Susan's Place Transgender Resources

So I've been going through and reading as much as I can, on these forums, and through the wiki and links sections here on Susan's. Last night I came across an article (http://www.mtftransition.com/t-girl.htm) in the links section that goes to a site titled, "A Realistic Guide to the Transitional Journey". And wow, it feels overwhelmingly negative.

I've only read the first section so far but here are some choice quotes:

QuoteTranssexualism destroys everything. It takes away wives from husbands and husbands from wives, children from their fathers... It destroys families and friendships, it takes away all jobs and sources of income, your life insurance, your medical and dental insurance, your eyeglass insurance, your retirement, your house, your home, your everything. Everything you knew and loved, were once comfortable with, were happy with. It takes it all.

QuoteYou must build a brand new life with no tools, no money, no help, no family and no friends... About 75% of marriages can withstand an affair, the odds seriously decrease when the one partner cheats with the same sex. But one out of a thousand or so marriages can withstand a transsexual partner... if that.

QuoteOf the millions of men who attempt the transition, less than 15% make it, and that 15% certainly does not have it easy... A repeated truth in the media and among the circles of professionals that care for us through the transition is starkly ugly... up to 50% of us end up committing suicide.

QuoteYou shouldn't transition if you have pictures of yourself on the net that are sexual in nature or of you in a hotel room... if female clothing turns you on... if you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group... if you are "out and proud" (lesbians don't count)... if you took a bastardization of a male name for your female name...if you took something like "Luvs" or "Aphrodite" or some other overly-feminine, ridiculous, childish word or name as part or all of your new name... if you hang out in drag bars... if your friends hang out in drag bars... if you have a "drag mother"... if you go out in 6" heels and mini skirts... if you own 6" heels and mini skirts... if you do not own a pair of jeans and sneakers... if you can't have sex naked... if you think playing with your breasts after they grow would be "cool"... if you want to be a porn star or an escort after you transition... if you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards... if you still own a single item of male clothing... if you display photos of the "old" you... if you still have a single piece of your male life intact... if you still go out as a male for any reason now... if you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS... if you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond... if you think your voice doesn't need work... if you consider yourself a "transgender", or label yourself as anything other than a woman... if you describe yourself as "sexually confused", a "freak", or un-definable... if you plan on being a transsexual rather than a woman... if you want to keep your penis... if you think it will be easy... if you start a fight when you get clocked... if you haven't seen a psychiatrist, a doctor, and a lawyer yet... if you get your hormones without a legitimate prescription while under a doctors care... if you want more out of the transition than what any other woman out there has now... if you think transitioning will make you happy...

I've edited out a few items that are slightly more graphic, but wow. I don't know really what to think of this. On one hand I think it's a great article as topic for discussion, and certainly I think the author really wants to keep people from making mistakes and rushing into transition - but I'm not sure a lot of these 'warnings' are true. But since I'm not there, it's hard to know what to think. In short, it doesn't actually sound realistic to me, despite the title.

The writer is well versed and quite capable of manipulating the reader.
I came across that when I first came out and alot of it just sits wrong with me.

Make your own descission about transition. Dont go by some check list someone else wrote. Only YOU can know your mind and heart, we can only guess. You are the one who has to live in that body, so it is your call.

I will be completely honest and take probably a very unpopular position in saying I can relate too and agree with probably the majority of that article (which I will confess not to have read most of, it's 3am here and it's quite long, what I have read I have agreed with for the most part).

In trying to be accepting of everyone, we have ironically made believing in the mainstream to be unacceptable.

It's politically incorrect in the transgender world to suggest that anybodies self perception is not the truth as they believe it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with ANY way you choose to live provided it causes no deliberate, avoidable and serious harm to anyone else.

I do however reject attempts to group myself in with those that I see as being clothing infatuated, and for whom their 'almost' (i say almost because i kNOW this is not the right word, but I can't think of a better one so I apologist) fetishistic desires drives their choices in transition. They and I'm sure people here will be along shortly to dismiss any such notion by suggesting that a large number of more mainstream people are like them, by warping the discussion into the loosest most intangible definitions possible.

For example, by suggesting that most women are 'clothing obsessed', despite the obviousness that the two phenomenon they are comparing are distinctly different.

As I said, I have no problem with anyone living however they choose provided it does not cause harm as I mentioned before, but I don't approve of this persecution of transexuals (and I hate that term, but again, like fetishistic, it's just easier) who don't quite fit into the perhaps more alternative groups.

