Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Yup, it lasted 3 days. This morning, I came to work and my boss called me in his office to tell me my training would not be continued. After a discussion with the director, "it will not do".

When I asked for details, he told me my attitude with clients was wrong ; I was apparently too shy. He also told me he had a problem with my "standing", i.e. appearance. He had asked for a necktie, which I did not wear. I did buy one, and I asked two or three employees if they could help me with it, but none could. I had resigned to ask my boss to help me with it. Ironic, huh ?

He also confessed that there actually was a problem with my hair. I'm not sure if I like the fact of including a reason he had not mentioned to me in justifying my dismissal, but well. It appears a customer mentioned he did not like my hair.

I was pretty devastated and I cried for a while - I had the decency of not breaking into tears in front of him at least - but I guess I'm okay now ; I'll just resume my job search.

Since he was hesitant and looked unsure about his reasons, I believe my being feminine may have influenced his choice, but I cannot say for sure, and I will certainly not blame it for my failure. I failed, and accepting that fact is the first step to getting back up.

I'm very disappointed, however. I liked the job and I was beginning to be good at it. But I guess that is just how things are.

Funny thing, I had to actually make an effort to let the tears out, and they were artificially blocked two minutes afterwards, and I began feeling angry at the employer and the customer who had helped them fire me, when I actually do not blame them at all. I have always hated doing that, and since I know it's the testosterone's fault, I hate it even more. I wish I could just walk into a clinic and get an appointment for an orchiectomy.

Edit : Additional news. Bad news : I lost my bus pass today ; it apparently fell from my pocket. Not-that-bad news : my co-tenant's boyfriend is moving in with us. It means less space in the appartment, but it also means a better TV and a better non-broken fridge. [The one I had borrowed from my father had shelves that kept breaking and I'm tired of gluing them over and over again.] It also means lower rent and Bell bill. It makes me save about 110$ a month. Not much, but not a thorn.

 :icon_anger: :icon_anger: :icon_cry2: :icon_cry2: :eusa_wall: :eusa_wall:

A - I'm so sorry  :icon_sadblinky: I understand how that may have felt. And you have every right to feel angry. I sure would. I suspect it's something more personal than professional. But there is no proof of that.

*Hugs*, it will get better! If you ever need another hug just let me know. I'll be your personal hug dispenser.

QuoteI wish I could just walk into a clinic and get an appointment for an orchiectomy.

I wish I could do that too  ;D

I am sorry that job did not work out for you... It is always very upsetting when things like that happen

But one must look forward... Possible a better job is in the works ahead

*HUGS*

Try not to be too down A. I and I'm sure, many others here have lost dozens of jobs.

Rest for a day or so then try to get back on the trail.

Take care.

Is there not any youth, (young adult) programs the government of Quebec could offer to you? They could probably help out allot.  Have you tried to network with any pride centers? sorry to hear that your job did not work out.

I am sorry that you lost a job that you liked and were getting the hang of.  Using your appearance is just plain BS as far as I am concerned.

But the bright side it that it was not meant for you.  The next one may be just the ticket for you.

I'm so sorry A :( Good luck towards finding a new job. Maybe everything happens for a reason? Your boss was an idiot for not mentioning your hair before hand.

I cant believe what happened I am really sorry about it, I think your boss should have stood up for you especially since you were new and really liked the job...  I honestly think he was a complete moron for giving such a stupid reason for letting you go...  I am sure you would do better at your next one...

yeah that always sucks, every job I've had that I enjoyed has layed me off with no reason given I even got banned permanently from a temp agency because I told them I had to go to school so I couldn't go to their meeting thing so I know how you must feel. I have a good attitude and I always make an effort to be positive efficient and professional at work so It's hard to know what people expect sometimes.

