Susan's Place Transgender Resources

   This story starts when I was about the age of seven. I was standing next to my mother after church one day, listening to the adult conversation above my head. My mother and another lady were talking about whether or not Adam may have had a belly button. The lady talking to my mother suggested that she didn't think so and that there would be no reason for one ,sense he had been created and not born out of a womb. Then my mother said , "if that was so than why did men have nipples"? At that point the conversation got quiet. Then my mom came back in a cheery voice and said "ye but can they breast feed a baby" The two ladies laughed and the conversation was over. I left thinking "why can't men breast feed"? What is it that women have that we don't. This has perplexed me ever since that day.

   Several years later I still could not get that conversation out of my mind. And the answer to the question eluded me. This was way before the internet existed  and information of this sort was nowhere to be found . I don't know why but at some point I started to dream about lactating. As time when on it became almost an obsession of sorts. I remember being in my teens and finding my mother's old breast pump. I pumped as often as I could always looking to see just one drop, which is funny because as far as I knew it was impossible for a man to lactate. I just wanted one drop, but nothing ever came. >:(

    Fast forward to around 1990. Still no internet , (for me at least). I still had this desire to lactate. I tried and tried, still nothing. Then came the internet finally. Now there was a source for this type of information. I found out that yes it was possible. At that point I was certain I would lactate some day. I continued off and on over the years, still nothing. One day around 2000 I saw a drop or two. I don't know , maybe it was something else or maybe it was a drop of sweat ? I think around 2008 I learned that Motilium  caused a increase in prolactin levels and could stimulate lactation. I ordered some online. I tried again , I was very hopeful this time , but still nothing but a few drops. I was so let down. Then in 2010. I started hrt. I still tried to lactate but I thought it would not happen because I was so unlucky in the past and on top of that high estrogen levels will prevent the "let down" reaction. So lactation is not likely during periods of high estrogen.

   Then when I wasn't expecting it . IT STARTED  :o !!!!. I was so thrilled. It started slow but kept increasing , the more I pumped the more that came. Now I know some here as Susan's have expressed some negative feelings or annoyance with unwanted lactation. To me lactation just seems like the most feminine thing a person could do. The only down side is when you stop, your boobs get smaller for about a month and a half. 

   Since then I have started and stopped lactating a couple of times. The milk always seems to come in when I try to lactate. When I am lactating it is not hard at all to express a cup or so in the morning. Even when I express it by hand it is not difficult to get it started. And yes I have been know to sweeten Mrs Erocse's coffee in the morning from time to time.  ;D

    I will never breast feed a baby.  But to answer your question, mom, "Yes, men can breastfeed a baby". :)

   A bit weird I know, but hey this is me.

  Hugs, Erocse

Yes men can breast feed.

I started lactating soon into my transition. It is a family trait I found out after talking to the women in my family.
We all lactate regardless if we have babies or not.
So I didnt have to pump to get it started but when I do pump I start to really produce alot of milk.

I forgot to add. I absolutely love it I can lactate.
When I am feeling dysphoric I express milk and I feel a ton better!

Ahhh Erocse you are telling all our secrets.  :-*

Congratulations erocse! Personally if I started lactating I'm sure I'd hyperventilate and pass out from the trauma... I remember as a teen when things started developing, looking at my chest and fearing stuff coming out of my nipples as things changed.

But I can see how that'd be a huge milestone for you. I'm sure it comes in handy from time to time.

Mrs Erocse: We're out of milk.
erocse: I'll go to the store.
Mrs Erocse: Yes... but in the mean time...
erocse: Oh alright how much do you need?

Osiris that's it exactly!!!   ;D Ha ha ha!

Quote from: Osiris on December 01, 2010, 10:39:55 PM
Congratulations erocse! Personally if I started lactating I'm sure I'd hyperventilate and pass out from the trauma... I remember as a teen when things started developing, looking at my chest and fearing stuff coming out of my nipples as things changed.

But I can see how that'd be a huge milestone for you. I'm sure it comes in handy from time to time.

Mrs Erocse: We're out of milk.
erocse: I'll go to the store.
Mrs Erocse: Yes... but in the mean time...
erocse: Oh alright how much do you need?

Well actually it more like....

