Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I found a place that does T. I just gota get a referral from my doctor. Hopefully she will refer me.  I think she will. I hope she will. I'm so excited I found a place so close by.  It's probably like 10 minutes away. The only thing I worry about that's always gunna be in  the back of my head is... will I go to hell for changing myself? l just don't wanna go to hell for the way I feel. 

Some can debate the existence of hell, but we won't do that.

If you lead a nice life and be kind to those as you would want them to be kind to you, I see no reason why you would be punished in the afterlife. It even says that virtuous pagans (non-believers in Christianity) go to purgatory at worst. From purgatory they can earn passage to heaven.

Either way, you should be fine.

That's great Dominick. Like Aidan said I don't see why a person would be sent to hell for making their body match their mind. Some might question if living their life as the wrong gender isn't hell on earth.

I don't think that is a reason to go to hell, or not..
what you do with your life, and how you do it... that is more important... at least to me!

Quote
It even says that virtuous pagans (non-believers in Christianity) go to purgatory at worst. From purgatory they can earn passage to heaven.

I personally don't believe in purgatory. I think when we die we go to either heaven or hell depending on the life we live here on earth.

Quote
That's great Dominick. Like Aidan said I don't see why a person would be sent to hell for making their body match their mind. Some might question if living their life as the wrong gender isn't hell on earth.

Yeah, I'm excited.

I would say it's like hell on earth, being trapped in  the wrong body. But there's all different kinds of hell on earth. I would say this is one of them.





I still worry though if I'm doing the wrong thing... meaning my transition would cause me to go to hell.  My mom keeps telling me something evil is pushing me to make the transition, that it's not a good thing. She's not supportive and I can't get her to understand me. She tells me to pray to God to change my mind and make me feel more comfortable as a female.  But I can't pray for something I don't want and feel, ya know? It's frustrating.  She's trying to guilt me out of making the transition by telling me, " what about the rest of the family, how do you think their gunna feel?" But I tell her, "how do you think I feel? I'm the one trapped in the wrong body."  She just thinks if I pray to God, God will change my mind and feelings about wanting to be a boy. And she believes that I had a crush on a friend of mind, but I didn't. I told her I was in the whole denial stage back then, that I was fooling myself into believing I had a crush on him, but felt absolutely no attraction to him in any way whatsoever  b/c it was girls I liked. I didn't want to be trans. I wanted to be like everyone else so I put myself in denial believing I liked guys when I know inside, I didn't, and I didn't want to get picked on either, that's another reason I put myself in denial. All those years I was pretending to be someone I wasn't. Pretending to like guys when I never did. I always liked girls and that's not going to change.

Quote from: westminstersub on November 10, 2010, 06:19:19 PM
I don't think that is a reason to go to hell, or not..
what you do with your life, and how you do it... that is more important... at least to me!

I don't think it's a reason either. But if it's God's law, what am I to do?  I don't know what God wants. It's says in the bible not to alter your body, that it's a sin, I think.  I just wish God could tell me what to do, give me some kind of sign telling me whether it's right or wrong to make the transition. Is transition worth the risk of going to hell? I mean, I want to transition, but I don't want to risk going to hell either.

But can you picture God saying, "I love you, but since you made the transition your going to hell you made that choice by making the transition, giving the knowledge that altering your body is a sin and you went ahead and did it anyways."

Dominick,
    Man there are a lot of sins in the world to commit and someone correct if I'm wrong but doesn't it say somewhere in the bible that all sins are equally bad? If God is this loving person then why would he banish a person to hell for making their outsides match themselves? The bible was written an incredibly long time ago. I would never tell anyone to question their religion. That choice is personal and very important.

However, I will say that in my own opinion I don't understand how a person was trans if god made everyone, if he did not make them that way. I have to believe that a loving god would not want me to spend my lifespan miserable. Mind you this is only my opinion and no one else's.  There are glbt churches when many religious people believe that is a sin so not everyone believes that being gay/bi/trans/andro is a sin. Just my observations.

It might say that all sins are equal. I can't remember.  But I question that b/c isn't killing someone worst than stealing? How can that be equal, ya know?

I just said the same thing to my mom... Does God want me to be miserable my whole entire life? I would say no.  She's says, God made you, and God can change you. Pray pray pray. With God all things are possible... which is true, but praying to make  me feel like a female inside... it's not gunna work, and  if I don't feel female inside and mean what I say when I'm praying for that, it's like I'm lying, asking God to make me feel comfortable in my own body and not actually meaning what I'm saying b/c I don't feel it inside... it won't work.

