Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Recently a friend of mine asked me to explain to him how exactly it feels or to try to put into words what the whole GID is like to deal with. It was really hard. My best explanation to him came back from when I was younger and I'd pass by a mirror and quickly for a few seconds my mind would be like, who the F is that? He looks oddly familiar. I sort of recognize him? It was almost like the reflection in the mirror was that of a somewhat familiar acquaintance. It would take a few seconds for me to realize, like wow, that's me. Do I really look like that? I guess since my mental image of myself really didn't match the physical (at all), and when it would happen suddenly and randomly, it would make me go hmmmm. I tried to explain to him, to imagine looking into a mirror and then not recognizing the reflection looking back at you. That was the most concise and clear explanation I could give. It's not the easiest feeling to put in to words or explain.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

Describing gender dysphoria is really, really hard. Most of the world's population has no frame of reference and thus can't really even begin to conceive what people with GID go through. Gender is practically the first decision made for someone when they come into the world. It's seen as a binary, male or female and in most cases its never in question.

One thing I've been doing lately if someone asks me, is saying... Think about your sexuality... you're probably pretty secure and certain with that. Now think of your gender. It's probably also very secure. I was never secure in my gender. 

This allows people to realize that it is nearly impossible for them to "get it".

Like many, I avoided mirrors where possible.  But the thing that was the most interesting was going to the bathroom.  I have mostly always sat when using the toilet.  And part of that was when I would look down, it was gone.  It looked so natural. 

I could not stand showering.  Bathing was much better.  Enough bubbles and nothing could be seen.

How about Pinocchio? That's kinda the same story and everyone knows it. He wanted to be a real boy so he could feel like a normal kid, or something.

I'm sure there are a lot of stories or well-known characters out there that have image or personality issues we can relate to which will be useful in helping people understand our predicaments.

How about the X-Men or any spin-off where important characters are "born different" and just want to feel "normal"?

Can you imagine being born so different you have to change your body to feel secure? The only difference is you are perceived as normal already, or at least physically conforming to within acceptable standards of what it means to be human, but so are a lot of super-powered mutants...

Try to explain it like this: "You know how Beast grew blue fur all over his body? Imagine that is me, only instead of blue fur, there is this wicked black hair and prominent bone structure."

I feel that when you have researched the topic for long enough it starts to make more sense along with confidence in your understanding of it then you find it easier to explain to other people.
I'd say transsexualism can be really confusing for a lot of people and making sure we keep it simple and easy to follow is so important. Confusion only sparks misinformation.

First break it down for them and clarify they understand what gender and dysphoria are.

Gender is a word that encompasses a number of areas but when accompanied by the word dysphoria if refers to how we interact with the world in regards to gender roles and gender expectations and how they don't correlate with our gender-identity, which is how we perceive our identity between masculine and feminine.


Dysphoria: a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness as opposed to...
Euphoria: a feeling of happiness, confidence, or well-being.

Most people are born with a feeling of contentment (euphoria) with their body in relation to how they perceive themselves between (masculine and feminine) gender-identity.. it's not something they usually give any thought to as it's not something that puts them at unease.


Some say gender can refer to the "brain sex" but I find that misleading and confusing.
I find the word gender confusing as it can work as an umbrella word that changes meaning with different context. But when it's hyphened with another word it makes it easier to pinpoint a meaning.

Someone's signature had a quote in it saying "we are a soul with a body not a body with a soul" and I think there is so much truth in that and it helps to clarify for people when they ask "well can't you just fix the perception of gender instead of the body?". Our core identity is within our mind and soul the body is just a vehicle for who we really are. The body can be changed to bring contentment to the mind and soul but not vice versa.. studies have proven this.

--------------------------------------
this is how I understand it at this point I don't want to claim it as factual as I could of missed/misunderstood something etc..... I would love feed back as I may put this to certain family to see if it brings any more clarity.

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 02:19:48 AM
Most people are born with a feeling of contentment (euphoria) with their body in relation to how they perceive themselves between (masculine and feminine) gender-identity.. it's not something they usually give any thought to as it's not something that puts them at unease.

Maybe this is true... maybe it isn't, but leave off the bit after "themselves" and the statement suddenly becomes quite obviously false.

It is no stretch to say a vast majority of people in this day and age grapple with the reality of their image as it compares to perceived or advertised perfection we see in mass media. It may be that most people are content or "settle for" their body, but to say that non-gender questioning people are innately satisfied with their bodies is far from the truth (I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a point).
Rather than trying to precisely define the meanings of the terms in question to someone whom may not have the patience or capacity to retain that information or find it useful, it may be simple enough to ask the inquiring party if they have ever felt like they wanted to change or adjust their body in any way. I'm sure you will agree this must be common. People want to be taller, or lighter, or darker, or softer, or stronger, or smarter, or faster, more beautiful...