That's absolutely awful! I'm so sorry to hear about that. And what's with the customer who complained to your boss about your hair? Seriously, why would someone complain to a manager just because they don't like someone's hair? These ungrateful, grumpy @$%$#^@ need to be rounded up on an island somewhere so that the rest of us can live in peace.

yeah people suck that's why I like jobs where you don't gotta deal with random customers just other employees. good luck on the job search

I'm so sorry to hear about that, A. I agree with AetherealMeadow, it's appalling that a customer would complain about such a trivial manner - and then for your boss to use it to justify firing you? At least as disappointing as this is, you know you won't have to deal with that moron as your boss anymore. Good luck in searching for another position.

It is a wonder you don't have a discrimination case going. I guess it would be hard to prove they clocked you over gender issues

It's a sad reality that, when jobs are hard to find, the crappy employers tend to think they can treat people badly and fire them at will, for the most trivial reasons.

I've had one week of work this year, with a company that I've done loads of work for in the past. I have recently discovered that the reason they didn't keep me on was because some 20 year old apprentice had a problem with me. (Though I didn't notice anything).

Take it on the chin. Rise above it.

Don't ever start thinking it's your fault. It isn't. It's just the way some people are.

Addition.

Something else I forgot to add.

A good boss will be looking at his workers. He will know them and what they can do.

Sadly, most are lousey. There's a principal that people are promoted to their level of incompetancy.

When job are scarse and people are getting laid off, most workers are feeling insecure. So they will tend to be more ready to be critical of others.

As the new one, you were just picked out.

If you did your best, then that is all anyone can ask. Try again.

If you didn't, the try again and do your best next time.

Well I guess if they have such a poor attitude to an enthusiastic employee it is their loss.  I certainly wouldn't be using their services either, nor would my family and friends. 

Chin up, you will get there.

Sandra.

Sorry to hear you lost your job. It sure sounds like the boss had to dig pretty dam deep to come up with a reason to let you go. As for the customer complaint, I doubt that very much he needed to focus attention on some one other than himself. I have been in your shoes plenty. It is his loss and your gain because that was the wrong place for you the next will be the right and you will rise up higher than the guy that fired you over hair.

It's funny how 'support' translates into telling people they are right (and the other person is wrong) no matter what, when real support would be to look at the situation and try to figure out how to avoid it in the future.  If you're getting fired on day 3 or 4, obviously some sort of major problems are going down.


it sure sounds like the boss had to dig pretty dam deep to come up with a reason to let you go
How's that?  This person only two tasks to accomplish, one is show up on time, the other is to try to reasonably look like you work there.  Failed at half of that, flat-out.  Given how many hours you couldn't find anybody to tie a tie?  Really?  You have time to post on here, but not to go to utube?  I only got 87 MILLION hits on that when I Googled it.  Many were videos.  In no small part, a huge part of any such job in a hotel is to solve problems, hopefully before they even are noticed.  What does this say about your future problem solving abilities?

If you are required to show up in a particular kind/style/fashion/color/costume do it or don't take the frickin' job.  If you don't do it don't be surprised if your sent home, or even fired.  If you're supposed to show up in black, don't show up in brown, dark gray, or navy blue and tell me 'it's close to black'.  There is 'black' and 'not-black' and you failed to understand the difference between the two, and you want me to pay you for that?  That being said, there is 'tie' or 'no tie' - there is nothing in between. 

As for the customer complaint, I doubt that very much he needed to focus attention on some one other than himself.
Oh I don't.  People complain.  A lot.  The more they are spending, the more expensive the product, the more they feel they have a right to bitch.  The richer the rich, the bigger the bitch.  And you're damn right people listen to them.  Money is power.  If I start that conversation off with how much I've spent that year in your hotel - or even better, how much money my company has spent there in total - yeah, people will be listening.  The bigger, better, more expensive things are, the bigger, better the bitching is, and the degree to which it's taken seriously (particularly in the hospitality industry) also goes way up.

fire them at will, for the most trivial reasons.
Using your appearance is just plain BS as far as I am concerned.
Most people, if they are not union workers, are pretty much 'at will' employees.  And not following the dress code is not a trivial reason.  That (whatever it is) is the 'corporate image' and for a desk person it's pretty much the core of the job to represent the corporation to the public.  There are a lot of jobs that don't require a dress code, if a dress code is hard for you to handle, it's best to seek out those jobs. 

