Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I am really confused because I am a Huge Bowie fan one major reason is because he was such a strong supporter of the gay community in his prime.

Another is because many of his songs speak out to the Transgendered specifically.

And third because I believe he is still transsexual He is just unable to be open about who he is, because of the press and publicity, and that his life has been built to were he is unable to be true to him self any more.

Having such love for the thin white duke, it came as some surprise when I heard he turned away from the gay community later in his career, what I want to know is, was he rude about it?

did he cut down or disrespect the gay community any?

ANd is it considered wrong to still consider his music inspirational even if "he didn't really mean it"

While it's totally your choice, I would say, "Love him!"

David Bowie is truly one of the most innovative, deep, creative artists to ever hit the popular music scene in his, and any other, era.  I saw David Bowie live and in concert and up close in 1977.  He was PHENOMENAL!!! 

He and his musicians sounded exactly the same live as they did on the recordings!  Nobody else can say that, NOBODY!  When he walked back on stage after the intermission, I was in the front row of the balcony and up close to the stage ... real close.  I shouted, "Awesome, David, awesome!  Thank you SOOO much!"  He looked up at me, winked and gave me a thumbs-up.  I did the same back at him.

Was David Transsexual?  Actually, IMHO, I'd say he may have been more of an androgyne.  Many say he did that as a schtick to become famous.  While I'd agree with that, I'd say there was more to it.  Other artists of his era did the androgeny trip, but NOBODY did it as often or as well as he did ... or as publicly and in an in-your-face manner ... in a time when that was not cool with most people and was dangerous to do because of that.  He also married black supermodel, Iman, back in a time when that was a really radical thing to do.  I loved him for doing that too.  Go, David, go!

His heyday was in the 1970s.  He did THIS song live (Naturally!) in that concert I went to and brought down the house with it.  People went crazy ... including me.  Oh, the memories.  Check it out:

DAVID BOWIE - REBEL REBEL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4SLXaF-lIc#)
Also, here you go.  Thought you might like to know more about him.  Enjoy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_bowie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_bowie)

Peace & Joy ... Rock on!

;)   Lacey Lynne

To my knowledge, he's always been cool with and supportive of The LGBTQ Community.  I was the age you are now ... back in the mid-to-late 1970s.  Believe me when I tell you that society was very different then and not anywhere near as tolerant or open-minded as it is today.  David did much to shock and freak out the "moralists."  Many artists did back then.  He dabbled in the bi scene maybe more as an experiment than an imperative.  Many counterculture people did that at that time.  Though he may have later recanted his then-alleged bisexuality, he never actually condemned The LBTQ Community, or those in it, as far as I know.

Whatever the case, the question is:  "Do you love his music?"  I know I do.  If your answer is, "YES!", then the case is closed.  Continue being a fan ... like me ... even after all these years.

Huge long time Bowie fan here  ;D

I adore bowie he is the only man that could tell me to do any thing and id obey with out question, he is amazeing and perfect I love him and he is my favorite singer, I just wanted to know the score, if he was really as great as i knew he was or if my love was misplaced, im happy to hear it is not :)

viva le ziggy stardust, :D.

And third because I believe he is still transsexual He is just unable to be open about who he is, because of the press and publicity, and that his life has been built to were he is unable to be true to him self any more.

Oh, I don't know, he came out as bi at a time when it wasn't particularly hip to do so, and lived through one of his best friends pretty much openly writing a huge hit love song to his then wife.  By her real name even, at least when Eric Clapton wrote his love song to George Harrison's wife he changed her name to Layla.

He is, and pretty much always has been ('cause that part is not about musical talent, it's about financial ability) one of the richest rock stars and was the first I remember to sell off his entire catalog for a lump sum.  $55 million in like '96 or '97 or so.  With money like that, he can pretty much do anything he wants.  And I will assume he is.  Mostly what he does is raise his kids.

