to get me to agree to go in to a surveillance unit in some random city miles away for 3 months while they give me psychological evaluation and blah blah. Apparently this is the "only way" I can stay with my daughter. If I do not agree, they're going to remove her, as already been threatened.....and this is the best part....give her to the birth father.

They were asking me for contact details - which I don't even have - to which they responded that they would have to "trace him via GP's records and school data"

Ok sure, good luck with that, who are they the CIA?

Quote from: Jeatyn on December 21, 2010, 07:54:38 AM
and this is the best part....give her to the birth father.

Now they are talking crap. They can't give the care of a abay to anyone without a full assessment. And since the father, (presumably), hasn't expressed any interest, that puts him out of the frame anyway.

But, you absolutely must make full notes of this now. These notes must say you got a phone call, what time, deascribing the tone of voice and manner, including the sex of the speaker. You must also try to remember, verbatum quotes and any contact or reference details thay may have given you.

This is extremely important. These will constitute contemporanius notes, which are admissable in court.

I also suggst you phone your solicitor's office and leave a message to this effect on his machine

Certainly a scare tactic, they cannot give the child to someone who does not want them, if they are aware that the father has stated that they do not want the child then they are basically telling you that they are willing to give your child to a household where they are unwanted and thus more likely to receive inadequate care. If they get you to go to this surveillance unit then they will be trapping you, another method for them to get between you and your child, also a method for them to try to wear you down and avoid you being able to reach out to others, them pulling this seems to equate to panic mode. Because if they can use those psychological evaluations to discredit you, then the public will pay not mind to your story and discard the facts as a grudge or ramblings of someone who is unstable when, honestly, you seem pretty damned stable to me and from reading this thread seem like someone who'd be a great dad, it says a lot with you still being determined to keep and care for your child even after being run through this mill.

All I can suggest is keeping written, and when possible audio/video record, I don't know if you have a voice recorder or camcorder, but by your social worker entering your home aware that you wish to record the visit, he/she is consenting to all interactions being recorded, if they refuse to allow you to record then you refuse to let them into your home, that is your private property, you have every right to record within your home, and if they try to refuse that then they are proving they have something to hide. They only need to be informed that entering the premises means they are consenting to being recorded, a simple sign on your door would suffice as a warning. If they're trying this hard then they have themselves set on taking your child, there may be no amount of behaving and jumping through their loops that will sway them from it, but the court can, but you have to have evidence otherwise it'll be your word against theirs, and a social worker's word is normally taken a bit more highly than that of the person they're hounding unless there's solid evidence to prove otherwise. This also includes saving messages they leave on your voice mail, letters they have sent you, all that, it's all evidence. I'm not a lawyer or anything but I've tangled with social services before, thought this was in the US, still, those are the things that saved my skin, I'm suggesting them because, maybe they'll help you.

I hope whichever path you takes works, and I hope they don't manage to take your little one from you, as someone who has two children they had to give up I know the pain of not seeing your little one every day, of not knowing if they're alright or not, I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone who had the potential to be a good parent, be they mother, father, either. I wish you the best in this, reading this thread you seem to love your child even though you've not yet met them, and that's what a good parent does, that's how a good parent feels, that shows you're be, not a good dad, but a great dad. I hope that the courts see that, for your sake and the sake of the child you're having.

That came out a lot longer than I expected, my apologies.

Since child protection was brought up I've been keeping a written log each time someone calls or pops by. I would have liked to record it but I don't have the equipment.

I contacted my lawyer to let him know what they're proposing and shockingly he's told me to go for it =/ I'm really confused, he's been telling me to fight this whole time and now when they come up with the most extreme option he tells me to agree to it?

I'm not going to, this is the kind of place where they send recovering heroine addicts and people like that to help them integrate in to normal living with their child.

If I agree to go, I am basically agreeing with the fact that I'm unstable and require serious help.

and if you dont go they take away your baby

harsh choice

oh this gets better and better

they contacted the father, told him everything

he's going to be in court with me now, fighting for custody

*headesk*

He wanted nothing to do with the baby and now he does because you are Trans.  Foul.  They had no business outing you.

Ok sure, good luck with that, who are they the CIA?

they contacted the father

People underestimate the power, scope, authority and reach of The State always end up paying for it.

The birth father does have a right to know the status of his child. It should have been expected that they would contact him if they have any plans of taking the child since he is next in line to have custody and he does have legal rights. It has noting to do with 'outing' anyone. If he doesn't know by now that Jeatyn is a biological girl, he is totally out of his head. If you think he won't know of Jeatyn's transition when he has equal legal rights to the child you are Wrong, no one was outed exactly.

It sucks but look at it from the other parents point of view. If it were your kid, you would want to be informed of social services actions regarding your child.

As to the part about not giving the baby to anyone without an assessment, they are attempting to do just that, give Jeatyn an assessment before giving her the baby. You may complain about that but then you have to complain about the same with the birth father, and the argument will go that if Jeatyn don't need one then neither does he.

This surveillance unit may be the only way to prove your point although it can also go against you, especially since they are looking for specific behaviors and will not tell you what they are looking for. Psychology for ya.