I don't want to cause offense to anyone, but I'm not sure it can be avoided without simply not saying anything. And this is a topic I think needs to be discussed.

I'm not against grouping together otherwise very different groups for political power (i.e. lgbt), I think it'd be better if we could all get along and accept our differences. The irony being that the transgender community for lack of a better word has created an atmosphere of intollerating difference where that difference is by NOT being quite as different as its members.

I don't think you shouldn't transition for the reasons listed in the article. I think you should transition if it will better your life, and I think many HAVE transitioned and ARE better for it in spite of defying that list.

I defy the list in a few ways, and I would challenge anyone to tell me that I shouldn't have transitioned.

Quoteif you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group

I do that, it's run by a youth service and I do it because I enjoy talking to people with similar, and similar but still very different backgrounds to mine. People naturally gravitate to groups of similar people when they can't quite fit in with the majority (which is of course, a lot of the population).

Drug users hang out with other drug users, service men hang out with other service men, nerds hang out with other nerds, this isn't always the case, but it's hardly surprising or uncommon.

Quoteif you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards...

This one is quite stupid as of course many of us have significant problems with our families that are out of our control after transition.

I hated being around my family well before transition.

Quoteif you still own a single item of male clothing

I still do, I simply don't care, lol, I don't tend to wear most of it, but I don't have any aversion to male clothing any more than I have any infatuation with female clothing. I wear what I feel suits my personality.

Quoteif you get your hormones without a legitimate prescription while under a doctors care

This is probably the stupidest on the list, I won't even start with that one.

And I'm sure there are others for whom much more of the list applies and who would also say they are happy with having transitioned too.

QuoteBeing a transsexual is by far the most difficult predicament a person can be born into. It is the worst birth defect to have. It is much worse than being born handicapped, a minority race, gay or lesbian, or being too short or too fat. Nothing compares.

I'm sorry, but I had to stop reading after this.

While I completely understand where this person is coming from on mostly everything that she said, it's quite clear that this is the writing of someone that is angry with the world.

Quote from: DNaraku on November 05, 2010, 12:24:16 PM
I'm sorry, but I had to stop reading after this.

While I completely understand where this person is coming from on mostly everything that she said, it's quite clear that this is the writing of someone that is angry with the world.

No wonder I can relate to it.  ;D

I wouldn't say that being a transexual is the 'worst' predicament a person can be born into. But for my experiences of it, there's not many whom I wouldn't trade circumstances with.

I would say the writer of the article has an agenda.  I disagree with the tone of the article while agreeing there will be Many problems you have to deal with.

Not all marriages fail and when they do fail it isn't just the gender issues that cause the failure.  There were probably problems before hand.

Not all jobs will be lost, it is much easier today than it was 25 years ago (or more).  You continue your life from where you transition, complete with all the skills you developed beforehand.

My sister and brother both accept me with no reservations.  My spouse and I have managed to work our way through this (not without tears, fights, difficulty, etc) we just had our 44th anniversary.

For many of us even with all the difficulties it is something we have to do.  Each person has to evaluate their own life and reasons for transitioning.

Sarah L.

The author starts out with a realistic premise:  It's true that transitioning can lead to divorce, job loss, loss of income, etc.  By stating this hard truth, she gains the reader's trust and stirs up emotions.

But wait!

Her statistics are WAY off.  Perhaps invented by the author for the sake of the article?   

Being trans is obviously NOT the worst disorder someone can be born with, and to say so is to blatantly disrespect all the people who are living with far more serious disorders.

The last paragraph quoted in the OP is nonsensical.  Maybe she meant "because" instead of "if"?  Did she really mean that having attended a support group should preclude one from transitioning?  Where are her arguments to back up these far-stretched assertions?  Furthermore, the grammar is terrible.

It looks like this article gets off to a somewhat sound start and then degenerates into raving lunacy.  Not to be taken seriously.

I have a twisted pastime I look up other nasty conditions and play "Would you rather?"

I'd rather be a Transsexual than be a Psychopath
I'd rather be a Transsexual than be a convicted Pedophile
I'd rather be a Transsexual than have Pancreatic cancer
I'd rather be a Transsexual than have Fibrodysplasia ossificans progressiva

However
I'd rather have treatment resistant Schizophrenia than be a Transsexual.
I'd rather loose an arm or be a paraplegic than be a Transsexual.
I'd rather be blind than be a transsexual.
I'd rather Have leukemia than be Transsexual. (It's never good when you envy a cancer patient.)