QuoteHe is, and pretty much always has been ('cause that part is not about musical talent, it's about financial ability) one of the richest rock stars and was the first I remember to sell off his entire catalog for a lump sum.  $55 million in like '96 or '97 or so.  With money like that, he can pretty much do anything he wants.  And I will assume he is.  Mostly what he does is raise his kids.

Exactly that's what i mean he has kids now a second wife he loves, it would be a lot more difficult on his kids and family if he tried the transsision(honestly how do you spell it my spell check does not have transsision as one of the word and i don't feel like looking it up on google.), even if the paparazzi could not actually do any thing to him, how would you like a camera on you when you trying to change, or going out on the town dressed up, or getting your hormone medication, were a people of privacy and he surely does not have that any more, David Bowie is the man who sold the world :).

Thats what i mean by the media would ruin him, of course they could not touch him financially, and he is a proud and charismatic lil Queen Bitch so i know he'd be able to talk people about it, but we can all agree that would be a hell worth avoiding if you had to go through transssision with so many hateful eyes on you. :)

were a people of privacy and he surely does not have that any more, David Bowie is the man who sold the world

Au contraire, in fact one of the really nice things that lots and lots of money buys is privacy.  Lot's of it.  You can pretty much seal yourself off from the entire world (i.e. Howard Hughes, Michael Jackson) if that is your choice.  And where Mick and Keith are still pretty much in the limelight because they both work overtime on it, how much do you really hear about Bowie anymore?  He could easily travel from his house in Switzerland (a very private kind of nation to begin with) in a limo with tinted windows, to some very private clinic - who would ever know?

And I'm thinking that when I do hear about him it's not the glam deal, or Ziggy, or TMWSTW, but the mind-blowing guitar work on Station to Station, when it comes to really surviving the test of time, that seems to be doing the best job.

you carry a great point, so now i have a new question more a hypothetical though.

whose to say he is NOT trans, like you said he has kinda turned away from the media now...maybe hes becoming lady stardust.

And i think its the fact that he is pretty much the architect of music from the late 70s up, that he started most of the trends that led the generations, from the underground.

pop, disco, techno, glam all thanks to bowie

maybe hes becoming lady stardust.
I don't think you can make such unqualifed statements about people without any proof.  And he does show up at industry stuff from time to time.

And i think its the fact that he is pretty much the architect of music from the late 70s up, that he started most of the trends that led the generations, from the underground.
Nah, not in any way, shape or form.  First of all, he wasn't 'from the underground' he was a fricking Rock Star in capital letters.  Space Oddity was a huge hit and he was what 22, 23 at the time?  All of that was, well, show biz.  For as much press as he got at Ziggy, it was only a few year gig right?  It was just touring that record.  That's all.  A few years later he was a totally different David Bowie touring Fame and Young Americans.  It's like if Rob Zombie or Alice Cooper could have invented a different character to correspond to a different kind of music for every other record.  While he was defiantly an innovator, and almost unique in his ability to shift from style, to style, to style (or genre to genre if you prefer) but there were lots of people who probably had a greater influence genre by genre.

pop, disco, techno, glam all thanks to bowie
I'll give him glam, but techno is German, coming from Kraut-Rock and early electronica stuff like Tangerine Dream, Krafwerk and Can, disco is a total 100% creation of the American R&B community, particularly the Philly and New York 'sounds' take on the Motown sound.  Bowie was very late into the disco thing, and pop is huge, but Michael Jackson, Neil Diamond and the Diva patrol pretty much have lead that since the 70s.  I'll bet that in terms of 'hits,' lifetime total number of records sold, total number of records released, concerts done, tickets sold and all that - that Neil Diamond would pretty much bury Bowie.  And at that, all the Neil Diamond records in total have only sold 75 million, that's 50 million fewer copies than just Thriller.  There is a reason that MJ was called 'The King of Pop."