How foreign a concept can this be, to be uncomfortable with certain aspects of one's body? Surely this must be a universally understood thing...

It is hard to explain, especially without getting all brainy about it.

I try to use analogies which are relevant to the person I'm talking to. The other day it came up in a conversation with a friend who loves sailing. The story I told him was one where small boats are placed into two groups: motor boats and sailing boats and that basically I was born a sailing boat but looked a lot like a motor boat and they ended up putting me in the wrong fleet. The reason why things take a long time before you figure it out is that you stare for ages at your engine wondering what's wrong (sailing yachts have built in engines while many motor yachts have small masts to hold the night lights and antenna)...

Anyway, the story did stick :)

I think one of the issues we have in relating our feelings to others is that we (1) know so much about it and (2) are very focused on our own needs

Emma

Mirror dysphoria is gone when you glance in a mirror and see a nice woman looking back - that's when you realise that's why you can go round town and not get read.

Hi All

For people who don't have that problem it's hard to understand.
I once had that question from a straight friend and he asks what is it, and what do you feel when you have the gender problem?
I asked him how he was feeling when he wakes up tommorow and walkes to the bathroom, look into the mirror and his mustache was gone (that was his pride) and then he takes a shower, looked down and scares because it felt off somewhere (another pride) anyway when walking to his job the roadworkers are whistling to him and ask for a date because now he has boobies and round hips.
He said he was getting the point and it looks horrible for him.

Hugs
annette

I explained it to my brothers by saying that there are 2 colums of people walking in a hallway. The guys on the right side and girls on the left.
The hallway represents life. 

The floor is uneven and no matter how hard I tried to walk with the guys, gravity pulled me towards the girls. Some days it was relitively easy to walk, while other days it was difficult. I was seperate and not part of the main stream.

Living the life and the surgery, leveled the floor. I may not be part of the main stream, but its a lot easier to walk through life.

I think this is one of those instances where you need to take control of a discussion. For some people, no matter what you say, they will simply try to put you down. Just walk away from these types. They don't want to know, tjhey think they know everything. They are just looking for an argument. To those that really want to know I would try to proced like this.

The few times I've talked about it, I have generally started by asking people if they can fully understand situations like, diabetes or pregnancy or being gay. I ask then, beyond their intellectual knowledge, to what extent can they really understand?

Generally, they respond by saying that they know people who have diabetes, been pregnant or are gay. To which I respond, 'And you know someone who is trangendered, me'.

Unless you are in the situation, you can only have an intellectual understanding. That is all I can give you.

I've heard the comparison with wanting to be anything. A rock star, a monarch, an animal. (This was before that South Park episode). I point out that people don't generally seek to be gay or have diabetes. It might be viewed by others as a disability, and to an extent, it is. But it's something you learn to live with. A diabetic just learns to live with the diet and other aspects.

On the sexual issues, I simply say that my persoanl life is no more a matter of discussion than their's is.

To the question, do you want to cut it off, I would ask, if you had an extra ear, would you want to have it removed? I point out that any decision to surgically alter myself is a matter for me and comes under personal.

From there, I just say that, I know who I am. I know how I feel. I don't seek to justify it to anyone, nor to impose myself into anyone else's life. I am and always will be the same person I am now. But my inner instincts of who I am is female.

Do you want to wear dresses?

I want to express my appearance to reflect who I am. Lots of girls never wear dresses. may don't own a dress. But I need to express who I am. How I do that is like everyone else, my own concern.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
Maybe this is true... maybe it isn't, but leave off the bit after "themselves" and the statement suddenly becomes quite obviously false.

Yeah but it then also changes context, which you could do with any written paragraph about ...anything.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
It is no stretch to say a vast majority of people in this day and age grapple with the reality of their image as it compares to perceived or advertised perfection we see in mass media. It may be that most people are content or "settle for" their body, but to say that non-gender questioning people are innately satisfied with their bodies is far from the truth (I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a point).

*sigh*... again your twisting my words.... my words and point were related strictly to gender identity I made no reference or alluded to anything relating otherwise. I have no idea why you felt the next to twist my words out of context into a completely different direction. Strange. Like I said cisgendered people are content with their bodies in relation to gender-identity.. I mean.... that is the definition of cisgendered!!!!!!!! :S

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
Rather than trying to precisely define the meanings of the terms in question to someone whom may not have the patience or capacity to retain that information or find it useful, it may be simple enough to ask the inquiring party if they have ever felt like they wanted to change or adjust their body in any way. I'm sure you will agree this must be common. People want to be taller, or lighter, or darker, or softer, or stronger, or smarter, or faster, more beautiful...

