Susan's Place Transgender Resources

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AtUB7Bh4Du_ZhELEHtFUTHObvZx4;_ylc=X3oDMTdrc3AxMHA0BF9TAzIwMjM1MzgwNzUEYQMxMDEwMjEgbmV3cyBjaHJpc3RpYW4gZmxhZyB0BGNwb3MDMTAEZwNpZC00NTUyOQRpbnRsA3VzBGl0YwMwBGx0eHQDQ2hyaXN0aWFuZmxhZ2RpdmlkZXN0b3duBHBrZ3YDMTcEcG9zAzAEc2VjA3RkLWZlYXQEc2xrA3RodW1ibGluawRzbHBvcwNGBHRhcgNodHRwOi8vbmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20vcy9hcC8yMDEwMTAyMS9hcF9vbl9yZV91cy91c19jaHJpc3RpYW5fZmxhZ19kZWZlbmRlcnMEdGVzdAM5NzY-/SIG=12vlgupij/EXP=1287768516/ (http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AtUB7Bh4Du_ZhELEHtFUTHObvZx4;_ylc=X3oDMTdrc3AxMHA0BF9TAzIwMjM1MzgwNzUEYQMxMDEwMjEgbmV3cyBjaHJpc3RpYW4gZmxhZyB0BGNwb3MDMTAEZwNpZC00NTUyOQRpbnRsA3VzBGl0YwMwBGx0eHQDQ2hyaXN0aWFuZmxhZ2RpdmlkZXN0b3duBHBrZ3YDMTcEcG9zAzAEc2VjA3RkLWZlYXQEc2xrA3RodW1ibGluawRzbHBvcwNGBHRhcgNodHRwOi8vbmV3cy55YWhvby5jb20vcy9hcC8yMDEwMTAyMS9hcF9vbl9yZV91cy91c19jaHJpc3RpYW5fZmxhZ19kZWZlbmRlcnMEdGVzdAM5NzY-/SIG=12vlgupij/EXP=1287768516/)**http%3A//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101021/ap_on_re_us/us_christian_flag_defenders

We need to stand up for the rights of Veterans to fly the Christian Flag over memorials.

Ugh. No, we don't. They don't, and should not, have that right.

- an atheist veteran

(that is, unless you want to also support the right of atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Wiccans, Satanists, Taoists, Pastafarians and everybody else to fly our respective flags over the same memorial, blanketing the sky in a cloud of clashing fabric, without regard to our numbers in the population or our respective influence over the government. Anything between the two extremes is a First Amendment violation, because favouring one religion over another has been determined by the courts to be an establishment of religion.)

link does not work.

British armed forces has a good mix of religions so flying any religious flag would be problematic but they all get brought home under a British flag. 
And all the ones who could not be recognised or named were given headstone marked Unknown Soldier and Known unto God which actually could be seen as problematic by some descendants as there must have been lots of dead who followed the lesser known religions or beliefs.

Might try this one.

http://loadtest.story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101021/ap_on_re_us/us_christian_flag_defenders (http://loadtest.story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101021/ap_on_re_us/us_christian_flag_defenders)

Stories like this make me really think about becoming An American Expatriate

I'm a veteran.  I was willing to give my life to defend the right of all in this country to worship as they see fit.  To imply that I was willing to fight for only Christians incenses me.  I am not a Christian, but I would defend the rights of Christians to worship as long as they were willing to defend my right to worship, too.  I see the kind of thing in King NC as very divisive.

There are many faiths in the US military.  Everyone there swears allegiance to the US - not to some particular creed.  The whole thing implies that only Christians are patriots.  *Kate goes and throws up in the toilet and walks around trying to calm down.*

- Kate >:(

As a Christian who served in the Army during Vietnam, I feel it is an important stand to take.  I also would not object if other faiths wanted to fly their flag to HONOR fallen military.