And pop as such was huge for almost a century before Bowie even showed up.

look Tekla I am gonna try and be very calm and very polite, I'll try hard to keep my poise as a lady...but

you don't have to keep trying to one up me it is very rude and really starting to make loose my charm.

first i say i doubt he would be able to because he would be noticed by the media, and you had to prove me wrong, now you have to contradict me again, are you just trying to be against to me or something?

and second the whole he might be in a transition line was more as a joke not for you to over analyze and blow out of proportion. I am not making any unqualified statement (that is being too serious or literal of what i said) it is just a friken forum not to take as serious as you are. And definitely no reason to over reacting to simple comments.

And finally what is the deal with you cutting down ever opinion i have on him, I don't care if you know more then me about music or even bowie. You don't have to make me look stupid with everything i post, that is being very rude and very disrespectful to me when i have been nothing but nice. if your going to be that negative and mean you should not have ever even posted on this forum in the first place.

One thing that makes music so beautiful is that the opinons matter so much more then the facts, to you all that stuff you had to say to cut down my post is your opinions, even if there facts they are the facts that make you like music.

but facts dont make music and it sure as hell aint rock and roll, a writer can write a song and write it for a exact purpose, example space oddity, it is a fact that Bowie wrote it about the famed film 2001: A Space Odyssey. But someone could listen to it and take it as meaning, someone getting high drifting enjoying the high and then having a bad trip or a bad crash,

The song to them would have another whole meaning then even bowie meant it to, john doe that believes this is not wrong and his opinions are not incorrect that is what the music did for him that is what he believed about the music, and in my opinion Bowie was the one that got me started into pop, disco, rock, goth rock, glam, and again when i listen to other music from the late 70s and up i compare them to Bowie songs so for me Bowie is the architecture of rock and f you have a problem with that well then thats too bad because that is how i feel that's how his music moves me and your belittling comments, and constant cutting down of my posts can not change that.

You obviously know your stuff and im impressed and jealous i know im not bright and i wish i knew as much as you but i don't, but what i do know is what i feel about Bowie and his music, so you can say that these are facts and that im wrong for disputing them, but again i remind you, music is not based on facts, and living by them and not feeling what you believe about the music really makes you loose a great deal of the beauty and art the music has to offer.

I am upset that you were so mean and i'm sorry if i was too offensive I tried as hard as I could to be proper and i do hope you will ease up on the belittling and disrespecting of me, after all were both fans of a great artist who would rather us give love instead of giving grief for such unimportant misunderstanding.

maybe hes becoming ladystardust

LOL... The song "Lady Stardust" was actually written about Marc Bolan, the singer for T-Rex and good friend of Bowie's who past away

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.l.yimg.com%2Fec%2Fimage%2Fv1%2Frelease%2F61086861%3Fsize%3D125x125&hash=916a076de47edb8730bda687ade3532e06a3e0a1)

Anyhow, I don't think anyone's trying to knock you really... Bowie just happens to be part of our era and many of us have worked in the music bizz to some degree

If anything, folks are just trying to help you understand Bowie a bit more

I use to love doing Bowie songs with the various bands I played with in younger days

I believe Tekla is a head stage person down in SF

Anyway, I'm glad to see young folks are still getting into Bowie these days  :)

Quote from: Virginia Marie on November 26, 2010, 02:42:26 PM
maybe hes becoming ladystardust

LOL... The song "Lady Stardust" was actually written about Marc Bolan, the singer for T-Rex and good friend of Bowie's who past away

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.l.yimg.com%2Fec%2Fimage%2Fv1%2Frelease%2F61086861%3Fsize%3D125x125&hash=916a076de47edb8730bda687ade3532e06a3e0a1)

Anyhow, I don't think anyone's trying to knock you really... Bowie just happens to be part of our era and many of us have worked in the music bizz to some degree

If anything, folks are just trying to help you understand Bowie a bit more

I use to love doing Bowie songs with the various bands I played with in younger days

I believe Tekla is a head stage person down in SF

Anyway, I'm glad to see young folks are still getting into Bowie these days  :)

Hell, yes!

Senior year of high school right here, hon ... thanks for the memories!    ;)

Anybody got a time machine?  Let's go back!  Wahoo!