Yeah but the thread and topic is about gender dysphoria not about "wishing" or "desiring" to make a cosmetic change to one's body. Wanting to be taller is not a "condition" like GD/GID that is nothing more than wishful thinking/desire.. to try and draw a parallel is futile.

On the idea of using analogy's and relating GD to other unwanted birth conditions then sure.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
How foreign a concept can this be, to be uncomfortable with certain aspects of one's body? Surely this must be a universally understood thing...

Like I was kinda saying before it really depends what it is, we all know that for a lot of people that don't know about this topic they think that it's a lifestyle choice and something that we "desire" to do. So I find it's important to separate that from say being uncomfortable with say one's ears then deciding to have then pinned. Even though it enriches their life it's still considered cosmetic surgery.
Trying to highlight to people the difference is important I would say.

It's funny how out of all my post you focused on the one paragraph that had the least to do with GD and was really just a bonus paragraph if anything. Simply to relate to a cisgendered person the opposite of GD which is what they feel. I would love to hear your opinion on the rest of my post.. you know the main part! :D

even before I realized I was TG I would look at pictures of me and it would feel so weird, it was like a feeling of how could that be me? i dont feel like thats me. I even told my family members and friends this because its such a strong feeling but just ignored it for the most part.

Quote from: Janet Lynn on November 17, 2010, 11:29:51 PM
Like many, I avoided mirrors where possible.  But the thing that was the most interesting was going to the bathroom.  I have mostly always sat when using the toilet.  And part of that was when I would look down, it was gone.  It looked so natural. 

I could not stand showering.  Bathing was much better.  Enough bubbles and nothing could be seen.

Yes. I can totally identify with that. Anytime when there is an option so you don't have to see "it", just seems more natural, correct and "right".

Quote from: jessica on November 18, 2010, 06:45:47 AM
even before I realized I was TG I would look at pictures of me and it would feel so weird, it was like a feeling of how could that be me? i dont feel like thats me. I even told my family members and friends this because its such a strong feeling but just ignored it for the most part.

Same here. It's why I have few if any pics of myself from before around my house of me growing up. It's like looking at a stranger almost. A familiar stranger, but not something I identify as a pic of myself immediately. I mean I do know it's me after all, but sometimes I really really really ask myself and think, did I really look like that? Just a really unusual and difficult idea and feeling to convey to others via words.
:-\

Yeah, I've only really started to connect with pictures of myself and recognize myself in them since I've begun to look more male. There were maybe a dozen pictures of me in existence before...and there are probably hundreds from the last couple months.

Augh the mirrors, the mirrors! My parents think it's a neat thing to put a mirror on the back of every bedroom door + put one big one in the hallway facing my room directly. I catch myself looking down a lot and never looking in the mirror unless I'm shaving or tending to something appearance/medical related.

I can't say mine's been as bad as some though, but I too, have pondered how to explain it to someone if questioned about it. The mirror argument is a good one, actually. I humorously say, "I have been a girl this whole time, but I lost the coin flip in heaven so God gave me the opposite body! Lesson to be learned: Don't gamble with God, he'll just conjure up a miracle and win :(" or something like that. I've never had to explain it before (except to my therapist) so I'm not too experienced.

Yeah the mirrors are painful :/ One of them positioned badly at the end of my bed resulted in me seeing myself when I first woke up everyday it was extremely distressing. caused alot of damage.

Explaining Dysphoria I explain how it felt quite simply. imagine you feel as you do now feelings emotions and desires But your body begins twisting, You grow facial hair muscles deep voice and become a bulky hairy guy and you How would that impact your personal identity? If everyone else started calling you a man dispite you having never felt that you were wouldn't that make you feel insane?

Rather than Secondary sexual charactarisitcs it might aswell have been boils tumorous growths or pussy itchy scabbing lesions for how my male physical attributes appeared to me towards the end of my time.

It works for most pepole, The exception was my sister who says she would have been fine and happy if she was a fully functional male... it makes me wounder about her... :/ She is Extremely masculine in many of her characteristics has quite a deep voice openly refering to herself as "one of the lads" and is proud of her body hair and such... Hrrmm :|

Its like lecturing the dog.  They look at you like they understand, but you know they really have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote from: spacial on November 18, 2010, 05:39:58 AM
I think this is one of those instances where you need to take control of a discussion. For some people, no matter what you say, they will simply try to put you down. Just walk away from these types. They don't want to know, tjhey think they know everything. They are just looking for an argument. To those that really want to know I would try to proced like this.

