Susan's Place Transgender Resources

QuoteGender-neutral or epicene pronouns are pronouns that neither reveal nor imply the gender or the sex of a person.

Androgynous pronouns are pronouns that can refer to no, both, or all genders.

Many languages do not have gender distinctions as an intrinsic part of the language: though it is always possible to specify whether one is talking about a male or female, the language does not require one to make that choice. In such languages, all pronouns are 'gender-neutral', and there is little more to be said.

In some languages — notably most Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic languages — some personal pronouns intrinsically distinguish male from female; and the selection of a pronoun necessarily specifies at least to some extent the gender of what is referred to. Since at least 1795[1], some people have felt this requirement to be unsatisfactory (see Gender-neutral language) and there have been attempts to devise sets of pronouns which do not require the speaker to make the distinction, since sometime around 1850.[2] These are what is usually meant by gender-neutral pronouns.

The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is often interpreted by non-linguists to mean that people will be less sexist if they do not distinguish gender in pronouns or other aspects of speech. Patriarchal societies with genderless languages, such as the Chinese, demonstrate that gendered pronouns are not a prerequisite for inequality to exist.

English and Russian both have gender-neutral forms for the third person plural pronouns: 'they'/'them' and они (oni).


Historically, there were two gender neutral pronouns native to English dialects, 'ou' and 'a', but they have long since died out.

Languages with gender-neutrality in pronouns
Icelandic
Turkish
Nahuatl

Chinese Originally, Chinese had no distinction for gender in the second- and third-person pronouns, and no distinction for animacy in the third-person either. In fact, in the spoken language, they remain undifferentiated. These characters were created in response to contact with the West and its gender- and animacy-indicating pronouns. (It is not unusual for native Chinese speakers to fail to differentiate between "he" and "she" in English.)

tan, "he, she, him, her"
tant, "they two, them two"
tans, "they, them"
tand, "he, she, him, her, they, them"

Japanese
he / she -
ano kata あのかた あの方 very formal 
ano hito あのひと あの人 formal lit. 'that person'
yatsu やつ 奴 informal a thing (very informal)
aitsu あいつ 彼奴 (rarely used) very informal, often hostile 

Korean

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun

This article does make a valid point in that using gender neutral language doesnt mean that a society will become less sexist. Taking the example of Chinese is a definate example. Japanese is very much another example, although leaps and bounds of progress in art, animation, manga, music and other similar areas society are more accepting. Japan has only just recently started recognizing transsexualism politically. Take for example a recent example of Japan's law  which does not allow a person to alter records of birth sex.

QuoteThe court said that the man was "biologically female at the time of birth," and that therefore the original records could not be changed.

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2003/01/24/4

"Why have Gender Neutral Pronouns then?"

One suggestion comes from a FAQ, which I found to have some merit.

QuoteI want to get rid of gender-specific pronouns because people react differently in situations where they know the sex. Even if all words but the pronouns in a sentence are identical, people impose their own meanings based on the presumed sex of the person under discussion. This is because people have their own ideas of what male and female motivations/capabilities are. (This might be especially true in sex-stereotyped situations, such as crying, screaming, yelling, chewing tobacco, playing football, etc.) However, you might want to write something or speak about something that engages people's minds and not their presuppositions, and you might not want them to know which sex you are talking about.

From http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/

Also from the same Faq more about ancient english pronouns

QuoteBut English once had gender-neutral pronouns here — "ou" and "a", which evolved out of the Old and Middle English gendered pronouns "he" (male) and "heo" (female). "He" and "heo" began sounding the same, and it's possible that the modern word "she" was created around the twelfth century partially to increase the gender division. These early GNPs eventually died out in common usage.

From http://www.aetherlumina.com/gnp/

I like the comments and reply section. Many arguments are modelled in this section which I find illuminating. such as

QuoteIt's true that you can't mandate the speech of others. Research has shown that, with language use, coercion is ineffective. To get someone to change eir language, one must convince em that it's a good idea to change.

Feminist movement has been advocating gender neutrallity for years now.

QuoteFeminism is a collection of social theories, political movements, and moral philosophies largely motivated by or concerned with the liberation of women. A large portion of feminists are especially concerned with what they perceive to be the social, political and economic inequality between the sexes which favours the male gender; some have argued that gendered and sexed identities, such as "man" and "woman", are socially constructed. Feminists disagree over the sources of inequality, how to attain equality, and the extent to which gender and gender-based identities should be questioned and critiqued. In simple terms, feminism is the belief in social, political and economic equality of the sexes, and a movement organized around the belief that gender should not be the pre-determinant factor shaping a person's social identity or socio-political or economic rights.

Modern feminist political activists commonly campaign on issues such as reproductive rights, including the right to safe, legal abortion, access to contraception and quality prenatal care, protection from violence within a domestic partnership, sexual harassment, street harassment, discrimination and rape, and rights to maternity leave, and equal pay. Many feminists today argue that feminism is a grass-roots movement that seeks to cross boundaries based on social class, race, culture and religion. They also argue that an effective feminist movement should be culturally specific and address issues relevant to the women of the society in question such as female genital cutting in Africa and the Middle East and the "glass ceiling" issue in developed economies. They also debate the extent to which certain societal issues such as rape, incest and mothering are universal. Themes explored in feminism include patriarchy, stereotyping, sexual objectification and oppression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

And why.

