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I've been trying to figure this one out for a while.  According to quite a few people I've talked to, I tend to have a strong female vibe.  I have been trying to think why this is and the only things I can come up with are:
1. Confidence in myself, that is also projected.
2. Conviction that I am female through and through.
3. Instincts.  I have natural female instincts regardless of how I was raised.  In fact, this was one of the factors that convinced me I was female.
4. Not trying.  Because of #2, I actually don't try to be a woman, because I know with my natural instincts and the way my brain works, that if I actually did try, it would only come across as forced.

So, the fact that I know I'm female (regardless of lower anatomy), knowing that mentally I think as a female, and just not trying, I think all contribute to giving out a female vibe.

Any other thoughts on what people think may contribute to a female vibe?

Melissa

Hi Melissa,

That's an interesting one to think about, it was something I was talking about with a friend not so long back.  To go through the points you mention ...

1. Its amazing what you can do if you have the confidence to do it and also when the cofidence is projected on to the people you interact with.  As has been discussed elsewhere on the forums I feel this is such an important thing although I am not sure if this is where "the vibe" comes from though ?

2. Similar sort of thing here, maybe ties in with the first point you made ?  If you have the conviction that you are female through and through then again I think this projects out on to people and helps your confidence.

3. This is the interesting one for me and its what I was talking about with the friend I mentioned.  Do we have a natural female instinct that is let loose when we reach a point where we stop fighting our feelings and admit to ourselves who we really are.  As a child I was a typical boy, shortly after I admitted to myself how I felt and started to confide in friends then something about me changed.  From talking about this with people who have known me since before I transitioned it was generally agreed that its as though the female side of you has been let out of its box and just sort of takes over.  Its maybe like having never done something before but being really good at it the first time you do it.  Everyone around you doesnt believe you when you say you haven't done it before !!  Is this where the vibe comes from and are the confidence and convinction aspects the parts that let other people pick up on this instinct ?

4. Yup, not trying and just getting on with it for me is what its all about.  You often hear it said that the more you try to perfect something the more difficult it becomes - or something like that, lol !!  Once I chilled out, stopped making so much effort to be a girl it became so much easier.

Maybe it really is just a mixture of all of them !!  Do certain things like doing your hair and what styles of clothes suit you need to be learnt ?  Is the instinct something that is already there and you just learn to build on as your confidence grows ? 

Lol, did I answer your questions or just ask even more ?!?!  ::)

Becky
xx

Melissa,
Yes or should I say all of the above.
Although i think #2 Conviction that I am female through and through.
Is the most importat one.
I have just reached that state.
:)
Jillieann

Thank you for the responses so far.

Quote from: beckster on January 14, 2007, 06:10:09 PM
Do we have a natural female instinct that is let loose when we reach a point where we stop fighting our feelings and admit to ourselves who we really are.  As a child I was a typical boy, shortly after I admitted to myself how I felt and started to confide in friends then something about me changed.  From talking about this with people who have known me since before I transitioned it was generally agreed that its as though the female side of you has been let out of its box and just sort of takes over.  Its maybe like having never done something before but being really good at it the first time you do it.  Everyone around you doesnt believe you when you say you haven't done it before !!  Is this where the vibe comes from and are the confidence and convinction aspects the parts that let other people pick up on this instinct ?

Well, I know I had female instincts long before I ever admitted to myself who I was.  Plus I often hear about TS whose parents are trying to "correct" those behaviors at a young age.  However, I think the instincts blossom when we admit who we really are, as immediately after I started coming out of denial, I started getting pegged as a gay man.  I know my walk changed and I'm sure there were other things, but I can't remember.  I didn't realize it was a female walk--I just knew it felt more comfortable to walk that way.

Another thing you mention is when you start usingyour instincts, it comes out like being really good at something the first time you do it.  But it's also instinctively knowing what to do in certain situations.  The first time I tried out stealth, I had only been fulltime for 2 weeks and had never been alone with a bunch of women.  However, I learned to do what just "felt" right and I got along fine.  It took some trusting that my instincts and thoughts were female and it proved over and over again that it was.  It also made me realize I had no clue how guys thought.