Appearance is important for a lot of companies.  Sometimes for good reasons, other times for bad - either way it does not matter.  Once that is in the corporate culture, it's going to stay there.  Want a harsh dress code?  Right down to underwear requirement?  Read the one for Disney Park employees.

And even if it's not a 'formal code' there are lots of informal ones around, some those work in the exact opposite direction.  Don't show up at some major rock club in your beige Dockers with a colorful Izod shirt, the Tommy Hilfiger sweater tied casually around your neck and the Topsiders without sox, they don't hire people who look like that.  They don't want cocktail waitresses that look like the career section of The Limited, they want cocktail waitress that look like they were dragged though the slut section at Torrid or Hot Topic and finished the look off at Fredrick's of Hollywood.

Because you didn't drop $50 on each ticket, pay the service charge, pay the parking, get all rocked out to see your favorite band at this super cool venue to have someone who looks like the Pillsbury Doughgirl dressed as Marian the Librarian serving you.  It ruins the total effect you're paying for.  So too, Mister (or Miss, sometimes they are even worse) Professional Business Traveler does not want to finally show up at the hotel and have some scruffy person to try to deal with.  They want (expect) to pretty much find a carbon-copy clone of their lackey/flunky/administrative assistant back at the office who dresses so corporate that thier pajamas have a button-down collar.

To the hotel, Disneyland, and the destination nightclub, appearance (though what it is varies greatly) is very important.  And all of them work to accomplish some kind of image projection.  To work there is to buy into, accept, and agree to that.

And, the first reason stated was I was apparently too shy which is a bad trait in an aggressive pro-active job position.  And, without a lot of work, that kind of thing runs deep and is very hard to change. Five Star, Four Star, Three Star - are not just the levels of the accouterments and services, but also the level and quality of the staff.¹  Professional shiny, happy people.  Go-getters, outgoing, people pleasers, problem solvers - "Yes Sir!  Can Do!  I'll see about that right away." kind of people. They have to be aggressively enthusiastic.  Which, of course, many people are not.  Those people are not well suited to such public positions, in the same why that people with no mechanical skills and who are 'all thumbs' would find my job most difficult.

There seems to be some sort of notion that your job will care about you.  That's wrong.  They pay you to care about the job.  The management of any business, of all business does not care about your problems/troubles/backstory/struggles/trials/tribulations/untold suffering and all that - YOU ARE A POSITION ON AN ORG-CHART THAT IS ALL.  That position comes with various tasks/responsibilities/expectations and you're either fulfilling them, or you're not cutting it.  And really, nobody in the work situation is really - like reality really - is ever going to really want to hear about your problems/troubles/backstory/struggles/trials/tribulations/untold suffering and all that unless they become your real friend, and then, at that, confine such stories for your off-work sojourns. To the degree that such things come up in a work context, then thats' pretty much the degree that the real work is not being done.





1. I regularly stay (every other month or so) at hotels like these.  I work at them, or wind up going to one for something or another every few weeks.   The Westin St. Francis, the Embarcadero Hyatt, The Palace, Intercontinental, W or some trendy boutique hotel with lots of stars here in San Francisco are favorites.  I've also stayed at my share of blue-light cheep hotels, no-tell motels and cinderblock and still visible chalk body outlines on the carpet so I know the difference.  I even worked a desk, at a hostel, which is more in tune with who I am, but the job is the same, it's not rocket science, but it is a lot of dealing with people who may, or may not be, at their personal best when you get ahold of them.

