Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Okay...

I caved to the idea of asking for help. HELP!! I am just another typical redhead, geeky, lesbian, XY woman in her twenties. Back in December 2009, I happily went through the experience of GRS (ironically introducing me to a well known author) thanks to Dr. Brassard. I am completely frustrated about my sexual experience following surgery. I have been pre-orgasmic since surgery. I could filter this topic to make it all age appropriate but that is not my intent. I want to restore my state of being orgasmic. I do not want to have to have a discussion with another woman about how its not her doing things wrong. Its embarassing as many of you can understand.

I have been single since surgery. Up until earlier this year, I was living in a large city and accustomed to being a member of sexually positive community while experiencing the kink community. I am a sexual creature and have been told that I live up to the stereo-type about redheads. Believe me when I say, I feel awkward about being unable to reach orgasm. Prior to surgery, the frequency of orgasms for me decreased to non-existant. Unfortunately, due to a combination of being fully function while on Hormone Therapy right up until surgery mixed with constant "tucking", I rended myself virtually in capable orgasm. (For those pre-op or about to start on hormones, I should clarify as a head's up factor: the old expression "stop making silly faces or your face will stick that way" is based upon truth. Skin tissue will adapt to long term shifts. The tucking downwards created a downward pull on the tissue down there. This resulted in a pull that literally prevented me from getting it up. Since I was fully functional, the two pulls in direction caused a painful sensation as I started to get aroused. The pain would overwhelm the arousal and break the stimulation.) Between my 7-15 months on hormones (surgery for me was at the 15th month mark of hormone therapy), I had maybe two orgasms. An occurance that was unusal for myself. Although after the event of being with a woman I became extremely depressed before transitioning, I was easily able to become lost in being with another woman because it meshed with my own sexual orientation. I am now at the point where I cannot remember what orgams feel like.

Everything is functional in vagina town, I am naturally a little wetter than most XY women from what my transition doctor tells me (benefits of a Transsexual-specialing GP having previous experience as a Gynecologist). I was basically advised that I am in the category of "heavier" volume in terms of natural wetness. Lube is not always necessary for me depending upon the type of play but never ignored because of that factor. I basically had to stop buying white panties after surgery to compensate for staining. While aroused, I do become wet and wetter. The thing that has changed from what I remember is the orgasmic build up. In the few experiences ("what some might call sex") that I have had so far with women, I have not felt the build up of orgasmic energies or a release or orgasmic energies. I think I might have had an orgasm as a result of sex a week before my one year post-op due to a feeling of being slightly dizzy and an increase in being energetic. Nonetheless, I did not feel anything orgasmic-like.

Currently, attempts at masturbation only serve to disappoint me. I cannot seem to arouse myself. I cannot seem to find any kind of pattern of touching myself that provokes euphoric. When I am being aroused by other women, I experience waves of build up in stimulation which without warning can and almost always disappear at random. I cannot establish can link in between what feels good because somethings only seem to work as a result of a chain of actions. It is upsetting me to no end.

It has almost been a year and a half since surgery and I am still without orgasm. So, its been like two years for me. I need help and advise. Pretty please with sugar on top. Do not worrying about censoring responses, I am used to hearing at length and in high detail about the sex lifes of my friends (most of whom I have seen naked.)


~ Ally

It irks me every time when someone labels their type of posts like this as "*Explicit*" or "*Possible TMI*" or something similar.  Come on folks, we are talking about our bodies, can't we just be frank about these kinds of subjects without the fear of the moderators?

To answer your question, I think this is just something you are just going to have to try and experiment with and try to further explore your sexuality to try and reach orgasm.  While the technique to make us orgasm capable has gotten a whole lot better than a decade ago, it's still not perfect and unfortunately some trans women come out of surgery and are unable to attain orgasm.  This is the risk we take when we go into surgery.  Also compounding the issue is that you were not experiencing orgasms while you were on HRT before surgery.  The best way to be orgasmic after surgery is to keep your nerves exercised by continuing to have orgasms.

I hope that you are able to find your way to experiencing orgasms again.

Quote from: AllyKat on May 01, 2011, 07:07:42 PM


Unfortunately, due to a combination of being fully function while on Hormone Therapy right up until surgery mixed with constant "tucking", I rended myself virtually in capable orgasm. (For those pre-op or about to start on hormones, I should clarify as a head's up factor: the old expression "stop making silly faces or your face will stick that way" is based upon truth. Skin tissue will adapt to long term shifts. The tucking downwards created a downward pull on the tissue down there. This resulted in a pull that literally prevented me from getting it up. Since I was fully functional, the two pulls in direction caused a painful sensation as I started to get aroused.

For me, it was the opposite.  While tucked, not only could I get aroused, I could orgasm as well

Quote
Everything is functional in vagina town, I am naturally a little wetter than most XY women from what my transition doctor tells me (benefits of a Transsexual-specialing GP having previous experience as a Gynecologist). I was basically advised that I am in the category of "heavier" volume in terms of natural wetness. Lube is not always necessary for me depending upon the type of play but never ignored because of that factor. I basically had to stop buying white panties after surgery to compensate for staining. While aroused, I do become wet and wetter. The thing that has changed from what I remember is the orgasmic build up.