I disagree with that book s/he gets loads about hormones wrong. It's evident that they don't have any clue about them so why should they advise others about a course of action?

Are you kidding? That last section basically said, "don't transition under any circumstances whatsoever!" I stopped reading it about half way. It's complete nonsense. The writer is correct on some points, but that last paragraph is silly.

Edit: I decided to elaborate some more on it.

Quoteif you go to meetings at a crossdresser club, a transsexual club, or a gay rights group

I plan to go to a trans support group. Why? Because I'd like to have some support.

Quoteif you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards...

The writer sounds angry and hurt. Realistically this won't be possible.

Quoteif you consider yourself a "transgender", or label yourself as anything other than a woman...

A trans- label is something most of us have to live with, unless we pass extremely well, move away and go deep stealth, which I think is a bad idea. We need to tell our would-be partners before getting into a relationship, How would you do that without using some sort of trans label. I do consider myself a woman, but the labels are still necessary.

Quoteif you still own a single item of male clothing...

Most of us who are transitioning still have men's clothes, that's why it's called a "TRANSITION"; Because it's a process. I plan to go full time eventually and when I do, I'll give away all of my men's clothing.

Quoteif you still have a single piece of your male life intact...

I still have all of my friends and family, they are all supportive. They are from my "male life" should I not transition?

Quoteif you do not plan on, are working towards, or already have tried to get GRS...

It's expensive, not all of us can afford it. I want it, but it doesn't mean I can get it.

Quoteif you do not have a plan that will see you through to stealth and beyond...

Stealth, to me, seems like a recipe for disaster.

Quoteif you think transitioning will make you happy...

Why transition at all if not to be happy? Most, if not all of us are unhappy with our past or current situation being the wrong gender. We transition to try to fix this problem and find our own happiness.

And a the vast majority of that seems to just be anger.

OK. I've dragged myself through the first chapter of this incredable rant. (And it is a rant). It is incredably tireing. Reminiscent of a lecture by someone who wants to talk long anf hard so that you can't think.

The only statement of any note, which I've so far found is the question of a 40 year old hoping to become a hot teenage girl.

If anyone has any notions of regaining their youth, then they will definately be disappointed.

I get the impression that the writer is a post-op transgendered person whose life hasn't worked out as they hoped. Boo Hoo.

Now that is very sad. But when things don't work out the sensible people look for a new direction.

The writer tries to emphasise biological realities then social realities. Well, Duh!

QuoteWhile out, you meet others like you, and you are encouraged. And you begin having more sex behind her back. You are out, dressed in drag, going to bars, having sex, and acting like a woman, and your wife, who married a man, is home relaxing, reading a good book or watching a movie, patiently waiting for her "man" to come home from the gay bars.

This is the most telling section in the whole first chapter. This person cheated on their wife.

Sorry mate. You made a promise when you got married. You took the goods. Then, when it suited you, you cast your promises aside and started sleeping around.

Quotewell, I will let the statistics speak for me. About 75% of marriages can withstand an affair, the odds seriously decrease when the one partner cheats with the same sex. But one out of a thousand or so marriages can withstand a transsexual partner...

Now I wonder where these figures came from. It seems to me that very few marriages can withstand cheating. It's not an affair, it's cheating. It lying. It's breaking your promise, behind someone's back, because you lack the integrity, the decenty and the self respect to say something first.

75% of marriages can withstand cheating? I don't think so. (Now I'm ranting. This has really boiled me up).

OK. I'm gonna leave this here and read the next two chapters later.

I'm really enjoying reading the many thoughts and opinions on this piece. Thank you for adding your voice and experience.

Several people have said, "only you know if transition is right for you, you have to be the one who decides." I totally agree with this, also I think the author might agree.

What I suppose I am left with after reading this is, "are these things true?" The author makes it seems as though all (or perhaps the majority) of TS who transition end up working in prostitution. That those without a job cannot succeed because of the need for emotional and social connection and not to sink into depression. That your brain changes so much that it's impossible for maintain any friendships or relationships with people before. That unless you move to a new town, and go into stealth that you can't ever possibly be happy, and that if you think you CAN stay in your town, and maintain relationships from your past life, and live openly as a TS (as opposed to stealth) that you're smoking something and transitioning for the wrong reason.

It's like the author feels that this is the experience anyone will have through transition, and says repeatedly that the "story of all transsexuals is the same".

So this leaves me wondering about what things within the article are true, and what things are just meant to scare people away? Clearly the author seems to want to keep people from making the wrong choice - but it feels like she's trying to do it with some half-truths.