Quote from: A on November 15, 2010, 04:23:57 PM
Edit : Additional news. Bad news : I lost my bus pass today ; it apparently fell from my pocket. Not-that-bad news : my co-tenant's boyfriend is moving in with us. It means less space in the appartment, but it also means a better TV and a better non-broken fridge. [The one I had borrowed from my father had shelves that kept breaking and I'm tired of gluing them over and over again.] It also means lower rent and Bell bill. It makes me save about 110$ a month. Not much, but not a thorn.

Whatever you do, put that money aside for transition.  You're used to living on $110 less a month anyways.

I'm sorry to hear this. I wish it was better, but hell, I have been through the same, except they openly said that it was because I was looking to transition. They said, you cant lift heavy things which is a requirement for your job (Not really, I was working as a technician in IT) They made up all the lies under the sun just to try and justify getting rid of me.

tekla: You sound like my mother, and you and her are both right.

However, thinking back, I believe the true reason behind my dismissal was not appearance. I mean, I showed up at work without the tie all the time [but ALL of the rest was more or less perfect] and NO ONE mentioned it. Ever. The first day, I DID show up in a green chic shirt [he had not mentioned yet he wanted a white one] and - I apologized for it as I was going to shop for pants that night - jeans, and he asked me about it, and I said tomorrow I will have bought everything I need, and he said okay.

Probably he felt that I was "willingfully not abiding to the dress code" because of the first day, plus the tie. And if I were not so nice and understanding, I would have probably felt that way too.

I believe the true reason was because I made the mistake of saying in front of the sub-boss that busses would make it impossible to make it on time to work or leave as late as needed. He did not react, but he probably told the boss about it, and an employee with such transportation problems is not "hire-able". I believe that is the true problem, but he did not mention it, because I should "theorically" not be penalized for not having a car.

But I will repeat again : I do not blame them. Yes, I would not have acted the same as them. But I am not sure I would have kept an employee with whom I would have to make the previous/next shift arrive/leave 15 minutes sooner/later.

So yeah, this is a failure. But I am starting job search again, and hopefully someone will hire me. I am having an info interview (i.e. meet the boss and give him my résumé, exactly what got me the job at that hotel) to be a telephonist in an insurance company tomorrow, so hair should not be much of an issue. I hope I do well !

--By the way, I thought I should ask. How should I go ? Chic-but-casual shirt, black overshirt, black pants and black leather shoes ? Same but with an even more chic white shirt ? Jeans and sweater ?

good luck!

Good luck!

Quote--By the way, I thought I should ask. How should I go ? Chic-but-casual shirt, black overshirt, black pants and black leather shoes ? Same but with an even more chic white shirt ? Jeans and sweater ?

Sorry, edit came too late.

I wouldn't wear jeans unless you know what the dress code or whatever you call it is like there. I'd probably wear whatever looks most professional.

Quote from: jessica on November 18, 2010, 07:57:31 PM
I wouldn't wear jeans unless you know what the dress code or whatever you call it is like there. I'd probably wear whatever looks most professional.

Dress at least one step above what their employees wear.  You can always dress down once you're hired.

Always try to look professional and jeans are a no-no at most interviews .. so try to avoid them unless the people there also wear them regularly or is part of their dress code/culture , try to go there a day early to take a peek at what is the norm/dress code where-ever possible or take a look at it on the companies website (imho which should be done first as it would save you a lot of hassle) ... normally most bosses prefer (sub-consciously/consciously) hiring people with a combination of grey/white shirt and dark brown/black formal pants i.e light coloured top and dark coloured pants combo.. and try to keep to a similar clothing pattern (with or without stripes) for at least the first 3-4 weeks...

Keep up the positive attitude!

::hugs::

I am your mother - Rock and Roll den-mother at that.  But your mom is right.

