Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I'm sure you know what I mean: Boy meets girl, boy likes girl, girl likes boy, boy wants to take things further and... girl has history.  :-\  I've been thinking about this a LOT. I've been seeing this guy and I do like him, but before we take things to any next (physical) level I feel I should tell him something. I think when we're both standing there ready to jump in the sack it would be a bit too late to bring it up at that point. I really don't want to scare him away, but it is what it is. I've worked out a little speech that goes something like this-

QuoteBefore we take this further physically, I have to tell you that I had to have corrective surgery *down there* to fix a birth defect. It is all fixed now and I am a fully functional female, but I thought you should know. The birth defect I had was that I was a female born with male parts. That has been corrected and my parts are all female now. I hope that won't change your wanting to be with me...

... or something to that effect. Like I said I've thought about this for some time, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty so to speak what sounded good in theory before isn't so easy to do in practice now... I want to try and express it in the same way as I see it: as a corrected birth defect that has no bearing on how I perceive myself or how I expect to be treated. To avoid future issues I think it's important to disclose something sooner than later, but it's a delicate issue. I would like to hear how others have handled or plan to handle this situation?

I think that was the most wonderful way you could word a awkward message.  :laugh: Good luck sister!

This is a major issue which affects many member here. But keep in mind that if he is any good at all, it will be unimportant to him.

You are what you are. He likes what he's seen so far. There are many things which derail relationships. Often, when it seems like one thing, in reality, it's a lot of things with a last straw.

You should tell him, if you feel that serious. And like everything else in any relationship, take it from there.

I have to say that I am one of those who does disclose. My impression is that how someone reacts depends on how well you have chosen, but I personally have not encountered any rejections.

The only way I can rationalise the possibility of losing someone is that, if you do then they were never truly in love with the real me! Much as some of us might like to delude ourselves, we are all what we are, namely women who have had an unfortunate birth defect corrected and there is no getting away from that. If other people wish to place a less charitable interpretation on it then I, for one, would not wish to have them as my partner.

I think your statement is great. You must prepare yourself for the possibility of rejection, but, if you have chosen well, there is also a reasonable enough chance of success that it is worth taking the risk.

All I can say is good luck! :)

PS - I would add that the less discussion on your history the better, keep the disclosure as minimal as possible.  keep from rambling on about how difficult life used to be ....... Mystery is important to any relationship. Allow further disclosure to occur naturally over time as the relationship evolves.
BE CONFIDENT!!!! You are a beautiful woman  ;) It would be his lost! ohhhh and Chloe you need to call me because we have something to laugh about ummmmm ,let me see SUPER __ has done it yet AGAIN!!!! lol lol lol

Interesting this thread has come up as I am currently facing the same situation and have been thinking about the best way to approach the subject.  I don't want a relationship with secrets as sooner or later it comes back to haunt you.  The one thing I am sure of is if he likes you as a person it won't make any difference to the relationship.

I agree with keeping the information to a minimum and letting things reveal themselves as the relationship grows.  Mystery in a relationship can ber good to a certain degree.

I think just go for it, if he accepts great, if he doesn't, move on.

thanks for the replies. Valerie that is excellent advice and I agree with you. If asked I think it best as you say to just decline to talk about it. He's already asked me if I'd ever been married before and I just said "a long time ago, but it didn't work out," and left it at that.

Sui dear I'll call you soon :)

To me as I said I feel the best approach is to convey the information in the same way as I see it, and yes in as few words as possible. I also agree that if I'm going to be in a committed relationship with a man then I don't want those kinds of skeletons hanging about. Perhaps if I treat it as something I've dealt with in the past and moved on, something of which I'm cured and no longer holds that much relevance to my current life, then he will have a better chance to see it that way too.

The above advice is very good.  I would only add that disclosure should be done privately but in a public place.  You want to be safe if he reacts very negatively.

- Kate

I'm getting the TG symbol tattooed somewhere visible. I don't ever think I'll go completely all the way stealth (I will disclose), and I want to be viewed as completely honest from the first time a person even lays eyes on me. I already have a child, so I don't have a choice. There are many, many ways to disclose that information, and however you choose to do it make sure you can be protected. I don't think it's safe at all to lead someone on.

