Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Did any of you notice a marked change in depression/happiness after you started HRT?  I usually have seasonal depression (pretty bad) but this year it's simply not going away.  The only real change from this year to last is that I'm now on HRT and full time.  I've had moments where I feel this is the time of my life, and too many, like tonight, where everything sets me off, and the pain burns more brightly than I've ever felt before.

Maybe it's also because I have the flu, but this weekend truly sucked and I never got out of my apartment due to illness.  So all this time alone, friends busy and not answering calls, no responses to texts, and now my thoughts are in doom and gloom mode.

"I didn't get into grad school and everyone I know who applied did."  Oh, so I'm a total failure.
"I haven't had a date in three years."  Now I'm ugly and unapproachable too.
"Why doesn't anyone pick up the phone?"  Because I'm being clingy and needy and I should stop.
"I'm depressed."  Nobody wants to hear it, it's only me, and who cares anyway?
"Really?  Your happiness doesn't matter?"  Got that right.

Now my job ends this week, I don't have another one lined up, and I find myself too depressed to even move.  I'm not normally this way.  I'm usually the one who brings sunshine to everyone else and cries alone where nobody can see.  I think it's to a point where everyone expects me to be sunshine, and I can't do it.  If I can't bring joy to others, what's the point in reaching out?

This is just so typical of my thoughts lately, and they should be gone by this time of year.  I'm trying hard to be confident, but it's difficult when I feel like I'm the ugly duckling who'll never pass in a million years.

Did anyone else have this type of depression when starting E?  Did it go away?

It didn't go away at all... But my situation and my life seemed as if it couldn't get any worse. When I awoke spiritually my depression lifted! I am now able to cut through the illusion of suffering, and transcend my doom and gloom outlook, as you call it, also known as the Pain Body, which is a Manifestation of the Ego.

Meditation was what ultimately ended up curing my Depression... and when it tries to come back and plague my thoughts, I know that it is not the truth.

I've had clinical depression for years and it greatly lessened the first six months I was on a very low dose of estrogen and spiro.  I've always tended to feel seasonal effects as well.  In my case, taking E didn't make any difference at all.  I really hope it's just the flu dragging you down and has nothing to do with your HRT.

I went through a period of depression a couple of years back when my brother died - it knocked me sideways as I have always been a really upbeat person! I worked my way through it with mediation - I now continue to meditate on a daily basis & it's amazing how it has enhanced my life!

My depression / anxiety worsened on Spiro alone, and then improved within 24 hours of taking E. I still have the thoughts, but they don't bother me, and I'm able to go and think about something else after a few moments.

Do not recall any depressive episodes, although admittedly, that was a LONG time ago.  What I DO recall was becoming weepy at certain scenes in movies that never created an issue before, so there was definitely some measure of a change to the emotional balance...

Mind if I intrude? For a couple of decades, I felt that female hormones were causing or at least contributing greatly to my depression. I did not consciously think of it as a trans thing--I wasn't thinking, "If only I could get the right stuff in my brain." (Yes, I was terrifically compartmentalized and did not want to think about how my being trans was contributing.)

I always had a big mood swing around the time of the Red Death. Down, down, down. And I was depressed already.

I now think that the issue is more complicated, but I do think that the female hormones messed me up. Could be because my brain was over-testosteronized when I was developing (so it was running on the wrong juice, or something), or could be because female hormones are tricky. Maybe both.

I had a GYN who scoffed at my theory that I had a hormonal imbalance, so I never brought it up to any doctor again. Then I started noticing studies that showed links between depression and female hormones. I think that usually it was an issue with the proportion of E to P or something. Maybe yours needs tweaking?

Arch nailed it... and that is the reason why I think doctors like Richard Curtis in the UK who won't prescribe Progesterone are complete idiots! I take a small dose of Progesterone because without it I get into a depressive spiral and my libido collapses. It is a tiny dose - but if makes a huge difference to my equilibrium and well being.

So I agree - get the balance tweaked. (Oh and make sure you get a proper micronised progesterone and not that medoxy synthetic rubbish!)

I upped my E dosage recently and I've felt a hell of a lot better, i'm also on progesterone as well.