Dominick, I'm not sure which Bible verse(s) you are referring to, but think of all the men who are circumcised, all of the people who have had surgery, everyone with pierced ears (or pierced anything) and tattoos. Are they all going to hell, no matter how wonderful, kind, and giving they are? I just don't believe that a benevolent deity would condemn. Hell, no!

I know of a verse that deals with this issue, but it's from the Old Testament. I was under the impression that, for Christians, the New Testament supersedes the Old. The NT is a new covenant with God, no? So if you're a Christian--it sounds like you are--maybe this issue doesn't even matter. After all, Christians eat pork and all kinds of seafood. Christians don't put their women in a hut around that time of the month. And so on. (Hmm. I wonder how many Jews actually follow all practices in the OT?)

I'm catholic. But I'd say I'm christian too.

QuoteDominick, I'm not sure which Bible verse(s) you are referring to, but think of all the men who are circumcised, all of the people who have had surgery, everyone with pierced ears (or pierced anything) and tattoos. Are they all going to hell, no matter how wonderful, kind, and giving they are? I just don't believe that a benevolent deity would condemn. Hell, no!

I was watching Kirk Cameron on this religion show with some other guy and the guy was talking about how you can't get into heaven by just being nice and kind, you have to of course believe in God and  believe Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins and resurrected, and repent your sins. But I can't picture God putting people in hell for these things, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to believe it. But like I said before... God doesn't put us in hell, the choices in life we make put us in hell b/c they don't comply with what God wants.

It says in the bible not to mark up your body, (ear piercing according to my grandmother, is okay, but not tattoos b/c it's permanent) that our body is a temple and that we were bought at a price and to honor God with our bodies.


I bring up the whole pork and seafood thing to my mom too... it doesn't make sense to me that it would be a sin. It says clams are bottom feeders, I think if we eat enough of it, it cause something, I think or something like that. 

Quote from: Dominick_81 on November 10, 2010, 09:01:12 PM
God doesn't put us in hell, the choices in life we make put us in hell b/c they don't comply with what God wants.

Seems to me that mere mortals cannot know the divine mind...we just have to do the best we can.

Quote from: Dominick_81 on November 10, 2010, 09:01:12 PM
It says in the bible not to mark up your body, (ear piercing according to my grandmother, is okay, but not tattoos b/c it's permanent) that our body is a temple and that we were bought at a price and to honor God with our bodies.

In that case, and this is just my opinion again, how can you honor God with the wrong body, so to speak?

The most terrifying Hell is the one we put ourselves in.

    Hugs, Erocse

I'd rather go to hell as myself than go to heaven as someone else.

Yep

Quote from: Arch on November 10, 2010, 11:37:13 PM
Seems to me that mere mortals cannot know the divine mind...we just have to do the best we can.

Yes we do.

Quote'In that case, and this is just my opinion again, how can you honor God with the wrong body, so to speak?

I'm not sure about that one.

QuoteI'd rather go to hell as myself than go to heaven as someone else.

Not me. I do not want to go to hell no matter what. If I gota be someone else to get into heaven and not my true self then I'll be someone else.  But when you die you'll be your real self in heaven anyways. There is no gender in heaven.

As far as the belief in a physical HELL-besides the one I have lived in for many years, I am not one to believe that the Almighty would leave us confused and bewildered just floundering around and then damn us to an everlasting hell for not living as the majority of others say we should. I think the early Jewish leaders were wrong on that one and also think some of those in the early Christian days were incorrect as well. This leads me to believe the modern day church as a whole is wrong in it's condemnation of those who don't fit the gender norms. I do however think there are some who will deserve to live where the worm does not die or go away. I do not beileve this applies to us.

We live with enough problems already without heaping loads of condemnation upon ourselves. Just take one day at a time and slowly find you way. God expects us to find our own way then when we are ready He will reveal our measure of truth to us in the way He sees fit.
Randi

I hope it doesn't apply to us.  In my mind I can't see God damning us either for who we are. I don't see a loving God doing that. But if it's wrong in the eyes of God, he could punish us for it. That's my biggest fear of getting on T, besides zits and downstairs growth.


My friend at work told me if I change myself God won't recognized me.  Like at the gates of heaven, he can say" I don't know you, be gone", and I'm thrown into hell b/c God doesn't recognize me and know who I am.

The only way He couldn't recognize you is if you don't take the time to talk to Him and seek to find Him. If you do these things He will know where to find you.
Randi

Well, if you are going to hell then your God is a bad SOB.  How can we respect a thing that would prefer we lived in such misery than to be in a form which allows us to be happy and productive people?

