Susan's Place Transgender Resources

I have a problem where I got a baby face, and I'm short. Despite piercings and a tattoo, I am always mistaken for 12/13 years old. (Whether they believe I am a boy or girl). I'm twenty now! I don't go to bars, but I find that it's problematic when getting a job because looking twelve seems to make people believe I'm immature or irresponsible. It's also problematic when thirteen year old girls (some lesbian, some straight) hit on me.

So anyone got tips on how to appear older? When I wear more 'grown up' clothes I end up looking like a kid who played dress up in his parents closet! I figured this would be a good thread because I know a lot of trans guys have trouble looking their own age. My mom was ID'd until she was 30, trying to get into bars. We have very young faces in our family. I'm scared I'll be 30 and still looking 12/13.

Despite piercings and a tattoo

Drop both, buy a suit, learn to wear it, get knowledge.  No one will ever take you more seriously than you take yourself.

Wearing a suit, I'd probably just look like a boy on his way to a bar mitzvah.

Don't worry, you look like a boy.

Let me know when you want to get it on as a man.

Quote from: PandaValentine on March 28, 2011, 12:51:43 AM
Wearing a suit, I'd probably just look like a boy on his way to a bar mitzvah.

LOL, that's funny :P

But I agree.  I think you have better luck looking more grown up with piercings and tattoos than a suit.  Particularly because little kids can't legally get those, but they can wear suits.


Besides, you also got to do what suits you.  It seems like your style is piercings and tattoos, so to drop all that and go to a suit might be too uncomfortable because it's not YOU.  you know?

Quote from: JohnAlex on March 28, 2011, 12:58:36 AM
I think you have better luck looking more grown up with piercings and tattoos than a suit.  Particularly because little kids can't legally get those, but they can wear suits.

I disagree. Tattoos and piercings on someone who looks like a 12yr old boy will almost certainly hinder passing.

It's probably something you'll just have to put up with for a while. If you have a young face then there isn't much you can do about it for now. If you're worried about style, see what local men of your age are wearing and try and go for something similar.

I have a baby face too. When I was 20 I looked 12 as a girl, would have looked about 8 with a boy's haircut. I'm 28 now and it was...maybe the last 2 years where I could go into a bar in girl mode and not be carded by every. single. staff. member. who saw me. And have my ID taken somewhere and examined under those special lights. Five times in one night.

And now I pass as male, I'm back to looking 15. (At least 15's slightly better than 8, but still.) Back to the incessant carding, the comments from waitresses about how their 17-year-old sons look older than me, the strange looks when I say things like "I haven't played soccer since I was a kid."

There's not much you can do about it. Clothes don't make the slightest bit of difference - I dress my age, have no body mods, it doesn't matter. Five years of smoking may have helped a little bit (I credit that for making me look 15) but a lot of it is in stuff you can't change, the baby face, the round head, the undeveloped arm muscles, the high voice.

Quote from: tekla on March 28, 2011, 12:35:31 AM
Despite piercings and a tattoo

Drop both, buy a suit, learn to wear it, get knowledge.  No one will ever take you more seriously than you take yourself.

errrr what?  You think a suit makes someone serious? and tattoo and piercings dont? It's about respect and you're not showing Pandavalentine any, come back when you can show some respect.

Quote from: Gabby on March 28, 2011, 09:08:46 AM
errrr what?  You think a suit makes someone serious? and tattoo and piercings dont? It's about respect and you're not showing Pandavalentine any, come back when you can show some respect.

It seems to me that advice was asked for, and given, respectfully, on both sides. I happen to agree that tattoos and piercings are not the way to show maturity.

for me, i don't pass very well because i'm not on t yet, but in general i think the way you act and speak (language, not deepness of voice) does a lot for presenting as older. however, clothes do go a long way and i think some of the guys here try to pass by wearing those sideways hats and skater tshirts. thats AWESOME if that's how you like to dress, but don't expect to be seen as a businessman in his thirties.

Glasses often make me look older than I actually am, and did even when I was presenting female. Don't know if that's an option for you, but it does help if you get the right kind. Wearing glasses (and doing everything I mention in the next paragraphs), when I was 14-15, I was read as at least 18+, usually in my twenties, and consistently got offered alcohol at restaurants.