I am a woman and nothing other. That's what he sees and he likes what he sees.  I was a woman from the day I was born, albeit with a profound transsexual condition which has since been cured. Thus I am not being dishonest, certainly not leading someone on, which implies deception. In this particular instance, he is a very sweet gentleman and I expect he will be fine with it. I want to be honest with a potential love interest, and my personal rule is to not be intimate with someone without telling him.

However, to spare myself unnecessary grief I deem it prudent to wait and see if he is even interested and I can get to know him better and determine if he is indeed someone with whom I want to share this very personal and intimate information. Part of being careful is wisely choosing the time, place, and person with whom to disclose, before blurting out to everyone I meet the fact I was born with a birth defect. I'm in no immediate hurry and wish to take my time to be reasonably sure it will be okay first. As such, I know this man well enough, now, to know that his worst reaction would be one of disappointment but not very negatively as Kate mentioned. Still, yes I plan to tell him over dinner in a public place. I like him too, or else I wouldn't even bother going out.

My question was asked in the post-op forum to get an idea of how other post-op women have handled or plan to handle this situation, which affects us all (unless you already have a boyfriend who knows your history). The reason is because, as I alluded to in my original post, things can look quite a bit differently from this side of the scalpel. Many of us feel we have been cured of a particularly insidious affliction and simply want to get on with our normal lives now, so this is a very real concern for us.

I know.

I didn't have to comment, and I won't further until the surgery is done. :)

looking forward to your thoughts. :) Good luck!

"The other side of the scalpel" is a good way to put it, Chloe.  Before surgery I couldn't imagine not telling a potential lover of my past.  As I settle more and more into my life as the woman I always was, I am less certain. 

Because intercourse may be difficult in the beginning, I still think that I need to offer some explanation.  And because I live in a small place, any man I meet here would either already know or be able to find out easily.  But I am beginning to think that disclosure isn't always necessary before sex but can wait until the relationship begins to develop into something that might be long-term.

So far, though, it's all theoretical. :(

- Kate

After my surgery I was intimate with a guy without disclosing. I had decided already that he wasn't relationship material so I didn't really care to have to explain my past. A couple of times he looked at me funny like maybe he suspected something but I just smiled and kept doing whatever I was doing. I believe if I had told him at any time, before or after, then that would have ended it.

In 37 years this is something I have been through MANY times.

I have always felt that because of society's attitude, NOT disclosing to a serious love interest  is akin to dishonesty. I know what I am (a woman) and it is obvious to everyone around me but there are some a@@holes in this world so it would not be fair to a partner to not give them the chance to be prepared if it ever comes out (and it WILL, given enough time). If it is a one night stand or a wild weekend, it's nobody's business and everybody is getting what they want.

What I have learned is:

- Words are important
I was a girl born with a medical condition that left me infertile (more important if you are younger) and required medical intervention before I could be sexually active.

- Less is better
That's all I say initially. If the guy is sensitive, understanding, and it looks like the relationship has serious potential, and if he asks more about my childhood I will say that I was miss-gendered and everybody thought I was supposed to be a boy (and anybody who knows me even somewhat will see that as being a ridiculous situation). That's usually the end of it.

- The more weight you give it, the harder it will be to get past.
I treat is as a matter-of-fact situation that happened a long time ago (like having chicken pox!) and my confidence in myself plus the matter-of-fact approach usually defuses the whole thing - end of story, no problem.

I like your approach Jane and agree that the fewer words used, the better. Sometimes I feel it would be so much easier to just not say anything at all and I've considered that option, but I do want to respect the other person's sensibilities, as Valerie noted.

There's another side to this too which Kate hinted at, and that is waiting until the relationship develops into something that might be long term. My problem is that if the guy is someone I am really interested in I can become attached far too easily, which makes possible rejection more difficult and the need to disclose earlier rather than later more of a necessity for my own heart's sake. But then I guess every girl takes that chance in any new relationship; we just have an added cause for concern because of, as Kate's avatar text so succinctly puts it, our unusual provenance.

