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bend over in the name of homeland security

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/assume-the-position-tsa-begins-new-ball-busting-patdowns.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/10/assume-the-position-tsa-begins-new-ball-busting-patdowns.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss)

QuoteYesterday, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) rolled out new nationwide rules for traveler pat-downs. Want to keep your genitalia private by avoiding the new backscatter security scanners? You can request a pat-down instead, but the TSA is intent on making sure you won't enjoy it. The new rules require agents to pay renewed attention to your crotch, and their hands won't stop until they meet testicular resistance. (No word on quite how far they'll go should you lack said testicles.)

Go head run your hand up my skirt.  But you better have boughten me dinner first.

*a bit off subject* ... Love the Halloween avatars  ;D

So, the TSA thinks it's okay to feel folks up now? As if taking a pic. of your genitals wasn't enough?

This is sounding more and more like legalized porn and sexual assault to me

Do they really need to violate average citizens in order to ready themselves to handle terrorists?

what has anyone to fear from the backscatter machines?  I say make them compulsory if I have to travel with other people.

next time I fly somewhere, I'm not gonna pack & choose the pat-down.  I'm gonna love to see the look on the TSA dude's face when he cant find my balls.   :D :D :D :D

This isn't cool... I don't want to be sexually assaulted.  If I pack, will they be able to tell the difference?

I have to fly in December, taking a boat to Hawaii just doesn't work.

Those jerks.  Unlawful search and seizure, no probable cause this should be illegal.

Anyone who starts rubbing my genitalia without my consent is getting punched in the mouth, period. I don't care if they have a badge either. This kind of airport security is not even remotely constitutional. Last time I checked when a private citizen gets on a private airplane that is a contract between the passenger and the owner of the aircraft they are flying on. Why is this a government issue? Yes, we know about 9/11 but there is more effective security than what is going on. The best security is nothing more than people being aware of their surroundings. The only real security needed other than awareness is the way it used to be: metal detectors, bag searches, basic wand downs. If that isn't effective from preventing someone from still smuggling a very small item onto the plane,  passenger and crew awareness will. As I've stated before there are plenty of dangerous items already on board an aircraft.

Benjamin Franklin said (loosely): "Anyone who is willing to trade freedom for security deserves neither." The terrorists have won--not because they took 3,000 lives on 9/11 but because their actions have resulted in 300 million Americans to willingly give up their freedoms completely changing what America is all about. I'd rather take the very small risk of something happening while living in a free society than being "safe and secure" while not even having the right to keep my genitalia free from the government's eyes. I haven't flown for awhile but I certainly will not allow anyone to touch my genitalia or photograph/scan it. I will turn around and cancel the flight if I have to. Is this what the U.S. has come to?

Quote from: Britney_413 on November 02, 2010, 02:07:42 AMThe terrorists have won--not because they took 3,000 lives on 9/11 but because their actions have resulted in 300 million Americans to willingly give up their freedoms completely changing what America is all about.

Not only in the USA. 9/11 has also had lots of repercussion in Europe, e. g. the German government created lots of new "control-freak" laws against terrorism. Some of them have been ruled unconstitutional by our highest court in the meantime, but damage has been done by those laws which still exist. This paranoia is so ridiculous, but our conservative voters don't care about freedom as long as their government gives them the illusion of security.

I also know a couple of people who boycott going on vacation to the USA cause they don't want to feel treated like criminals by the airport security. And honestly, I wouldn't go to the USA either if that means you need to accept to get fondled.

While I really don't have a problem with the machines, I think the policy on shipments is funny.  The stuff being shipped in the hold isn't checked.  The only reason they stopped the stuff coming over this last weekend was because of intelligence from the Saudi's.

Quote from: Fencesitter on November 02, 2010, 03:32:54 AM

I also know a couple of people who boycott going on vacation to the USA cause they don't want to feel treated like criminals by the airport security. And honestly, I wouldn't go to the USA either if that means you need to accept to get fondled.

I know quite a number who won't go, for that very reason, and not just airports. I have to include myself in that.

Quote from: lilacwoman on October 30, 2010, 06:53:13 AM
what has anyone to fear from the backscatter machines?

Radiation poisoning?

It's o.k. they can scrutinize the scan all they want cuz I'll just wear tin foil underwear :)

Quote from: J.T. on October 30, 2010, 09:33:17 PM
If I pack, will they be able to tell the difference?

A transguy on youtube from the states said that he went and got stopped because basically the man stated that they noticed the thing in his genital regions wasn't attached I think that was almost a year ago. I know it's been a while since you posted that but I figured I would answer. I don't know if that for all of the machines.