I read it a while back and I thought that it had to have been written by someone who never could make it.

But if it is frightening, then one needs to think long and hard about transition.

As it was once said. " If you think you can do something else, do it.  If you are not prepared to lose everything , DO NOT TRANSITION"

Quoteif you can't visit with every single one of your co-workers, friends, family, children, parents, or anyone else on the planet for that matter, afterwards...

QuoteThe writer sounds angry and hurt. Realistically this won't be possible.

Most of what the writer says is garbage, but I will say that this bit is important.  I think that you're misinterpreting her intention by assuming that she meant "don't transition if you're going to lose friends/family."  What I think she's trying to say is that if you want to transition, but never want to present to family, friends, co-workers etc as the new gender, you should reconsider, e.g. if you want hormones and surgery but still want to work as a male, it isn't the right option. 

I kind of see the point to this kind of negativity and all of the 'if you can do something else, do it', stuff, but what about the damage caused by trying to do the something else when in reality, there is nothing else that you can do.

I would rather be transsexual than a hopeless alcoholic
I would rather be transsexual than a drug addict
I would rather be transsexual than suicidally depressed
I would rather be transsexual than to isolate myself from everyone who has ever cared about me because I hate the world and I hate myself.

And like all to many transsexual people in and out of the closet, I do know what both feels like.

If she's meant to be a 'Sister' [sic]..... she sounds pretty terminally depressed to me....

And I've managed a very successful stealth life to date.... so most of what she espouts post-op is pure b#llocks.....

I would add this might be from her terribly limited experience....

Though tis true.... many of us tire of the scene stuff so to speak.... and seek out friendships with those that know not of our 'other' pasts...

As its just simpler.... and more fun.....lol

So fret not and find your own way and focus....

But she's right on that we're all uniquely different.... and no one box fits all....

.

Quote from: Madelyn on November 05, 2010, 01:11:02 PM
It's like the author feels that this is the experience anyone will have through transition, and says repeatedly that the "story of all transsexuals is the same".

So this leaves me wondering about what things within the article are true, and what things are just meant to scare people away? Clearly the author seems to want to keep people from making the wrong choice - but it feels like she's trying to do it with some half-truths.

At the risk of returning to my previous rant.

QuoteWhile out, you meet others like you, and you are encouraged. And you begin having more sex behind her back. You are out, dressed in drag, going to bars, having sex, and acting like a woman, and your wife, who married a man, is home relaxing, reading a good book or watching a movie, patiently waiting for her "man" to come home from the gay bars.

This person can't take responsibility.

That jumped into whatever and it didn't turn out to be the dream of teeen girl sex they'd hoped for.

Essentially, it may be true. Equally it may be some story written by some psycho who has a thing against transgened people.

Either way, everyone makes decisions in their life. W take a new job, we get married, we try an investment, we run across a busy street.

If it goes bad, we learn than pick ourselves up.

This person doesn't seem ready to take that responsibility.

There are some good points mixed in with all the ranting, she speaks truly about hormones and the dangers of them.

However in general she speaks in too many absolutes.  As if what she experienced is the only way it can be and that is just not true there are too many success stories out there that disprove this.  I guess she is truly trying to warn people not to take this lightly but seriously would anyone do this if they didn't feel they have to?

The one thing that scared me was the percentages, out of all who start transition only 15% complete it?

it is actually a very old piece of writing when things were a lot more difficult and therapists and hormones were harder to come by.
I'd take the millions of men who start transition as being a bit of an exaggeration?  are there really so many wannabes around?
I had some very angry exchanges earlier this year with a person who transitioned as a teenager and did hold to a lot of the ideas listed because she said that if we didn't transition as puberty hit us we were not TS.
Nothing I or anyone else could say about lack of info or even never hearing the word transsexual would alter her mind about us being all sorts of things but not TS.
She never met or knew any such a thing as a FtM either.

I forced myself to read the whole thing early on, as it was about the most grim depiction of the process ahead that I could find.

I proceeded with transition feeling that the document, while pointing out some of the worst case scenarios, was the personal reflection of someone who, like me, felt compelled to go through this despite it all.

In the several months since transition began, I have lost a very great deal, and transition itself has exposed me to much of this loss. It's just a fact.

But, although I wish I could have never been saddled with dysphoria, I carry so much of it with me that I see no compelling alternative to the basic path on which I find myself.

At the end of the day, I like the idea of people on the threshold of transition reading this document (or some similarly dire account) before committing to the path. And in doing so, consider one's preparation against the worst of it.

