Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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Dana Bash of CNN

Before deciding to invest in FFS, I studied female faces and what makes them feminine. This picture is flattering but on TV, she has what I would call a horse face, but unquestionably female.Yet she has a big nose, long upper lip, low brow, not very full lips.

So what makes her look so female. She has no brow bossing, a rounded forehead and and narrow jaw and chin.

A horse face ROFLMAO :) :)  ;D

Quote from: ssindysmith on January 12, 2007, 06:57:13 AM
A horse face ROFLMAO :) :)  ;D

She is sweet though and a great reporter, not trying to make fun of her.

Camilla Bowles

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So what makes her look female? Well, other than the hair, she looks like a man. She would probably be suspected of being trans in San Francisco. BTW Dr O has has done FFS on many GGs. In fact, I heard one story of a genetic woman who became the subject of harassment due to her male looks.

Chrissie Hynde

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pretenders.org%2Fdl27.jpg&hash=d57ed9baf3e38de076ecfef896d2ae455582c9a9)

Wel, in this photo, she could be mistaken for a guy, big nose, wide jaw, and longer than normal distance from her lower lip to the bottom of her jaw. I used this pic as my avatar at a political forum where people had seen my preFFS pics and was out as a transsexual. Some idiot thought it was me and made fun of the fact that I hold my guitar "like a guy."

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 12, 2007, 07:02:15 AM
Camilla Bowles

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cojeco.cz%2Fattach%2Fphotos%2Flide%2FParkerova_389875%2FCamilla-Parker-Bowles-1max.jpg&hash=73c486cbc239b37bcabb44b28e4be60f353bf75b)

So what makes her look female? Well, other than the hair, she looks like a man. She would probably be suspected of being trans in San Francisco. BTW Dr O has has done FFS on many GGs. In fact, I heard one story of a genetic woman who became the subject of harassment due to her male looks.

She does have a female nose though.  Notice how it is upturned?

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on January 12, 2007, 08:19:54 AM

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 12, 2007, 07:02:15 AM
Camilla Bowles

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cojeco.cz%2Fattach%2Fphotos%2Flide%2FParkerova_389875%2FCamilla-Parker-Bowles-1max.jpg&hash=73c486cbc239b37bcabb44b28e4be60f353bf75b)

So what makes her look female? Well, other than the hair, she looks like a man. She would probably be suspected of being trans in San Francisco. BTW Dr O has has done FFS on many GGs. In fact, I heard one story of a genetic woman who became the subject of harassment due to her male looks.

She does have a female nose though.  Notice how it is upturned?

Melissa

Also the jaw and chin are quite narrow. Although she does have masculine features (longer top lip and a bit of brow bossing), she doesn't look like a man to me. That tells me that TS with these features don't necessarily need FFS to pass.

Believe me, in San Francisco, she would be "suspect" but yes, if a TS had the same features, she could "pass" She would "raise eyebrows" though. She actually looks a lot like I looked pre-FFS and, I should mention, outside of this city, I passed 95%. And usually the times I didn't pass was because of my voice

what makes them [look] female? 

pardon?

probably the fact that they [ARE] female.

I love Chrissie!  I guess you can't tell huh?  ;)  She was wonderfully tomboyish in some way.  I love her voice too.  She's one of my feminine heros.

Cindi

"Far away there in the sunshine are our highest aspirations. we may not reach them, but we can look up and see their beauty, believe in them, and follow where they lead."  Louisa May Alcott

On of my very first post here at Susan's had to do with tall girls passing, my comment was "its not altitude its attitude", I think the same would apply here, have a positive female attitude and you will be surprised at how easily you will present female.

Very true ssindysmith.
I think a positive female attitude is 90% of pasting rather than looks.
:)
Jillieann

Quote from: Katia on January 12, 2007, 08:36:18 PM
what makes them [look] female? 

pardon?

probably the fact that they [ARE] female.

And transwomen aren't female?

Maybe you don't get this but studying the feminine features of the face is a highly valuable exercise for those deciding what, if any, facial procedures they will have.

Quote from: Cindi Jones on January 12, 2007, 08:55:51 PM
I love Chrissie!  I guess you can't tell huh?  ;)  She was wonderfully tomboyish in some way.  I love her voice too.  She's one of my feminine heros.

Cindi

She blows harmonica "like a guy" too, yeah, she has this femme/butch thing going on, totally hot and a great musician.

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 15, 2007, 01:38:11 AM

Quote from: Katia on January 12, 2007, 08:36:18 PM
what makes them [look] female? 

pardon?

probably the fact that they [ARE] female.

And transwomen aren't female?

huh? i don't recall having said this.  i just responded to your question "what makes them look female?"