There was a news item today of a Guy, I think in LA, who refused the scan and the 'pat down' and was refused to fly. And insulted to boot.
I think there should be a 'If you want to feel me I can feel you, just to make sure hands are being pro, whatever that may mean.  :laugh:'

All sorts of questions.
For guys, what happens if you get an erection? I'm very pre-op and have serious control problems, so some one puts their hand up my skirt there is no way that I will not 'react'.

Pre  or CD people wearing bras or garters?


Where is the intelligence that checking genitals will reduce terrorism.

Is this just yet another USA corporate money making thing.  We have built it. We can scare them. They will buy.

I've put off two trips to the USA because I cannot be bothered by the crap. I used to fly over, deal the business and have a day or two. Love the shops.

Easier now  to justify IC coms than visiting.


Cindy

If I am properly tucked I might insist he (? or she!!) keep feeling until we are both satisfied!!
Could take quite a while and I would have to insist that public safety takes precedence over their embarrassment!  >:-)

None of this seems to have anything to do with security. For someone to sneak a bomb through by hiding it in or near their genitals, it would have to be extremely small and therefore not as effective. I don't see how there aren't other ways of detecting hidden dangerous devices such as the old fashioned hand-wanding and metal detector walk-through machines.

Last time I checked most passenger airplanes have a cockpit door that the pilot(s) can lock if they need to. That aside if someone wants to use a weapon or explosive on a plane this can be easily stopped by other passengers and crew members doing the simplest of things: paying attention to their surroundings. The government failed us on 9/11 and is continuing to fail us with these intrusive security screenings. I think airline security would be more improved if it was left up to "we the people." If someone were to bring a gun on a plane and pull it out I would guess that plenty of passengers would easily be able to jump that person at once and take it away from them. I'd put more faith in that than I will in poorly-trained low IQ government agents keeping us safe.

I will also say it again that there plenty of objects already on board commercial aircraft accessible to passengers that are much more dangerous than the objects TSA doesn't want you to bring on the plane. A fire extinguisher for instance could be used to hit someone with. Same with heavy luggage. Plus the oxygen system and any portable tanks would be a terrorist's dream come true. Yet the government is worried about tiny and likely insignificant objects (namely drugs) that people could be hiding in their genitals. I'd be willing to bet that a huge portion of airline security is nothing more than attempts to prevent drug smuggling which is irrelevant to a safe operation of an aircraft. Security should be under the control of the owner of the aircraft either the pilot or the airliner employing the pilot. I own and drive a car. I don't have government agents forcing me to screen passengers who get in my car. I'm not required to be screened for anything to get in my own car. Cars have been proven to be dangerous and have been used many times in terrorist attacks. At the same time the government is making simple air travel a nightmare anyone could easily pack a semi truck full of explosives and crash it into a building making it as dangerous and deadly or moreso than an aircraft.

But don't listen to anything I say. I couldn't know anything. Only the government knows what is best for us. I'm ending my rant now.

Just in this morning's newspaper was an article about people being upset with the new methods at the airlines

Simple answer- consumer boycott. Might be difficult to organise, but once the airlines start to lose money they will demand a change of procedure.

Quote from: justmeinoz on November 17, 2010, 02:40:55 AM
Simple answer- consumer boycott. Might be difficult to organise, but once the airlines start to lose money they will demand a change of procedure.

hear hear...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi857.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab139%2FMiepRowan%2FwRsJ1.jpg&hash=3a4b145e9d0b3d2bb47fd9baf25d247eaefd3a38)

Quote from: Laura91 on November 17, 2010, 08:01:40 AM
It won't happen because people don't think about doing things collectively to make any sort of REAL change in this country

I agree.  People in this country are wimps.  If this kind of stuff happened anywhere else it would be illegal.  If I started feeling on one of my customer's breasts in the name of "security" I would be charged with sexual assault so fast I wouldn't even be able to finish my workday.  Yet the TSA can authorize illegal search and touching people's genitals as standard procedure?  Give me a break.  The hypocrisy in this country is astounding.  Since when is it appropriate to feel on an eight year old girl's genitals without probable cause?

What if terrorists start hiding bombs inside their body cavities?  Are we going to have agents peering up someone's urethra?  Or maybe just a quick fingering of their rectum?

Oh well, if the world is going to be ridiculous, you might as well have some fun with it.  Just hold a suggestive poise and ask the agent:  "Did you find what you were looking for?"

How do they deal with a nun? Could be tricky!

news item an hour ago:  airport police stopped a guy because his luggage showed an object with battery, wires and switch connected to a fuse. 
was the guy doing a dry run and hoping that if caught he'd get away by not having anything for the fuse to activate?

I'll be happy to stand in front of the scanners while ever there are guys like that about.

was the guy doing a dry run

Yeah right.  Thoughts like that what causes police states.

My wife and I won't even consider flying commercial anymore.  Ultimate goal is to save up and get our own plane.  No security checks to get on a private plane at a private airfield.

The terrorists have won.