If the worst never comes, great! But if it does, and one has laid the foundation to meet these problems head on, that's all the better.

Quote from: Sadie on November 05, 2010, 04:52:32 PM
There are some good points mixed in with all the ranting, she speaks truly about hormones and the dangers of them.

Not really.

We hype up the dangers of hormones and antiandrogens to discourage self-medicating because the philosophy of harm reduction and free access to information is discouraged around these parts, despite it being the trans equivalent of abstinence only sex education and "just say no" drug policies.

Fact is... none of the estrogen medications are particularly dangerous in terms of risk of negative impact on health when taken as relative to other medications. Of the antiandrogens, cyprotone is dangerous, spiro less so.

And none are particularly dangerous for most people at sane dosages.

But that's politically incorrect so we pretend that they're more likely than not as good as cyanide without the wisdom of the very same doctors we complain about the incompetence of every day.  ::)

As a nurse I can say that is just not true. Hormones can lead to some serious side effects, the possibility of blood clots in the legs and lungs are nothing to play around with.  Every drug has side effects and more people die every year from the side effects of prescription drugs than illegal ones.

Quote
Of the millions of men who attempt the transition, less than 15% make it, and that 15% certainly does not have it easy... A repeated truth in the media and among the circles of professionals that care for us through the transition is starkly ugly... up to 50% of us end up committing suicide.

I didn't read the whole thing because this quote leapt out at me.  It is obviously BS.  Men don't transition to become women; women in male bodies and male social roles transition to be women.  The success rate is far higher, and the suicide rate far lower.  I think the rest of the article can likewise be dismissed as nonsense.

- Kate

Quote from: Sadie on November 05, 2010, 06:56:13 PM
As a nurse I can say that is just not true. Hormones can lead to some serious side effects, the possibility of blood clots in the legs and lungs are nothing to play around with.  Every drug has side effects and more people die every year from the side effects of prescription drugs than illegal ones.

Which we all know is because not that many people take illegal drugs compared to virtually everyone who takes prescription drugs.

Yes there are an increased risk of clots. Most always in people of older age and less physical well being.

My doctor doesn't even bother testing me for blood clot risks because of my age.

And when compared to most other drugs, and I'm including a LOT of prescription only drugs, hormones are pretty benign.

Sorry but as far as I can see the article is mainly corrosive and elitist bunk!

Yes the basic point that you should not delude yourself about the limits of what can be achieved is valid, but this is laid on with a trowel.

Besides when you get to the end the authors true colours as an elitist trans are royally displayed for all to see.

Apparently she and her select "sisters" are real. They somehow escape the logic, that they lay down for everyone else, that dictates that total stealth is impossible because despite this they pass so well that they are no longer deluded but have instead have magically become real women. Anyone who lives by their rules and agrees with them can also be considered real. The rest will always be failures.

Well sorry but it simply doesn't work like that. Who really cares what these anonymous little nobodies think anyway. I certainly don't. It's Elitist rubbish. Please don't waste your time on it.

QuoteAll men, and I mean all men, want to feel like a woman, and try it to some extent over the course of their lives. Most will crossdress, most will have anal sex with men, inanimate objects, and even women adorned with strap-ons.

Yeah, I don't think that "most" men have anal sex with other men.  She has to be pulling these "facts" out of her proverbial tuchus. 

QuoteOf the millions of men who attempt the transition, less than 15% make it, and that 15% certainly does not have it easy... A repeated truth in the media and among the circles of professionals that care for us through the transition is starkly ugly... up to 50% of us end up committing suicide.

Quote from: K8 on November 05, 2010, 07:04:59 PM
I didn't read the whole thing because this quote leapt out at me.  It is obviously BS.  Men don't transition to become women; women in male bodies and male social roles transition to be women.  The success rate is far higher, and the suicide rate far lower.  I think the rest of the article can likewise be dismissed as nonsense.

- Kate

Yes Kate. That was another of the highly questionable statistics.

But I got the impression that this person just feels they made a mistake and is trying to rationalise it.

Some will regret it. Some will suffer unwanted effects from medications. Some will have bad, long trm effects from any surgery.

Most don't.

Like Sadie, I was also a nurse and have read many drug data sheets. it was part of my job to memorise information about any drugs any of my patients were using. The side effects of any drug are really quite frightening.

Here's the listed side effects of paracetamol for example: Rashes, Blood disorders, acute pancreatitis, liver damage, renal damage.