For getting a job, I have to agree that piercings are not the way to appear mature and responsible. I'm personally a fan of body mods (on other people), but that's the truth. Depends on the kind of job, of course, but unless it's a student job or casual/alternative place like a coffee shop, piercings will hurt more than just looking young. If you really want to keep the piercings, make sure you're dressed well. "Well" doesn't need to mean a suit, although you should be wearing one if you're interviewing. Your clothes should be consistently clean, unwrinkled, and without visible wear and tear. More conservative colours are helpful, depending on where you live.

Most of it is how you carry yourself and how you speak. Etiquette 101 may be helpful here. Don't slouch, firm handshake, always annunciate, etc. If you do that all properly, you'll be better off than the majority of American college age male job applicants. And think of yourself as mature. If you get ready in the morning and you're sure you're going to appear a 12 year old boy, that can slip into your behavior. On a related note: please, please try to limit, if not eliminate, the number of times you say "um," "like," and "yeah."

Hair cut can change my age a lot. Longer hair - look younger, buzzed hair - my ageish. Might be worth it to experiment with yoru hair

First thing you may want to do is to define the type of job you are looking for. Some jobs you will find that due to the image that the company wants to show,piercings will be a big no no. Some jobs they may be an asset and others they will be neither good or bad so to say. Then look at how others dress for that job. If it is an office job there will be certain attire that is deemed proper attire for a factory type job it will be something else,sales depending on what is being sold may be something different.

Like it or not the reality is that if you are trying to be a stock broker and try going in wearing piercings it is not going to fly. Working in a tattoo parlor it would be perfectly fine.

I disagree. Tattoos and piercings don't make someone immature or less of an adult. Plenty of people that have tattoos and piercings and are successful in life. Look at how many fighters have tattoos. Do you think they don't take themselves seriously? You think anyone would dare to insinuate that they're foolish and immature for having tattoos?

Manyu people would insinuate that fighters in themselves are foolish and stupid. I would not saying picking the career of a fighter is a good example. Look at the professional world, you don't see doctors, psychiatrists, teachers, lawyers or professors running around with visible tatoos or piercings that aren't in the ear. Many places will not hire you if you cannot conceal your stuff as it is considered unprofessional. But there are plently of older careers that do allow you to have such things such as mechanics etc.. I guess it's more what kind of niche in society and what kind of career you are pursuing that is going to change how you are going to be judged about your tatoos and piercings.

Actually there was a teacher at my local high school, full sleeve tattoos on both arms, including neck tattoos. I really hated never getting to be in his class, he was such a cool teacher. Anyways I was just trying to state that those things couldn't make me look older when most people under 16 don't have tattoos. I am in no way considering taking out my piercings or covering my tattoo, if that puts a job opportunity in the trash, I couldn't care less because it's no different then saying present 'female' and it's more likely you'll be hired or taken seriously than the way you appear as a male. An old friend of mine a few years back wanted me to work with her at Walmart, but I wasn't allowed to show my tattoo, wear any shirts that supported my opinions (like sport teams), and I wasn't allowed anything other than dress pants. They literally take things way to seriously, is a customer really going to get upset that a cashier has a rival sports team shirt on?

My point is I don't want a job where they are going to ask me to be a different person, I'm not that kind of person who can do that. However it's more than just for a 'job' that I don't want to appear twelve. It affects my personal life. I was hit on by a thirteen year old and flirted back once because I thought she was older than that. I felt like a freaking pedophile... That and girls are just developing way to early these days! Looking twelve affects many aspects of my life. I can pass for 14-16 in pictures but in real life I get the kiddy treatment. I can still get into certain places at kid prices! The only time I EVER look older is when I'm with my nephew and people think he's my son, but then I just wonder if they think I'm a twelve year old with a kid.

I really liked you're advice Nikolai. I actually had some fake glasses since I don't use real ones, and you're right they make me look older. I feel at least 14-16 in them. I also used to pass more when wearing them. Hmm, I'll think about wearing them from now on, might not be a bad idea.

I guess if I try to carry myself more like an adult, perhaps I'll look older, I do tend to slump around like a teenager. But it's mostly because I still feel like I'm 17 or something. Growing up is no fun, but it's also no fun being called a little kid, and preteen!