Thank you, each and every one, for responding with the little tips and hints!  I found out today that one of the side effects of depo is depression, and that could be (in part) what I'm experiencing.  When I was on spiro and E, I didn't feel this way (my T levels stayed at 650 though, so no suppression).  In fact, on spiro, I cranked out my honors thesis, worked 30 hours a week, took another class, and went through the entire grad school application process.

Now my productivity is shot.  T levels are nicely suppressed, but switching to depo caused what I know to have been a bit of depression for the first three months of the year.  Then, in March, my doc doubled my E on top of the regular depo shot.  Things have been sliding downhill ever since, to the point that I even told a friend last night that I was a monster who crushed everything she loves.

Today's been a bit brighter since I was able to get out of the house (therapist appointment and work) but now that I'm home, that old feeling is coming back.  I have a long history of suicidal depression going back to my first attempt at the age of 11, and while I can say this isn't as bad as my darkest moments, those darker moments are full of nasty thoughts instead of being total voids like they once were.  I try so hard to tell myself good thoughts, but the stupid crap my abusive stepmom fed to me rises to the surface.  But I try... I really do try to break that pattern and put better thoughts in their place.  My friend also told me last night that it sounded like the boy self was pushing through, not the shining girl that she's come to know the past few months.

I consider myself very spiritual, but not religious.  No matter how much I've read about mindfulness, all of that teaching goes out the window when I'm at my worst (at the time I need it the most).  The dark thoughts are so stubborn that they push away good thoughts.  The more positive the thought, the harder it pushes.  Maybe it's just practice, I don't know.  But I'm just tired of spending the last two or three hours of every day in tears, unable to move a muscle because my whole body feels like it's carrying a jetliner.

As far as reaching out goes, I'm just not good at it.  My dad and stepmom abused me physically, mentally, and emotionally, but my mom and stepdad had a strict "no whining" rule.  You didn't talk unless it was cheery and they didn't want to hear anything else.  Though they support me in my transition, they still tune out as soon as you say something is wrong (and sometimes begin to yell that they don't want to hear about my problems).  They'll share in joy, but nothing else.  So I very much have a fear of reaching out to anyone at all.  If my parents won't even listen, then who will?  I don't want my friends to disappear because I'm not smiling.

Ugh... I'm just going to shut up now.

Sorry in advance for the ADDishness of this post but I forgot to take my medicine this afternoon, so...

I'm not saying that your friends shouldn't listen to you when you're sad or upset, because friends should do that, but I want to say I had an epiphany a while ago that the role of a therapist was to listen to you bitch so the people you love didn't have to.  Before that I never even understood the point of going to one, maybe I still don't, but the idea of paying somebody $100 so I can just whine at them for an hour has been sounding kind of awesome lately.  Maybe that is an option?  Do that more?  Could be expensive after a while.

I am like you in that I don't like dragging my friends down with me when I feel bad, but talking about your issues is sometimes the best cure for them.  Especially on estrogen, the need to connect with other people is just overpowering, at least for me.  Neglecting that is a bad thing, I'm thinking.

Also, I think it's telling that going out of the house made you feel better.  Maybe you should try to do that more?  Staying inside all by yourself is a recipe for depression.

Anyway I am trying to say, make connections with people and get your upsetness off your chest.  Those two things.  If you don't have a therapist or anybody else to turn to, lmk and I'll give you my info :).

Estrogen alone can cause depression, that's why the need for androgen or progesterone to balance the estrogen dominance effect, also may try Vitamin E 400 IU supplement, it has progesterone effect,  it may mitigate some of the estrogen effect (in a positive way).

Jen, I do have a therapist, but sadly lack the funds to go more than once every month or so (thankfully she's totally cool with the scheduling being on my terms as far as transition goes, not insisting on any set timeline).  As soon as I find a job, that's going to increase because I feel I do need it more often.  I felt pretty strongly last week that I was foisting too much of this negativity onto my friends, it was getting out of control, and so I made the appointment that I had this morning.  Probably needed two hours to get it all out because the one barely sufficed.  :laugh:

What you say about estrogen and connections is so true, and I never realized it until my T levels were under control and E finally got a chance to work.  My mom told me I was a hermit for the last 10 years before coming out and it was an incredibly accurate description... I probably hung out with friends less than 20 times in 10 years.  I'd sometimes go four or five months without even talking to anyone on the phone and never realized it.  I had to get pretty damn lonely to pick up the phone and make a call.  Often, I ignored calls, texts, and emails because I so completely shut out the entire world.