Melissa

I give some of that off, not sure how it is?  Is it like a subliminal cologne you just wear all the time?  Very observant people or "knowing" people can read the subtile things about me.  Good post idea!
Ricki

Quote from: Melissa on January 14, 2007, 06:49:46 PMThe first time I tried out stealth, I had only been fulltime for 2 weeks and had never been alone with a bunch of women.

For me female company is the default. I rarely make friends with guys and unless the subject matter is clearly laid out by the activity(ex school) I usually don't know how to interact with them. Conversely I've often been the only "guy" with several other women and that case girls tend to talk like there are no guys around.

Melissa, I've always had a strong female side, though I projected my image to the world as typically male.

During transition, even though I presented as male, I have had many acknowledging nods or smiles from lesbian couples or individuals.  One even winked, and on another occassion, another waved from a distant table in a mall food court.  Many of these were at a distance, when I still wore a short standard male haircut, and sport coat.  Somehow, even early in transition, they recognized 'something', that something, I still don't understand.  But it's there, just the same.  Also, I see others many more times than I used to.

So, do you have a 'vibe'?.....Do I have a vibe?    I don't know how it works, but it seems to.

Quote from: Melissa on January 14, 2007, 05:46:22 PM
So, the fact that I know I'm female (regardless of lower anatomy), knowing that mentally I think as a female, and just not trying, I think all contribute to giving out a female vibe.

LOL... we were just talking about this at my group meeting tonight, everyone laughing at me about my Walmart incident where I apparently passed despite being very early on HRT, dressed in drab clothing, 6'2" tall, and heading into the Men's fitting room.

During the drive home I pondered it some more... because the thing is, I don't look THAT different yet. Some, but not THAT much. The only difference I could think of between now and say months ago, is that I honestly do think of myself as a female now... but in a natural, relaxed way. It's just a background assumption. It's bizarre, but there have been a few times recently when I had to actually stop and think for a second before choosing the appropriate rest room. My "default" is to just head for the "Ladies" sign, but then I remember, "oh... wait...".

It's really confusing (and kinda scary) when you actually have to remind yourself that you're a (genetic) male, and still mostly look like one...

Kate

OK I don't mean to pee in the corn flakes but if you are a woman then the emotions you experience, the feelings that you have, the "vibe" etc. must be that of a woman, plain and simple.  Therefore there is no need to rationalize this unless there were doubts that a person was indeed a woman.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

Quote from: Steph on January 14, 2007, 11:01:06 PM
Therefore there is no need to rationalize this unless there were doubts that a person was indeed a woman.

Guilty as charged. You've seen my struggle to accept this. I mean I've always known I was TS, always known that I needed to be a female, but the idea that I was somehow a "woman inside" scared me. I always KNEW I was a girl, but I was afraid to believe it. I didn't feel I DESERVED to believe it.

But my how we've grown... thanks to some VERY good and patient teachers ;)

Kaye

Quote from: Steph on January 14, 2007, 11:01:06 PM
OK I don't mean to pee in the corn flakes but if you are a woman then the emotions you experience, the feelings that you have, the "vibe" etc. must be that of a woman, plain and simple.  Therefore there is no need to rationalize this unless there were doubts that a person was indeed a woman.

Just my thoughts.

Steph

right! if i'm a [woman], what kind of [vibes] am i supposed to give?  male?  not in my case; i'm not gender dysphoric! ;) 

I agree totally with Steph..

People see me as Female because I am.

This shouldn't ever be an act, this should just come naturally.

If not then review where you are and where you are going.

Buffy

Quote from: Steph on January 14, 2007, 11:01:06 PM
Therefore there is no need to rationalize this unless there were doubts that a person was indeed a woman.

In other words this thread is a moot point because it's something you either have or you don't.  I get that, but it's just fun to analyze (rather than rationalize) things like these.

Quote from: Bev on January 14, 2007, 09:26:42 PM
I have had many acknowledging nods or smiles from lesbian couples or individuals.  One even winked, and on another occassion, another waved from a distant table in a mall food court.  Many of these were at a distance, when I still wore a short standard male haircut, and sport coat.  Somehow, even early in transition, they recognized 'something', that something, I still don't understand.  But it's there, just the same.  Also, I see others many more times than I used to.