   Mrs Erocse; Did you put sugar in my coffee by mistake this morning?
   Erocse: No I did not dear
  Mrs Erocse: because it's sweeter then usual.
  Erocse: Big Grim
  Mrs Erocse: Are you lactating ? Did you.....
  Erocse: Another big grim, then she takes her boob out squeezes the nipple and squirts Mrs Erocse from across the table.. (I actually can squirt, about a foot and a half)

   AND YES I HAVE NO MORE MODISTY LEFT IN ME. (since being outed)

   I can feel all the odd looks from across the web already. I think I need to go to  bed before I get myself in trouble.

   Big hugs (but not too big, you might make me leak) Erocse

I have never lactated and I am 31 months.  Some do, some don't.  Genetics I guess.

Oh course it depends on what your regime is.  If the body is made to think it is pregnant then you might.

:icon_chuckel:

Wow I never knew you could lactate without being pregnant.

One word...WOW! Strangly that reminded me of my ex..when he was a kid he lactated for a while..forgot what caused it. Omg if anyone dared to lactate in my coffee, I'd be mad..and grossed out.. No offense..

Quote from: Dee_pntx on December 01, 2010, 11:42:09 PM

Can't be any worse than all the sperm I've swallowed over the years.   :P

Well Dee, That really puts a different spin on the subject.

   Hugs, but no kisses for you (for now) Erocse

Alrighty then..............This topic was a bit much for my circuit board from the beginning and now it is definately overloaded. 

Erocse, cynthialee, Dee_pntx: I'm kinda jealous of you, now.

On HRT I can definitely lactate, and there's nothing wrong with my bloodwork levels. Previously, when I was somewhere between the age of 11-14 (I don't remember exactly), I wondered why my nipples were always really puffy, and why there was a lump beneath them. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me, especially when for some reason I decided to squeeze the area a bit, and wait, what, why is there clear fluid coming out of my nipples...I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen to anyone else... Now I know that the knot/lump was the very early stages of breast growth, and the liquid was milk. Oh, how very confused I was as a teen.

Wow I have never thought of cooking with it. Abusing Sevan with it is about the only thing that I have done with it.

I lactated for like week once when my E level was too high I also got elevated prolactin from that. It was interesting but also kinda gross.

I tasted a single drop out of sick curiosity and was amused that it tasted like what I'd eaten last.

My milk is very sweet. But I take so many medications I would not even imagine feeding it to anyone. I am a toxic waste dump of pharmacuticals.

OMG, whenever I need giggles, ->-bleeped-<-s and grins, I know exactly who's threads to read!!   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Awesome thread! This is one of those questions I was curious about the answer but would never have felt comfortable asking. That is so cool! I'm just picturing a woman being like "Okay kiddo mommy needs a break today, daddy can breast feed you for the day"  :D

Lactation is something I've always had a distant yearning for.  But only if I was feeding a child with it.  The image of me nursing my infant is a dream that may always be such.  Although I feel that having the sensation of lactation and the let down reflex would be interesting.

I was on prolactin for about a year in addition to my regular estrodial.  But that was more in an attempt to increase my breast growth.  The doctor did warn me that I might start spontaneous lactation.  After a year and no growth or lactation I gave it up.  *sigh*

Erocse, you certainly know how to perk up an otherwise dull evening.  Thanks!

-Sandy(don't squirt that in your eye!)

Wow.  Interesting topic.  I've been the not-so-proud owner of a set of chest danglies for over two decades and have never lactated.  I didn't even know it could happen if a person wasn't pregnant.  I think if the chest appendages started producing even a drop of milk, I'd pass out.

I was lactating for awhile. Not a whole lot, but I guess if I worked at it I would get more.

My exwife gave me all her left over breast pads lol.

I would talk about it at morning tea at work and ask people if they liked theirs shaken or stirred, clock-wise or anti-clickwise. Shake shake...lol.

I liked the taste of mine too. But it seems to have stopped, my body must have adjusted to my hormone level now.

Cool!

Great topic.  Thank you for sharing it.  Although I never talk about it (here or elsewhere), lactating has always been a dream of mine.  I thought that it was possible, but did not know of anyone that did or how to do it.

That means that one day that I can lactate too.  Yippee!