I feel for you, Jeatyn, but other than leaving before it got to this point, I see no out for you. If you want to know your kid at all, you end up having to play the game.

Tell me about it Tekla, how they managed that I have no idea. Scary really

The father knew I was trans and stuff, but now he has been told all this rubbish about how crazy I am and how I'm an alcoholic and blah blah

It bugs the crap out of me that he is being regarded as the best place to place her should I lose. I have sisters willing to take her, who are actual functioning adults. Not silly kids in uni who accidentally knocked someone up and then fled the scene.

I'm sorry Jeatyn :( Exactly like the others said, it's a game to them now. I know the father didn't have any interest before but do you think he really does now? I mean... I hate to say it, but if he really does do you think he would work out joint custody with you?

I can't begin to imagine how hard this is for you but maybe if he would do that it would be better than them taking you and the baby away to be put under surveillance. Obviously they aren't playing fair, that's the only reason I would suggest it. This stress really isn't good for you. Nothing more I can say than I'm sorry and I really hope things work out for both of you. Do you think he believes what they told him?

I would be so frustrated by now that I would go stay with a friend in another country and give birth there ... stay abit and maybe start a new life.  It's crazy what you are going through.

Wait, what? So he runs, abandoning you and the child and now he turns around and wants to fight you for custody after saying he didn't want anything to do with the child? After you've been through hell and back trying to keep your child, the child that you alone have been carrying without his support? And those idiotic social workers think this is alright just because you are trans? Pardon my language but what they're pulling here is complete and undeniably bull->-bleeped-<-!

........I just looked up UK anti-discrimination laws, I saw a comment about transsexuals being covered in those laws but sadly I cannot find many details about it and to what extent trans people are protected by those laws, sorry, I tried to see if I can find something to help you but I don't really know what to look for to get the specifics. However, if you have your sisters willing to take in the child, are they also willing to help you raise the child if they stay with you? Having family there who's willing and capable, as well as able to clear their 'requirements' for keeping the child there to help you can hold a good bit of sway in some cases, though that depends on the judge you get. But if they're trying to pull you being an alcoholic, they're just looking for any reason to take the child from you, possible they may even be making things up too, underhanded sons of. . .

The father is apparently now ready to step up to the plate and be responsible and all that jazz.

I don't think he's thought this through, he lives in a dorm for starters. Pretty sure they won't allow a baby to move in with him.

It's so unfair that your options can be used againt you.  :-\ Even though it could go the other way the surveillance unit could also be a place where you can prove you're a good parent.

I honestly don't trust them to do the assessments properly if I go in to this unit

sure in theory, it should prove that there's nothing wrong with me and that the social are idiots

but they have been completely ignoring all my evidence so far, what if they keep doing it?

But can they really argue that you are mentally unstable if they are with you 24/7?

I mean, how could they get that wrong?  Also, wouldn't it be different social workers there? Ones without a crazy prejudice against you?

But still, whatever you decide is best.

Quote from: SnailPace on December 21, 2010, 02:31:32 PM
But can they really argue that you are mentally unstable if they are with you 24/7?

I mean, how could they get that wrong?  Also, wouldn't it be different social workers there? Ones without a crazy prejudice against you?

It's amazing how much a preconception can skew an evaluator. If Jeatyn's new observers are already under the impression that he is unstable, then they will tend to read him that way. He will probably have to work extra hard to dig himself out of it.

I once knew someone who (probably because I was so butch) was completely convinced that I was a lesbian. By the time I met her, I was not even pretending to be bisexual anymore, yet she saw everything I said and did as undeniably lesbian. Even my partner's name and the pronouns I used--just add an "a" to the end, and you have a girl's name, so my partner was obviously a girl...and of course I used male pronouns when I referred to my partner because I didn't want people to think I was a lesbian...and I always used the word "partner" to refer to my partner...DYKE!!!!

I've had people argue with me over whether I'm a vegetarian (I've never been one, but a coworker was shocked to see me eating meat one day at lunch, and I couldn't seem to convince him that I've always eaten meat and never even went through a vegetarian "phase"), whether I was brought up Catholic (my boy name has a Catholic flavor, so of course I must have been raised Catholic, regardless of what I kept telling the guy), and whether I was ever in the Navy (no, just a brat, but I couldn't persuade a classmate that I had never served).

Once people get an idea into their heads, it's hard to dislodge it.

aye this is exactly what worries me. Say for example I end up feeling a little bit down and wanting a bit of a cry, am I immediately going to be labelled as having post natal depression? Normal things that anyone would do on a day to day basis could easily be twisted and looked upon as bad just because of the pre-conceived personality that's been thrust upon me. I'll be away from everyone and everything I know, I'm GOING to feel awkward and like a fish out of water. Will this come across as "proof" of my apparent severe social anxiety disorder?

If you have to do what they demand, maybe you can at least have internet access to be in contact with your family here.

This is so wrong.  I am so irritated at the baby snatchers and that is what they are called in the States.