But since starting HRT, there isn't a day goes by that I don't want to talk to each and every one of my friends.  I went from sending about 20 texts a year to about 2500 in one month.  My parents helped me save a bit of money by putting me on their cell phone plan (along with the rest of my siblings) and I beat my stepdad's long-standing record for minutes used.  Thankfully, we were still nowhere near the monthly maximum!

Also, you're absolutely right about getting out of the house.  I never want to be indoors anymore.  For the first time in a decade, I've actually seen spring, smelled flowers (like literally, stopping in my tracks to smell them), got back into photography, and checked off a couple of bucket list items.  Maybe some of my being upset this past weekend was being trapped indoors with the flu.  But despite all of my wonderful experiences lately, the moments that I'm alone, in my apartment, aren't good times.  I think I need to learn how to cool down the social butterfly that's awoken inside of me.  My therapist asked me today if I considered myself an extrovert, to which I realized that I might be all of a sudden.  I always proclaimed a fierce introversion, but that appears to have done a 180.  I used to get worn out by a 10-minute phone call, now I think I could wear out an entire European hamlet in 10 days and have enough social energy left over to conquer Orlando.  Or maybe Topeka... who knows. ;D


EDIT: Is depo a form of progesterone, or no?  I've seen conflicting info on that one.

Estrogen has the opposite effect on me, but I don't know what is this depo you speak of.  Once I was on progesterone for a while however I got over the roller coaster mood swings, but when I had to be off it for about 2 weeks I was totally overcome by what I can only describe as a horrible sense of weltschmerz...

from Wikipedia:
The modern meaning of Weltschmerz in the German language is the psychological pain caused by sadness that can occur when realizing that someone's own weaknesses are caused by the inappropriateness and cruelty of the world and (physical and social) circumstances.  Weltschmerz in this meaning can cause depression, resignation and escapism...

It was a kind of world weary sadness that things could never possibly be right.  It bordered frighteningly near dysphoria, which I hadn't felt since my SRS surgery.  As soon as my progesterone levels were restored (and my estrogen dose tripled) I felt happy, cured, and in control again.  Hormones can definitely have a big effect on our moods, so I wouldn't rule out something to do with that as the cause.

Jen's suggestion of getting out and having more interactions with others is also good advice.

Quote from: JungianZoe on May 02, 2011, 06:25:15 PM
Thank you, each and every one, for responding with the little tips and hints!  I found out today that one of the side effects of depo is depression, and that could be (in part) what I'm experiencing.  When I was on spiro and E, I didn't feel this way (my T levels stayed at 650 though, so no suppression).  In fact, on spiro, I cranked out my honors thesis, worked 30 hours a week, took another class, and went through the entire grad school application process.

Now my productivity is shot.  T levels are nicely suppressed, but switching to depo caused what I know to have been a bit of depression for the first three months of the year.  Then, in March, my doc doubled my E on top of the regular depo shot.  Things have been sliding downhill ever since, to the point that I even told a friend last night that I was a monster who crushed everything she loves.

Today's been a bit brighter since I was able to get out of the house (therapist appointment and work) but now that I'm home, that old feeling is coming back.  I have a long history of suicidal depression going back to my first attempt at the age of 11, and while I can say this isn't as bad as my darkest moments, those darker moments are full of nasty thoughts instead of being total voids like they once were.  I try so hard to tell myself good thoughts, but the stupid crap my abusive stepmom fed to me rises to the surface.  But I try... I really do try to break that pattern and put better thoughts in their place.  My friend also told me last night that it sounded like the boy self was pushing through, not the shining girl that she's come to know the past few months.

I consider myself very spiritual, but not religious.  No matter how much I've read about mindfulness, all of that teaching goes out the window when I'm at my worst (at the time I need it the most).  The dark thoughts are so stubborn that they push away good thoughts.  The more positive the thought, the harder it pushes.  Maybe it's just practice, I don't know.  But I'm just tired of spending the last two or three hours of every day in tears, unable to move a muscle because my whole body feels like it's carrying a jetliner.