This is unheard of. This explains why all men have nipples and there got be some logicistal reason why men have nipples in the first place. :embarrassed:

Quote from: Dee_pntx on December 03, 2010, 12:55:43 AM
Men have nipples because we ALL start life as female but some portion of the population mutates in the womb into males.
And then some of us, well, you know the rest of the story...

biologically speaking, I think female is considered the base human design, more or less. Men are a variation of this design. At least I read that somewhere. Shrug.

Either way Male breasts don't produce milk unless they grow the glandular tissue. This is unlikely to happen without hormone therapy or some other hormone imbalance going on.

Ah, but can they change nappies :laugh:

OK just stirring :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cindy

Men tend to produce less milk than females but to make up for that mens milk is much richer.
Men have the ability to lactate, probably as a species preserving trait. Many women die in childbirth. If a man places an infant to his breast it will take 2-3 days of suckling to get him too drop milk. Just in time to save the baby in many circumstances. Neato eh?

Cynthialee, you are right it is   "Neato".  :D

Sevan;
What is the hangup? It is by humans for humans. I have tasted milk, mine and other womens and it is sweet. Nursing from a woman is as natural as can be. As too cooking with it...
I am a chef, I am now intrigued. At first I was a tad shocked to think but my cooking mojo is more interested than I can be grossed out.

The main question I am thinking on is that I would love to see what a cheese made from human milk would taste like.....

Quote from: cynthialee on December 03, 2010, 12:17:24 PM


The main question I am thinking on is that I would love to see what a cheese made from human milk would taste like.....

Hmmmm, what would the advertising campaign on that one sound like....... "The best cheese comes from happy transexuals". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

   

  Hugs, Erocse

I love it!

LOL

after a few minutes of research seems that yes indeed human milk can be ussed to make cheese.

Alright, I have to ask.  This is something I have been interested in and have read plenty about it.  From what I can tell, to induce lactation there has to be regular stimulation (breast pumping) every few hours for several weeks.  Or it can be drug induced.  Are you girls seeing this lactation 'without' a change in your HRT?  I really don't want to be messing with my prescription to experience this when I can just get milk for my coffee from the store!

Rylee

I started lactating very soon after starting HRT. But like I said all the women in my family lactate regardless of pregnacy or not.

When my hormones change the amount of milk changes. I have had days when I was so full I was leaking and other days I can only get a few drops.

Quote from: Nicky on December 03, 2010, 01:02:02 AM
biologically speaking, I think female is considered the base human design, more or less. Men are a variation of this design. At least I read that somewhere. Shrug.

It's more like the "base design" is somewhere in between, but weighted towards the female side. But an embryo with no specific external stimulation will become female, and one with added T becomes male, so it's more a point of semantics than anything else.

Quote from: cynthialee on December 03, 2010, 08:59:16 AM
Men tend to produce less milk than females but to make up for that mens milk is much richer.
Men have the ability to lactate, probably as a species preserving trait. Many women die in childbirth. If a man places an infant to his breast it will take 2-3 days of suckling to get him too drop milk. Just in time to save the baby in many circumstances. Neato eh?

What's all this "men" and "man" stuff?  I assume you're not talking about yourself... Erocse... Cynthia... Cindy... ??  ::)

Quote from: Colleen Ireland on December 03, 2010, 04:39:05 PM
What's all this "men" and "man" stuff?  I assume you're not talking about yourself... Erocse... Cynthia... Cindy... ??  ::)

Ummm... no, I'd assume she's referring to people like George W. Bush, Robin Williams, Vladimir Putin, Joe D. Average... you know - men?

(And if you just now got the mental image of Bush or Putin breastfeeding an infant... you're welcome ;) .)

I said men and I meant men.
It also goes without saying that we trans-"WOMEN" can lactate.

Quote from: E on December 03, 2010, 04:56:05 PM
(And if you just now got the mental image of Bush or Putin breastfeeding an infant... you're welcome ;) .)

Ugh... "thanks", I think...?  ::)

I was opposed to trying human milk then many years ago one of my lovers was lactating and natural curiosity took over.

I'm having this interesting day dream of going to the Erocse's for tea, and being offered a cup as Erocse whips out her breast and says one pump or two.

Cindy :laugh: :laugh:

It is interesting but in reading these posts, I read it with much interest and also the following two thoughts, one that I can really lactate one day and how I would feel (awesome!) and two trying to imagine drinking my own milk (or anyone else's for that matter).  That being said, I have no trouble going to Ralph's or Vons and purchasing a gallon of milk and using it in many things or buying yogurt, all from cows that did what you described.