Quote from: K8 on October 21, 2010, 05:51:16 PM
I'm a veteran.  I was willing to give my life to defend the right of all in this country to worship as they see fit.  To imply that I was willing to fight for only Christians incenses me.  I am not a Christian, but I would defend the rights of Christians to worship as long as they were willing to defend my right to worship, too.  I see the kind of thing in King NC as very divisive.

There are many faiths in the US military.  Everyone there swears allegiance to the US - not to some particular creed.  The whole thing implies that only Christians are patriots.  *Kate goes and throws up in the toilet and walks around trying to calm down.*

- Kate >:(

Exactly Kate.  And we need to be thankful that we have the right to worship as we see fit.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on October 21, 2010, 05:53:59 PM
As a Christian who served in the Army during Vietnam, I feel it is an important stand to take.  I also would not object if other faiths wanted to fly their flag to HONOR fallen military.

I served in the Army during Vietnam, too.  I had a buddy who was Navajo and another who was a Jew and a few who were of various Christian sects and some who were unaffiliated.  We were doing what we thought was right for the old red-white-and-blue.  If we started dividing into groups according to our religious practices, we would not have been a unit, working together toward one goal - a very important aspect of military life, particularly in combat.  There are enough differences between us - race, class, religion, education - but we had to put all that aside to work together.  Pointing out our differences by putting one flag or a bunch of flags over a memorial to the fallen dishonors the unity of those who fought and died for one country.

- Kate

I respectfully disagree with you, but you have your right to believe what you want.  I have friends of many different faiths, I don't see that as an issue.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on October 21, 2010, 06:05:54 PM
I respectfully disagree with you, but you have your right to believe what you want.  I have friends of many different faiths, I don't see that as an issue.

OK.  And I don't see why anyone would feel they have the right to put any flag over a war memorial that was anything other than that of the country for which they were fighting.  They weren't defending chrsitianity.  But I don't expect everyone to agree with me. 

Peace, sister.

- Kate

Sorry to but into this particular discussion, but what exactly is a Christian flag?

Who designed it? Who approved of it.

True Spacial, as far as I know there is no such thing.  If it is defined as a flag with a cross on it, which one? Lots of countries have this (eg England, Scotland, Denmark, Georgia, the list is endless).  And what about non-Americans serving in the US armed forces, as does happen? Perhaps they should have the flag of their native land flown instead?

I've calmed down and would like to try this again.

Symbols can send powerful messages, sometimes unintended ones.  A Christian flag above a veterans' memorial sends messages that only Christians served and sacrificed and that they did so for Christianity.  Everyone knows that is wrong, but the message remains.

But more powerfully, the flag singles out the service of the Christian veterans, promoting their service as better, more valuable, more honorable than that of non-Christians.  It is disrespectful to the sacrifices of non-Christians.  That may not be the intended message, but as a non-Christian veteran I can tell you that is the message I receive loud and clear.

As transgendered individuals, we often have to fight the prejudice of the cis-gendered.  How many discussions here on Susan's complain of family members or others who refuse to use the proper pronouns and names for us?  It upsets us because it tells us that who we are isn't important and that we aren't worthy of respect or consideration.

The problem with the actions in King NC is that once it was pointed out that flying a Christian flag over a war memorial was disrespectful to non-Christians, people flooded the town with Christian flags.  It is a thumb in the eye to non-Christians.  The message they are sending is that there are more of them than there are of me and so they can do whatever they want.  They are bullies clearly saying that the sensibilities and feelings of non-Christians are of no consequence because only Christians  are worthy of respect or consideration.  They are telling me that as a non-Christian I am not welcome in their town and damn me if I don't like it.

- Kate

Again I respectfully disagree with you, in no way does flying the Christian flag disrespect anyone.  I honor all and any person who served their country.

Flying the flag in no way takes away from what Every soldier (army, navy, airforce, etc) did in serving their country.

Since this thread is causing nothing but unnecessary hated, I will go ahead and lock it. 

This means to Moderators too.

Sarah L.