As far as reaching out goes, I'm just not good at it.  My dad and stepmom abused me physically, mentally, and emotionally, but my mom and stepdad had a strict "no whining" rule.  You didn't talk unless it was cheery and they didn't want to hear anything else.  Though they support me in my transition, they still tune out as soon as you say something is wrong (and sometimes begin to yell that they don't want to hear about my problems).  They'll share in joy, but nothing else.  So I very much have a fear of reaching out to anyone at all.  If my parents won't even listen, then who will?  I don't want my friends to disappear because I'm not smiling.

I agree with rejennyrated that progesterone helps to improve mood and libidio - I find the same thing. The past 3 days I haven't taken my progesterone because I have run out, and I have sort of fallen into that old pattern of hopeless thinking. I also was suicidally depressed in my teens, since thirteen, and I had many attempts, although non were successful (well obviously, since I am here writing this :P).

I'm also like you in that I feel I am responsible for destroying or damaging many of my loving relationships in the past. I often feel like I am bad person for pursuing transition to the detriment of my wife, my family etc. My stepmother told me "you need to consider others when you take action" implying that I didn't consider the impact on my loved ones when I started all of this. In the same conversation she told me "I prayed to God to have a daughter when I had your younger sister, because I already had a son. I don't believe God can be wrong". Well, what a wonderful thing for her to say, which is really a circuitous way of expressing that she doesn't believe I am female. Thanks mum. I simply replied "I don't believe in your religion, I can only follow my heart.". She was silent for a moment, and told me that she understood, although she didn't agree.

Unlike you, my parents were never abusive - they always took wonderful care of me, and showed me love in their own way. We were always rather distant physically (never any hugging or kissing) and my father was never able to connect emotionally. However, when I was in the throes of teenage depression, cutting my wrists, putting my head in the oven with the gas on, things like that, dad always made it about him. "Why are you doing this to me?" was a common thing he would say. Finally one day, when I was 16 or 17, he said to me "Poor you, you always expect people to help you." I have never forgotten that, even though 15 years later dad is different now, and far more open. I always knew it was a chemical thing, and combined with general teenage angst, and feeling like a freak for wanting to become a girl didn't help. Finally I went on Prozac and after a year I got better.

That was a bit of a tangent I guess. With regards to depression and hrt, my first six months of hrt I was in the best mood of my life. Then I started Androcur and injectable estradiol valerate, and that sent me into the worst depression I have ever experienced. I spent six months unable to find any joy in anything, and all I could think of was finding a way out of the pain, in other words dying. I began to research euthansia methods, and found a method that I could use that was simple, painless, with easily obtainable materials. I bought all the implements and left them sitting in my cupboard for weeks. Then when the day came for me to do it, I set everything up and just sat in my room sobbing for hours. See, I could never do it. I knew I could never do it, because I knew I didn't want to die, I just wanted the pain to go away. In my mind, when I would picture the act of dying, I could never mentally follow through. If I could never mentally follow through, I knew I could never physically follow through. I threw all of the suicide stuff away after that.

For me, Androcur was a huge contributing factor in the depression. Once I stopped taking it my mood lifted, although I do get down on occassion, and still think of suicide as an option, but I am more in control of my emotions now, and whenever those thoughts surface I understand that it is partly hormonal, and partly my frame of reference which I have built over many years. I read a post on susans recently where somebody wrote something like "Once you have considered suicide, it will always remain an option in your mind". For me that rings true. I am convinced that clinical depression is predominantly chemical, but the way you deal with it, that's self-disicipline and habit. If, when you are depressed, it is your habit to stay at home with the lights out, brooding and listening to sad music, and contemplating suicide, that is something you can change. It's all about forcing yourself to go out and do things that make you happy. I think things like exercise, clean diet, not drinking or taking drugs, and having good friends around you helps. Ultimately, it's about thinking about other things that help. When depressive feelings surface I like to do things like focus on work, go out and have a nice meal, or play a challenging video game.