The closest that I got to a real cow farm was driving on I-5 past the Grapevine.  it is impossible to not know that you are driving past a cow farm.  My suggestion to anyone driving past one is to turn off air coming from the outside, and preferably make sure that the car is perfectly sealed with no possibility of outside air coming in for ten miles in either direction.  I can only imagine actually being there, so yes human milk is healthier (designed for humans) and cleaner.

I think that I rather be ignorant and just think of cow milk originating in a carton or plastic bottle.

Yeah, I am definitely looking forward to lactating one day.  I watched the videos posted and they looked like fun.

Yes, I would love to have a baby and nurse it.  I guess that it is quite a bonding experience.

According to the woman on the video it is not 2-3 days for men but rather pumping several times a day for 20-minutes each time for 2 to 3 weeks.  She was not specific on what "several" means.  I thought 4 times.

Question:  My breasts never fully developed because I was taken off of hormones.  I do want to go back on hormones, so I presume my breasts will finish developing then.  If I were to try pumping and get breast milk, would that interfere with breast development later on or are those two things independent of each other?

If I wind up liking my own milk and I get to start lactating, it would be funny to whip out a breast and add some milk to my hot tea by squeezing a few drops.  The idea starts to grow on me.  I have to get used to it.  I definitely look forward to lactating one day.  Yup.

So we can express milk, but does anyone know if nutritionally it would be sufficient to sustain a newborn? Would the fact that we take hormones androgen antagonists harm the baby in any way?

I dream of having a baby carried to term by a surrogate mother. The idea that I could breast feed my own baby boy or girl is pretty amazing.

Caitlin;
I do npt know the answers to that but I do know a transwoman who nursed babies.

Breast milk is produced on a demand basis. The more demand that an infant places on the breast , the more milk that is produced.

   For one reason or another some genetic girls, not often, but sometimes can not produce enough milk to sustain an infant. Likewise some trans women may not be able to produce enough to sustain an infant. Especially if the trans women has not achieved proper breast development due to age, improper hormone dosage or other factors.

    But to answer the question, Yes a trans women can breast feed and sustain an infant.

   To answer another question. Milk production does interfere with breast development. Not in the overall development but since milk production and breast development are two different process. Only one can take place at any given time. Which means, if you wish to lactate, breast development will cease during that time period. But will resume after lactation is discontinued. There are some people that have suggested . To achieve complete female breast development one must have gone through the lactation process at least once in their life time. The reasoning behind this is that the milk duct system in an genetic female or a trans women does not fully develop until lactation is initiated. I guess you can say "milk it does a body good" :)

   Hugs , Erocse

ps. I like to see other peoples weirdness, it make me feel not quite as alone. :)

     

Very good Erocse. You know I believe everyone is weird. The only ones you have to be afraid of are the ones who cannot admit it.  :D

This whole thread has certainly opened my mind in areas I thought would never be opened.

Not a bad thing, but just unexpected.  I thought I was way passed being startled.

Ok, let's up the ante, shall we?

Some of you have added breast mild to tea, coffee, and have even cooked with it.  Has anyone made ice cream?  It would take a lot, but have any of you either put some of it in the ice cream, or gelato machine???

I'm not sure I want to know, but what the hell, eh?

-Sandy

Quote from: Sandy on December 04, 2010, 09:55:12 AM
This whole thread has certainly opened my mind in areas I thought would never be opened.

Not a bad thing, but just unexpected.  I thought I was way passed being startled.

Ok, let's up the ante, shall we?

Some of you have added breast mild to tea, coffee, and have even cooked with it.  Has anyone made ice cream?  It would take a lot, but have any of you either put some of it in the ice cream, or gelato machine???

I'm not sure I want to know, but what the hell, eh?

-Sandy

Ouch !!! my breasts feel sore just thinking about the amount it would take to do that.

  Hugs, Erocse

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.  :laugh:

I am not curently producing enough milk to do anything with it. My production has slowed down.
I am not so sure you are right about lactating preventing boob growth. I have been lactating pretty much the last 10ish months and my boobs have grown plenty in that time.