But can they really argue that you are mentally unstable if they are with you 24/7?

I think that having to do that, in Jeatyn's condition and situation would make the most mentally stable person in the world unstable in no short order.  It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Finally able to pop in and update!

She's arrived ;D two days ago in fact. She's perfect and adorable.

I'm being held in the hospital and I'm in court tomorrow morning.

I'd write more and post some pictures under normal circumstances but yeah...I'll try and get on at some point to let you all know what happened in court.

Congrats on being a dad to a healthy little girl man! I bet it's a great feeling :) Good luck in court tomorrow. I hope it all works out for you and your daughter :) 

Congratulations!  I'm glad to hear that it went well.  I'll keep my fingers crossed for you in court.  Let us know how it goes.

Congratulations on the baby.
get your lawyer to get a court order giving you custody for at least another week until the country is working again.
Only a cretin of a social worker woudl give custody to the baby's ex.  but we know there are a lot of such social workers.

Well welcome to our youngest member.  And of course there are a tone of aunts and uncles wanting pictures.  I pray she can stay with her 'daddy'.

Congrats on the baby... Hoping for a good outcome in court for you

I'm happy for you, Jeatyn. It must be an incredible relief to have finally given birth. I hope you are recovering well.

Good luck in court. Don't let those bastards mess with your head.

Congrats!
Best of luck in your upcomeing battle!

Congrats on a healthy delivery, it's good to here the lil one's in good health and I truly do wish you the best in this upcoming court date, maybe them seeing you with your little girl will show how good of a parent you can truly be.

Congratulations and i really hope things start going your way with the courts

Congrats on the baby and good luck in court.

What they said. I'm so pleased your daughter arrived safely. She's clearly happy to be in your care.

Just another quick update!

Me and Arisa are back at home. The stipulation being that my sister has to be here 24/7 and social workers pop round unannounced to check up on me. (for the next month, when it will be reviewed) It isn't ideal but it could have been so much worse. There wasn't enough evidence for a proper court session so I'm back in on the 5th when all the witnesses are back off holiday. Not sure if the "agreement" will change then but it's a possibility.

Loving parenthood, quite tired but very happy ;D

Hey you

I've been reading this thread but haven't said anything yet, so congrats on the birth of your daughter dude. I'm sure you'll be an amazing dad and I hope you show those over zealous [insert rude word of your choice here]s at the social services that they're a big bunch of bigoted [insert rude word of your choice here]s with the collective intelligence of a wardrobe.

but anyway, big congrats and Arisa is a lovely name.

I am so glad to hear that you and Arisa are home.  Yeah, parenthood is exhausting, frustrating, a 24/7 commitment  and the most wonderful thing.  Well at least to me.

Take care of Arisa and she will grow up feeling and being loved.

And as per the unwritten law of Susan's.  Pictures or it did not happen.  We want pictures.

This is good news...I hope it's the beginning of some sanity on the part of the PTBs.

I wish I could remember the name of a book I read back in the nineties...all about an MTF/FTM couple in the British Isles (probably England) who stumbled across each other pre-transition and fell in love. They both wanted children, and neither one had had any bits removed. He gave birth before transitioning.

I don't remember when it happened--sometime in the eighties, I guess.

Glad youve got your little girl at home- and my fingers are crossed for the 5th

posted some piccies in the photo sharing thread  :)

She is so precious.  You must be one proud papa.

Congratulations Jeatyn!!!  :)

We wish you and your little one the best!

Hugs!

Patty

You have one seriously cute little girl. She's beautiful man! Congrats!

lovely baby and deep thinker by way she locks her fingers together.

Lovely baby, gracious name. And now you have some time in which you can prove to those official idiots that they are wrong wrong wrong! I'm so glad your sister can be there for the time being.

Hi Jeatyn

Congratulations on your baby daughter Arisa and the pictures you posted are beautiful.  Its good to hear that you are home with Arisa.  Keep fighting, challenge everything they throw at you and don't sign anything.

Wishing you and your daughter a wonderful and prosperous New Year

Love and hugs
Sarah B

Goddess, I'm so glad that I have my life in Germany! Our mental health system (including insurance) isn't the best in the world, but much better than in the US of A. My surgery has been paid, my pills (Hormones) I must pay for each 5€ each quarter of a year. And as a poor person i don't have to pay for all more than 50€ a year.

She is so cute!  I'm happy to hear that you're both at home and together, even if it isn't a perfect situation.  Here's hoping things change for the better on the 5th.

She is a rather beautiful child, and glad to hear you're able to be home with her, even if your sister has to be there, hey, it'll give the little one a chance to get to know her Aunt and her Dad at the same time, might not be an ideal situation but it's not a bad one and must take a lot of strain off you while recovering from birth.

I wish you luck on the 5th, though I should say I wish you fairness in the outcome of the court date because that's what having luck would bring to begin with.

Well that was rubbish. The social workers didn't bother coming out to do any assessments this past week and the witnesses still weren't available. So everything is still the same, back in court in two weeks.

Maybe that is their whole plan.  Trying to keep you guessing.  Let them play their silly games.