QuoteEffect on language
English-speaking feminists are often proponents of what they consider to be non-sexist language, using "Ms." to refer to both married and unmarried women, or "he or she" (or other gender-neutral pronouns) in place of "he" where the gender is unknown. Feminists are also often proponents of using gender-inclusive language, such as "humanity" instead of "mankind". Feminists in most cases advance their desired use of language either in the interest of equal and respectful treatment of women or in order to affect the tone of political discourse. These feminists argue that language directly affects perception of reality (compare Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis), and move to change language which may be viewed as imbued with sexism, for example the case in the English language in which the word for the general pronoun is "he" or "his" (The child should have his paper and pencils), which is the same as the masculine pronoun (The boy and his truck).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

What is this Sapir–Whorf hypothesis?

QuoteSapir–Whorf hypothesis (SWH) states that there is a systematic relationship between the grammatical categories of the language a person speaks and how that person both understands the world and behaves in it. Although it has come to be known as the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis, it rather was an axiom underlying the work of linguist and anthropologist Edward Sapir and his colleague and student Benjamin Whorf.

Put simply, the hypothesis argues that the nature of a particular language influences the habitual thought of its speakers. Different patterns of language yield different patterns of thought. This idea challenges the possibility of representing the world perfectly with language, because it acknowledges that the mechanisms of any language affect its users. The hypothesis emerged in many formulations, some weak and some strong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_hypothesis

Is it true that the nature of a particular language influences the habitual thought of its speakers? Certainly the chinese, and japanese examples put evidence against this rational. At least weakens the benefit of having such commonly used pronouns.

In the end, the reason I think I like using them occasionally is found in these two reasons.

I think this reason primarily
1.

QuoteI do care about the cause of women, but I don't use GNPs because of some feminist theory or for purposes of social activism, I just use them because that's how I feel comfortable expressing myself.

Because that's how I feel comfortable expressing myself.

and secondary

2.

QuoteI want to get rid of gender-specific pronouns because people react differently in situations where they know the sex. Even if all words but the pronouns in a sentence are identical, people impose their own meanings based on the presumed sex of the person under discussion. This is because people have their own ideas of what male and female motivations/capabilities are.

are my two main reasons I have used them.

All Romance languages (Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese, Esperanto, Catalan, Romanian, and the rest) are very sexist.  My French teacher used to say that Romance languages define gender in terms of importance.  For example, in all Romance languages, the sun is male for it is important in order for us to live, no one could live if there was no sun.  On the contrary, the moon is female, for it is there to "look pretty", but it is not important enough to live without.  Likewise, a car is male, for it takes you wherever you go, it is important in today's society to get around, while a bicycle is female, also a means of transportation, but much slower, less important than a car.   ::) ::) Her explanation of things certainly made me feel better... ::) ::)

When you are a Romance Language native speaker, it is much difficult for your family and friends to get the right pronouns.  They not only have to deal with "he" or "she" but with every single adjective in the alphabet, for each adjective has to be modified to the male or female form to reflect the person's gender.  So now you kitties know what we have to deal with... :)

tinkerbell :icon_chick:

I don't believe in Sapir-Whorf -- that if a language doesn't contain a form of expression you can't conceive the thought.  (The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis played a big part in the plot of '1984', with the idea that if you came up with a new language that didn't contain ways to express undesirable thoughts, the undesirable thoughts would die away.  "It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.")

We can conceive and think concepts where there are no tools (words/phrases) to adequately encode and transmit them.  Consider the word 'Karma' -- it takes a paragraph at least to define what Karma means.  After that, we use the word to shortcut the idea.

Japanese is a very sexist society, and yet they have genderless forms of expression.  But the indication of gender can sneak into the conversation without ever using a word that is strictly defined as HE or SHE -- there are other mechanisms to indicate the gender of ano kata/ano hito ('that person over there'.)  The listener will know the gender as surely as we know from HE or SHE.

A majority of people (the 'gender defenders' as Kate Bornstein called them,) will want to stick you in the 'boy box' or 'girl box', just like they stick tires, tractors, tea spoons and tomatoes into either the boy or the girl boxes.

I'd like a gender-optional society.  I just don't see it ever happening.

Karen

Quote from: Tinkerbell on January 21, 2007, 11:37:48 PM
When you are a Romance Language native speaker, it is much difficult for your family and friends to get the right pronouns.  They not only have to deal with "he" or "she" but with every single adjective in the alphabet, for each adjective has to be modified to the male or female form to reflect the person's gender.  So now you kitties know what we have to deal with... :)

My understanding from my linguistics classes is that word "gender" is just an unfortunate case of a label being used, "gender," when attaching it to a set for adding certain phenomes.  It's easy enough to deconstruct in German, where there are three singular "genders," die, das, and der.

Der=="masculine"==vater==father
Das=="neuter"==madchen==girl
Die=="feminine"==mutter==mother

Of course, that's just the German language, but this specifically came up in my last semester class, which specialized in morphology & syntax, where the (female) professor specifically said that "gender" was just the unfortunate word they used and called it.  Sometimes there is an alignment, such as mother and father above, but girl being neuter?  Unless we're really just metaphorically de-gendering young female children (boys do not have such a problem) . . . there are plenty of examples, I am sure; but I only know zie german (and only enough to get in trouble).

And whoever said the moon was just pretty and didn't need to exist for life, I'd invite them to look at the tides.   :)

Not that our languages aren't loaded with misogyny and other assorted bigotry; but languages evolve, or else there wouldn't be different languages.  So, let's evolve our languages.   :D