Much the same with me.  I wonder if it has something to do with Brassard's technique.  I on the other hand, have no problem with orgasms.  The irony is that I could care less for them.

Quote
Currently, attempts at masturbation only serve to disappoint me. I cannot seem to arouse myself. I cannot seem to find any kind of pattern of touching myself that provokes euphoric. When I am being aroused by other women, I experience waves of build up in stimulation which without warning can and almost always disappear at random. I cannot establish can link in between what feels good because somethings only seem to work as a result of a chain of actions. It is upsetting me to no end.

To be quite honest, it sounds like you are just trying too hard.  Let it go.  Let it come naturally to you.  As for your sex partners--fake it until you can--many natal women do.

Quote
(most of whom I have seen naked.)

Not even sure why this is relevant.   :-\

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Ally.

You didn't mention dilation, or use of a vibrator. Orgasm without a vibrator is difficult for many post-op women, much less GG's.

Do you find that you are aroused while looking at pictures or video's? These may help. Have you tried different forms of stimuli and/or partners?

Another couple of possibilities would be to rule out both medical and psychological issues. Having a full physical and exam may be in order, as well as meeting with a sex specialist. Stresses in your life can inhibit orgasm, as well as a rejection in the end results of your GRS.

I found the best thing was just to play, re-explore and try new tecchniques.
I also found a "bullet" quite a lot of fun.

Its probably not going to be the same in your head pre-op, but with time and practice.

Have fun!

CAUTION: here be graphic materials...or, if we were on the air, this is where the parental advisory gets posted that "Folks, there may be material of a graphic sexual nature."

Quote from: AllyKat on May 01, 2011, 07:07:42 PM
Everything is functional in vagina town, I am naturally a little wetter than most XY women from what my transition doctor tells me (benefits of a Transsexual-specialing GP having previous experience as a Gynecologist). I was basically advised that I am in the category of "heavier" volume in terms of natural wetness. Lube is not always necessary for me depending upon the type of play but never ignored because of that factor. I basically had to stop buying white panties after surgery to compensate for staining. While aroused, I do become wet and wetter.

Brassard grad chiming in here (from one of his early classes)...but yeah, much of what you just described there falls in a 'been there, done that' category. 

QuoteThe thing that has changed from what I remember is the orgasmic build up. In the few experiences ("what some might call sex") that I have had so far with women, I have not felt the build up of orgasmic energies or a release or orgasmic energies. I think I might have had an orgasm as a result of sex a week before my one year post-op due to a feeling of being slightly dizzy and an increase in being energetic. Nonetheless, I did not feel anything orgasmic-like.

Currently, attempts at masturbation only serve to disappoint me. I cannot seem to arouse myself. I cannot seem to find any kind of pattern of touching myself that provokes euphoric. When I am being aroused by other women, I experience waves of build up in stimulation which without warning can and almost always disappear at random. I cannot establish can link in between what feels good because somethings only seem to work as a result of a chain of actions. It is upsetting me to no end.

You may be focusing too much on the actual event of orgasm itself which induces the female version of performance anxiety.  It is also possible that you need more than clitoral stimulation.  That being said, dilation does not induce for me, but digital penetration can induce nirvana-like states.  Likewise, oral will get me there as well, although it takes a little longer...my partners have found that some foreplay involving some non-genital sweet spots (the back of the neck gets me all goose-bumpy) before going oral can reduce the tongue time necessary to induce.     

Everybody is different.  You may find that a few sessions with a sex therapist would actually help get over some mental blocks that could also be present.  You would not be the first person they had seen who had anxiety issues and you may not even be the first post-op they had dealt with. 

Quote from: Ann Onymous on May 01, 2011, 07:53:47 PM
CAUTION: here be graphic materials...or, if we were on the air, this is where the parental advisory gets posted that "Folks, there may be material of a graphic sexual nature."

Is this really necessary?  Really??

Quote from: girl_ashley on May 01, 2011, 07:55:53 PM
Is this really necessary?  Really??

given the discussion about sexuality, it would appear to be necessary to at least give an illusion of maintaining compliance with Rule 17 of the ToS.  So yes, I felt it was necessary.

On the subject of vibrators.  I picked this one up:

http://en.lelo.com/index.php?collectionName=femme&groupName=LIV (http://en.lelo.com/index.php?collectionName=femme&groupName=LIV)

It's pretty cool because it has a number of different settings, two being a pulsing action which I find to be quite a change from a steady RAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!.  It's also rechargeable and quiet.  Runs about a hundred bucks.  Also, you may want to try stimulation around the mons area over straight clitoris stimulation.  Sometimes that can be more effective.   :)

Also, I like the EXPLICIT warnings--gets me to click on the buttons!!!!!  :laugh:

Quote from: girl_ashley on May 01, 2011, 07:32:20 PM
It irks me every time when someone labels their type of posts like this as "*Explicit*" or "*Possible TMI*" or something similar.  Come on folks, we are talking about our bodies, can't we just be frank about these kinds of subjects without the fear of the moderators?