I'm twenty too, and look very young. I think a large part of it is about carrying yourself as an adult - if you stand up straight and confident, like you know you're an adult, and better than everyone else goddamnit, then people will just take you for older.
Smoking helps too, but I don't suggest you start  :icon_redface:

Quote from: PandaValentine on March 28, 2011, 11:11:07 PM
I am in no way considering taking out my piercings or covering my tattoo, if that puts a job opportunity in the trash, I couldn't care less because it's no different then saying present 'female' and it's more likely you'll be hired or taken seriously than the way you appear as a male. An old friend of mine a few years back wanted me to work with her at Walmart, but I wasn't allowed to show my tattoo, wear any shirts that supported my opinions (like sport teams), and I wasn't allowed anything other than dress pants. They literally take things way to seriously, is a customer really going to get upset that a cashier has a rival sports team shirt on?

Kid, ya got a lot of growing up in the wider world to do ;) I'm not trying to to be a smart ass dick saying something like that but what you said above just totally "outs" you as immature - at least in some areas.

You know why they make you dress a certain way at jobs like Walmart? It's because they have a uniform/dress code that corporate dictates so all of their employees can be seen as employees and customers can easily spot them as employees. It's also because a corporation is trying to uphold an image and, much like schools that have uniforms and dress codes, they're trying to avoid distractions and disruptions. Depending on the company, the uniform might be stricter than others. Target let's you wear just about any type of plain red shirt. But if you're signed on as a security guard at the mall, then you'll have to wear a whole uniform that a security guard would wear.

When you're not being financially funded by parents or anyone else, you'll also realize that sometimes you have a to take a job you might not even like just to get the bills paid or to not get kicked out of your apartment or college. Very few people are lucky enough to have to never have done that. So at some point in time, you might have to cover a tattoo or two. Otherwise you need to get into a field that will allow you self expression. Some arts, music ... creative stuff ... that affords a lot of leeway in appearances. But even though I actually do work in a creative field, I know when I need to step up my appearance in the clothing department. Creative field or not, when you're representing a company and you're meeting with a very large, very important client, you're not going to show up in your dirty jeans and your favorite sports team's jersey.

That said, I actually don't believe clothes make you smarter or more "grown up". Clothes are a tool when it really comes down to it. Many people that you interact with are going to judge you from your appearance alone. I'm all about self-expression and wearing what makes you feel comfortable, etc. on a daily basis. When I was 20, I was all "f**k that I'll wear what I like!" With every ->-bleeped-<- retail or service job I had I'd try to bend the rules as far as they would go before they'd fire me. But there are times when you use clothes to change people's impressions of you. Believe me, I'm way past 20 and well into 30s now and I still wear skinny jeans, have funky hair, wear band t-shirts and chuck taylors - so yeah, a lot of people think I AM 20 and I still have enough of that young punk attitude in me to not give a ->-bleeped-<-, but I know when I need to look a certain way (to basically get what I want - to make the impression I want, etc).

Most of the actual advice on looking older usually applies to females (wear more makes up, blah blah blah) and when it applies to males, you'll usually hear things like, grow a beard. Well, there's plenty of guys out there that can't actually grow a full beard so that's kinda lame advice but here's a few things that might help ...

1. (already mentioned but I agree with it) Glasses - of course if you don't normally wear glasses you'll just need to get non-prescription lens ones (which they do sell)

2. Accessories - these can definitely set you apart from the 12 year old crowd. A nice leather messenger bag ... a nice watch ... scarfs ... hats ...

3. Clothes - doesn't have to be suit ... because really, where do guys wear suits? Only in a small percentage of situations (high power corporate stuff, funerals/weddings/etc, really nice expensive restaurants or clubs ....) You can wear ties. In fact you can work ties even into "hipster" wardrobes. 12 year olds never wear ties unless they're forced to (or they're some really odd uber geek kid haha). Leather jackets. 12 year olds do not usually have hip, leather jackets. v-neck t's. non-distressed jeans (yeah a lot of people of every age wear distressed jeans but if you're having trouble that will only make you look younger). None of the clothes have to be too far out of your regular comfort zone, but you should have some nicer stuff to use as "tools" like I mentioned above.

4. Attitude - tougher to nail this one down and make it work, but observe kids and teenagers and you'll notice they all act certain ways. When you're 20, you're only 2 years from being one of those teenagers so you have to look to older individuals to get a feel for "age-appropriateness". Also just having confidence, standing up straight... that kind of thing can help.

5. Work out - 12 years old don't have a lot of developed muscles.

6. Speech - if you're with your peers you often have a certain way you act and talk. If you want to appear older around different crowds though, switch that up. Don't use the same slang and swear words you'd use with your buddies when you're working at your job (or meeting with employers or other adults you don't know on a friendly, personal basis).