Here in th UK, all the data sheets for licienced drugs are contained in a book called the British National Formulary. It's published about every month or so.

These are just the extreme cases. It doesn't mean that, when you give little Johnny a paracetamol to for his imaginary stomach ache, he's going to get any of them.

Now to back Sadie up, the side effects from hormons are more common than for paracetamol. But provided you only use properly prescribed medicine, from reputable pharmacies and attend regular medical checkups, the chances of suffering any side effects are very small.

Quote from: spacial on November 05, 2010, 08:25:03 PM
Yes Kate. That was another of the highly questionable statistics.

But I got the impression that this person just feels they made a mistake and is trying to rationalise it.

Some will regret it. Some will suffer unwanted effects from medications. Some will have bad, long trm effects from any surgery.

Most don't.

Like Sadie, I was also a nurse and have read many drug data sheets. it was part of my job to memorise information about any drugs any of my patients were using. The side effects of any drug are really quite frightening.

Here's the listed side effects of paracetamol for example: Rashes, Blood disorders, acute pancreatitis, liver damage, renal damage.

Here in th UK, all the data sheets for licienced drugs are contained in a book called the British National Formulary. It's published about every month or so.

These are just the extreme cases. It doesn't mean that, when you give little Johnny a paracetamol to for his imaginary stomach ache, he's going to get any of them.

Now to back Sadie up, the side effects from hormons are more common than for paracetamol. But provided you only use properly prescribed medicine, from reputable pharmacies and attend regular medical checkups, the chances of suffering any side effects are very small.

Paracetamol is a good example of how relatively safe hormones are. Paracetamol will really mess you up if you overdose on it, and an overdose on it is actually not that much, and it WILL cause serious harm NOW, not possibly years from now.

One point I call the author out on.

Spironolactone is used to treat congestive heart failure. It's not hard on the heart. Hyperkalemia is hard on the heart, not Spiro.

That article is so full of obvious contradictions, it's stupid. It's not written particularly well either  :P

I am finding that as I continue through transition it is best to take everyone else's experiences with a pinch of salt, not because their wrong, but because they are someone else's experiences, not yours. I learnt very quickly that everyone is different and everyone approaches things in different ways and we all want different things. All you can do is take heart from the good stuff that happens to you and other, offer support when things are dark and stick on some Sex Pistols and offer a two fingered salute to anyone who tells you how you should live your life.

Indeed the author seems to violate the intended message. She stresses "transitioning sucks" but then mentions, "but it could be different for some...SOME." Only then to follow up with, "It sucks princess, it sucks really bad."

I do like her analogy of the thoroughbred horse in a racetrack being compared to a closeted TG. Though I'm not sure it fits 100% since a lot of TGs do not even realize their ordeal until >40....

Wow... I was reading that very article when I was abroad recently and got through the whole of the first chapter and part of the second chapter before I got so distressed that I couldn't read on! I wanted to make a post about it then and there, but I had no internet connection (I downloaded the e-book webpage before I left) and then I kind of forgotten about it after I deleted it.

It seems like that the author is stating that unless you are on the verge of pointing a gun to your head, then don't transition. I felt it was a really extreme article that is best not read, it sure freaked the hell out of me at the time. We all have different degree of gender dysphoria and only you know in your heart what is the best course to take.

I think someone really ought to contact the author about the validity and purpose of the article; whether it's to help or to scare off potential TS about transition. I personally think the latter is more true!

@ Everybody:

That article quoted to start this thread makes its point.  From where I sit, there is a certain measure of truth to what it says.  However, one can say much the same thing about becoming an entrepreneur.  Think I'm nuts?  Try it and see ... especially if you fail at it a time or two.  You'll effectively loose everything a transsexual loses in transition. 

The average person in the street neither knows about nor cares much about becoming an entrepreneur.  Even many people in business are freelancers, solo acts, mom & pop business and actually have built themselves a job rather than a real business.  My point?  Real entrepreneurs often fail ... more than once or even twice ... until they learn how it's done and make it.  By that time, they've lost damned near everything there is to lose ... just like us.

Okay, consider the article quoted to start this thread as THE POINT.  Okay, fine.  Cool.

Now, please, consider these 2 below-listed websites as THE COUNTERPOINT.  Everyone of you on here should take the time to read these profiles of SUCCESSFUL transitions.  Read them all.  Thinking about transitioning?  Already transitioning?  Thinking about bagging it?  Before you bag it, take a look at what TRANSITION SUCCESS ... looks like, sounds like, feels like!  My very own doctor who oversees my HRT is profiled on one of these websites!  Still wanna bag it?  Keep reading.  As you do, in your mind's eye and in your soul, FEEL their success.  Sweet?  Ooohhh, YES!  You bet it is! 

