Susan's Place Transgender Resources

 :) Hi everyone Im new here, but I just wanted to introduce myself. I am extremely curious as to what other opinions are concerning this. Well I have utilized progesterone as part of my HRT regimen for about a year and a half now, but from what ive been learning progesterone may actually block estrogen receptors, is this really true because if it is it deeply disturbs me  :( and I feel like ive been taking it long enough now that I may even discontinue it, by the way im one month post orchie ( i dont know if that factors in). To be completely honest I dont see the point anymore, Im trying to lose weight and i feel like progesterone may be just standing in the way, seriously i eat like a pig afterwards and it increases my sex drive ( again deeply disturbed) :'( I would be very appreciative if some other girls could help enlighten me :)

 ;D By the way everyone, its injectable progesterone and the box just says progesterone it does not have a brand name ( such as depo-provera) ???

I use Micronized progesterone in pill form.

about almost 2 years into my transition and not seeing much result from Estro and Spiro I added Progesterone and within three weeks I had a complete reversal of feminising and came out hairy and spotty and with the raging appetite.
This was when my GP were refusing to do bloodwork as I had not yet gotten an appointmet at gender clinic -  (the attitude was: it's a lifestyle choice so there's no rush is there?  :D)
So I threw out the Progesterone and went back to Estro and Spiro and all the black hair disappeared and after about 6-8 weeks I feminised again but not to the same amount as before.
I say that the P triggered off a T surge or similar.
Blood test of natural levels of E and T ought to be done before any hormones are taken.

Hi
Not sure if this is what you want, but we all need to be regularly checked by an endocrinologist.  If we have no information we can get no no help. Your post sounds as if you are too high  on P but why is the question and it may be complicated. Seek medical help ASAP particularly if you are growing hair.

JMA

Cindy

I think it is rather a case of different people react differently. There isn't a single right answer.

I tried HRT without progesterone and felt terrible... and I never had any of the side effects that you and lilac seem to have had, so I think it may be a case of trial and error. Also as Pebbles said in another thread, that may also have been because my estrogen levels were dangerously sky high at the time, so I think its one of those things where there probably isn't a right or wrong answer.

Just go with what works for you. My current HRT regimen, or more accurately pretty well non-regimen (because amazingly I am hardly taking anything) is weird but it works for me, and now that it is being closely monitored by the doctor gives me correct blood levels and that is all that matters.

Progesterone does increase masculinity long term imo and there is enough anecdotal accounts of this shown by many many trans-women on the popular notorious yahoo group - BUT it also does round out breasts and really helps in avoiding developing 'pointy shape' boobs.

Its the opinion of that community it is best to cycle micronized progesterone for no more than 10 days a month and of course never non-micronized progesterone due to increased side effects.

With my 10 day Microgest (oral micronized progesterone) regimen I still had 0.6 testosterone after my blood test so I dont believe the side effects are apparent till its taken for more than 10 days in a row.

Also you need to take into account what anti-androgen your on. If your on Cyproterone acetate(Androcur/Siterone) then that has progesterone increasing effects and you may not want to add micronized progesterone to your regimen. Due to my extremely low T count Im on low dose of spiro just to maintain and as spiro does not have any progesterone increasing benefits thats why I cycle the microgest to help with 'roundness'.

Quote from: JasminB on November 04, 2010, 04:47:53 AM
Also you need to take into account what anti-androgen your on. If your on Cyproterone acetate(Androcur/Siterone) then that has progesterone increasing effects and you may not want to add micronized progesterone to your regimen.

Not sure where you got that info from but my now ex endo said the same thing.    After being on cypro for a few months I had my P levels checking and they were still within male range. So in my own experience I don't believe that. I then started P and my levels went to normal female range.