To answer your question, I think this is just something you are just going to have to try and experiment with and try to further explore your sexuality to try and reach orgasm.  While the technique to make us orgasm capable has gotten a whole lot better than a decade ago, it's still not perfect and unfortunately some trans women come out of surgery and are unable to attain orgasm.  This is the risk we take when we go into surgery.  Also compounding the issue is that you were not experiencing orgasms while you were on HRT before surgery.  The best way to be orgasmic after surgery is to keep your nerves exercised by continuing to have orgasms.

I hope that you are able to find your way to experiencing orgasms again.

Sorry, I am new to this forum. On top of that, I witnessed it used being used in other topics. I did so not in fear of other moderators but in concern of the potential youth using this form. Past that, I cannot change the past so hindsight is not advise.

Quote from: Kristyn on May 01, 2011, 07:37:03 PM
To be quite honest, it sounds like you are just trying too hard.  Let it go.  Let it come naturally to you.  As for your sex partners--fake it until you can--many natal women do.

I may fall prey to the whole trying too hard. In terms of that last point, I have never had been with a woman whose been able to fake it in front of with me and I am not comfortable with doing it to another person. I honestly felt is was about the rudest thing to be done to.

Quote from: juliekins on May 01, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
You didn't mention dilation, or use of a vibrator. Orgasm without a vibrator is difficult for many post-op women, much less GG's.

Other than healing up the dilator later at a rather fast rate, I do my single dilation a week. I have never felt any kind of stimuli during dilations.

I own a lovely Lelo Gigi. The roommate that I had got me hooked on the concept of it. So convienent not having to deal with batteries. The vibrator poses more questions than answers. I have moments of things "seeming" to work for me than it fades away. Nonetheless, it is the toy that has brought me the most pleasure so far. It is so my favorite as a result.

Quote from: juliekins on May 01, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
Do you find that you are aroused while looking at pictures or video's? These may help.

Quote from: juliekins on May 01, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
Have you tried different forms of stimuli and/or partners?

I am not sure how to address this question. It is rather vague.

Quote from: juliekins on May 01, 2011, 07:39:39 PM
Another couple of possibilities would be to rule out both medical and psychological issues. Having a full physical and exam may be in order, as well as meeting with a sex specialist. Stresses in your life can inhibit orgasm, as well as a rejection in the end results of your GRS.

I am starting to consider this. I am currently living within a smaller community for the next couple of months and am not sure that is much of an option where I currently reside.

I hav a different surgeon but I would just like to say my experience really is its soo much in the mind

Its like anticipation and opening up inside that allows you to get where you want to the only way I can explain really so yes remapping: )

Ohh and try a rabbit, one of those will have you begging for mercy :-*

opps
Its a vibrator  ;)

Many women end up divorcing their husbands over prefence. I joke ofc but they are verry effective in helping you along

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 01, 2011, 09:16:11 PM


Lol, Kristyn. Will have to remember to mark all my threads EXPLICIT.

:)  Don't have to, I always read yours.

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 01, 2011, 09:16:11 PM
What got me the hottest once was imagining what my lover was going to do to me next, while giving me oral... gosh I want a replay! too bad I broke it off with him.

I am leaning toward a theory that it may be a brain mapping issue. Since I havent had an orgasm yet, my brain hasn't made the association with the feelings leading up to it.

My imagination doesn't seem to be too supportive but I have not had a regular partner so there has been chances to think of what will happen next for a long while.

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 01, 2011, 09:16:11 PM
I'd like to try a vibrator.

Lelo makes amazing vibrators. How do you not own sex toys? I do not understand this concept.

Quote from: Vanna on May 01, 2011, 09:45:38 PM
I hav a different surgeon but I would just like to say my experience really is its soo much in the mind

Its like anticipation and opening up inside that allows you to get where you want to the only way I can explain really so yes remapping: )

Quote from: Vanna on May 01, 2011, 09:45:38 PM
Ohh and try a rabbit, one of those will have you begging for mercy :-*

I had a small collection of toys so variety is not exactly the issue for me.

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 01, 2011, 10:39:06 PM
btw, I just ordered the Lelo Liv, yaay for me!! I cant wait, I wish it was here tomorrow.

What? No Gigi??

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 01, 2011, 10:39:06 PM
Your such a sweetie... wait, are you sayin I'm explicit? lol

btw, I just ordered the Lelo Liv, yaay for me!! I cant wait, I wish it was here tomorrow.

No, not explicit, just interesting with a positive attitude.  :)

I think think you'll enjoy the Lelo     ;)

You need to take the time to discover yourself again.
It took some years to discover myself again, sometimes it's the mood you're in or the position you take.

In my expirience, when you do not think it's important anymore to have an orgasm, you're more relaxed and less focussed on it, than it will happen.
If you are masturbating of having sex just with the goal of having an orgasm, it won't work and it's very dissapointing.
When you do it just to have a good time, it can happen.

Remember, your biggest genitals are between your ears, not between your legs.