Anyway, good luck with it all.

Try to buy some clothes second-hand. I don't know how well it will work for you, but the second-hand shop that's close to me sells a lot of clothes that have been originally owned by older people. This means that thay aren't really "trendy" or "hip", but can still look good. A "cool" 13-yo boy wouldn't be caught dead in "older men's clothes", so maybe they would make you look more mature.

Alright I guess I never made myself clear, I am not looking to get a job at any place that doesn't hire  you because of a piercing or two. My actual interest was in getting a job at a tattoo studio but the fact that I'm young looking really affects me. I was never meant for a job in the corporate world. My mom works in an office where it's the same 5 people every day, and they only deal with people over the phones, yet they have to keep up a dress code and she really hates it, it's literally pointless.

I'm personally working on starting my own clothing line 'online', because hey, it's the clothes I want to wear everyday, even if that means just underwear.   :D  But at the moment I'm still creating all the designs and I need a new job because the one I have doesn't pay enough so I can invest in getting the prototypes created. I'm only one fourth of the way to covering my surgery. My job right now is just babysitting, it's low pay and not 5 days a week, usually 3-4 but even then it's not enough to get by on. Right now the job market is really bad too, but still I'd never work at Walmart, EVER!

Alright so onto the accessories, I agree on a nice looking watch, one that doesn't have little Reptar dinosaurs like an old watch I had. But what kind of hat and scarf? The hat's I have now are all baseball caps and what not, but of course I know those make me look young. Fedoras really do not suit me, I tried wearing them but they look funny on me! I cut my hair short to look older, and also because it helps me pass but too short makes my head look female so I have to have a faux hawk in the middle to keep it looking male. People of all ages have them.

I do love ties, I actually try to wear them, people say I look like a tattoo artist, still young though. But I agree, what kids wear ties? I like that option!  I love wearing ties. No thanks to anything leather. I do want to get a nice guys jacket but it's hard because none of them ever fit right because I'm small. It so does not help being short! 

I'm kinda sucky at putting "outfits" together myself but I'm trying. I get a lot of ideas of the Urban Outfitters site cause that's got a number of things I like.

As for hats - I see a lot of dudes rocking these now (they're smaller than a reg fedora so they look good on even if you're small usually):
http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/productdetail.jsp?itemdescription=true&itemCount=80&startValue=1&selectedProductColor=&sortby=&id=20012050&parentid=MENS_ACCESSORIES&sortProperties=+subCategoryPosition,+product.marketingPriority&navCount=18&navAction=jump&color=&pushId=MENS_ACCESSORIES&popId=MENS&prepushId=&selectedProductSize= (http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/urban/catalog/productdetail.jsp?itemdescription=true&itemCount=80&startValue=1&selectedProductColor=&sortby=&id=20012050&parentid=MENS_ACCESSORIES&sortProperties=+subCategoryPosition,+product.marketingPriority&navCount=18&navAction=jump&color=&pushId=MENS_ACCESSORIES&popId=MENS&prepushId=&selectedProductSize=)

I'm not as into their scraves. I'd go with plain ones are maybe a plaid if you can pull it off.

I've actually scored a number of fly leather jackets in the chick's department. It's taken me a while to find ones that are "just right" that don't have to much of a female cut going on. I'd had other dudes compliment me on my jacket collection  ;D 

I was thinking of snapping this one up:
https://www.attitudeclothing.co.uk/product_19395-72-1098_Fitted-Leather-Biker-Jacket.htm (https://www.attitudeclothing.co.uk/product_19395-72-1098_Fitted-Leather-Biker-Jacket.htm)
It looks like it's way more fitted than the guy's ones I see in the states here and it does come in small. That's not a bad price for real leather too.

I've been to urban outfitters actually, though I usually go to thrift shops now just because I don't really know if they get their clothes from sweat shops, that's always kind of bothered me. Yeah, those hats are not for me either. But I went to check out the guys clothes on that site and was like "What the ->-bleeped-<-, 135 dollars for a shirt?" The clothes look like they are five bucks yet sell for fifty. Are they name brand or something or is the store just nuts? I hate spending a lot of money on clothes, but I HATE shopping around for good deals. Thrift stores are easy, it's cheap, I can grab what I want and go, everything in one store, plus they have awesome retro stuff!