Meanwhile you and Arisa are getting to know each other.  I am sure she has found at least a couple of buttons that she can press to get Daddy to do what she wants.   ;D

make sure you let the court know how lax the social workers were and how everyone says you're a good parent.

are there any birth follow ups clinics etc that you and the baby can go to so that you have some evidence that the baby is thriving and you are happy? 

anything like this carries weight in court.

Relax pet.

They're running scared but want to walk away with their dignity intact.

Getting your own lawyer probably shook them a wee bit.

Quote from: lilacwoman on January 05, 2011, 02:10:05 PM
make sure you let the court know how lax the social workers were and how everyone says you're a good parent.

are there any birth follow ups clinics etc that you and the baby can go to so that you have some evidence that the baby is thriving and you are happy? 

anything like this carries weight in court.

That's very good advice. Murphy's Law states that if and when the social worker turns up at long last, it will be the morning you haven't slept all night, the dirty nappies haven't been ditched, Arisa is tired and screamy, the dishes are still not washed, etc. etc. In other words, a very common day in the life of any young parent. So the more evidence you can gather from reliable, independent sources, the better chance you have of countering any "negativity" they may throw at you. Infant welfare sisters ( or your local equivalent) are no fools - they know when a baby is healthy, happy, thriving and loved, even when the parent is looking like something the cat dragged in, due to chronic fatigue, hormonal havoc, and all the other delights of parenthood. And the slacker they are in bringing this case to its proper conclusion, the better it is for you, despite the anxiety you must be feeling. Every day is an opportunity to build on that bond and show you have the right stuff.

And I agree with what Spacial said above - you are showing in all the right ways that you will not be pushed around and, frankly, I think they'll be glad to draw a line under your "case".

Enjoy Arisa, despite all these distractions - those tiny babies grow at an extraordinary rate.

I also have my midwife/health visitor, lawyer, and childrens guardian (Arisa's representative in court) popping over to see me and they are all writing reports. I tried to go to some sure start classes like baby massage and stuff like that but they don't like to take you on until the baby is at least 6 weeks old so I have to wait.

The social worker finally came round yesterday, she didn't seem to know what to say. The place was imaculate, Arisa was mid feed and all happy, my cats behaved beautifully for once :P

I've also decided to breast feed her, she likes it, and it massively helps my case. Clearly I'm not freaking out about my female-ness if I'm willing to breastfeed, so I knocked that right out of the case.

She seems to finally be realising she has no grounds for this ridiculousness. Before Arisa was born she made it quite clear they intended to be up in my grill for a LONG time....yesterday there was talk of getting the surveillance reduced, and being removed completely after a few weeks if all goes well. Fingers crossed.

Oh my god! That is such good news!

And really, breastfeeding is not so bad.  I only get annoyed a bit now because my son is older than one and he still won't stop!  It's the only thing keeping me from T.

I've got my fingers majorly crossed for you!

I prefer breastfeeding to bottle feeding because its a hands free operation  :P just prop her on a pillow in my lap and shes sorted, so i can type or eat or be on the phone. any opportunity to multi-task has to be exploited  :D

Breast feeding also can help parent and child to bond even more.  I am so glad that they might be backing off.  They have no business being in your business.

Glad to hear that our niece is fat, sassy and happy.

Huggles to both of you.

Hi Jeatyn

Its, so good to hear that everything is going great.  Thank you for keeping us up to date.

Love and hugs
Sarah B

Fingers crossed - tho it makes it difficult to type- that things are finally looking up. I really really hope that this is the end of their stupidness and you finally get given the chance to just be yourself with your beautiful daughter

point out to social worker idiot that neither Elton John or his partner can breastfeed and would be seen as seriously sick if either of them tried it.
No better not, that logic would be seen as homophobic and therefore your parenting ability suspect.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 07, 2011, 05:41:40 AM
I prefer breastfeeding to bottle feeding because its a hands free operation  :P just prop her on a pillow in my lap and shes sorted, so i can type or eat or be on the phone. any opportunity to multi-task has to be exploited  :D

I want to say, this is such an intelegent decision on your part, for so many reasons.

First and foremost, and I'm pretty sure your primary, is it's best for the baby. I don't want to, nor would I, make any suggestion to someone who chose otherwise. But as an intelgent guy, I'm sure you know what a wonderful and absolutely perfect decision this is.

While others are secondary, a long way down, they are never-the-less, equally important.

I really hope you can start to put the nastyness behind you.

If it's any consolation, social work departments habitually, have case reviews. When they review your case, lessons will be learnt. That I do know. The next person in your situation should have fewer problems as a result.

Take care. And if you don't mind, but only when you're ready, huggs to your baby.

It's all great news, but don't let your guard down until you're sure you've seen the back of this woman officially. Reports are good - make sure your visitors document everything, just in case. I'm so pleased you've decided to breastfeed. It's a smack in the eye for the social worker, it's best for Arisa, and you can do it at night without getting out of bed (or even waking up properly  :D).