Relax sister, relax and it will come on a nice day.

Hugs
Annette

I am sorry to hear of your difficulties. I am struggling to imagine what that would be like as in my experience 90% of orgasm is in the mind anyway so perhaps I don't entirely understand this, however I would comment that female orgasm does feel completely different from the male one.

I can hardly recall what the male one was like after 30 years, and having only ever had a handful, but I seem to recall that it was all fixated in one place with a lot of heavy "pumping" going on... The female one however is more of an all body/ all mind thing... and indeed can even sometimes be brought on for me by stroking other bits of my body in a sexual context.

There is no pumping. There is some spasming of the muscles deep in the vagina and a huge wash of euphoria and "heat" that passes over my entire body. Sometimes bits of my body - arms legs etc will randomly twitch - almost always my back will involuntarily arch, but the focus for the sensation which I seem to recall from male days is not there at all. Sometimes I just get a nice warm feeling and an "oh" - every time is different.

I agree with others that you may be experiencing a block based on your high focus on this. The other thing I do observe is that whereas males seem to be able to "get it up" largely based stimulation for me I have to be in the right mood - which can take maybe up to an hour of skillful foreplay by my partner, and indeed my imagination HAS to be filled with ultra sexy thoughts otherwise I could literally go on for hours with no result.

To me it sounds like you are focusing on the physical and expecting it all to just work based on physical alone. Female sexuality simply doesn't work like that - it is much more multidimensional - or at least it is for me. First you need the right setting and emotional attachment - then extended foreplay to warm up, then you need the sexy thoughts - finally you need the action and then when all these come together BING - it happens.

As a woman things do happen slower. Even masturbation takes a lot of time - I find I often have to construct and imagine in detail the build up. I have to imagine his/her taking me to dinner or film - where we went - what he/she said, the stirrings of my emotions. Then I have to imagine the feelings of excitement and anticipation as my date made their move on me... Next I have to use my own hands to simulate the foreplay and it cant be rushed. Finally I have to fill my head with sexy thoughts and fantasies as I zero in on my genitals and stimulate them gently or hard fast or slow as the mood dictates. Only then does release come - its simply not something you can rush. On average I would say it takes an hour or two... but it is always good when it happens.

I sincerely hope that in that you might be able to find something in my description which helps and I do sympathise.

In the 10 months+ since my surgery I have had exactly 3 self-inflicted orgasms, one vaginal or g-spot and 2 clitoral.  The vaginal was an accident, the clitoral were on purpose but damn, it took a while. I do know that every one of the sexual triggers that I used to find stimulating have exactly zero effect now.  I haven't yet found exactly what my new triggers are, but they probably have something to do with big strong guys having their way with me lol.  Still, there's a lot to be said for finding the right triggers.

Also I've just recently started having sex with my boyfriend and though I've gotten close, I'm not sure if straight vaginal sex will ever be enough for me to produce the big 'O'.  Fortunately however he sees this as a challenge. ;)

I thought the standard info was that post-op you should not expect to be self lubricating much, if at all (unless colon tissue was used)

How is it he's achieving a self-lubricating vagina (and is there some relationship between that and potentially being less orgasmic than patients of other surgeons or is that reading too much into it?) Do McGinn/Bowers/Thailand/etc girls have good lubrication too and i've simply been misinformed?

Tammy, some of that is explained in a quote I posted a while ago here: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77703.msg699661.html#msg699661 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,77703.msg699661.html#msg699661)

WARNING: Some viewers may find the following material sexually explicit: >:-)

Lubrication isn't required at all for a clitoral orgasm. I'm a McGinn girl and so far have at least enough natural wetness to use my #1 dilator at full depth without any additional lubrication. I still need a little help with the larger sizes though. I can only hope it continues to improve as time goes by lol

Yes, the sure way to NOT have an orgasm is to try to have one!

Relax, learn to appreciate the sensations, get into the feelings moment by moment, and let the sensations take you where ever they may. You LET an orgasm happen, not force it.

(As a matter of fact, once you have 'been there' a few times, try to suppress it for awhile and the results will rock your world LOL!)

You really need to be "in the right head-space" to. The wrong mood will ensure nothing happens but the right mood (relaxed and happy with yourself) primes the pump as it were.

Quote from: Tammy Hope on May 02, 2011, 04:36:38 AM
Do McGinn/Bowers/Thailand/etc girls have good lubrication too and i've simply been misinformed?

I am a Biber girl, class of 1974, and lubricated quite freely right from the beginning - actually enough to be embarrassing under some circumstances. That diminished somewhat over the following 37 years but even now, if I am in good health, well hydrated, and sufficiently in the mood, I can sometimes get by without help, at least initially. If things go on too long my "natural supply" does seem to be insufficient and needs to be supplemented.

Orgasms to me are nice to have but not really necessary for me to enjoy sex. The couple of times I've managed to achieve it on purpose took a lot of effort and left me drained and wondering why exactly was it worth all the fuss. I guess through transition my priorities changed along with my sexual triggers. It's just not my chief focus for having sex.

Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting a We-Vibe Touch Ruby myself :)

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 02, 2011, 06:28:30 AMI do want to add orgasm to that list of activities for my partner and I to do. I dont want them thinking they are unable to please me.

This is a very important point.
I've never been able to have an orgasm with a partner. My last bf told me, after we broke up, that this had always been a disappointment to him. He wanted me to enjoy sex as much as he does and felt frustrated that he could never give me an orgasm. He suggested that I 'fake it' with future partners, but that is something I could never do. I wouldn't even know how to.

One other device not mentioned here (yet) is a good old fashioned water-pik massaging type shower head that has the hose instead of just being mounted to the wall...with the different settings, one can often find the more sensitive areas.  Of course it may also lengthen the time one spends in the shower :D

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 02, 2011, 06:45:05 AM
I think it is a big huge concern, thanks for pointing that out. I know as an active participant in my lovemaking that I am working on exciting my partner more and more until they cant stand it anymore.

I want my partner to get the same satisfaction in driving me over the edge to release. I think it can cause me and people with the same problem to lose partners. I dont want my lover blaming themselves or thinking bad thoughts.

I agree its a major concern and probably something I should also work on for his sake. I do get to the panting, moaning, almost there stage, but I'm sure he'd like to know he could do it for me all the way the same as I do for him. The closest I've achieved was by lying on our sides face to face, bodies touching while he rubbed the tip of his .... on my little button.... (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cosgan.de%2Fimages%2Fmidi%2Fkonfus%2Fe050.gif&hash=74d39230cd8290e8fcf645bcb8ad38b7cc9055e0)  We are still in the getting to know each other's bodies stage but I do plan to keep trying however; I hope something is bound to work sooner or later.

I think my main problem with being non-orgasmic is lack of stimulus. I just have no desire to attempt it on my own. I did it once out of curiosity and got bored pretty quickly.
I can imagine it being completely different with a partner.

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 02, 2011, 06:10:09 AMShe uses her hand and is able to orgasm quickly. But then, she was born correct.

Well I wasn't "born correct" but a hand works great for me to (either mine or someone else's)! Fingers and thumb in the right places and I'm a goner LOL!

I can't stand vibrators - TOO intense.

I dont have a clitorus. Sad fact, but I am still orgasmic.
I found using a rabbit or bullet at the entrance to my vagina (not for long) and getting my head into it, I can reach that zone I want.
The first time I had heavy petting worked too.

I was really depressed about the fact I didn't and dont have a C, but relaxing, having fun with a fantacy or two helped a lot. Being anxious about it can kioll it dead. Its not a race, explore your new body and enjoy!

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 02, 2011, 12:54:22 PM
Maybe you could give Ally, Siren, Chloe, myself and the rest of us frustrated gals some lessons :icon_yes:. I think your class would be lying room only??? hee hee.

Oh as if that wouldn't bring out my hidden Lesbian streak! ROFLMAO!!!!

(It wouldn't be the first time I introduced others to the wonders of orgasm, only the others were all GGs - no offence intended!)

(Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting a We-Vibe Touch Ruby myself )


  :D :D :D I had my first O on day 37 with this  :P,  , My second was about a week after with some help from well some male body rubbing  ;D ;D ;D ,( no intercourse  )  and of course alot of mental stimulation , and my 3rd was with heavy petting ,and  lots of foreplay..... I have found that mental stimulation is VERY VERY important although I must say I knew this pre surgery due to the fact that I had an orchiechtomy about 30 yrs ago and I was able to reach that point without touching myself ......As for the Lelo G-spot  toy I have heard nothing but good things about it and cant wait to have my own I will be purchasing one on my next visit to McGinn in 2 short weeks at this very nice little place called SWEET ESCAPE in New Hope , ahhh maybe Ill just order it on line now lol lol lol

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 03, 2011, 06:05:04 AM
That is hard to understand what is meant (with the emphasis on VERY VERY). Mental gymnastics sounds exhausting.

A fantasy I can comprehend but all the talk about mental and head work makes it sound unnatural. I dont want to play head games with myself for hours to reach something I dont know exactly what. It doesnt sound natural to me, sorry.

I'm not saying this is what you ladies re experiencing, it is just what it sounds like when I read all of these responses about mental.

I am left frustrated when I try that, as happens to Ally as well, according to her OP.

Thanks very much for your input and for trying to help.

hugs,

-Valerie

Hi Valerie

It is possible you may be taking our replies a bit too literally - it's difficult because we are trying to express something in words that is basically a rather individual and private thing, so forgive us if it isn't coming over right.

I assure you it isn't "unnatural" at all, nor indeed is it hard work or difficult. Nor does it really involve "head games". Obviously I cant talk for the others but the point I personally was trying to make is that, from what I can recall, as a male all one had to do was see something mildly erotic then vigorously pull a bit of skin up and down for a few second and bang that was it.

As a woman it is a more "integrated" experience. Things happen more within a "context". Your mood at the time and the the thoughts that you are having become somewhat more important factors. It is not just a "physical" thing any more, it is emotional too. I'm trying to explain this as clearly as I can, but it is so difficult to put in words, The important thing to understand is that when you find the right stimulation for you, it will happen and it will happen reliably too.