Marc Bolan & T.Rex - Get It On [Bang A Gong] Live 1972 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72DdlmI_Jug#)

Quote from: Paula_Itoi on November 26, 2010, 02:06:17 PM
look Tekla I am gonna try and be very calm and very polite, I'll try hard to keep my poise as a lady...but

you don't have to keep trying to one up me it is very rude and really starting to make loose my charm.

Paula, Tekla knows a LOT about music and was probably just invested in an interesting topic. I honestly don't think you're being picked on. Challenged a little, yes, but that often happens when people talk about interesting and somewhat controversial subject matter.

well now i feel bad :( I'm sorry i just kept feeling stupid because i was wrong about everything i said (what else is new) but it did make me feel stupid :( i guess I over reacted i did not mean to, I just i dont know i should stop talking im sorry.

Quote from: Paula_Itoi on November 26, 2010, 04:01:09 PM
well now i feel bad :( I'm sorry i just kept feeling stupid because i was wrong about everything i said (what else is new) but it did make me feel stupid :( i guess I over reacted i did not mean to, I just i dont know i should stop talking im sorry.

Paula dear, I just want you to feel safe here. I get the impression that you don't feel safe in "real" spaces, so this is one place you can come to feel secure. Even if you don't feel secure in who you are or whether you like yourself or anything like that--and believe me, just about all humans go through that, and it's fifty times worse for LGBT people--even if you don't feel secure in those ways, you need to feel that Susan's is an okay place to be trans and to explore that aspect of your life without thoughtless, bigoted judgments.

Tekla comes across pretty strong most of the time, but I don't think you were being attacked. I think you might even feel flattered that you got so much interesting commentary.

Besides, there's a serious age advantage here. What are you, 22 or something? Lots of people who are three or four times your age will know more than you do about music. >:-)

LOL... Don't be so hard on yourself... Your not stupid, your just young and learning and some of us old crazies have been around awhile  :laugh:

Quote from: Arch on November 26, 2010, 04:11:03 PM
Paula dear, I just want you to feel safe here. I get the impression that you don't feel safe in "real" spaces, so this is one place you can come to feel secure. Even if you don't feel secure in who you are or whether you like yourself or anything like that--and believe me, just about all humans go through that, and it's fifty times worse for LGBT people--even if you don't feel secure in those ways, you need to feel that Susan's is an okay place to be trans and to explore that aspect of your life without thoughtless, bigoted judgments.

Tekla comes across pretty strong most of the time, but I don't think you were being attacked. I think you might even feel flattered that you got so much interesting commentary.

Besides, there's a serious age advantage here. What are you, 22 or something? Lots of people who are three or four times your age will know more than you do about music. >:-)

Hey, same sentiment here, Paula. 

Relax and WELCOME!  We're glad to have you.  Arch is right.  That's just Tekla's way.  Just roll with it.  Tekla is VERY knowledgeable and knows her stuff.  Sure, I could easily "cross swords" with her, more than do so, but what's the point?  Like, why cause a scene?  She's family, and we like her just the way she is.  Besides, she works in the bizz and knows insider information not known to most of us and is very smart and very confident.  That's way cool.  Go with the flow, and everything's fine.  Us old-timers will help you out.  Some of us here were jammin' tunes when your parents were kids, so sure, we know a thing or two about it.  You're learning.  You could teach US some things we don't know, so stick around.    ;)

Look, just be yourself.  We're totally cool with you ... just the way you are.  Don't worry about being "smart."  Just be YOU, and that's more than good enough of any and all of us.

Hugs, Paula!    :D   Lacey   ...   C'mon, let's get into some vintage David Bowie! :

Suffragette City - David Bowie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_68M0ilDe8#)

Whether Bowie is trans or not is up to one person: David Bowie :)

The singer is not the song.  I'm not sure that you have to like one in order to like the other.  Pretty sure you don't.  I know people in bands, I really like them as people, but I'm not wild about that music.  I've also worked with people whose music I really like, who turned out to be pretty big A-holes.  Should I like the music less just because the writer has less than sterling qualities?