Quote from: minniemouse on January 07, 2011, 08:14:36 PM
It's all great news, but don't let your guard down until you're sure you've seen the back of this woman officially. Reports are good - make sure your visitors document everything, just in case. I'm so pleased you've decided to breastfeed. It's a smack in the eye for the social worker, it's best for Arisa, and you can do it at night without getting out of bed (or even waking up properly  :D).

unfortunately my agreement states im never allowed to be alone with her :( she's in a moses basket in the living room with my sister for sleepy times while I'm in my room

Quote from: lilacwoman on January 07, 2011, 02:26:00 PM
and would be seen as seriously sick if either of them tried it.

Why?

It's so nice to finally hear some good news about this.  It's easy for them to speculate about what kind of a parent someone will be, but now that she's with you, there's proof that they're just full of it.  I can't wait to hear that they've stopped this stupidity completely.

That's great to hear, and props to you for breastfeeding her. With any luck that daft agreement will be lifted soon enough and you can finally live a relatively normal life with your daughter :)

Quote from: Vexing on January 08, 2011, 05:18:43 AM
Why?

Pre-conceived and deeply held gender boundaries. Nothing wrong with or stopping cis/trans men breastfeeding, it just unsettles the 'but..but teh womens do that baby stuff' majority mindset.

google... men breastfeeding
you might be surprised

Quote from: Chastance on January 11, 2011, 07:41:10 AM
Pre-conceived and deeply held gender boundaries. Nothing wrong with or stopping cis/trans men breastfeeding, it just unsettles the 'but..but teh womens do that baby stuff' majority mindset.

I find pedophilia and rape 'seriously sick', but men breastfeeding? Odd maybe, but not 'seriously sick'.

Quote from: Vexing on January 12, 2011, 12:00:26 AM
I find pedophilia and rape 'seriously sick', but men breastfeeding? Odd maybe, but not 'seriously sick'.

Then you're a step in the right direction. Breastfeeding is hard, let the men pick up the slack (just shave the hairy chest first).

Just got out of court again

The social are not backing down at all, even though Arisa is 3 weeks old and I've been nothing but perfect they still aren't satisfied.

They wanted the 24/7 surveillance to carry on for a further 6 weeks, we basically told them to do one, so they are issuing care proceedings again. We contested, obviously....and we're back in court on Monday.

Hilariously enough, they are going to pay for me to go to charring cross to see James Barrett for a full assessment. Over two years I've tried to get this, and now they hope it might work in their favour (if he reckons I'm nuts, which he won't) they are all for handing over a couple of grand to get me in ASAP and even pay for my travel expenses.

For now, the 24 hour surveillance carries on and we have to see what happens in court.

Sick of this man, they just delay everything constantly, what do they want from me exactly? Apart from my baby -_-

Gee, this sounds familiar.  I truly understand what you are feeling. I wish I could change it for you but, I can't.

Hang in there. Let your legal team make all the arguments while you just sit there, looking like the perfect parent. Meanwhile, I'm sending all the bad vibes I can muster towards them. As for James Barrett, I hope he is able to deliver a knockout blow to their case. Best wishes, Jeatyn. I admire you, man. No-one should have to put up with this crap.

Just one word of caution here. As some of you will know I have a very close friend who used to be one of the psychiatrists at Charing Cross. Not to put too fine a point on it he has some "interesting" views on Dr Barratt.

Now allowing for the fact that his opinion is probably coloured slightly by the fact that they had a ratehr public falling out, my sense from both him, and others I have heard speak, and who know Barratt, is that he is possibly the least sympathetic of all the doctors who are there and the one that if you can avoid it you really don't want to have to deal with.

I believe he has helped some people but I have also heard him described as a serial tormentor of trans folks. He has a bit of a reputation for changing his mind saying one thing to your face and another later on when he writes a letter. This can make it difficult to know where you stand with him. So if there is any possibility that there is some other doctor on the CXH team that they would allow you to see then I think it might be easier. I think Barratt is currently the head of department there which is possibly why he was specifically named, but there are other well respected doctors there. Now to be fair (and because I don't want to libel anyone) let me point out that any comments about Barratt are technically hearsay and are just an opinion not proven fact, but I think they are worth bearing in mind.

Anyway I hope and pray that you will get this all sorted out soon. It seems to me to be very odd, particularly given the fact that there are many succesful trans parents out there, and indeed Transpeople have been approved for adoption too. So your social workers seem to me to be treating you as though your problems are simply not trans related, either that or they are incredibly ignorant of what the normal attitudes to trans people are in the country these days.

Either way - I wish the very best of luck.

oh man I hape Barrett doesn't screw me over further =/ I can't see someone else, the court order specifically names him as the person I need to see.

Just gonna have to wait and see I guess

My experience with James Barrett was a good one, his letter was no different to what was said in my appointment with him and i've nothing bad to say about him.

I'm hoping you have a good experience too.

Well as I said my comments were based on hearsay and therefore should perhaps be taken with a little caution. I am glad to hear that some people have found him ok. Unfortunately it's like anything, you tend to find the people with a gripe easier than those who had good reports.