Here's how you do it.  Simple, easy and almost foolproof.  Go to the place of business the day before your interview.  Do it slightly before lunch, and stay till after lunch.  Carefully note what people are wearing.  Show up for the interview dressed exactly like that.  Walk into the interview so you can walk out and start doing the job right away.  LOOK LIKE YOU ALREADY WORK THERE.

^^^^^^ - if you had done that to begin with you would have worn a white shirt and tie from the get-go.

that busses would make it impossible to make it on time to work or leave as late as needed
Yeah, I would have had you walking to the exit before you even finished the sentence.  Can't be on time, can't work for me (or really anywhere I've worked in theater, it was even worse for my dad, he was an airline pilot).  It's possible for me to let people go without working the extra time - given union time and a half and double-time I have people fighting to stay on so an 8 hour day pays X, 18 hour day - not uncommon - pays X + X + X +1/2X) but really I don't like that either so don't make a habit of it,* and you damn well better tell me that right after "Good Morning" so I can plan for it.

I should "theorically" not be penalized for not having a car.
You're not, your being penalized for not getting to work on time, regardless of how you get there.  Fact is my bike and bus people have a far better on-time record then the drivers.

I think that you're trying to cut it too close.  I get to work almost always an hour before I start.  Because the next bus would be cutting the time to five minutes and in the Bay Area that's too much of a risk.   Twenty minutes early is 30 minutes late!  because of the basic hour factor (anything that goes wrong is going to take an hour).  So I show up, sometimes I do some stretching, sometimes I get coffee and doughnuts, sometimes we all head out for a 'safety meeting' or I read... you get the picture.  But, and I'm not alone in this at all, I'm just fanatical about it (as many are), but... When I give a start time of 9:00 I want the frickin hammers in the air at 9:00.  I want to see that first keystroke at 9:00:0000001.  I did the same thing when I was teaching that my undergrad school did - lock the door when the lecture starts.  Every year the Dean would rag at me about it, every year I never changed it.  I thought it was good training for 'the real world' if nothing else. That and I got there on time, why not you?   And I see this all the time and it drives me nuts.  They 'start' at 9, but in reality get there about 9:05, mill around for a bit, get coffee, check the sports page, put their tie on, take a dump, flirt and by the time they actual get their butt into position for a little work-place submission it's 9:20, 9:25.^**  Building habits of always being early will help you keep jobs, (get more jobs too, early bird, worm and all that) and you get a lot of reading done too.

But yeah, really, REALLY! think about your co-workers, your comrades, your union brothers, your stage sisters, or what-have-you and try to live up to whatever the most basic requirements are (and starting time is the very first one at that).

So yeah, this is a failure.
Not at all.  You are young, just starting out, wet behind the ears, and have that unique mix of casual arrogance and studied earnest that older people hate so much about people in your age group.  This was not a failure, you're on a learning curve - YOU'RE OK HERE SO LONG AS YOU ARE LEARNING AND IMPROVING.  Better to get fired from job when you are 18 and not 48. 

* BTW, I'm hip to the bus, been using public transit + bike + walking for most of my life, haven't even owned a car this century (I'd rather have the month to month and a half off thank you) --- anyway, my bus stops running at midnight, and does not start again till 6 am.  I rarely get done in time to take a midnight bus.  I have a wide bunch options to fill the time including napping at the theater, riding my bike and meeting the bus further on (20-30 miles) up the road (on a nice night the ride from Downtown, along the Embarcadero, out along the Marina and Bay, across the Bridge, down to Sausalito, around Richardson Bay and then the bike trail to Novato is stunning), I walk a lot, I have been working on my "San Francisco at 3am photo portfolio" for a decade now, coffee shops, a few nice places that serve breakfast all night, friends, or last - but not least and the favorite option - hang out doing some serious drinking with the boys for a couple hours after which I no longer care when the hell the bus shows up.  I just figure that it is what it is, and this is the lifestyle/career/home and all that, that I choose.  I could get a car, but I hate oil wars and I love bikes.  I could move to SF, but my GF would not, so... or I could do something else with normal hours, but then I'd have to be normal.  So, I have a lot of time between the hours of midnight and dawn, its up to me to use them.