You could always hang out with my crew when you die, we will be the huge crowd with the tshirts that say "good people against god".  You can join our union and we will represent you.

Here is a thought, my heaven would be hell for some.....

Dominick, how is your friend sure God won't recognize you? Has he met Him? Testosterone, transition... although it's needed for some it is still a very personal choice. Man so many people base God off of one book yet everyone admits to never having met God. I struggle on how to write my opinion on this and not have anyone criticize me pushing my beliefs on anyone. I believe in a God/Goddess/Higher Being of some sort but until I meet him/her/ or this being who is beyond gender I have to rely on myself to judge. I do what I think the God that I believe in would want of me. I am not harming anyone, but am helping myself feel comfortable and happy.

I believe I am transgender because God felt that I needed to live part of my life as a transguy. I think there is something I needed to learn. On that path I accepted myself and learned a greater appreciation for life, people's struggles, and got with an ex girlfriend to help raise a beautiful daughter for 6 months. It taught me how to grow up. I believe that was God's doing. I say this because God gave us free will. He knows you. I can't promise you what He thinks. I wish that I could because it would help so many trans people who don't transition for fear. The bible as many others mentioned was written a very long time ago. Maybe the people who wrote it never met a trans person. Maybe if they had or if Jesus himself had then they would have written acceptance. That's something that can never be known. Look into your heart, what does it tell you to do?

I'm sorry I was disrespectful.

It must be very hard having to deal with that worry, and there is no way to know for sure. Perhaps a good starting point might be to think about what Jesus would think of you. Would he damn you, or would he invite you to share bread with him? I think you will find an answer in that.

Good question Nicky, the answer is obvious-He would share the bread with all who would take it. His whole premise was to accept people where they are and teach them there-not tell them to change then come back for more.
Randi

Quote from: Randi on November 11, 2010, 07:32:29 PM
The only way He couldn't recognize you is if you don't take the time to talk to Him and seek to find Him. If you do these things He will know where to find you.
Randi

I pray every night and talk to Jesus. He knows who I am.

Quote from: Nicky on November 11, 2010, 07:56:20 PM
I'm sorry I was disrespectful.

It must be very hard having to deal with that worry, and there is no way to know for sure. Perhaps a good starting point might be to think about what Jesus would think of you. Would he damn you, or would he invite you to share bread with him? I think
you will find an answer in that.

It's okay.  I like that idea.  I would think he would invite me to share bread with him instead of damning me.

Quote from: Michael Alexander on November 11, 2010, 07:37:21 PM
Dominick, how is your friend sure God won't recognize you? Has he met Him? Testosterone, transition... although it's needed for some it is still a very personal choice. Man so many people base God off of one book yet everyone admits to never having met God. I struggle on how to write my opinion on this and not have anyone criticize me pushing my beliefs on anyone. I believe in a God/Goddess/Higher Being of some sort but until I meet him/her/ or this being who is beyond gender I have to rely on myself to judge. I do what I think the God that I believe in would want of me. I am not harming anyone, but am helping myself feel comfortable and happy.

I believe I am transgender because God felt that I needed to live part of my life as a transguy. I think there is something I needed to learn. On that path I accepted myself and learned a greater appreciation for life, people's struggles, and got with an ex girlfriend to help raise a beautiful daughter for 6 months. It taught me how to grow up. I believe that was God's doing. I say this because God gave us free will. He knows you. I can't promise you what He thinks. I wish that I could because it would help so many trans people who don't transition for fear. The bible as many others mentioned was written a very long time ago. Maybe the people who wrote it never met a trans person. Maybe if they had or if Jesus himself had then they would have written acceptance. That's something that can never be known. Look into your heart, what does it tell you to do?

She's very religious, and she says it's in the bible(I think  that's what she said) and that it's not good idea, that being trans is evil.  She's very strong opinion.  There's no sense in trying to have her see it your way, she won't listen, I've tried to explain to her how I feel. She doesn't get it.  Like my mom, she says pray, God will take those feelings away.

My heart tells me to make the transition. But I have to worry about the cost. I have a temp job that doesn't give me steady work, so I don't have a lot of money. Hopefully it's not gunna cost me that much.  And top surgery, forget about that, I don't have thousands of dollars, I barely have a thousand dollars in my checking account and once I'm out of work again, the cash will go down. As much as top surgery terrifies me I know it's something I need to get done. I hate having this chest, I want it gone. But there is no way is this lifetime I will be able to afford top surgery.