I know what thats like ... I once tried to explain this to 3 of my closest friends and they just could not understand and kept asking me all kinds of awkward questions that I tried to answer to clear things for them ... finally they they gave up and outed me to my parents & then 2 refused to speak to me for several years.. (I dont blame them and I still care about them.... ) & 1 just pretends I dont exist... ???  At the end of it I felt so miserable I tried to convince myself I wasnt transgendered .. unfortunately that made me even more miserable, angry & cynical of person than I ever was and constantly in & out of drinking, smoking, overeating & depression... Something I was not able to get a hold of till recently :icon_ashamed:... when I finally was able to accept the fact that I am transgendered...  and finally have my life heading where I want to be going...

Even though its important to educate people about being transgendered, sometimes we must decide who is worth our time and do our best to educate those who are willing to listen rather than put us down  ... Its like someone once said its always the people who we care about who hurt us the most... its for these people we need to try the hardest...

Quote from: spacial on November 18, 2010, 05:39:58 AM
On the sexual issues, I simply say that my persoanl life is no more a matter of discussion than their's is.

To the question, do you want to cut it off, I would ask, if you had an extra ear, would you want to have it removed? I point out that any decision to surgically alter myself is a matter for me and comes under personal.

From there, I just say that, I know who I am. I know how I feel. I don't seek to justify it to anyone, nor to impose myself into anyone else's life. I am and always will be the same person I am now. But my inner instincts of who I am is female.

Do you want to wear dresses?

I want to express my appearance to reflect who I am. Lots of girls never wear dresses. may don't own a dress. But I need to express who I am. How I do that is like everyone else, my own concern.

Well said...  :)

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 06:28:58 AM
*sigh*... again your twisting my words....

Sorry, I guess I should have made this disclaimer more obvious:

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
(I'm not saying you said this, I'm just making a point).

Anyway, changing the context was kind of the point, but I will give your post an honest response when I get back from work later.

I explain I feel like a woman in a man's body... then I tell them I have feeling of extreme anxienty and depression because of it. It is the same as being deformed, or as having to walk in drag 100% of your time. It feels like a dream I can never awake from, or a barless prison with no possiblity of escape. It is the same as trying to run with broken legs, or feeling that you don't exist and was never born.

Usually they can't relate to it, but they manage to understand that I suffer a lot from it.

Quote from: Valeriedances on November 18, 2010, 11:13:38 AM
I can speak more openly about it now that the dysphoria is gone (about what it was like).

Now that's the only thing I'm scared about. What if it doesn't go away, it doesn't get solved, I don't find the peace in my head/body... I just imagined things... My therapist, psychiatrist and even endocrinologist all say that it does and it'll be good for me. But you know... what if...  ???

Emma
(off on a tangent)

Side note: I'm going ahead with everything and I'm not afraid, but still, it's pretty scary

Quote from: Emma on November 18, 2010, 12:48:19 PM
Now that's the only thing I'm scared about. What if it doesn't go away, it doesn't get solved, I don't find the peace in my head/body... I just imagined things... My therapist, psychiatrist and even endocrinologist all say that it does and it'll be good for me. But you know... what if...  ???

Emma
(off on a tangent)

Side note: I'm going ahead with everything and I'm not afraid, but still, it's pretty scary

No reason to be afraid of the unknown. In usual circumstances when it comes to changing one's outside to match the inside, there is nothing that can happen but improvement. The future will be brighter, and while we should always live in the moment, we must also accept the past, for it is the past that has made us who we are today.

Also @ Spacial, I lol'd at the extra ear. I'm going to steal that saying if you don't mind 8D

vibes.

Friends don't do that. Those are conditions on freindship. Conditions that are none of their business.

I'm really sorry they treated you like this. But when you needed them, they didn't come through.


Aidan_

Be my guest.

Quote from: Crimbuki on November 18, 2010, 12:16:23 PM
Sorry, I guess I should have made this disclaimer more obvious:
Anyway, changing the context was kind of the point, but I will give your post an honest response when I get back from work later.

That's one of the stupidest posts I've seen all year... please don't response to my posts any more if possible... they'll no doubt just end in smites.

If I was asked how dysphoria actually feels I think I would say that it is like the feeling of having somebody attack your greatest insecurity every time any little thing reminds you that your sex and gender role do not match the core gender identity you were born with.

If you think about it, the biggest insecurities people have (things that well-aimed insults can cause a person to break down and cry) all have something in common with dysphoria, which is that they have a way of making us feel like our very connection with humanity has been severed.