QuoteMaybe you don't get this but studying the feminine features of the face is a highly valuable exercise for those deciding what, if any, facial procedures they will have.

the only things i get are these

"toleration is good for all, or it is good for none"   EDMUND BURKE


"i used to think anyone doing anything weird was weird. Now I know that it is the people that call others weird that are weird"  PAUL MCCARTNEY


i just don't think that saying that a woman has a "horse face" or  "masculine features" is very encouraging to many who can't afford [expensive] cosmetic procedures to get rid of those features.

Quote from: Katia on January 15, 2007, 01:54:55 AM

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 15, 2007, 01:38:11 AM

Quote from: Katia on January 12, 2007, 08:36:18 PM
what makes them [look] female? 

pardon?

probably the fact that they [ARE] female.

And transwomen aren't female?

huh? i don't recall having said this.  i just responded to your question "what makes them look female?"

QuoteMaybe you don't get this but studying the feminine features of the face is a highly valuable exercise for those deciding what, if any, facial procedures they will have.

Your response was that they look female because they are female. That implies that transwomen aren't female. If I posted a picture of a transsexual that clocked male  and asked why does she look male, would you say "She looks male because she is male?

Quote from: Katia on January 15, 2007, 01:54:55 AM
i just don't think that saying that a woman has a "horse face" or  "masculine features" is very encouraging to many who can't afford [expensive] cosmetic procedures to get rid of those features

I have to agree Katia.  I personally do not like the tone of this thread, for who are we to dictate what are good female features and what are not, most of us work with the features/looks we were blessed with and there is nothing wrong with that.  I also do not approve of this site posting pictures of real people and describing that person as having a "horse face".  It is not warranted, it is uncalled for, it is disrespectful of women and shows a lack of maturity and compassion.  It is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

If a person feels that they need FFS then great go and get it done.  The reason why you get it done is not important to anyone other than the person pursuing the procedure.  And regardless of the out come, if the person is happy with the results then great, nothing else matters.

If I had seen this topic sooner I would have edited the references to horse face, in fact I still might, but I will give the author the chance to correct it first.

Steph

Lighten up.

Quote from: Steph on January 15, 2007, 07:50:01 AM

Quote from: Katia on January 15, 2007, 01:54:55 AM
i just don't think that saying that a woman has a "horse face" or  "masculine features" is very encouraging to many who can't afford [expensive] cosmetic procedures to get rid of those features

  I also do not approve of this site posting pictures of real people and describing that person as having a "horse face".  It is not warranted, it is uncalled for, it is disrespectful of women and shows a lack of maturity and compassion.  It is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

These people are public figures and fair game. Like Dana Bash, a top reporter at CNN, really give's a rat's tush that some ->-bleeped-<- said she has a "horse-face." You are taking all of this way too seriously.

QuoteIt is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

What's hard about being a woman? I found it incredibly hard trying to be (pretend) I was a man all those years. Being a woman is EASY.

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 15, 2007, 12:22:49 PM
I found it incredibly hard trying to be (pretend) I was a man all those years. Being a woman is EASY.

Yes, but perhaps you could try being a lady.

Melissa

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 15, 2007, 12:22:49 PM
Lighten up.

Quote from: Steph on January 15, 2007, 07:50:01 AM

Quote from: Katia on January 15, 2007, 01:54:55 AM
i just don't think that saying that a woman has a "horse face" or  "masculine features" is very encouraging to many who can't afford [expensive] cosmetic procedures to get rid of those features

  I also do not approve of this site posting pictures of real people and describing that person as having a "horse face".  It is not warranted, it is uncalled for, it is disrespectful of women and shows a lack of maturity and compassion.  It is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

QuoteThese people are public figures and fair game. Like Dana Bash, a top reporter at CNN, really give's a rat's tush that some ->-bleeped-<- said she has a "horse-face." You are taking all of this way too seriously.

True they are public figures just like you are a public figure while you post to this site and should someone refer to you in a derogatory way they would be admonished for doing so.  I don't think it is too much to ask to treat others with the same courtesy.

Quote

Quote from: StephIt is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

Quote from: melissa90299What's hard about being a woman? I found it incredibly hard trying to be (pretend) I was a man all those years. Being a woman is EASY.

That may be so but there are many who were not blessed as you obviously have been and need help dealing with their new lives and the many associated issues.

Steph

Some women are pretty, others quite beautiful. Most are average.  All I wanted in life was to be recognized as such, and since this thread seems to have such a negative tone, I won't say what, if any of these 'beauty' categories I fit into.  I'm happy that we have all found the courage to spend the rest of our lives comfortable within our own skins, and feel it's sufficient to be satisfied with that.  Before transition, weren't most of us just desperate to match our outside with our inside?

This whole judgement of who is or is not 'pretty' is rather disappointing to me.

This topic was meant to be taken with a sense of humor but also as a study as to what is considered feminine beauty and what it is about a face that makes it "clock female." I meant no insult to anyone, especially the CNN reporter. I have the utmost respect for women in that field who make it despite their lack of beauty. Candy Crowley comes to mind.