Funny you should mention that.  Prior to transition, I had this one lesbian who was attracted to me.  She was always saying how cute I was.  However, after I transitioned and was fulltime she became a little more assertive and actually hit on me.  I just wasn't really attracted to her, so I never really pursued anything.

Melissa

Quote from: Bev on January 14, 2007, 09:26:42 PM
Melissa, I've always had a strong female side, though I projected my image to the world as typically male.

During transition, even though I presented as male, I have had many acknowledging nods or smiles from lesbian couples or individuals.  One even winked, and on another occassion, another waved from a distant table in a mall food court.  Many of these were at a distance, when I still wore a short standard male haircut, and sport coat.  Somehow, even early in transition, they recognized 'something', that something, I still don't understand.  But it's there, just the same.  Also, I see others many more times than I used to.

So, do you have a 'vibe'?.....Do I have a vibe?    I don't know how it works, but it seems to.

I got that too though it's kind of been a constant throughout my life, every girl I've ever truely been interested in has either told me they're lesbian or came out as lesbian shortly after, funny thing is that now I have precisely no interest in women at all :/.

I do worry allot about the vibe I give off, Some people say I come off as completely female, some people say I don't come off as either if they knew me when I presented as male. I try not to worry about it and just get on with things but I read into my own language and actions too much nevermind the fact that i'm quite a fair bit more mature than other people my age which tends to confuse things further.

I still get more attention from lesbian women than I do from men but maybe i just give off that vibe as I don't dress too femmy.

I like just analyzing and talking about things Melissa i like this post you did!
I know i do have a vibe...
Just not sure if its interpretted as a female coming out or girliness or an enfemminite thing cause i present male?  I think most women react well to it and actually tune to it somehow, the male exterior i think confuses the issue?
It's sort of like that thing where the woman says i want a guy that is funny, charming, emotional strong, loving, caring, likes to talk, likes to cuddle, etc..
well let's face it most real natal men are not this......... Dream on!
But if you're a femal inside (aka me! :P) and present male then all of a sudden that "guy" that women are looking for is there... hmm maybe that's my secret!
Damn and i thought it was just my astonishing bald good looks! 
I'm too short 5'7" is a weenie height i hate it!
Anyway guys on the other hand i think maybe take me for that more enfeminite male i do not know if they wodner if i am just arty or gay or what?
I work with a guy that is a director and girls you would SCREAM instantly that he is gay, flaming gay to see his dress, hear him talk-speak, mannerisms.. Guys straight as an arrow as far as i can tell and read on him, married with two teenage daughters... I dunno (now he could be closet gay or bi-but i honestly do not read that on him-or sense a vibe about it), hey he could be a transsexual you never know????? We live in a small world sometimes?
Ricki

Female vibe....ahhhhh the female energy or aura I have always talked about. :)

Although I agree with Steph.  It is only natural to display those traits, feelings, vibes if someone is female. ;)

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

Tink i said the same thing it just took me 20 minutes longer to type it all out!
some would say i put the "L" in long-winded
lol........ :P
Ricki

In my case it is definitely an innate tendency that has been there all along. In my old life I used to try like crazy to hold back the body language, suppress it, try to act masculine lest I be thought gay (that was a big fear of mine - but now as a woman guess what I am, haha) but after my epiphany I made a conscious effort to not hold back any more. And those around me noticed. Although for a while it was hard not to feel obligated to go too far the other way but that seems to have sorted itself out.

So I'd say it's instincts, made clear by not trying, which in turn is a result of confidence/conviction. :D

Yeah, it's definitely innate for me too.  I think it's basically a culmination of many, many things such as every little movement you do, every facial expression, how you talk, how you react, how you respond to things.  It's nothing you can fake and it's so complex that it only could be something that comes from inside naturally.

Melissa

Quote from: Melissa on January 21, 2007, 03:39:02 AM
Yeah, it's definitely innate for me too.
Melissa

Yeah, it's that innate trait that got me beat up so often in school.  Learning how to suppress that and pretend to be a guy is what I'm having to unlearn now.

It's a weird sort of "triple-think".  When I make a gesture, for example, the gesture may be unconscious, then the learned habit kicks in to suppress the gesture, *now* the "unlearn" habit kicks in and says it's ok to do that now and unsuppresses the gesture.