When we make connections with people through a persona which diametrically contradicts who we really are at our core, those connections have very little substance, if any.  Along those same lines, whenever we catch glimpses of that persona in action, or when we have any sense that our own bodies are in any way discordant with our identity, it reminds us that we are not making honest emotional connections with anybody.  Realizing this can be utterly devastating for normal (non-sociopathic) people, because most humans run on love.  With it, we can find satisfaction and happiness in the worst conditions life can throw at us.  Without it, we can lose the will to even live pretty fast.

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 07:25:14 PM
That's one of the stupidest posts I've seen all year... please don't response to my posts any more if possible... they'll no doubt just end in smites.

Oh, forgive me your highness.  ::)


Anyway...

Quote from: Muffin on November 18, 2010, 06:28:58 AM
Yeah but it then also changes context, which you could do with any written paragraph about ...anything.

I wasn't assaulting your post, only using it for reference.

Quote*sigh*... again your twisting my words.... my words and point were related strictly to gender identity I made no reference or alluded to anything relating otherwise. I have no idea why you felt the next to twist my words out of context into a completely different direction. Strange. Like I said cisgendered people are content with their bodies in relation to gender-identity.. I mean.... that is the definition of cisgendered!!!!!!!! :S

Again, it was not my intent to twist your words, but to simply express my own. I'm sorry if I was unclear but you are being overly defensive.

QuoteYeah but the thread and topic is about gender dysphoria not about "wishing" or "desiring" to make a cosmetic change to one's body. Wanting to be taller is not a "condition" like GD/GID that is nothing more than wishful thinking/desire.. to try and draw a parallel is futile.
On the idea of using analogy's and relating GD to other unwanted birth conditions then sure.

Is it really so necessary to follow the topic so closely that related content is not relevant to the discussion? The topic is just as much "about" gender dysphoria as it is about helping people relate to your condition. This can be achieved in many ways. I find your cynicism both naive and ignorant.

QuoteLike I was kinda saying before it really depends what it is, we all know that for a lot of people that don't know about this topic they think that it's a lifestyle choice and something that we "desire" to do. So I find it's important to separate that from say being uncomfortable with say one's ears then deciding to have then pinned. Even though it enriches their life it's still considered cosmetic surgery.
Trying to highlight to people the difference is important I would say.

Obviously each response must be tailored to the individual. If you know the person you are talking to you can use a categorical explanation and define terms until your hearts content, but some people need to relate on a basic level without the excess terminology, and few will stand for this holy "special needs, special treatment" attitude. Just like anyone you are a person with a problem, it's simple enough draw relevant comparisons with people whom have different issues to deal with because the human condition itself is universal, and empathy can come from unexpected places..

QuoteIt's funny how out of all my post you focused on the one paragraph that had the least to do with GD and was really just a bonus paragraph if anything. Simply to relate to a cisgendered person the opposite of GD which is what they feel. I would love to hear your opinion on the rest of my post.. you know the main part! :D

You are just being confrontational, not unlike a troll, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that it will click that I was not attacking you, but stating what I felt with your post as a reference. If you continue to choose to be offended I can't help that nor do I have any desire to entertain your aggression any further.

Have a nice evening.

Someone once told me on a topic totally not related to gender or sexual orientation, when I said that I did not understand.  I was told that I should be grateful that I cannot comprehend or understand, because that would mean that I would be either like that or capable of that.

The more that I think on the statement told to me, the more that I agree with it.  I had a similar statement told to me on a recent visit to check my vision.  My opthamologist told me that I was partially color blind.  If I remember correctly, he said blue or green or something like that.  I said that I see colors just fine, I really do.  So I asked him how does that color look compared to what I see?  He said that you cannot really explain color.  You have to see it, or in this case feel it.

I have tried to explain gender incongruity (that is a better phrase and will be the accepted phrase with the new standards of care coming out, not GID), but my effort was like trying to explain green.  People can kind of get it, but not really.

As I am feminizing, I am at peace with myself.  When I was younger and before electrology / laser, I could not look in the mirror.  That would freak me out.  Seeing the hair grow from my face, not to mention a masculine face, but especially the hair, was mortifying.  I hated to go to the dentist, because the dentist would see the hair coming out of me.  Needless to say, I hated the sound of my voice.  I could not listen to my voice without getting freaked out too.  Now that I am learning to raise my voice, I am okay with it, or better than before, and getting rid of my facial hair (etc.) was a godsend.

I am not sure how to advise on that.

I would be interested if someone finds a way to "explain it", but I am not having much luck.  Great question.

Hey this topic is facinating and great and would love it to continue.

It would be awesome if instead of continuing to argue over some interpretations and getting offended, just hit the report to moderator button and we will sort it out. Otherwise it is going to spiral out and we will have to lock the topic.