If your friends are real, then they will stay by your side regardless if you are smiling or crying. They know the true beauty inside you. They will understand that you are going through a difficult time in your life. If they disappear, then, my dear, we call those "fair weather friends" and those aren't worth having. I might be overstepping a boundary here, but I would say the same for parents. If they want nothing to do with you when you are unhappy - when it REALLY counts - what in heavens are they good for?

However, while we can leave friends who don't treat us in the right way (god knows I've cut off all ties with putative friends who have used me one too many times) we are usually stuck with our parents. Sometimes, with parents, you need to force things. You need to come out and tell them that you need them to listen to you, good and bad, and if you have an argument, that might be viewed as a good thing. A good argument, where you express your real emotions, will bring truth out into the open, and if your relationship with your parents is meant to be, then it may draw you closer. It could go the other way though.

I guess I'm just saying if you want your parents to understand and listen to you, you need to keep going to them time and again and express your emotions, make it clear how important it is that they listen to you, and if they don't listen the first time, then try again, and again until they relent. You're their child, you have a right to badger them about your feelings, just as they have a right to tell you how they feel, be it negative or positive. You may very well end up arguing. You may well end up arguing a LOT. I personally think every argument in which true feelings are expressed is productive, as long as the dialogue continues afterwards and nobody says "I'm never talking to you again, get out of my life". I don't know, it might work, it might not, that's how I do it and it works with my parents, but my parents chalk that down to stubborn and flakey me.

Quote from: JungianZoe on May 02, 2011, 06:25:15 PM
Ugh... I'm just going to shut up now.

There's no need to tell yourself to shut up, we're all here to listen to one another and support one another through what, for many of us, is an extremely difficult path. You should never have to apologize for feeling the way you feel.

Quote from: JungianZoe on May 02, 2011, 07:24:36 PM
EDIT: Is depo a form of progesterone, or no?  I've seen conflicting info on that one.

You'd better check! If it's depo provera, this is not real micronized progesterone, but rather a synthetic progestin. I've heard bad things about provera in that it causes depression in some patients, although I have never tried it. Injectable would be worse if you are one of the unlucky ones to be susceptible to depression whilst on it, since it would stay in your system for much longer than orals would.

I should add this... especially with there being a correlation between taking it and depression symptoms presenting (maybe I'm assuming that?) Depo does sound suspicious.  I would also suggest tweaking hormone levels.  The other things I said may help with coping in the meantime though.

Estrogen did not cause depression for me, for the record.  It affected my mood in a very positive way almost immediately.  I have never taken progesterone.

Sarah, Andream... for what you've shared, for those kind words, I wish I had more than a "thank you" to offer.  That really, really touched my heart and gave me all sorts of happy.  :icon_hug:

I know this is a message board, a place to reach out, a safe environment (well... as safe as a message board can be!) to share our thoughts with others, but I never lose touch with the fact that real people are at the heart of every message, and I'm as hesitant to vent or complain here as I am in my everyday life.  It took me two hours last night to build up the courage to write the OP in this thread.  Then I got all nervous that everyone would tell me I was too whiny and self-centered (I had a few other expository posts yesterday that I wanted to take back, but didn't).  It's the treatment I'm used to when I open my mouth.

My friends have been very understanding lately of my need to get stuff off my chest, I only fear that I go too far and do it too often.  They insist I don't, but that internal dictator tells me it's time to stop.  There's nobody in the world that can take an endless barrage of crap from anyone.

Which takes me back to the therapist, and motivation to find a job so I can make visits a bit more frequently.  :laugh:

What was said about suicide always remaining an option once you think about it (much less attempt it, much less attempt it over 20 times in varying degrees of severity) hits far too close to home.  I notice the pattern in my brain: something goes wrong (or I perceive it to go wrong), I catastrophize to the Nth degree, and within five minutes I'm crying and thinking of ways to off myself.  I've lived with this long enough to have counterbalance to those thoughts, and now that I'm full time, I would never in a million years act on them.  I'm beginning to learn to love myself, as well as being patient and compassionate with myself, for the first time in my life.  I finally claimed my true identity and that's not something I could ever give up for a temporary problem that will look better in the morning.