And, to what degree were Ziggy, or the TWD, or any of those characters part of who Bowie really was?  A little?  A lot?  Just a stage invention?  And I'm really big on the whole 'stage invention' part - the magic of theater and all.  Those personas were props for the show, when the show was over, so was the need for the prop.

Was all of that based on some deep seated need to project that image, or was it just a way of getting coverage?

Quote from: tekla on November 27, 2010, 07:39:12 AM
The singer is not the song.  I'm not sure that you have to like one in order to like the other.  Pretty sure you don't.

I would have given up lots of music years ago if I had decided not to listen to the music of people whose beliefs, etc. I did not approve of. Let's see, maybe Beethoven, definitely Bach, certainly Wagner...ho yo to ho!!!

well he had put so much personally into her persona that they had to derive form somewere...that is just a foolish usumption though i of course dont have any thing to back up...this is going to sound stupid and nerdy but im sure yall are use to that by now.

I love writing RPs and i am a little into the whole furry scene im not gonna go out and by a fur suit or any thing like that. The art work impresses me and some of the ideas are pretty cool.

For those who don't know a furry lemme explain.
everyone catches them selves every now and then doing "animal like" things example some people love gnawing on bones, everyone has one or two odd quirks that they can relate to a animal, like someone who loves to cuddle and lay in the sun all day would not be offended if you said they were like a cat cause of it. But what a furry does is they looks at those animal characteristics and look a it as if that animal is a part of them, (I am getting to a point i swear.)

I notice that i am like a mouse, now ofcourse i dont actually think im a mouse i know im not thats scientifically and in all way impossible, but i can feel a connection to my "fursona"(furry personality is a fursona) because of a bunch of the minor traits i have that make me mouse, like i love love love fruit and cheese, im very hyper, yet also very shy, im quite small, i have bad HDADD, I have big round ears, I sometimes randomly shiver for no reason, and and this is the big kicker sometimes ill randomly squeak, you see i get air pockets backed up in my chest/stomach were ever hiccups come from :B(i'm so dense) and the'll come up like a single hiccup and it sound like a squeak, it is involuntary and i never know when its coming,

Now then what im trying to get at is, I know im not a mouse and i don't do those things because I am trying to act as a mouse, it is just a personality that has came evnaturally to me, and that is how i believe it is with bowie, not so much like multiples personality, but more like extensions or ch-ch-ch-changes to his normal ones.

now with that, lets take a chance on a couple of kooks. I always thought this song was about gay parents specifically i dont know why but it seems like a pro gay couples song to me, am i right in assuming that?

David Bowie,Kooks,Hunky Dory,1971 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iXEG3hMxjY#)

P.S. Tekla i never said i was sorry for being so dumb and disrespectful I am honestly very sorry.

The way illusion is manufactured in the modern world is pretty damn convincing.  It's really the highest of the high arts of the late 20th and early 21st Century.

When I was in Missouri
They would not let me be
I had to leave there in a hurry
I only saw what they let me see


I think the modern saturation level media has created just that kind of siutution where you are never left alone to think, reflect, contemplate^* - but the images are rushed at you at such an increasing speed - a la Clockwork Orange - that the just all merge together and become some sort of 'truth' even though they are nothing of the sort, they very, rarely are even real.  And they are first, last and always - what someone else had decided you should see.  What they let you see.



I'll use Jack Nickelson in Hoffa because it's a good example, and I like him and the movie both, so no one can accuse me of picking on it.  So, here is the question:
To what degree did Nickelson assume the persona of Jimmy Hoffa and in some way become or at least channel Hoffa so that it could be a compelling story of labor, the little guys and the power of brotherhood?  Or, was Hoffa just another story of everyday working people as told by rich Hollywood stars?



* - It's that 'think, reflect, contemplate' deal that books offer, and what makes them so dangerous.