Quote from: Dominick_81 on November 10, 2010, 09:01:12 PM
I don't think it's a reason either. But if it's God's law, what am I to do?  I don't know what God wants. It's says in the bible not to alter your body, that it's a sin, I think.  I just wish God could tell me what to do, give me some kind of sign telling me whether it's right or wrong to make the transition. Is transition worth the risk of going to hell? I mean, I want to transition, but I don't want to risk going to hell either.
I was watching Kirk Cameron on this religion show with some other guy and the guy was talking about how you can't get into heaven by just being nice and kind, you have to of course believe in God and  believe Jesus is the son of God and died on the cross for our sins and resurrected, and repent your sins. But I can't picture God putting people in hell for these things, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to believe it. But like I said before... God doesn't put us in hell, the choices in life we make put us in hell b/c they don't comply with what God wants.
It says in the bible not to mark up your body, (ear piercing according to my grandmother, is okay, but not tattoos b/c it's permanent) that our body is a temple and that we were bought at a price and to honor God with our bodies.

With me being non religious I am not sure if my words are of any value here. I have thought about religion a lot and have read many books and looked at many views about it.  Lets just start at a point every religious person agrees: God is perfect. What I find amazing is that many people think so illogical about religion. Some people claim that only people who accept Jesus will pass through the pearly gates of heaven. Doesn't this sound strange? It says that God puts what you believe over the way you live your life. So Socrates, Buddha, Marcus Aurelius and countless others who lived with great moral would be tossed in hell without a second thought, but a murderer would go to heaven if he only accepted Jesus and repented at the latest moment? Forgive me, but I refuse to believe in a God that would do such horrible things. It is not the way of a perfect being. People say that heaven is a place without sorrow. Imagine you and your mother die simultanously. She  goes to heaven and you go to hell just for taking T. Do you think your mother would be happy in heaven, knowing you are in eternal pain? Just one of the things that don't add up.

Lets go further on this, many people agree that man is imperfect, but how could a perfect God make an imperfect creation? It does not make sense. Either God is imperfect or we are perfect. The latter would be the most logical. Then why all the sorrow? Teachers try to put this on our freedom of choice, the original sin. But honestly, does freedom really exist when one option leads to heaven and the other to eternal damnation?  This image is actually close to a little kid burning ants with a magnifying glass, or an armed robbery. Isn't this mockery of your relationship with God?

It is not illogical for a perfect God to toss you in hell for just being what he created in the first place. You are only trying to be yourself how can this possibly be a sin? How are you hurting others with your transition? A very religious person I spoke on the airport told me it was a sin for 2 reasons:
1) It prevents you to have children.
2) It will hurt people who prefer traditional values.
Honestly, these aren't valid arguments when you look at present day overpopulation, the many children looking for a loving family and to put this in favor of close minded people is just laughable. 
Can you imagine a loving God actually wanting you to suffer your entire life in a body that does not match your gender identity and forbidding you to overcome this?
For your own sake, be yourself and live the way you see fit. if you can do this with religion as your guide that is great for you. But never go against your own reason and feelings. I am afraid it will only hurt you in the end.

If you ask me I think that the knowledge of good and evil is actually our greatest gift. For how could we ever know what love is if we do not know hate, would you know what warmth is if you do not know the feeling of cold? A few years ago I asked a child if he was sad that the summer holidays were over. He answered: "I am happy to go to school because else I would not even have a vacation". This child knew more about life than many adults. I am positive that this knowledge of good and evil actually allows us to have emotions, it allows us to experience ourselves. This led me to believe that if there would be any goal in life, it would be to experience ourselves. And this is all you are trying to do. If I after my death find out I was wrong and a God actually does exist I will face Him/Her with the same reason. If this puts me in hell I will at least have the comfort of knowing I will join the many lovely people in history, including my better half.

Sorry for the long blabbing, I'll stop typing now.

QuoteBut there is no way is this lifetime I will be able to afford top surgery.

There's a charity that might help you with that. Unfortunately, I don't know how much they will give you or even what their name is. Anyone?

Sorry, can't help with the charity name but I've heard that there are top surgeons who let you make payments before and after surgery, don't know specific names. Also there are medical loans that can be taken out and gradually paid back I'm pretty sure.