Read on:

Amazing transsexual profile website Number One ... Lynn Conway's website:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TSsuccesses/TSsuccesses.html)

Amazing transsexual profile website Number Two ... Karen Serenity's website:

http://www.karenserenity.com/OldSerenity/main.htm (http://www.karenserenity.com/OldSerenity/main.htm)

Some of you will have seen these before, I'm sure.  Newbies, check 'em out.  These two websites steeled my determination to GO FOR IT.  Am I losing my figurative, if not literal, ass?  Yes!  Will it be worth it?  Yes!

Entrepreneurs who are true entrepreneurs often fail, more than once, and loose EVERYTHING we loose ... EVERYTHING!  Yet, they get out there and hustle and hustle and hustle ... until THEY MAKE IT!

Why?  It's worth it to them.  There are different pays-out and pays-off to each entrepreneur ... power ... control ... wealth ... freedom ... influence ... yada, yada, yada.  Think about it:

*  Who owns major-league sports teams?
*   Who owns the banks and insurance companys?
*   Who makes the rules?

The list goes on and on ... ENTREPRENEURS. 

The Point for Them:

It was worth losing their figurative assess a time or two or more to gain these things.

The Point for Us:

It's worth losing our figurative assess while transitioning to gain what we want.

I'm losing everything myself right now ... one by one ... and may end up in the street for a while ... no lie.  BUT!  I shall persevere. 

What's it worth to ya, honey?  What's it REALLY worth to ya?

It takes the gumption of a true entrepreneur to transition.  The rewards ARE worth it!

Just my own opinion, but I rest my case.  Each gal is welcome to disagree.  Onward, honies!

;)   Lacey Lynne

hi everybody

the article looks very depressing and the truth is that it is a long and hard road to walk
But the inner pleace and happiness at the end of the road is amazing.
Reading the article it looks that there is a choice. You start transition or do not start it
Well, in my opinion there is no choice, when you feels like a transsexual you have to do it whatever the consequenses are.
and it is true, some people are losing friends, work and family but there are several people how have support from friends and family.
So, it's all very individual and when you are a transsexual there are only two options for transition, being unhappy for the rest of your life or commit suicide.
this does n't look a very good idea for me.

I wish everybody how wants to start transition a lot af wisdom and strenght

hugs annette

{Quote}
Everything you knew and loved, were once comfortable with, were happy with. It takes it all.   

The point is, that we are not comfortable and that is why we transition.  We are not happy with it.  I assume she is only referring to material things.   However I would like to question what it is we actually lose?  Do we really lose family if they cannot accept who we are?  Another way of putting this is, would we really want to hangout with people that are actually shallow underneath it all?  So I guess in her eyes, it is better to live a supposed happy life of being ignorant to everyone's true natures than to actually see things as they really are. 

I would also disagree with the handicapped thing.  I am handicapped with CP, I would gladly trade my disability to be reborn with my knowledge of dysphoria at a young age.  That might sound crazy but at least I could do all the physical things anyone else can do, so I would eventually be able to get help with my emotional issue all on my own without having to rely on someone else to be a physical mediator.  I would rather be a TS than be blind or deaf.  You might be born unable to move your arms or legs or have none at all.  I take being a TS over that.  Other than feeling of being perceived as the wrong gender, we can live pretty normal lives.  As long as you know who you are, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  I get the worries of passing, but don't be fooled by this author. 
Granted it does seem in these statements I have just made to downplay the turmoil that we TS's go through.  By no means am I trying to make our condition seem small.  I would rather lose all of my riches than lose something physical to where I cannot do anything for myself.  There is always other jobs.  True, it can lead to a setback in income and you cannot live as luxurious as you would like.  Sure, you might have to make new friends.  I ask again, would you rather be happy with people that discriminate and are prejudice who don't know anything about being different?   

I actually did read all three chapters in entirety about two months ago. I found it here:

http://www.mtftransition.com/t-girl.htm (http://www.mtftransition.com/t-girl.htm)

There is a lot of stereotyping and generalizations in the article but I do actually agree with the overall points the author is making. If you read it in entirety from beginning to end and especially the introducion/disclaimer then you can read it in its proper context. I don't agree with everything the author is stating and sure it is a depressing article.