Capiche?

Thanks guys and dolls

Nicole  :-*

(Keep in mind I'm still pre-hrt)
I too have a dislike for mirrors, but I realize there is no way to avoid them during your daily life in terms of hygiene. I am still shaving my face and have gotten a No!No! recently. I've noticed that I've started to dislike my facial and body hair the more I shave it off. It is the little guy that I'm abusive to between my legs that my dysphoria got me the most and if it weren't for SRS needing to use parts from it then I would have cut it off long ago. You could say before I knew what it was I was tucking all the time, but just the testicle part. As open as I am, I managed to get in trouble and flipped one before the end of grade five. As a result I lost it due to the hospital wait system, but I didn't care much for it either and when asked if I wanted an artificial testicle I turned it down with no hesistation.

As well, I have been sitting down to pee as long as I remember and it feels right. The only times I stand up to pee is if there is a urinal ,I'm needing to go badly, and in a club. Aside from what I wrote on my understanding myself thread. My desire to transition becomes more severe as days go by, I have tried everything and every window and in the end it has brought me back to understanding who I am. I've experimented with non-injectable drugs and stayed away from meth, but didn't do it enough to fry my mind. I pursued witchcraft as a quick fix to change my body by looking for gender change spells and I've spent money on countless spells from spell caster sites. I've even tried hypnosis websites like WMM and the more professional ones specializing in feminization. I've even self medicated for awhile and stopped. Like I mentioned I am back to understanding who I am and taking the right steps to transition.

To the people I came out to that I know from school and friends. I've been asked about my sexuality personally I really don't know anymore, but to make the answer quick I say I'm bisexual since I find some males really attractive even though I am still attracted to some woman.

Quote from: sarahla on November 18, 2010, 10:36:15 PM
Someone once told me on a topic totally not related to gender or sexual orientation, when I said that I did not understand.  I was told that I should be grateful that I cannot comprehend or understand, because that would mean that I would be either like that or capable of that.

Excellent point.

:police: First, let me second Nicky's warning.  Attack the subject, not the people. [/ :police: ]

The way I explained GID was to use the example of how they used to print pictures.  They would run the paper through the press four times - one for each color plus black.  If the paper got just a bit out of alignment - out of register - the picture wouldn't look right.  Sometimes you could tell that the colors weren't aligned, but sometimes it was close and all you could tell was that it wasn't quite right - that something was off.  That's the way my life was - out of register.

- Kate

I think of it like having an itch that I can't scratch no matter how hard I try. It gets more and more intense and never goes away.
Randi

Recently, when I look in the mirror, I wonder who that old man is, at least when I am dressed for work. With my hair down in my other clothes, I begin to see hints of someone I can identify with.

For me, dysphoria is not seeing myself in the mirror, not feeling right when called "Mr." and not liking how I am treated as a man. I am not treated badly, but it does not feel "right." I feel like I do not "fit." It is hard to explain better because for me it is more subtle than for some others who are very clear that they always knew. All I knew until recently is I did not fit. Or maybe my "role" did not fit me, I am not sure.

I look good in a tux; I want to look good in a dress. Maybe that is as good an explanation as any.

Kendall

(P.S.: I am beginning to sit on the toilet almost always at home; it is cleaner).

Dys•pho•ri•a - a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, or fidgeting...

Soul fidgeting sounds about right to me... lol

Endless restlessness and the lack of the ability to feel centred in myself – defo!!

Anxiety, also true.... relief could come from hiding my boyz bits and looking at myself tight crossed legged fully naked in a mirror – far more reassuring than any girlie clothes or make-up.... which for me only enhanced the artifice... and what I was not... (I was always acutely aware of the woman deep within)

Dissatisfaction... that my real personae were so stifled, yep that too...

A state... that by the time I hit 30.... I knew for my own personal survival, I would finally have to face, accept (start liking myself) and act upon.

Which I did...

By 33 all the dysphoria I'd experienced as a child onward had finally eased and gone.

At 52 now.... absolutely no regrets, none, No way, Nej, Nein, Nyet, Non, Nahin...Iie!

To borrow from the words of Nike...

So if you be trapped pre-transition and your life is ghormanghastly awful.... deep breaths and just do it baby!

Sarahla's description in terms of colour is spot on. 

I was thinking along the lines of someone who is left-handed or dislexic but doesn't know it.

All their life people have told them not to be so  clumsy or that they are stupid. One day they find out there is a name for their condition, they are as smart as everyone else, and that pain be relieved.

Or maybe like one of Holden's Commodore cars.  The 1986 (?) VL model was a Holden but it had a Nissan engine, so there was no point reaching for a Holden workshop manual to repair it. No matter how much you tried, nothing would work, and you would just cause more damage.