I was just a bit concerned from what I had previously heard. Anyway you should always bear in mind that all doctors have to be initially approached carefully until you know what line they are going to take with you.

Jeatyn.

Make sure you keep your lawyer in the loop.

And, if you haven't already done so, contact some of those groups I gave you, telling them your whole story. Especially that MP.

Write a brief summary, then the full thing.

I can't realy say I know exactly what's going on. My gut tells me they are still trying to retreat with some dignity. But you are there and know everything first hand. (Which I don't).

But the rule for you must be: records, diary, contacts, sticking to the point.

Jeatyn. I understand how isolated and put upon you must feel right now. But as I've said previously, I'm in a similar situation after something that I did 40 years ago. I'm sorry, but it's just a matter of keeping up the fight.

Good luck mate- heres hoping it all blows up in their faces very soon

My gut tells me they are desperately wanting me to ->-bleeped-<- up so they can take her and get her adopted while she's still little and cute.

They've said if this report from Dr Barrett comes back fine then they want me to see someone else. They won't let up until somebody "confirms" that I am in fact insane

I can't see an end to this, I really can't

What is your lawyer saying about all of this nonsense?  They are just trying to bend the evidence in their favor, not letting the truth be told.

Maybe you could pretend you're not trans anymore and sell your story to pay for a privately funded transition.  This thread would make a great movie.

As someone with a bit of experience of the UK bureaucracy I can tell you that despite your current and understandable feelings this will end eventually. You just have to hang on long enough for them to conclude that they have more urgent things to do than hound you.

You are doing the right things. Of course they will say "oh well then will do this and that" - because they are trying to pile on the pressure to MAKE you snap, because if you once do that you have saved them from having to prove their case, which clearly they are finding rather difficult.

It's like a game of bluffing. They are clearly trying to psych you.

The problem is if it has gone this far, then the social worker must be being made to look somewhat grossly incompetent or prejudiced and so the whole system will be trying desperately to get the outcome they expected so that no one has to face the prospect of disciplinary action or an awkward enquiry into the seemingly wrongful hounding of an innocent parent.

However there are some things that can sometimes maybe help to speed up this point being reached, they are:

1. Get your local MP on board if possible, and ask him/her to start raising questions.
2. Get some sympathetic media coverage about the potential miscarriage of justice.

Neither is a guaranteed fix - but both can sometimes help if approached in the right way.

Jestyn.

This is classic grind down tactics.

I really hope you do as Jenny suggested. And I also hope you contact that MP whose name I gave you.

I hope you remember to record the conversations with these people, especially their claim they will refer you to someone else if this one doesn't go as they wish.

But as I keep telling you, you are just going to have to get use to fighting.

It looks like you have to get as many heavyweights as you can in your corner and not let the jerks grind you down before they finally have to call it quits and give in.

Talk to your attorney about this MP--sounds like you could benefit from the support.

Don't let the bastards get you down.

I tried my mp, they sided with SS.

my appeal reply came through today, they basically say I'm full of crap

I'm now working with a barrister from london, he tells me to just keep calling their bluff now that its gone as high as county court, because in this environment a judge has to rule according to the law and evidence, rather than just heresay from the SS.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 20, 2011, 02:47:49 PM
I tried my mp, they sided with SS.

my appeal reply came through today, they basically say I'm full of crap

I'm now working with a barrister from london, he tells me to just keep calling their bluff now that its gone as high as county court, because in this environment a judge has to rule according to the law and evidence, rather than just heresay from the SS.

In that case, do just that. A barraster knows his stuff.

But remember, records of everything.

I'm glad you are finally finding some intelligent legal advice!

Everyone at Susans will have an online party once this is all over!

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 20, 2011, 02:47:49 PM
I'm now working with a barrister from london, he tells me to just keep calling their bluff now that its gone as high as county court, because in this environment a judge has to rule according to the law and evidence, rather than just heresay from the SS.

Well, this sounds like an improvement.

We appear to be making progress!

I've been talking to SS and my lawyer today. SS have done almost a 360 turn around. They are withdrawing the care order and are wanting to revise the care plan down from 24/7 surveillance to just 4 hours split over two shifts. SS also said that if no problems crop up between now and the next court date on march 1st they will go away completely.

My lawyer told me that the SS have hired a barrister aswell because I did, and she reckons that their barrister has told them to back off otherwise I'm gonna end up suing them.....and winning.

My barrister however doesn't particularly want me to agree to this new care plan, he just wants them off my back completely and told me not to sign anything and wait until the judge makes a ruling.

Good news!  :)  Like I said, they were trying to psych you into snapping and proving their case for them by your reaction.

When you responded in a sensible and formal legal manner they have suddenly had to confront reality.

With any luck somebody will lose their job over this!

I would have your lawyer looking for any and all reasons to slam them with a lawsuit.

They raked you over the coals for being trans. I would bend em over with as little grease as possible........

Anyways. I imagine that you want them to just go away and that is understandable. But if there is the slightest chance you could sue you should.

I'm in two minds, I do think some heads should roll over this but on the other hand I am just gonna be so glad to get back to normal life.