That doesn't make the thoughts or emotions any easier to live with though.  But no worries, Sarah, you won't read about my suicide anywhere.  And that's a promise.  ^-^  I've made that promise to a bunch of people lately.

Quote from: andream on May 02, 2011, 07:46:36 PM
You'd better check! If it's depo provera, this is not real micronized progesterone, but rather a synthetic progestin. I've heard bad things about provera in that it causes depression in some patients, although I have never tried it. Injectable would be worse if you are one of the unlucky ones to be susceptible to depression whilst on it, since it would stay in your system for much longer than orals would.

Yes, what I take is depo provera, yes it's injected, and it lasts three months.  All in line with what you said.  I got my last shot five weeks ago, so I've got another two months to sit this out and hope the situation improves.  I'll bring this up (loudly, if necessary) with my doctor when I have my June visit.  Problem is, spiro didn't work to suppress my T levels, and the depo does.  Don't know what other tricks she'd have up her sleeve if I can't do spiro for physical reasons or depo for emotional ones.

  I'm on Provera, not Depo with the separate estrodiol.  My Provera dosages are modulated in the first part of the calendar regimen.  I had depression before the HRT but I noticed it gone during the Provera part of the second month on HRT when the dosages were increased!  It was that quick, but gradual enough to be caught off guard.  But why I actually gained muscle mass during this time is a mystery, but welcomed!
  Joelene

I suffered from Depression for years, and despite years of therapy and antidepressants,it only  began to lift once I worked out it was largely due to GID.

  I believe it finally ceased about a month before I started HRT ,nearly a month ago, and although there have been a couple of incidents which upset me it hasn't returned.  I now feel a lot more settled and less sensitive to setbacks. 

My Endo basically prescribes the contraceptive pill which contains both Estrogen and micronised Progesteron ( to help shut down the Pituitary and so switch off T production apparently). 

Since I have been taking it I have had a constant slightly euphoric feeling, in a way that I had only begun to  feel intermittently in the weeks prior to HRT. I think it is actually called happiness, but since it is many years since I experienced it for prolonged  periods I am not sure.  I hope so.

Karen.

Quote from: justmeinoz on May 02, 2011, 11:04:37 PM
Since I have been taking it I have had a constant slightly euphoric feeling, in a way that I had only begun to  feel intermittently in the weeks prior to HRT. I think it is actually called happiness, but since it is many years since I experienced it for prolonged  periods I am not sure.  I hope so.

Karen.

Lol this made me smile :).  Yes that weird slightly euphoric feeling you have been experiencing is probably what they call "happiness."  It's nice, isn't it?

PS- Zoe these boards are here to support people, it is their purpose.  I get why you feel hesitant to vent, but please don't.  If it helps you feel better, just post when you feel good about life too and we'll call it even :).

Oxytocin is also the hormone that can reduce the symptom of anxiety and it is produced in the body, the lack of it could cause depression. Simulate the nipples increase its secretion.

Quote from: JoyceChin on May 03, 2011, 01:44:55 AM
Oxytocin is also the hormone that can reduce the symptom of anxiety and it is produced in the body, the lack of it could cause depression. Simulate the nipples increase its secretion.

Whoa... I've studied oxytocin quite extensively and never even thought about that!  Worth a try; at least I'd get some fun out of it.  ;D

But whatever is going on, I may need to call the doctor earlier than my June visit because this is getting out of hand.  Had a bit of a fight with a friend of mine over texts, which is far too easy given that she's Russian (a political refugee) and sometimes doesn't construe the meaning of my words too well, and sometimes she's incredibly blunt about things.  Well she was telling me about a program she worked for a few years ago and suggested I should try to get in when it starts in August.  I told her that my economic reality is that I need to find a job ASAP, spend my evenings researching more grad programs I want to get into, and then I can think about doing other things (including the program, which sounded great and I would love to do it)