Hi justmeinoz,

I am left handed. :-) That caused me pain as well.  This planet is designed for right handed people.  My mom tried ever so hard for me to write and do things with my right hand.  That is what partially caused the stuttering problem that I had as a youth, gender being the other part.  My handwriting still looks crappy.

Okay, I am so envious of some girls writing style and how nicely they write.  One of these days, I will have to learn to write.

People should let people be as they naturally are.  Nature / God / the individual knows the best.

Quote from: sarahla on November 18, 2010, 10:36:15 PM
Needless to say, I hated the sound of my voice.  I could not listen to my voice without getting freaked out too.  Now that I am learning to raise my voice, I am okay with it, or better than before, and getting rid of my facial hair (etc.) was a godsend.

I am not sure how to advise on that.

I would be interested if someone finds a way to "explain it", but I am not having much luck.  Great question.

I also get somewhat freaked out whenever I hear a recording of my "male voice". I'm always like "I don't sound like that... do I?  :-\

However your voice is easier to improve upon than lots of other stuff.  :icon_cool:

I keep thinking of voice surgery, but I know of a certain someone who would get freaked out at the idea.  The next thing on my list is to get a hair transplant.  I am nearing the end of electrology finally after four years.  Seriously, I do not know of anyone else that has worked on electrology that long than me.  I am down to a half hour on my head per week, although the back of the neck is a bit stubborn.  Yes, a hair transplant is next, and I would not mind a vocal surgery second.  Words do not express how I hate my male sounding voice.  Talking with a forced higher pitch voice does not always work and gets tiring.

I can sympathize with you on listening to recordings.

The hardest to "improve" is downstairs and the hips.  The pubic bone is another issue, because on women it connects.  On men the pubic bone does not. That falls into the category of "downstairs".

Okay feet are issues too, huge ones (12.5W).

Quote from: sarahla on November 21, 2010, 11:24:43 PM
The hardest to "improve" is downstairs and the hips.  The pubic bone is another issue, because on women it connects.  On men the pubic bone does not. That falls into the category of "downstairs".

Okay feet are issues too, huge ones (12.5W).

I think you got it backwards, the pubic bone is not "connected" in women to allow for childbirth.  Obviously this isn't an issue for men, the pubic bone is "connected"

As for shoes, check out www.zappos.com (http://www.zappos.com).  I'm stunned at the styles and sizes they carry.

Sarah, don't get vocal surgery. Please don't. You just have to learn to use a different register of your voice. It's already there, but you just have to access it. No, you'll never have the resonance of a coloratura soprano, but you won't get that from surgery either, and it can do incredible damage to your voice. If you are "forcing" a high pitch, you are doing it wrong. If you've been at it awhile, I assume you know how to use your "head voice" or "falsetto" register, right? Okay, you need to learn how to relax when you use that, maybe take it down a few scale degrees (maybe as much as a major fifth) so you don't have to push and so you can get more inflection.

This is really important -- if your larynx (the main resonant chamber of the human voice; behind and above the Adam's apple) rises up in your neck, stop what you're doing!!!! And relax. Massage your neck muscles gently, hum some low notes or some descending scales or slides, even growl a little (the technical term is vocal fry or laryngealization). But never "push," because it sounds bad, it hurts, it's tiring, and it might cause lasting damage (vocal nodules, for example).



To answer the original question, the best analogy I've come up with is that gender dysphoria is like culture shock.

regan:  I already know about zappos.com.   I bought my athletic shoes that way, thanks though.  It would just be nice to try on shoes in stores too.

general:  I apologize for getting it backwards on the pubic bone.

Alyssa:  Why are you so against voice surgery?  Do you know of people that have bad results?   One day, I have to get voice training and see how far I am.  I was just hoping for a less tiring way and just be able to speak naturally.

Yes, I have heard many scary stories (granted, mostly online), and I have a friend who is a voice teacher who has a student who had such surgery. Her pitch actually dropped after the surgery.

On the flip side, literally every trans woman I have met and known for any length of time has shown a lot of improvement after living full-time. I sing alto now; I used to sing tenor or even baritone. I know another trans woman who used to sing baritone, and her voice is great after only a few months full-time. It can take some time and it's not easy, but it gets easier and your voice improves a lot. What's more, it's cheap, and it's something you can do completely on your own.

Even if, at the end, you decide that your voice is just lower than Barry White's and there's no way you'll ever pass without surgery, okay, consider it, but you'll have to do all the voice training stuff anyway, so don't think about surgery until you at least give it a good shot. Male and female voices are largely like accents, and even if you get surgery, you'll still need to get rid of the harsh attack and the deep resonance and the narrow pitch range and the wide dynamic range and the hard consonants that mark the male voice. Though, sure, pitch helps.