I've actually passed better wearing girls clothes than I have wear guys clothes actually, just because they look well fitted. The only thing that I do own now that is girls clothing are a pair of jeans. I hate clothes though, I avoid spending money on them at all costs. My mom will see that and offer to buy me clothes because of it. I own one pair of jeans because the thought of shopping makes me want to bring a gun along with me so I can off myself in one of the 'female' dressing rooms since very few stores have a unisex area to change, and I never know what size I wear in pants, only in tops.

It's actually a really nice jacket, I'd want it if it wasn't leather.

I haven't seen it mentioned, so I figured I'd ask - have you experimented with shoes?

Both boys and men wear running shoes, but boots and dress shoes are largely exclusive to men, at least from what I've noticed. A pair of non-clunky boots (ie. ones that don't look oversized on you) might be worth checking out. Maybe even cowboy boots, if you're so inclined?

Quote from: Renard on March 29, 2011, 11:25:10 PM
I haven't seen it mentioned, so I figured I'd ask - have you experimented with shoes?

Both boys and men wear running shoes, but boots and dress shoes are largely exclusive to men, at least from what I've noticed. A pair of non-clunky boots (ie. ones that don't look oversized on you) might be worth checking out. Maybe even cowboy boots, if you're so inclined?

Hmmmm shoes. I have to say I don't see many kids in boots, unless they are rain boots. ;P I'll look into shoes more, see what I can find that looks more adult than just wearing simple high tops. Thanks.

It probably doesn't help I drew all over my shoes!

It probably doesn't help I drew all over my shoes!

Um - yes :). Just don't get any of those daft shoes with the golfer's tassles on, that's just humiliating.

One thing that may help with looking older is to make it so that your sideburn hair has a defined boundary, like this:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.details.com%2Fimages%2F.a%2F6a00d8341cc8d453ef0115711e68f5970c-pi.jpg&hash=dfe12b856c57470feb509f74640ca1c6e399fe69)

Try experimenting with make-up to simulate the appearance of sideburn stubble. Start with eyeshadow as a base, and then with an eyebrow pencil, draw over the area with a large number of small, light strokes. I draw my eyebrows on, and I've found that the key to making it simulate the texture of hair is to make plenty of small, light strokes, instead of drawing one line. If your hair is dark enough, for extra effect, you may even try applying glue stick over the area before applying the eyeshadow and pencil, and applying coffee grounds afterwards. A girl I know did that once when she dressed up in drag and it ended up looking pretty realistic. I wish you the best of luck! :)

On the subject of female dressing rooms...most stores don't care which dressing room you go to. I can't tell you how many times my dad has used the women's dressing room just because it's closer, and he's a bearded, balding, hypermasculine man. No one has ever kicked him out or anything.
That said, he's never been to one who required an attendant, that would be a different story methinks.
Just thought I'd throw that in.

i'm pretty much in the same boat (pass as ~16 due to height, though, but i'm 27, and even dressed as a girl i could always ride on kids' tickets), here's a couple of tricks that help:

1- if you have a rather round face, grow your hair out about an inch, make them cut the sides somewhat shorter than the top with sort of pointed bangs(creates the appearance of very slight widow peaks)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v_XmFldezKE/TAbAbGFD78I/AAAAAAAAAh4/S-HV8h7GuPg/s400/Latest%2BHairstyle,%2BHaircuts%2Bfor%2BMen.jpg (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_v_XmFldezKE/TAbAbGFD78I/AAAAAAAAAh4/S-HV8h7GuPg/s400/Latest%2BHairstyle,%2BHaircuts%2Bfor%2BMen.jpg)
that's the best picture i found, of course you don't need to make your hair stand up like that

2. apply colored (!) eyebrow gel to eyebrows and surrounding baby hairs; the gel only sticks to the hairs, not the skin, so it will give the appearance of thicker, darker, longer eyebrow hairs.

3. if you want to use a bronzer, you can make your cheekbones stand out more with that, i found a youtube tutorial for guy make-up that shows you how to do that but i lost the link,...if you care to know how that works i can make a tutorial. i also made a tutorial on how to make your jawline look more masculine, but i know most guys don't like to use anything that falls remotely in the make-up category, however you really might want to try the eyebrow gel, because thick eyebrows help more than most anything!

4. no hats. women generally have smaller heads than men, hats make your head look smaller still, if your head appears small than people will categorize you as someone going through puberty.