I was lucky. Possibly because I was so young and inexperienced I just found that it all clicked into place and from day one I never had any problems. I can bring myself to orgasm any time I want, and like Northern Jane I have never yet had a sexual encounter which failed. I think part of the problem is that if you have been used to something working in a particular way for a long time and then it changes, maybe it becomes more difficult to unlearn previous techniques.

So please don't get discouraged or indeed too hung up on what we are saying. We are just trying to give you some pointers to help you understand the subtle differences that may be contributing to your difficulties.

In the beginning I was shocked by how intense it was and by how long it kept going. I identify with a lot of what Jenny says, although now it is more difficult to describe the difference from before. I have trouble now remembering what it was like even though I know that it used to be another way. Yes, it comes more from inside, builds like a wave and keeps going and going. It can become too intense--I don't like vibrators, etc--a hand is so much more amazingly amazing. And there is so much more variation. Something new always. So much.

I don't think anyone mentioned the effect that hormones might have. I know that when my estrogen and/or progesterone is higher I am much ruttier. Also, male pheremones drive me absolutely crazy. Females, not the same at all.

It's like you need to discover a different path to happiness in your brain. But not by playing fantasy games whatever. In the beginning I saw colors. And I never saw colors ever before...

Quote from: danimunj on May 05, 2011, 09:36:38 PMIt's like you need to discover a different path to happiness in your brain. But not by playing fantasy games whatever. In the beginning I saw colors. And I never saw colors ever before...

I think that's what I meant by different triggers. Sexual response changes first with HRT, or at least mine did quite dramatically. Yeah, the waves and stuff (and sometimes I giggle a lot lol).  But it still took a while to process that into how to deal with it physically, and then again after surgery.  It's like discovering sexuality all over again, and in a sense it truly is.

I'm a brand new woman, only a few months post op.  My GT began working with me on "female sexual triggers" and was encouraging me to explore my new body for feelings in the months leading up to surgery.  She's apparently also quite experienced at sexual counseling and has raised issues I'd never thought about.

     Dr. McGinn has also made this a big deal and suggested I read "The Science of Orgasm".  She wrote the section on transgender orgasm.

     I think maybe too many of us see surgery as the end of the transition road and we're all done from there.  I don't believe that for a second and this discussion shows me I have a lot to learn.

      I've spent my life pretty much asexual, out of disgust with my body.  Sex as a guy just never appealed to me.  I'm going to work with my GT on learning how to have sex as a woman and hopefully learn how to enjoy my new body better. 

     It's also been suggested to me that I explore reading about sexual practices of lesbians, as a means of educating myself about female physiology and sex as a female.

      I see no reason to have to figure this all out myself, when I have so many resources to learn from, not the least of which is this forum.   :)  I intend to immerse myself in learning from experts how all this works.  It's certainly easier than than the frustration of trying to figure it out on my own.

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 06, 2011, 08:56:52 AM
My roommate, a cis-girl, tells me she doesnt use fantasy to orgasm. For her it is just hand stimulation with her clitoris. I dont know if we can apply the same to us though.

She said it took her a long time to learn. At first she couldnt at all, then with practice she could eventually get there. Now she can in moments with the right spot.

Well, afterall, one has to remember that the largest sex organ in the body is the brain.

Quote from: Re: Joyce on May 06, 2011, 06:51:53 AMDr. McGinn has also made this a big deal and suggested I read "The Science of Orgasm".  She wrote the section on transgender orgasm.

Yay another McGinn girl! I'm 10 months and counting. Her discharge instructions also have a lot to say about orgasms. I'd love to read that book, too.

This is from Dr. McGinn's instructions, I don't think she would mind me sharing this here (edited):

Quote from: Dr. Christine McGinn (edited for length and content)16. Sensation. Erotic sensation of  the vaginal area is a complex subject and the more informed you are, the more you will be able to enjoy sexual pleasure following surgery. Hormone levels, emotional state, and partner acceptance play an important role in your ability to have an orgasm. Often it takes some experimentation and effort to learn how your new vagina works. I recommend the book "The Science of Orgasm" by Beverly Whipple to learn more about how this process works. I helped to edit the chapter on transsexual orgasm. It is important to note: if you were not able to orgasm prior to surgery, nothing we do in surgery increases your ability or likelihood of reaching orgasm after surgery. There are two nerve pathways for orgasm in both men and women.

The first pathway is penile/clitoral. After your surgery you should be able to experience clitoral pleasure because the dorsal nerves of your penis have been preserved as a clitoris. .. Even if you experience some loss of clitoral bulk due to poor blood supply or scabbing, those nerve roots are still present. The area that corresponds to these roots is just below the mons pubis. By applying pressure to this area, you can stimulate the orgasm reflex that travels through your spinal chord to your brain. This may take several weeks to happen as the nerves heal and learn their new position. Vitamin B6 helps with this process. During the healing phase you will experience odd feelings that have been described as "shocks, zappers, tingles, or itching". These can take you by surprise and happen at inopportune times. This is normal nerve healing and should dissipate after several months.