There are lots of resources out there -- YouTube videos, for example -- but try what I said. Just relax when you make those high pitches. You should not have to squeeze your larynx. It might rise a little, but don't push. It you can't sustain a pitch without pushing, it's too high. Back off to a pitch you can hit without forcing it (but definitely still using falsetto / head voice), and then just see how relaxed you can make your larynx and all your neck muscles when your sing that note (or hum -- that's even better, since it's usually more relaxed). Try to go down from that pitch. Go up and down. Make little ambulance sounds, sliding up and down. Make them louder. See how much resonance you can get doing that. See how low you can go -- try to slide from really high squeaky notes down to the lowest notes you can sing, and then back up to the highest, all without a "break" -- it's hard, kind of like learning stick shift, but it's great if you can do it, because then you can mix the techniques of lower and upper registers together. Once you get the hand of it, it's a piece of cake.

Hi Alyssa,

I guess here is where I say "gaga goo goo". :-)  You are far above me in singing and voice stuff.  I thought about singing when I was in grade school, but never did anything with it.  I did play the violin in school, but these days there is nobody to play the violin for, so I do not.  I keep hoping, but no such luck.

I need to get professional voice training.  That is a bit down on my list.  I first want to get a hair transplant and a LaserComb, increase electrology sessions to finally finish with it.  HRT.  It is hard to imagine that I might be on hormones again.  SRS is even harder to imagine.

Thanks for the help. I should take voice lessons one day.  I do not want to sing as a guy, though.  I want to learn to sing as a girl.  My problem is that, when I listen to myself I do not hear a female.

que sera, sera.

Right, I'm pretty serious about singing. And, yes, I get the issue with hearing your own singing voice; it's always been a huge problem for me -- but much less so now. :)

Basically, you said, "Talking with a forced higher pitch voice does not always work and gets tiring," and there are two things you can do to make it easier, without any need for a professional.

First, try to experiment with making that high pitch, but not forcing it. Just give it a try. Start by making the "forced higher pitch," and then try to relax all the muscles in your neck when your.

Next, try to experiment with that type of vocal production any way that feels comfortable. Make siren sounds, sing along to your favorite female pop artist, and generally use your falsetto as much as you can (falsetto is the high, less resonant voice, kind of like a squeal), but without pushing -- don't do anything that hurts.

That's all. You'll have to practice eventually if you take lessons (which is certainly a good idea), so you might as well get used to using your voice now, and figure out some of the things you can do with it.

I've used the following analogy:

Imagine if, one day, you lose both your legs. Chopped off, right at the hip. You can no longer walk, no longer run, no longer dance. You can still function relatively normally in society, but you feel restricted all the time - no longer quite free. Furthermore, you still feel like your legs are there - you can sometimes sense them, you expect to see them there, in every sense you feel like you have legs, and should be able to run, and dance, and do all those things freely. But you can't. You wake up in the morning, and swing your legs over the side of your bed... and they're gone. And for just a moment, you can't remember why. When you go down the street in your wheelchair, people stare at you - you no longer quite fit in. You're now something subtly other to them. But you still feel like a legged person, feel like one of them, and you still expect others to treat you that way. And whenever you move down the street, you're acutely aware of just what you've lost, and how other people now look at you differently.

But even worse is, you could be like them - you could get prosthetics, good enough to walk, if not run, and good enough that you no longer find yourself surprised every time you look down. You might even be able to get transplants. But the people around you won't let you. They don't believe you when you say you used to have legs. They can't remember. Even your parents refuse - "honey, you were born without legs. You just need to learn to live with it."

And the worst part is, they're right. You never did have legs. You just feel like you did. And they refuse to treat you, to give you new legs, because they refuse to accept that you want legs. Because, surely, others have gotten used to it, and having lived without them for so long, so should you? But it doesn't work that way, because the only thing that matters to you is being able to dance, and run, and climb a mountain. Without those, life isn't worth living, even if you can live mostly normally. Because what lies between "mostly" and "normally" is the most important stuff of all.

Now, imagine that this was pretty much the only thing you could think about.

It's not perfect, but I think it works.


I've never had much of the mirror problem, myself. Seeing myself naked is bad, because every time I see my body with that thing hanging down there, I'm surprised, unless I consciously braced for it. But my face and body are otherwise feminine enough that, most of the time, I can see a woman looking back. Sometimes, the male image snaps back into focus, and then I want to die, but most of the time, I can make myself see only a slightly ugly, macho woman.