Quote from: Dàwkbua on March 21, 2011, 10:58:36 AM
After my surgery I was intimate with a guy without disclosing. I had decided already that he wasn't relationship material so I didn't really care to have to explain my past. A couple of times he looked at me funny like maybe he suspected something but I just smiled and kept doing whatever I was doing. I believe if I had told him at any time, before or after, then that would have ended it.

Knowing men, he was probably just feeling unsure of himself. Chances are, he was thinking his performance should have had you screeming and couldn't understand why.  :laugh:

Quote from: Northern Jane on March 21, 2011, 02:09:54 PM
- The more weight you give it, the harder it will be to get past.
I treat is as a matter-of-fact situation that happened a long time ago (like having chicken pox!) and my confidence in myself plus the matter-of-fact approach usually defuses the whole thing - end of story, no problem.

I think this is very true.  I think that disclosure is important for anything other than a one-night stand but should be handled as just part of one's past that is no longer important.  I know that when I've outed myself - it happens from time to time - the other person usually cues off of my attitude.  And my attitude is that this is something that happened, similar to getting divorced or moving cross-country - ordinary and done.

- Kate

well, last night I told him. For his, and my, response, I thought I'd start a new thread:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,95598.0.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,95598.0.html)

kind of nice how it worked out... ;)

I'm glad it sounds like he was a decent guy.

As an SO, I'm very glad my wife was willing to tell me (very early in our relationship).  Not that I need to know, or that it changed anything about how I saw her, but I know how incredibly difficult it was, how incredibly vulnerable it made her, and how many painful feelings of rejection it must have brought out, all at once.  That she trusted me said so much to me.

I wouldn't give advice personally on this to anyone - it's definitely not my place, and it's not my safety and personhood that is at risk, whatever is done.  All I can say is that from an SO's perspective, I'm glad she told me.

I also think that anyone that would be worth a long term relationship should be able to handle it.  If the can't, they are not worth a relationship.

If he's respectful, he won't pry or ask questions.  But I can say from my own experience, he's probably sincerely curious, so I wouldn't avoid any discussion about it *IF* you feel comfortable.  If you don't, don't sweat it.  He will be fine.

I'm glad he sounds decent, and congratulations on moving to a new level of honesty with him. That's not easy for anyone, but it is VERY worth it!

Quote from: Slanan on April 03, 2011, 06:16:36 PMAs an SO, I'm very glad my wife was willing to tell me (very early in our relationship).  Not that I need to know, or that it changed anything about how I saw her, but I know how incredibly difficult it was, how incredibly vulnerable it made her, and how many painful feelings of rejection it must have brought out, all at once.  That she trusted me said so much to me.

Thank you Slanan, your post brought tears to my eyes and you are very sweet. Those feelings of vulnerability and fear of rejection are very difficult to endure, and still I question if I did the right thing. But I agree with you that any relationship worth having should be able to weather through it. Your post has given me hope that it can work out maybe after all. :)

I agree with K8 that disclosure should be done in a public place (certainly not in the bedroom moments before getting it on!) its imperative we stay safe!!! I have been freaked out about the whole disclosure thing and find myself blurting it out as soon as it seems someone likes me / i like them. I tend to be ridiculously honest; lets see how it works out for me lol

Me personally have NEVER given myself up in the past until 2 weeks ago.  I dont think anyone should do that UNLESS you feel that the relationship is turning into LOVE on both ends.  DONT EVA OUT YOURSELF unnecessarily.  I had been dating this guy for 2 mths and he wanted to marry me the 2nd week after meeting.  I worded it the way you did and he was TOTALLY SHOCKED and somewhat confused.  His words were, "do u get a pap smear" and i said yes and he said "what do your medical records say gender wise" and i said FEMALE and he said well that is what u are END OF STORY.  NOw, i told him we HAD to discuss it further.  He didnt want to because he was still in a state of shock and he is TOTALLY homophobic.  He has told me some stories about terrorizing gay people and i totally showed my disapproval of that.  So I was sceptical at revealing myself and i was just going to walk away but that man looked me in my eyes when i tried to call it off and told me how much he loved me and he didnt know what it was but he has NEVER had a woman impact his life like me (which all men i have dated since surgery said they have NEVA met a woman like me and they are totally impresses) and if i choose to leave him that he is a BIG BOY and he will get over it but he would be crushed. 