That they have.  Unless is just another excuse by the government to add more control to our lives.

Well it's also blaming the flying public for what happened instead of asking some rather awkward questions of the government and exactly what's its doing with that huge defense budget, as it's sure not defending us.

this is so immoral and violating. personally, i would do the scan. what if you tuck before going into the airport? they won't be able to see any clitoris or labias that way, which could be an advantage. i would also wear a maxi pad to help keep it all in place. women need to wear those quite often, right?

Quote from: SpaceyGirl on May 10, 2011, 12:09:43 AM
this is so immoral and violating. personally, i would do the scan. what if you tuck before going into the airport? they won't be able to see any clitoris or labias that way, which could be an advantage. i would also wear a maxi pad to help keep it all in place. women need to wear those quite often, right?

Of course, with the pad in place, you can expect to get groped as soon as they finish having you scoped.  Pocket lint has been sufficient cause to grope after they finished irradiating the fares. 

Some airports still have a capacity for the informed passenger to self-select and get a good old-fashioned walk through metal detector and avoid the scope or grope. 

Sounds like a sex offender's fantasy job.

Quote from: Amy1177 on May 11, 2011, 08:59:19 AM
Sounds like a sex offender's fantasy job.

An opinion often voiced in the Travel Safety and Security forum over at FlyerTalk...if people want real stories of a potential for abuse by an arm of the US government, that would be a good starting place.  Some of the smurfs will appear to justify their jobs but they never can explain why their nonsense has yet to discover a single terrorist departing from the United States.   

I think it is just another way the government has figured out a way to further interfere with our lives and just keep that much more information on us in the name of "national security"  God forbid they actually put some of that ridiculous defense budget to something useful.

I took Amtrak to Reno and back this weekend.  Really, really pretty - Roseville to Reno is just awesome, one of the top 10 best rail trips in the world.  It was great.  No one cared about anything.  Can't really - unless your Steven Segal and there are extra special weapons aboard, and there weren't - do much with a train.  Can't evade much in a train when you think about it.  So at Amtrak they don't search my bags, they just pick them up and put them on the train like they are supposed to.  Seems so civilized.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on November 17, 2010, 11:00:50 PM
Or maybe just a quick fingering of their rectum?

I was on the receiving end of that from a urologist to check the prostate.  Not pleasant.  Confirms that I am not gay!  I'm staying on the road this summer. 
  Joelene

Quote from: tekla on May 12, 2011, 07:52:02 PM
I took Amtrak to Reno and back this weekend.  Really, really pretty - Roseville to Reno is just awesome, one of the top 10 best rail trips in the world.  It was great.  No one cared about anything.  Can't really - unless your Steven Segal and there are extra special weapons aboard, and there weren't - do much with a train.  Can't evade much in a train when you think about it.  So at Amtrak they don't search my bags, they just pick them up and put them on the train like they are supposed to.  Seems so civilized.

Wasn't the new bin laden intelligence gathered at his 'retreat' suggesting he was planning to attack USA train networks? I think it's time for USA citizens to have full body searches before they even get on the subway. Remember the London Underground got bombed.  I think the better alternative is people should by law have to travel naked. This alleviates most of the problems.  It may also tackle the obesity crisis.  But it may lead to other problems;  naked persons obesity problem was found to be due to plastic explosive, artificial clitoris/penis was found to be the triggering mechanism. Evil terrorist plot suggested that sexual intercourse during travel would be explosive. In future all travelling public will be naked and in chastity devices. Works for me. >:-)

Sorry

Cindy

Quote from: CindyJames on May 13, 2011, 03:42:21 AM
Wasn't the new bin laden intelligence gathered at his 'retreat' suggesting he was planning to attack USA train networks? I think it's time for USA citizens to have full body searches before they even get on the subway. Remember the London Underground got bombed.  I think the better alternative is people should by law have to travel naked. This alleviates most of the problems.  It may also tackle the obesity crisis.  But it may lead to other problems;  naked persons obesity problem was found to be due to plastic explosive, artificial clitoris/penis was found to be the triggering mechanism. Evil terrorist plot suggested that sexual intercourse during travel would be explosive. In future all travelling public will be naked and in chastity devices. Works for me. >:-)

Sorry

Cindy

LOL  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

But yes, the rail system was mentioned as a target

According to the news reports they were looking at derailing the trains so that they crashed where they could do the most damage. Looks like everyone will have to submit to a search everytime they go to get into their car to beat that.

I'd go naked under a floor length leather coat! >:-)

i don't know if i should refuse to go through an airport again, or if i should try it and give a piece of my mind.

You derail a train from the outside, not the inside, and at that you'd want to derail some train filled with industrial chemicals in a populated area and not a bunch of drinking tourists.  With OBL dead a lot of the fever goes out of this, and lacking some other attack I think the whole homeland security thing stays pretty much as is.