This is indeed good news.  Follow the advise of your attorney.  They are to go away forever.  Just leave you and Arisa alone.  Father and daughter will be fine.  She shall grow into a fine young lady, totally because of "Dad".

Oh and do we get any more pictures of our little niece?

Glad to hear it Jeatyn... Hang in there and soon they will go away for good

As others have said, follow the advice of your own barraister. I'm not surprised they hired one as well. They have no spending limits.

I will strongly advise you against sueing them or even making any sort of complaint, unless specifically advised to by your barraster. The law here is very different from the US. I could go into it, but I doubt anyone would take it seriously. (Much like I doubt anyone will take it seriously if you tell them what has been happening so far. Been there. Done that. Got the Tee shirt).

The best you can hope for from these people is they lose interest and move onto someone else.

But follow your barrister's advice. Keep your records.

Jeatyn that is really good news. Still got my fingers crossed that soon it will be all over for you

Hi Jeatyn

Excellent news and your barrister's suggestion to wait until the court hearing before a further decision is made is an excellent one.  If you still have to see James Barratt, then have someone with you and record the interview.

Take care and my thoughts are with you.

Love and hugs
Sarah B

Ah! It looks like Social Services finally clued in to reality.

I'm soooooooo glad that this is going to be over.  I mean, I'm on the other side of the world but I still have worried about you!  :-\

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 21, 2011, 10:05:43 AM
We appear to be making progress!

I've been talking to SS and my lawyer today. SS have done almost a 360 turn around. They are withdrawing the care order and are wanting to revise the care plan down from 24/7 surveillance to just 4 hours split over two shifts. SS also said that if no problems crop up between now and the next court date on march 1st they will go away completely.

Excellent! I have to admit that I laughed out loud in complete glee when I read your post. Sending you more vibes for this to all go away in the next couple of months. You're one tough sono->-bleeped-<-un, Jeatyn.

I would have liked to see the look on their barrister's face when they were discussing your case.  I imagine it'd be read as something along the lines of "you guys are screwed."  I'm so glad to hear that they're finally starting to figure out that this isn't going to work.  With all the ->-bleeped-<- they've flung at you, I would at least file a complaint and raise some hell, but as has been said, I guess it would be best to wait until things are settled.  Good luck man  :)

Wow... this ordeal could very well be over soon!  I am in awe of how strong you are Jeatyn, it must have been painful to put up with their nonsense for so long.  In the end, I hope you are able to get something monetary out of this for all the stress they've caused you.

I'll be thinking of you until this is all over.  Keep it up :)

woot!

Great news!  I hope all this is over for you soon.

Awesome, thanks for the update :)

hey i had been thinking of this every once in a while since i first read about this a couple months ago. I'm so glad things seem to be way better then when this post was started man, good job holding on! :)

Arch just pointed out to me that I haven't posted in ages so I thought I'd come do an update.


Social services involvment was supposed to end completely on the 19th of this month. Two days before that, I got a call saying my chair person was sick, and my conferance has been delayed by three months -_-

So I'm still waiting for it to be officially over, but it will be once they stop messing me about.

I've been put in contact with a human rights lawyer and I'm going to make a claim against them once it's done with

On the last court date I even heard SS lawyer ask mine "are you going to sue us?" after we won the case  :D

damn right we are!


I am also now on the waiting list for hormones after SS paid for me to go see Dr. Barratt hoping he'd tell them I was crazy. He basically said they were ignorant bullies and decided to count that meeting as an initial consultation. So in a few months I'll be SS free and shooting up T  :D ....and it rhymes, making it extra awesome

I've been wondering how things were going, so thanks for filling us in.  It's ridiculous that they're making you wait another 3 months, but it sounds like things are winding down in your favor at least.  I'm really glad to hear that things are working out.  :)

Thank you for the update. I had worried you had droped off the face o9f earth or worse yet detransitioned.
I am so glad to hear that things are still going in your favor. This just might teach those bullies to be careful about pushing around a transman!

It's just frustrating now. My sister booked time off work to come for the last conference and had even booked me and the other half a week in a hotel so we could go away while she looked after the kidlet, and it's all messed up now -_-

Seeing as there's a thing in my agreement saying if I take Arisa out of Leicester they will issue emergency proceedings *eyeroll*

I'm glad to hear things are going well!!! I had been hoping for updates almost daily (not even kidding) for the last month or more.

QuoteI am also now on the waiting list for hormones after SS paid for me to go see Dr. Barratt hoping he'd tell them I was crazy. He basically said they were ignorant bullies and decided to count that meeting as an initial consultation. So in a few months I'll be SS free and shooting up T   ....and it rhymes, making it extra awesome

That is just beautiful right there. :P  A giant slap back in their faces if there ever was one.

Thanks for the update Jeatyn. Wishing you the very best. We are glad things are going well.

Best Regards,

Roxy & Patty

I was just wondering how you were doing, just the other day.  I am glad things are finally getting close to the end.  And it is funny how they paid for your initial consult.  Joke is on them.