Soon of course I hope to unload ALL that baggage and just be me, Sandy.  Not Sandy->barry->SANDY(!!).

-Sandy (I'm getting dizzy!)

Quote from: umop ap!sdn on January 21, 2007, 01:00:03 AMIn my old life I used to try like crazy to hold back the body language, suppress it, try to act masculine lest I be thought gay... but after my epiphany I made a conscious effort to not hold back any more. And those around me noticed.

LOL, exactly the same here. Once I told management what I was doing, I finally just gave up pretending. It's like being able to *breath* again, the weight was off, and I could just be ME. The funny thing was TWO people last week independently said to me, "Stop acting like such a girl!" lol... NEVER!

Do I project a female vibe though? Heck, I dunno. I DO know when I'm being "me," but I guess I'll leave it to the people around me to classify it. As long as I'm able to be myself, that's good enough for me ;)

Kate

This is a very interesting topic, because I love to analyse things from an intellectual point of view.  (Even as a child, I was always the "Why?" bird.)

Why is it that we often present a female vibe (energy, aura... personally, I prefer the term aura), even when we're trying to present as males?   I beieve that the answer is just the same as has been said many times, that whether we are showing off our true form to the world (something I have only done once, and it was kind of a rushed instance) or trying to make the rest of society happy by fulfilling our birth gender roles, the fact is that the true side of us comes out whether we like it or not, we can try to supress it, but you cannot wholly supress what makes you an individual without losing that individuality forever, and if you lose that, then you're no longer a human, you're something more akin to a worker ant. 

Individuality is what makes humanity great, if we were all exactly the same, life would be pretty boring, wouldn't it?  Just think, there would be no music, literature, movies, or art of any form, there would be no scientists or teachers, we would all work office jobs or something, seperated into our own little cubicles, there would be no bosses because of the fact that that would give someone individuality due to their position above others, so what exactly would we do?

Anyway, back to the topic.  The truth is, our feminine aura, our vibe of femininity, is visible to any who take the time to look hard enough at us.  We always project it, whether we want to or not, and the more we try to surpress it, the more we try to capture it in our palms and hide it, the more chance it has of slipping through our fingers.

Quote from: Bev on January 14, 2007, 09:26:42 PM
During transition, even though I presented as male, I have had many acknowledging nods or smiles from lesbian couples or individuals.

This reminds me of something that happened to me one night at the club I usually go to on Sundays (I didn't go tonight because it snowed earlier, and it's probably going to again before the night's over.) At the club, I mostly present as semi-androgynous, because of the fact that I don't really want to let Raye loose there, at least not yet.  There is a lesbian couple that I often see out on the dance floor, and sometimes I just watch them and admire how beautiful they look together, or imagine what it would be to be like them, to have a girlfriend of my own, and have the rest of the club just sort of melt away into non-existance, just be me (as Raye, of course), my girlfriend, and the music.  Well, one night, I went out to the smoking patio to see who was there (I don't smoke cigarettes, I smoke cloves, and very rarely, as I very rarely have the money for them after shopping), and there was the taller one of the couple. (the one I identify most with, she's usually dressed in a schoolgirl outfit of sorts)  We got to talking, and during the conversation, she said that she felt something that she'd never felt in a guy, something that made her strangely attracted to me, and that was the reason why she had decided to talk to me.  This, I think, was my feminine aura that she felt, the part of Raye that will always show, no matter how hard I try to supress it.  Anyway, now that I have done another essay-length post, it is time I retreat to my bed.
Good Night,
Raye

Quote from: Kassandra on January 21, 2007, 10:57:16 AM
Yeah, it's that innate trait that got me beat up so often in school.  Learning how to suppress that and pretend to be a guy is what I'm having to unlearn now.

I'm glad times changed with me.  I just had friends try and "correct" my mannerisms trying to help me.  I got punched twice in Junior High and learned how to defend myself.  Since then 2 other people attempted to punch me, but I was able to dodge or block them.  However, not being very mean spirited myself, I didn't fight back at all.  Now I don't know if that was because of mannerisms or what.  The first guy I know did it just because he didn't like how I looked.  Memories.

Melissa