There are different types of P which is no doubt one of the reasons why  people get different results.... progestins are the non-bioidentical version and there are two types of progestin, one that effects testosterone levels and libido etc and another that doesn't.. which is what I'm on and recommend.
The other are the bioidentical forms which are generally much kinder to the body overall. I want to start these but they are not avail where I live yet.
If you have issues with a particular P then don't write them all off.... 1) it's just ignorant and 2) it's painful to have to see and have other people possibly think "oh it sounds horrible I shall avoid that now". You're no doubt on the first type of progestin I mentioned which is also the one most prone to problems.
You could try other forms...... or just not use it at all......though to me that's like suggesting to a natal female to start taking a P blocker. :S
Each to their own. :P

also there are plenty of threads here already full of great info on P... run a search. ;)

Quote from: Muffin on November 04, 2010, 09:37:03 AM
Not sure where you got that info from but my now ex endo said the same thing.    After being on cypro for a few months I had my P levels checking and they were still within male range. So in my own experience I don't believe that. I then started P and my levels went to normal female range.

Cyproterone acetate is a progestin, but progestins are not measured by a progesterone test. Progesterone or progestins are thought to be required for full lobeloalveolar development, which is worth considering if you want to breast feed later on. I have read a histological study of mammary tissue in transsexual women finding that persons taking cyproterone acetate did develop lobeloalveolar tissue, while people not taking it did not. The study however did not compare cyproterone to other progesterone or progestines, it didn't include information on which dosage of cyproterone the subjects used and it didn't compare the structure of the tissue to that of genetically female persons. For this reason I'd think it more safe to take progesterone than relying on the cyproterone acetate if glandular development is a priority to you.



Tippe

Whoa, wait.

Do. Not. Take. Androcur.

This product has very heavy health risks for your liver and many other body parts on top of being an uneffective progestin, compared to other progestins and micronized progesterone. Remember that Androcur is what they give sexual offenders for chemical castration.

Quote from: A on November 07, 2010, 02:22:05 PM
Whoa, wait.

Do. Not. Take. Androcur.

This product has very heavy health risks for your liver and many other body parts on top of being an uneffective progestin, compared to other progestins and micronized progesterone. Remember that Androcur is what they give sexual offenders for chemical castration.

It isn't a progestin at all - its an anti androgen.

Most UK girls are still put on it as the anti-androgen of choice. In the UK we have a rather different perspective from your side of the pond... We tend to regard spiro as rather worse than androcur.

Back when I went through in the early 80's it was the ONLY option. Yes it can damage your liver if taken for more than two or three years - but most of us suffered no ill effects and indeed in some ways it has less side effects than Spironalactone.

Furthermore for those of us who took it chemical castration was entirely what we wanted. :D

Do not lie to yourself. The only reason why Androcur castrates is because it's a poison - it literally kills the testicles. That much you know. But such a product, just like chimiotherapy on cancer, can't kill a part of one's body without damaging others.

I cannot recommend such a product, and neither could those from the websites I have read.

EDIT : The reason why I talked about it being a bad progestin is that it does have some progesterone-like effects that are weak. Sadly, many agree to taking it because it does this "as a bonus"...

Quote from: A on November 07, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
Do not lie to yourself. The only reason why Androcur castrates is because it's a poison - it literally kills the testicles. That much you know. But such a product, just like chimiotherapy on cancer, can't kill a part of one's body without damaging others.

I cannot recommend such a product, and neither could those from the websites I have read.

EDIT : The reason why I talked about it being a bad progestin is that it does have some progesterone-like effects that are weak. Sadly, many agree to taking it because it does this "as a bonus"...

Yet the fact remains that most UK specialist prescribe it in preference to spiro - so they obviously believe it is better. Now I am not a doctor so I can't really dispute with either you or them. My point is that depending whether the poster was in the US/Canada or the UK she would get different views. Yours is the prevailing one on your side of the Atlantic, but here in Europe you will find a different view.

So the only thing that can really be said is that there is a difference of medical opinion on this.

Anyway from a personal perspective, as I have not had any testes for the best part of 30 years, it is rather academic to me now, but the fact remains that I took it when it was almost an experimental new drug, and I am alive and well 30 years on with perfect scores on all my metabolic function tests.

Ironically I now know that I didn't need to take it at all because I was PAIS - but at the time I, and indeed my doctors, didn't know that.