The second pathway is g-spot/prostate. This is a separate nerve pathway that was discovered while doing research on patients with spinal chord injury. This pathway can also produce orgasm, but through the vagus nerve, which runs outside the spinal chord. Your prostate is still intact with all of its nerves. It is located about 1 inch past past the pubic bone when you insert your finger into the vagina. It may feel like a soft almond and when pressed may cause some clear fluid to come out of the urethra. This maneuver can help with lubrication during sex. It can also cause orgasm. Be sure to explain all this to your partner so he/she knows how to pleasure you. If you find this area to be hard for you or your partner to find, the same "lip fillers" like collagen or Juvederm can be injected to aid in locating this area as an off-label use. Some have reported increased pleasure from this G-spot enhancement. This should only be performed by a professional with complete knowledge of transgender surgery. We do offer this service at Papillon Center.

Before I finish with this topic, I will touch on the importance of two more issues: Hormones and Psyche. Hormones can greatly affect your libido and ability to experience sexual pleasure. They can also affect the amount of lubrication you produce. Genetic females do have some testosterone that comes from the breakdown of progesterone (this is why many females experience increased libido right before their period). After the testicles are removed MTF transsexuals have little to no testosterone and I recommend a small amount of testosterone or progesterone following surgery.

Your state of mind plays a large role in your sexual satisfaction. If you suffer from anxiety, low self esteem, fear of what your partner is thinking, or post operative depression then your sexual satisfaction may suffer. The excitement of surgery is quickly replaced by the reality of dilation and recovery, which can often cause depression as your body adapts  to the changing hormone levels, and use of pain medication. If you are finding that your sexual satisfaction has declined, do not hesitate to find a therapist that specializes in sex therapy. Sex therapists are specifically trained to deal with these types of issues. If you are having trouble finding a trans-experienced sex therapist, contact AASECT on the world wide web.

I was discussing this discussion (?) with my therapist this morning.  She sighed and said that we all need to realize that there are a tremendous number of cis females who have difficulty achieving orgasm.  For us to think and expect that we can just march right in, lay down and have it happen may be a little presumptuous for us.

      So, as a result of all this, I told her I was almost ready for some sex toys  :blush:

     I guess I'll be taking lessons...   :)

g-spot/prostate...front of the vaginal canal or back?

I'm aware it's in the front for a natal female, I'd assumed it would be behind the canal for us but I'm wrong?

Quote from: Tammy Hope on May 08, 2011, 12:10:20 AM
g-spot/prostate...front of the vaginal canal or back?

I'm aware it's in the front for a natal female, I'd assumed it would be behind the canal for us but I'm wrong?

Dr. McGinn explained where it is on post-operative women in the 3rd paragraph of the quote above.

Quote from: Tammy Hope on May 08, 2011, 12:10:20 AM
g-spot/prostate...front of the vaginal canal or back?

I'm aware it's in the front for a natal female, I'd assumed it would be behind the canal for us but I'm wrong?

Front Tammy

Quote from: Valeriedances on May 08, 2011, 06:48:42 AM
I dont think anybody expects that. Her comment is very insensitive...

I wonder if she has seen any SRS videos? We had our bodies massively changed surgically. Its entirely understandable that some of us were left unorgasmic or in a position where it is extremely difficult to achieve, due to lack of nerves or other physical reasons.

I have not given up hope but am beginning to accept that it will never happen for me. It may put me in the same group with the other cis-ladies unable to achieve orgasms but for entirely different reasons.

It would be helpful to have some physical therapy added to our surgical protocol.

Please do not consider her to be insensitive based on a 3rd person report (mine).

     She is extremely knowledgeable about the surgery, anatomy, transgender issues and the sex act itself.  She has a large trans clientele and also does a substantial amount of sexual counseling, both to trans and non-trans clients.

      I'm just beginning my education on this topic and her comment was intended to show that failure to achieve orgasm is not only common in trans women, it's also common among cis women, as well.  That is all that comment was intended to convey, nothing more.

      If any part of my posts have caused you undue discomfort, I am extremely sorry, as that is not what I intended to do.

      Based on the suggestions of the medical professionals who have been assisting me in my transition journey, I'll be participating in private, individual (as opposed to group) sex therapy to see if it's possible for me to be orgasmic.  I've learned that there is a lot of professional assistance available.

     This may be an option for others to pursue, if so inclined.

Quote from: FairyGirl on May 08, 2011, 12:29:40 AM
Dr. McGinn explained where it is on post-operative women in the 3rd paragraph of the quote above.

I read that but it wasn't perfectly clear to me - or rather, what it SEEMED to say being in opposition to what I'd assumed, i was asking for it to be said directly so i didn't make another false assumption.

I truly think you can overthink this whole situation

you are correct our bodies are massively changed and it takes time for the brain to remap just like the nerves

you will find the right set of situations Valerie that open the right path the biggest sex organ will always be the brain i know this is true because i get where i want just fantasising about someone special

I knew losing orgasmic capability was one of the risks going in, but had to make the conscious decision that the risk was worth it and it wasn't a difficult choice.  As I said previously, it's a "nice to have", but not my main focus for having sex and certainly not for having surgery.