I had NEVER NEVER NEVER had a man to see WHO i REALLY am before IN my life past the superficial and I NEEDED to know how he would respond by my telling him the WHOLE STORY.  I could have punked out and bowed out but this is my FIRST TIME revealing myself to a man and the outcome was WONDERFUL and i needed to know HOW a man would respond.  He STILL wants to marry me and he is even MORE clingy than before.  I am 10 mths post and Dr. Bowers looked me in my eye and told me that I DEFINITELY would be married within a year.  I didnt believe her at all but I had no CLUE on how that one little part got in my way of happiness with a man.  I have only dated straight men prior to because i was NOT a part of the gay transsexual scene in my city and i pretty much had been accepted in hetero society as a female even though every one had their doubts but men would be afraid to fall in love with me and run off once the realized they was falling for me. 

IF ANY of you on here are pre and are considering having a relationship with a straight male, surgery is a must because i feel that most men will date a pretty transsexual but when they start falling in love, they shy away in fear of feeling gay. 

Now my situation was different than a lot.  NO MAN had EVA seen my front and when i told them what i was most said "well i can roll with this, just dont EVA LET ME SEE IT" .  I actually would ONLY date a man who felt that way and if a man got curious about my front i would drop him like a hot potato. 

All n all, it is a personal decision on how any of us handle this situation but it takes just as much time and effort to get used to dating men as a full functioning female as well as getting used to our new bodies.

Our womanhood isnt taken for granted like natal females are and men APPRECIATE a REAL WOman and they know it when they see it.  We posses that because we have been deprived of our natural womanhood by society and parents so when we are able to sprout, we have a tendency to do a better job at being women and men are TRULY drawn to it but they dont know why. 

Being a WOman is a state of being of the mind and having the vessel only makes u a female. 

I just thought I'd share my thoughts and experiences.

Of course I'm only 1 month post-op when posting this and my dating profile still says:

Quote
I am a transsexual woman. What does this mean? It means I was born with the heart and soul of a baby girl in the body of a baby boy. That has been fixed and I am completely female, although I cannot bear children.

I figure at least until I'm recovered from the surgery, I'm going to leave it up.

Pre-op, I wavered between outing myself on my profile and not. I've only been on a couple of dates where the guy didn't know ahead of time about my past. Those times were the most painful when I ended up telling him.

In the future, I hope to not need to 'out' myself until it becomes serious. I'm not sure what that means at this point.

I will say that doing it in a public place was very smart and I'm so glad everything turned out well for you, Chloe =) I also really liked your explanation of it better. Maybe I'll use something like that on my profile instead for now.

I've been stealth since the 90s and even after all these years this issue still does my head in.  I've tried it all - being upfront on dating sites, telling on the first date, telling after a few dates, telling after intimacies and not telling at all.

There are problems with all the approaches but I have to say that the closest relationships I've had have been with men where I was upfront with an ad. I think it's very hard to get really close when you are hiding the elephants in your past.  I never, ever go to bars to get picked up because 1) I worry about when or if I should tell and 2) guys who hang around bars are more likely to be violently inclined.

Nothing in this game is easy. When I tell, I just say I've had sex change surgery and live unequivocally in the female role and that's how the world sees me.

Quote from: xchrisx on April 04, 2011, 07:40:13 AM
I agree with K8 that disclosure should be done in a public place (certainly not in the bedroom moments before getting it on!)

Indeed, NOT like happened with my second husband. In bed, after making love, I started to cry and he asked what was wrong so I told him. He cried to and held me tight, so I cried some more LOL! That situation got ahead of me - I planned to tell him earlier but ..... (damned hormones!)

Lots of great food for thought in this thread and I just want to say that I'm thankful for women like Northern Jane who, with all their years experience, come back here and dish great advice.  Actually, I'm not meaning to discount anything in this thread because it's all been great.

As for my thoughts, we'll just have to wait and see after I'm on the good side "of the scalpel."

Quote from: Valeriedances on April 25, 2011, 03:49:58 PMI honestly didnt know if I was going to make it out of there alive.

I know. Unfortunately the marriage only lasted 13 years  ;D

Thanks Jen.