PAIS, say what ? : o

Quote from: rejennyrated on November 07, 2010, 02:27:49 PM
It isn't a progestin at all - its an anti androgen.

I understand it is a progestin with anti-androgenic effects:
"Cyproterone acetate (CSA) is a powerful and persistent progestin, which acts as anti-androgen at the peripheral level. Its androgen blocking capacity causes a reduction in serum testosterone and androstenedione concentration achieved by a decrease in circulating LH levels." [http://www.hirsutism.com/hirsutism-treatments/cyproterone-acetone.shtml (http://www.hirsutism.com/hirsutism-treatments/cyproterone-acetone.shtml)]

and here is from an article in Archives of Gynecology:
"Hormonal contraception in hirsute women is preferably achieved with anti-androgenic-effective progestins deriving from 17a-hydroxyprogesterone (Moltz et al. 1979, 1980). Among these, cyproterone acetate (CPA) has proven particularly useful."
[http://www.springerlink.com/content/r42x8h156647t1x6/fulltext.pdf (http://www.springerlink.com/content/r42x8h156647t1x6/fulltext.pdf) p. 113]

QuoteMost UK girls are still put on it as the anti-androgen of choice. In the UK we have a rather different perspective from your side of the pond... We tend to regard spiro as rather worse than androcur.

Yep. Cypro is used in Denmark, Germany and Sweden too.

Quote from: A on November 07, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
The only reason why Androcur castrates is because it's a poison - it literally kills the testicles.

Ehm, no, it actually acts on the hypothalamus in the brain inhibiting production of a hormone, which controls the amount of testosterone that is produced. It causes less of this hormone in the blood, which makes the testicles less active.
On top it binds to androgen receptors in the cells in your body so the testosterone, which is left will not be as effective anymore. It also inhibits the conversion from testosterone to the more potent DHT form.

It will over time make your testicles shrink, but that is not because of poisoning them, but rather because it causes certain structures to be used less and then they shrink like your muscles do when they are not exercised.



Tippe

Quote from: A on November 07, 2010, 03:25:15 PM
PAIS, say what ? : o

Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome - a form of Intersex condition in which the body is not fully able to process testosterone and hence under virilises.

Oh and I stand corrected on the matter of whether it is a progestin. It seems that technically it may be, but as it was always represented to us as an anti-androgen that is how it is described in the UK.

Well if it's considered a progestin then sure but in my experience it didn't effect my P levels at all but it sure as heck effected my T levels. So call it what you will but personally for me, for what effect it's had on me then Ima call it an AA. Even if technically I'm wrong (compared to some "expert" or manufacturer).
Sure it may have a slight P effect but it's so small that it's not enough to have a full impact especially to the point of changing my actual P levels that show in blood tests. And for that reason 1) I don't feel comfortable calling it a P...2) Taking another form of P actually does have an effect on my body and moods etc, unlike androcur alone. But I can only go by my own personal experience.

I have taken Spiro and my body didn't like it so what am I to do? Androcur has done wonders for me... I have no visible or noticeable side effects? But according to you I should be taking something else because doing so........................ makes me a sex offender ?    :O
lols...... pretty close to putting you on ignore... but it's a sunny day today so I'll hold off ...for now ;)

Hehe I think a lot of people think that when you go on Androcur/Siterone your planning to stay on it?

Certainly not the case for most.....After you get through 2 months at a relatively high dose(what they recommend for sex offenders) you really don't need it anymore....

Your 2 little boy parts or at least mine shrunk considerably(significantly more than when on spiro) and have now swapped back to spiro to maintain low levels. I have had no size increase/T increase since. (0.6% testosterone last blood test)

So yeah basically nukes your' down-stairs' quickly, for me that was handy as cutting down on the amount of spiro I have to take now means less trips to the bathroom all night ;p. I wouldn't stress about damage at only 2 months of daily use and see it as a positive thing not to have to take as much daily meds now and my endocrinologist agrees.

Guess im a strong supporter for the short term use of Cyproterone acetate! :) hehe