Quote from: Steph on January 15, 2007, 01:05:45 PM

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 15, 2007, 12:22:49 PM
Lighten up.

Quote from: Steph on January 15, 2007, 07:50:01 AM

Quote from: Katia on January 15, 2007, 01:54:55 AM
i just don't think that saying that a woman has a "horse face" or  "masculine features" is very encouraging to many who can't afford [expensive] cosmetic procedures to get rid of those features

  I also do not approve of this site posting pictures of real people and describing that person as having a "horse face".  It is not warranted, it is uncalled for, it is disrespectful of women and shows a lack of maturity and compassion.  It is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

QuoteThese people are public figures and fair game. Like Dana Bash, a top reporter at CNN, really give's a rat's tush that some ->-bleeped-<- said she has a "horse-face." You are taking all of this way too seriously.

True they are public figures just like you are a public figure while you post to this site and should someone refer to you in a derogatory way they would be admonished for doing so.  I don't think it is too much to ask to treat others with the same courtesy.

Quote

Quote from: StephIt is hard enough being a woman without beating each other up over looks.

Quote from: melissa90299What's hard about being a woman? I found it incredibly hard trying to be (pretend) I was a man all those years. Being a woman is EASY.

That may be so but there are many who were not blessed as you obviously have been and need help dealing with their new lives and the many associated issues.

Steph

I guess I am blessed in that I made it although it certainly wasn't easy transitioning TO a woman but it is REALLY easy being one.

Quote from: Tinkerbell on January 20, 2007, 06:10:25 AM

Honestly I also think that posting a picture of someone to point out their "non-feminine" features is very uncalled for. 

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

I didn't really see the harm in it and analyzing what makes a face look feminine and what makes a face look masculine might be a valuable exercise for someone considering FFS or someone who has to live with what she has because she can't afford FFS. They van take comfort in the fact that women with male features have no trouble passing as women. (Although again there was a GG who went to DR O for FFS because she was constantly being clocked and harassed as trans.)

Quote from: melissa90299 on January 20, 2007, 02:34:51 PM

Quote from: Tinkerbell on January 20, 2007, 06:10:25 AM

Honestly I also think that posting a picture of someone to point out their "non-feminine" features is very uncalled for. 

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

I didn't really see the harm in it and analyzing what makes a face look feminine and what makes a face look masculine might be a valuable exercise for someone considering FFS or someone who has to live with what she has because she can't afford FFS. They van take comfort in the fact that women with male features have no trouble passing as women. (Although again there was a GG who went to DR O for FFS because she was constantly being clocked and harassed as trans.)

As I said on my previous post:

Quote from: TinkerbellMelissa 90299, I know that you didn't mean any harm when you posted this thread, so please don't take my comments as anything personal.

Personally and honestly, I really don't find anything masculine about the photos of the women you posted.  They may not be what most people would consider beautiful, except for Chrissie, I think she is very pretty and she rocks....but anyway....as I was saying....they may not be what most people would consider beautiful, but that does not make them ugly or masculine in anyway.

This is my last post on this subject BTW; I think I've said everything I wanted to say.  Perhaps we should leave the analyzing for the FFS surgeons, for I'd imagine it requires years of study and practice to be able to analyze patients and suggest the appropriate course of treatment for them.


tinkerbell :icon_chick:

It's all about attitude, and a little make up. I'm pretty masculine looking normally, if I don't shave for a day but even with that at a distance I have been mistaken for a female. After a good shave and a little makeup and the way my hair is now I can pass for female fairly easly. On closer inspection I can get called male though. My facial hair is not as dark and is easly covered up with foundation to hide any shadow pretty well. One thing I have noticed that some women do have prominant noses and low eyebrows and some do actually look like a man. Some even have a deeper voice pitch. But again it's the attitude that makes the difference.


Linda Ann

Love being female :angel:

That was my main goal of FFS was to be seen female regardless of wheter or not I had makeup on, becuase beauty and prettiness trully is in the eye of the beholder, so it is really hard to gauge that. Now of course we have societal manipulated ideals of beauty, but that is just a social construction and has nothing to do with reality.

But I guess in my own opion I do beleive that there are natural features of bone structure that get us cloked as either male or female and I think this is what FFS addressess. I know in reagrds to my own FFS this is what I had to focus on, not the idea of being pretty. Some peole think I'm beautiful, some think I'm avergae and some don't pay me no never mind at all, and I guess some may think I'm ugly, which does'nt matter to me as long as I am seen female. I would rather be seen as an Ugly Girl, than a gorgeous transsexual, or worse yet, to just be seen as a good female impersonator, which is why I have always tried not to rely on make-up and dress to pass. And I never had the flat out expectation of being pretty, I just want to look like a girl

-passiflora-   

Quote from: Linda Ann on January 26, 2007, 12:31:56 PM
...I have been mistaken for a female.

Quote from: Linda Ann on January 26, 2007, 12:31:56 PM
Love being female

Hmmm  ::)

Melissa