It's been weeks and weeks since I was able to do it manually; I've tried again since and met with dismal failure.  I just can't seem to work up the enthusiasm or something. ???  I get much closer with my boyfriend doing the stimulation in various ways including orally, but even then to be honest my optimism is tempered.  Thankfully he is willing to keep trying and so will I, but for now I will also resign myself to simply enjoying being with him and the ways he makes me feel otherwise.  There's still no feeling in the world like having him get aroused just by kissing me, and when I'm lying there naked in his bed and he wraps me up in his arms and enters inside me, that will just have to be heaven enough for me for the time being.


(but I still fully intend to try the vibrator, too lol)

If by sex therapist you mean a hot boyfriend who will spend and take his time

then yes i verry much agree :)

I am curious about something, after reading this topic, so I have a question. They say (and I firmly agree) that sexual arousal and orgasms for bio women are more of a mental activity, one that requires thought and engagement in the activity. Men, being the opposite, need visuals and physical stimulation, purely, to respond. What I was wondering is, do hormones have an effect on this? Like, will taking E turn that urge from a physical to a mental endeavor? Because if someone grew up male and will male sexual responses, I can imagine that reaching an orgasm from mental stimulation and fantasy after the change would be really hard!

Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question, but I haven't started T yet, so I dunno what happens to the mental and physical aspects of a person during HRT

Yes, JA.

Cross-hormone therapy can allow those changes to happen. But it also takes a predisposition or willingness or desire or desparate need (take your pick) on the part of the transitioner to harmonize with the changes that the hormones induce. I think this can be a very difficult part of the whole process. Giving up what you've lived and are familiar with. Finding what comes most naturally. Striking the happiest and healthiest balance. It's a very subtle thing. Easy to miss.

Good luck.

Quote from: danimunj on May 09, 2011, 09:23:31 AM
Yes, JA.

Cross-hormone therapy can allow those changes to happen. But it also takes a predisposition or willingness or desire or desparate need (take your pick) on the part of the transitioner to harmonize with the changes that the hormones induce. I think this can be a very difficult part of the whole process. Giving up what you've lived and are familiar with. Finding what comes most naturally. Striking the happiest and healthiest balance. It's a very subtle thing. Easy to miss.

Very well said.  Maybe in my case it was all of the above, but my sexual response did change dramatically, as I posted before.  To say it's like comparing apples and oranges is an understatement.  Not only the sexual triggers, but the physical response to those triggers changed as well.  This in itself for me has presented the greatest challenge when it comes to the subject of this discussion, because it's been uncharted territory.

We are in the somewhat unique position of having the experience from both sides of sexual response.  But as you said, what we've lived with and were familiar with is gone, and now we must find what comes naturally in our new bodies.  I remember the old feelings, but they are only like ghosts now without any substance, and have absolutely no effect anymore.

Try testosterone!

Quote from: James-Allen on May 08, 2011, 08:52:41 PM
I am curious about something, after reading this topic, so I have a question. They say (and I firmly agree) that sexual arousal and orgasms for bio women are more of a mental activity, one that requires thought and engagement in the activity. Men, being the opposite, need visuals and physical stimulation, purely, to respond. What I was wondering is, do hormones have an effect on this? Like, will taking E turn that urge from a physical to a mental endeavor? Because if someone grew up male and will male sexual responses, I can imagine that reaching an orgasm from mental stimulation and fantasy after the change would be really hard!

Sorry if that sounds like a dumb question, but I haven't started T yet, so I dunno what happens to the mental and physical aspects of a person during HRT

Hi, it is a tricky question to answer ---- because if you are MtF you ALWAYS seemed to have a more female response to start with. We are not the best example for a robust straight cis-male sexual response. In fact rather far from it. We most often far less "goal oriented" and also more in need of the more typical female "warm up needs". At least this being my experience for so many years. We also can much more easily go without sex then the more average male.

But, one thing is true: The more T the more horniness and the more "goal orientation" as a typical male will have 100 times more T in his system then the average female at a younger age, in their 20s.

Axelle

That brings up another issue we face, too low a total testosterone level, i am almost 3 months post op and my endo did a total T level per Dr. Mcginn's request, it came back < 10ng/dl normal female range is 20 to 70, she said too low a level can cause lack of energy and low libido, i have low energy not sure about the libido part yet, i am waiting to hear back from her and i may be prescribed some testosterone to bring my T level in a more normal female range.

Paula

Aaah, Val, now I get it :-)

* I've had my Lelo for a while now and I have to say I love it. *

LULA in my private dictionary, heehee.

Axelle

"Lelo" is not a euphemism, it's a company (http://en.lelo.com/) that makes vibrators.

Oh ->-bleeped-<-, Val! OF COURSE

should have known, the very one on my bed site table!
Even the colour matches. What a lovely "companion device" the hole ~ swing ding and rechargeable battery that LASTS, heya!

So, that could beat any "organic" competition, no?

Axelle