The impression I got from the author is that this piece is designed as a stern warning to those considering an MTF transition to think very clearly about the choices they make and the possible consequences. It also appears to be designed to weed out the true TSs from those who fantasize about being TS. The author states in the disclaimer that by titling the article "So you wanna be a t-girl" was designed to lure those fantasizing about being TS to the site. It appears to generally not even be designed for TSs but to steer those away from transition who really shouldn't be transitioning in the first place. The author does state repeatedly throughout the article that "women are born, they are not created" referring to MTF TSs being "a woman born in a man's body."

The reason I agree with a lot of these views in the article is due to what I have seen in the bar scene time and time again. As ->-bleeped-<- is starting to get more accepted in society, a lot of people are now seeing being TS as some type of trendy thing. You have "->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s" trying to hook up with TS women (pre-ops of course). A lot of people calling themselves TS are really just glorified crossdressers who want big boobs yet prefer to use their pensies to penetrate men. In fact most of the self-identified TSs I run into at bars love their penises, use them regularly, do not want hormones because of their effects on libido, and have no intention of SRS. Note that I'm not referring to TS people overall but specifically the ones I run into at the typical GLBT bars in my city which are hopefully NOT overall representative of TS people.

There is a lot of confusion about ->-bleeped-<- often among trans people themselves. You have the drag queen performers, crossdressers, self-identified TSs who really just want to dress like girls and have boobs yet still have sex as men, and then those who actually meet the definition of TS by medical standards and transition completely to the best of their ability. There is nothing wrong with any of these different types of TG people and I think the diversity is great and it is part of what makes us human. I don't think there should be any hostile reactions between one type of TG person trying to make the other type somehow less legitimate which often happens. Unfortunately, due to this diversity there is a serious amount of misinformation out there. Thus, you have a lot of people calling themselves TS and transitioning at least to some level when it might not be wise. Simply getting boobs and throwing on a dress doesn't make one TS. This bar crowd I mentioned generally has not transitioned according to the Standards of Care, many of which have gotten the boobs in Mexico or taken direct silicone injections from the street, taken some hormones from the street, and find employment in sex work, pornography, and drag shows for a very prolonged period of time (10 years or more) with no intention of sensible and normal employment or any type of respectable lifestyle.

So when someone comes along who is questioning their own gender identity it can be rather dangerous for them to run into these types of bar girls who will likely give them terrible advice. I think the article does serve its purpose of trying to weed out the non-TS types of TG people (crossdressers, those with fantasies/fetishes, etc.) from a transition and those who really are women trapped in mens' bodies who should transition. Simply put, the article isn't really written for us so it doesn't apply to us and is meant to scare off those who shouldn't transition in the first place.

Before anyone gets upset with me, I'm not saying anyone is or is not a TS and am leaving that up to the medical definitions. But I've been around the bar crowd at GLBT venues long enough to know that there is a ton of nonsense out there and sometimes generalizations are necessary as long as you are smart enough to know there are exceptions to the rule. I will personally warn others to be extremely wary of taking any type of advice from self-identified TS people who meet most or all of the following conditions:

1. Have no intention of SRS, enjoy their male organs, use them regularly, and do not want a drop in male libido

2. Self-medicate/self-surgery: hormones from the streets, silicone injections from the streets, self-castration, boobs and other ops. from other countries where the standards of care is not required

3. Revolve their life around being TS: perform at drag bars in drag shows, make sex work and porn a lifestyle and profession over the long term (not just as a temporary measure to put food on the table), and treat TS as something trendy and to show off, identify more as a TS than just as a woman which is what an MTF TS acutally is

4. Go for years on end with no sense of a normal lifestyle, no lawful employment or profession or intention of getting a job, instead lives a life expecting sugar daddies to take care of them, trouble with the law repeatedly, does not and has no plans/intentions of living a financially independent lifestyle with own income, own apartment/house, own things bought and not just given to them

Sad to say I run into far more "TS" people who fall into these categories (met mostly at bars) than just normal women who live normal lives who simply have a man's body they are in the process (or already have) of changing to make them complete. These bar people would do well at reading that article because they probably need to be woken up as they do not meet the definition of TS by medical standards and are giving out horrible advice to those who really are TS and need help. Sadly a lot of people don't even understand what TS even means. Again, they think that the only difference between a drag queen and a TS is that the latter has a boob job. I constantly get upset at these bar "TS" who constantly try to drill me on things like clothes and makeup as if that is what being trans is all about. Luckily I don't see much of this nonsense here at Susan's but it does occasionally slip through here too. Enough said.