Quote from: cynthialee on December 04, 2010, 10:38:26 AM
I am not curently producing enough milk to do anything with it. My production has slowed down.
I am not so sure you are right about lactating preventing boob growth. I have been lactating pretty much the last 10ish months and my boobs have grown plenty in that time.

When the lactation process is initiated the fat deposits are replaced by the milk that is being produced. So the fullness of the breasts are mostly do to the volume of milk that has been produced. Likewise after lactation ceases there may be a while when you will experience smaller breast then you had before , lactation. Because it takes your body allot longer to redeposit the fat cells that were replaced by the milk production then it did to absorb the residual milk that was produced.

  Allot of what we consider breast growth is simply fat deposits. During lactation the body (for the most part) stops depositing fat in that area. But instead supplies milk to the breasts. That is why during complete lactation the breast feel so hard and not that usual soft texture

   I will make this assumption though, If a person is not initiating "complete" lactation. And simply producing some milk during a partial lactation period. I would imagine the the body may some how juggle the two processes and accomplish both.

  Hugs Erocse

Quote from: Dee_pntx on December 01, 2010, 11:28:15 PMThese are some vids I made to prove it, they are also pre-boob job so my boobs are just little B's in these vids.
Be aware, these are VERY NSFW !  If you view them make darn sure kids aren't around and what-not.
It's not dirty or pornographic, it's just grown up stuff.

OMG, Dee, this is GREAT stuff!!  I especially liked the middle one.  Wow, nice looking boobs, too.  I am hopeful...

is a manual pump sufficient and easy enough to use to get the process started?  I understand from people here and the specialist on the video that one has to pump several times a day for twenty minutes each session for 2 to 3 weeks.  Would a manual pump do it and is a manual pumping action fast enough?

Thanks in advance.

Mechanical stimulation, via breast pump or other is quite allot of work and may require a great deal of commitment ,time and effort. If we, being  trans-women have not experienced enough breast development the lobule and duct system may not be mature enough to produce satisfactory results. It can be very discouraging to say the least.

   I don't wish to be discouraging but I also don't want to give anyone the wrong impression. Hrt does not always include Progesterone. If your regime did or does not include Progesterone the lobule and duct system may not ever fully develop.

   Then there is the need for Prolactin which can be produced by the mechanical stimulation of the breasts or it can be produced via Prolactin stimulating drugs such as Domperidone.

   Although there are some lucky ones here. That because of genetics are predisposed to lactation. For these people lactation may simply require minimal stimulation or sometimes even unwanted lactation can commence  by a simple fluctuation in hormone levels. I have also heard of this happening to these type of people by simply wearing a bra that may rub the nipple as to cause enough stimulation to induce lactation.

   Another factor to consider is. During pregnancy some of the female hormones levels raise to a very high level Estrogen, Progesterone Etc. Then at the time of birth the levels take a sudden drop. This action signals the body to start lactation. Until then the high levels of estrogen may keep the milk from dropping ( the let down reflex). So in some cases it may be necessary to mimic this action in order to see satisfactory results.

  Hope this helps, Hugs, Erocse

   

Yeah, it does.  I did take progesterone during the year (okay, super low dosage first third of that year, as I was starting out), but the rest of that year was normal levels of progesterone and estrogen.  My breasts did not fully develop nor the duct system.  I will need to go back on HRT, which I want to anyways, and then develop my breasts and then ask my endocrinologist to prescribe a prolactine drug, or just give me some, if possible via time-released injection (highly doubtful, but I could ask).

I guess the follow-up question that I had prepared is now meaningless.  The specialist said "20 minutes per session several times a day," but the details were not provided (20 minutes each side or 10 minutes each side for a total of 20 minutes).  I assume the latter, but this question is meaningless now.  Nobody in my family on either side is prone to sudden lactation.  I have never lactated, although I have never done a thing to start lactating.

One day soon, though. :-)

Thanks!

My family must have unique genetics then. My sister, my mother and my cousin all started lactating as soon as puberty hit. They all have big breasts. My other sister didnt start lactating until pregnancy but she has never dried up completely, she also has large breasts. Mine has seemed to stop growing right between A and B. :(
So I will get BA next year and just solve that issue.

This is one of the funnier threads I've seen in a while.  I'm glad you ladies are enjoying yourselves.  I'm just a little ashamed that after two semesters of anatomy and physiology, I had absolutely no clue that this is possible.