** - it's the equivalent of one extra paid day off every month - and bet me that the people who are late in the morning, are late coming back from break, late back from lunch - you get the picture.  And basically 'forcing' people to stay overtime at work to cover for you time after time will make you devastatingly unpopular at work.  That's not being a 'team player' - and a hotel (any hospitality deal really) is a team (really 'crew' not team, but...) effort at all times.  And I'll say this about hospitality work now: they are always putting in more hours.  It the nature of the beast.  My stuff, and everybody else in that club/theater are not doing some clear-cut 9-5 kind of deal.  One of them lists on the show sheet (what is happening at what time today and other details) Shows Over: When You Hear Greensleeves.  That's because we have been playing some version of that song at the end of the show since the 1960s, but note: no time.  It's over when it's over, it is what it is.  I've had bands go on on-time and end up doing 90 minutes more than the 2.5 hours they were telling us earlier.  Which is fine.  They are major stars, we're a major venue, if they want to play, we let 'em.  Our contracts have a minimum amount of time they have to play, but there is no maximum. 

If your on the staff of some hotel and the Vice Premier of Crookastan want's pickle flavor ice cream at 3:00am, guess what?

tekla, I seriously admire you. I would definitely not survive spending the night out in the next city all the time because I finish after the last bus. And I would definitely not survive using a bike to cover the 30 km or so that separates the next city from me, let alone doing so at minus 30 in the winter.

But yeah, I get the idea. I should go back to my "basic" attitude, which is "do whatever they tell you, in advance and better", instead of the attitude I have learned from the age of 15 that is "do it your way because you don't understand why you should do it theirs". I've always hated that part of me. It's just not me, yet I'm like that all the time. I would love to just blame testosterone for it, but deep down I know it cannot be the cause to everything. I wish it were easier to just act the way you want to act. I feel like I'm being controlled by... Me. Weird.

Anyway, thank you for the advice.

Well there is no Minus 30 here, it gets down to the mid-40s (F) here and people start breaking out the down parkas, the fur boots like they were Nanook of the North or something.  You almost expect to see them trailing a dog-sled.  Second, it is an international, cosmopolitan 24-hour a day city, so no matter how late it is there are always people out jogging, bike riding, walking the dog, stores open and all that, so it's not a wasteland.  But 18+ miles on flat-land, that's an hour fifteen or twenty or so, tops!  Anyway, I'm not exactly 'surviving' - you make it sound like a wilderness trek with bears, it's just a big urban bike ride, with bums.

The rest of it is pretty true.  For sure drop the do it your way because you don't understand why you should do it theirs - no one is going to pay you to 'understand' their way, that's a consultants job.  You just have to execute.  Sure there are most likely other ways, better ways of doing it.  So what?  For some 40 years and more rock bands have been playing the Fillmore, which is upstairs at the end of a very narrow alley.  We have an increasingly convoluted system for getting the contents of the semi up on that stage and back out.  Yeah, there are better ways than the one we use, all of us have thought it through, it's just not the way it's done there and that's all.  When the touring crew starts to come at me with their 'great idea' I just tell them that there is no way we can even discuss it, because we can only keep one idea in our heads at a time, and telling us a new way would cause us to forget everything. 

Hell, it might not even be possible to 'understand'.  It's designed to be all but impossible to understand (see: Entertainment and Publishing book-keeping practices for example)

And I don't think it's T at all.  In college and in the real world I've never noticed the estrogen people doing any better responsibility wise.   Yeah I'd lecture the frat guys for walking to class in the winter in Iowa without hats, and the sorority sisters would back me until I pointed out that they were out in the very same cold weather without sox.   It's really about work habits and work ethics, and how 'team work' really works, and that you get from your parents.