Give Arisa a hug and kiss from Aunt Janet.

Glad to hear that you and Arisa are doing alright. Hoping for the best for both of you man, you both deserve a good life especially after all of the drama. Good luck with it all :)

Hi Jeatyn

Thank you so much for sharing what is going on with you and Arisa.  I just like others have wondered how things were going on with you.

Quote from: Jeatyn on April 28, 2011, 06:31:56 AMSocial services involvement was supposed to end completely on the 19th of this month. Two days before that, I got a call saying my chair person was sick, and my conference has been delayed by three months -_-

I wonder if they are using this as a delaying tactic?  Something to keep in mind.

Quote from: Jeatyn on April 28, 2011, 06:31:56 AMI am also now on the waiting list for hormones after SS paid for me to go see Dr. Barratt hoping he'd tell them I was crazy. He basically said they were ignorant bullies and decided to count that meeting as an initial consultation. So in a few months I'll be SS free and shooting up T  :D ....and it rhymes, making it extra awesome

Absolutely stunning news.  It's about time you had things go your way.  Looks like you are on your way to peace and contentment in your life.

Quote from: Jeatyn on April 28, 2011, 09:48:53 AM
It's just frustrating now. My sister booked time off work to come for the last conference and had even booked me and the other half a week in a hotel so we could go away while she looked after the kidlet, and it's all messed up now -_-

Seeing as there's a thing in my agreement saying if I take Arisa out of Leicester they will issue emergency proceedings *eyeroll*

Make them pay for all the inconviences they have caused you, cost incurred by your sister, lawyers, barristers and anything else you can think of.

Take care and my thoughts and best wishes are with you.

Love and hugs
Sarah B

Just a quick update to say they are officially off our tails ;D it's finally over.

We're going to take a bit of a breather before we start up all the claim proceedings. Just need a bit of a break after this last year.

Ferret War dance! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9AVvoQozzU#)

BWT how is our youngest member?

YAY!!!!!!

Awesome I'm so glad to hear it.   :)
Good luck with your claims whenever you decide to file them.

She's doing great Janet :*

I'll go post a few more pics in just for us!

That's great news Jeatyn  ;D  Glad they're off your case... Taking a break for awhile will also give you more time to decide how you want to go about jumping their cases  >:-)

i only recently came by this forum, so i haven't seen this thread before today. all i can say now after reading the whole story is congratulations on winning against the ss! i hate those guys with passion, so please sue their shirts off if at all possible

i'm from northern norway, so i've seen the same peoples ruin more than enough of families because of their own prejudice. they even broke apart my own family, taking away my brother without consulting a psychologist who might have figured out the cause of his obvious distress was actually this child-molester of a neighbor we got here. but that's a long story and there's not much point in telling it here. i'm just so glad that you managed to get a good lawyer and shake them off before it was too late. here they tend to issue emergency procedures as soon as they've made up their minds

anyway.. i wish you luck in your new life as a father, i'm sure you'll do a great job

Fantastic!!! I haven't wanted to bother you...figured you were dealing with more important stuff. And you were.

Maybe things will be just a bit easier for the next trans parent...

It's an awful system explorer, it needs completely reworking, I hear so many storys of familys being ripped apart for no good reason  :(

I still jump whenever I hear the door buzzer go even though I know it isn't going to be them anymore

I've been away from here for a couple of months but I've occasionally wondered how you and Arisa were faring. What brilliant news to come back to. Your baby has a very strong dad. I'll wish you good luck for the future but it seems to me that you are determined to make your own luck. Well done.

Quote from: Jeatyn on June 11, 2011, 09:24:01 AMI still jump whenever I hear the door buzzer go even though I know it isn't going to be them anymore

Pain and suffering! Compensation!!

On second thought, maybe it's better to just let the chaos die down and move on.

Quote from: Arch on June 14, 2011, 06:32:36 PM
On second thought, maybe it's better to just let the chaos die down and move on.

those people are relentless, and will do the same thing over and over again. if all people who're strong enough sue them, it may also help the weaker victims in the long run. if you do nothing after having won your case, it's almost like accepting the way they do things. the chaos they create isn't something that easily dies down, it may be better to do something actively to kill it sooner. and they need to know that it's wrong to treat people like that. false accusations is a pretty severe crime in itself, and the caused fear of doorbells ringing may not ever go away completely. getting compensation may at least let you feel like you've really won, and not just been saved from doom

sorry if i expressed myself poorly, my own feelings seem to be getting in my way

I also feel very bitter both about the behaviour, in this case and in many others I know of, including my own.

But I have to say that ordinary people simply cannot win against the welfare monolith. The reality is they will always fail to repsond, leaving those around us to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm afraid that Arch is right here, better to let it lie and die down of its own accord. We can be pretty certain that those involved will be considerably more careful in the future. But these people have enormous powers, reinforced by occasional reports of dreadful situations where welfare workers stand accused of failure.

Still, one thing I have learnt is that Jeatyn is a pretty smart person who plays cards close to the chest. I'm pretty sure Jeatyn will have it out already.