Quote from: Octavianus on November 11, 2010, 08:33:45 PM
With me being non religious I am not sure if my words are of any value here. I have thought about religion a lot and have read many books and looked at many views about it.  Lets just start at a point every religious person agrees: God is perfect. What I find amazing is that many people think so illogical about religion. Some people claim that only people who accept Jesus will pass through the pearly gates of heaven. Doesn't this sound strange? It says that God puts what you believe over the way you live your life. So Socrates, Buddha, Marcus Aurelius and countless others who lived with great moral would be tossed in hell without a second thought, but a murderer would go to heaven if he only accepted Jesus and repented at the latest moment? Forgive me, but I refuse to believe in a God that would do such horrible things. It is not the way of a perfect being. People say that heaven is a place without sorrow. Imagine you and your mother die simultanously. She  goes to heaven and you go to hell just for taking T. Do you think your mother would be happy in heaven, knowing you are in eternal pain? Just one of the things that don't add up.

Lets go further on this, many people agree that man is imperfect, but how could a perfect God make an imperfect creation? It does not make sense. Either God is imperfect or we are perfect. The latter would be the most logical. Then why all the sorrow? Teachers try to put this on our freedom of choice, the original sin. But honestly, does freedom really exist when one option leads to heaven and the other to eternal damnation?  This image is actually close to a little kid burning ants with a magnifying glass, or an armed robbery. Isn't this mockery of your relationship with God?

It is not illogical for a perfect God to toss you in hell for just being what he created in the first place. You are only trying to be yourself how can this possibly be a sin? How are you hurting others with your transition? A very religious person I spoke on the airport told me it was a sin for 2 reasons:
1) It prevents you to have children.
2) It will hurt people who prefer traditional values.
Honestly, these aren't valid arguments when you look at present day overpopulation, the many children looking for a loving family and to put this in favor of close minded people is just laughable. 
Can you imagine a loving God actually wanting you to suffer your entire life in a body that does not match your gender identity and forbidding you to overcome this?
For your own sake, be yourself and live the way you see fit. if you can do this with religion as your guide that is great for you. But never go against your own reason and feelings. I am afraid it will only hurt you in the end.

If you ask me I think that the knowledge of good and evil is actually our greatest gift. For how could we ever know what love is if we do not know hate, would you know what warmth is if you do not know the feeling of cold? A few years ago I asked a child if he was sad that the summer holidays were over. He answered: "I am happy to go to school because else I would not even have a vacation". This child knew more about life than many adults. I am positive that this knowledge of good and evil actually allows us to have emotions, it allows us to experience ourselves. This led me to believe that if there would be any goal in life, it would be to experience ourselves. And this is all you are trying to do. If I after my death find out I was wrong and a God actually does exist I will face Him/Her with the same reason. If this puts me in hell I will at least have the comfort of knowing I will join the many lovely people in history, including my better half.

Sorry for the long blabbing, I'll stop typing now.

I read somewhere online about a family member getting into heaven and the other one goes to hell. They person answering this person's question said, that the mother wouldn't be in pain if their child goes to hell b/c they agree with God that, that's where they are supposed to be. It was on some religion site. I'm not sure if it was actually mother and child, I'm just using that as an example.

No, I can't image God wanting me to suffer in the wrong body.

I agree, there are no valid arguments. Some females don't want kids so that's not even an argument there. If I wasn't trans, I still wouldn't want to have kids. No way would I go through the pain of having a kid. I don't know how women can do it.  Now if I ever got married to a woman and she wanted kids, that's fine with me.  It's just to bad I wouldn't be the one to get her pregnant. But I really don't want kids. So hopefully if I ever get a girlfriend hopefully she doesn't want kids.

But you really don't wanna go to hell. Hell is beyond your worst nightmare. Something you cannot imagine. Suffering night and day forever and ever. No rest. You will find no comfort in hell. Even though you say that, you will not be thinking about that when you go to hell. I'm not saying your going to hell, I'm just saying, that wouldn't be on your mind. Fear, agony, pain, torture and sadness, etc.. is all your gunna feel in hell.

Quote from: Michael Alexander on November 11, 2010, 08:51:28 PM
Sorry, can't help with the charity name but I've heard that there are top surgeons who let you make payments before and after surgery, don't know specific names. Also there are medical loans that can be taken out and gradually paid back I'm pretty sure.

That's cool. But I want the best surgeon b/c I'm just terrified of surgery. I heard that Dr. Brownstein is the best in America. But I have school loans I have to pay back too, so I'm not sure yet.

Quote from: Arch on November 11, 2010, 08:35:37 PM
There's a charity that might help you with that. Unfortunately, I don't know how much they will give you or even what their name is. Anyone?

That would be cool.