Now I'll admit that I'm a bit jealous because she got into both grad programs she applied to, and I only got one interview from all the applications I sent in (but didn't get into the program, which was the same school where I did my undergrad).  But when she told me that I always snub opportunity, I kind of lost it.  I graduated with a 4.0, got Latin honors (summa) after doing a 35-page honors thesis on the factor structure of the Beck Depression Inventory-II in postpartum depression (where I also did my oxytocin research), scored 1380 on the GRE (650 verbal, 730 math, 5.0 writing), was an officer in two honor societies (Golden Key and Psi Chi), student affiliate of the APA, and worked three and a half years as a psychology tutor for the university, doing scheduled hourly individual and group sessions (including tutoring students with physical and psychiatric disabilities).  The only opportunity I didn't take was clinical experience, and that was purely a time issue--I had to work 30+ hours a week to pay rent, pay bills, and eat.  It turns out, by the way, that my lack of clinical experience was the only reason I didn't get into the program at my school.  Every other interviewee had it and the committee wouldn't take my tutoring experience as a substitute (this according to my professor, who said he tried to plead my case to deaf ears).

From that comment my friend made about my relationship with opportunity, I just spiraled down and down and down some more, until I was laying in bed at 2:30, still unable to sleep after two hours of crying.  All I could think was that I was a total failure who would never make it in this world no matter how hard I try.  I now have no grad school to look forward to, no job lined up after mine ends this Thursday, and I'm so depressed when I think of any of it that I don't even have the presence of mind to update my resume.  And I'm not sure I could handle another round of grad school rejections.

A normal person would look at all the love they have in their life, buckle up, find that job, not think themselves a total failure, and carry on.  I'm just defeated, and I know I shouldn't feel this way.  I know it's probably the hormones talking, and I want to talk louder than they do, but my eyes tear up every time I open my resume and look at all the things I did that led me nowhere.  All of the dreams that now seem unattainable.

I know there are other paths... all I tried was Ph.D. programs, which was stupid.  But I listened to my advisors at school who said I'd make the first cut at any school given my credentials.  How wrong they were, and how stupid I was to blindly follow.  I should have tried Masters programs like my friend (who, as I said, got into both of her programs).  She didn't even apply to psych Ph.D. programs because of how competitive they are.

In any case, I'm rambling again.  Just another night where I spent at least two hours crying, two hours dwelling... this isn't like me.  I'm changing physically in all the ways I want, but emotionally it's become a serious struggle to even get out of bed at a time when I need to be at my best.

So yes... I'm calling the doctor today.

Quote from: JungianZoe on May 02, 2011, 06:25:15 PM

I consider myself very spiritual, but not religious. 

We share that attribute.  I think it's a rather good thing. :)

Quote from: JungianZoeAs far as reaching out goes, I'm just not good at it.

  . . .

I don't want my friends to disappear because I'm not smiling.

Ugh... I'm just going to shut up now.

Don't shut up too much.  ;) Your friends here won't abandon you, no matter how much you you tell us about your feelings.  Many of us have had similar experiences and feelings, and we understand and appreciate how difficult it can be.  I hope you can talk to your physician about lowering your dose of DP, or even switch you to natural progesterone, which doesn't always cause the same symptoms as synthetic medroxyprogesterone does.

Quote from: Caith on May 06, 2011, 06:35:32 AM
I hope you can talk to your physician about lowering your dose of DP, or even switch you to natural progesterone, which doesn't always cause the same symptoms as synthetic medroxyprogesterone does.

I'm going to be doing just this when I see the doc in two weeks, because the situation just isn't improving.

At the same time, this depressed feeling is so confounded that I have no clue what might be the cause.  The depo?  All the changes lately?  In the last month, I've gone through my name change (will be legal in 10 days), had fights with one of my closest friends, made up with her, had her come to town (then go back home), got outed in front of a group of about 75 people, lost my job (by law, nothing I did) and was unable to spend much time with any of my other friends because almost all of their lives are falling apart spectacularly.  Add to all of this the lousy weather, constant clouds and rainstorms, and I know my seasonal depression has relapsed due to lack of sun.  Then, as a lovely topping on this cake, my dad severed all contact with me after finding out I was trans before I had the chance to tell him.  I'm still not sure how... he was simply the last person I was coming out to because I needed to muster all the strength and support I could get before doing it.

So that's been the last 25 days of my life...

I look back on the last 25 days and I honestly don't know where they went, nor can I even account for what I did.  All I feel is this terrible weight around me that takes every one of my thoughts down with it, good or bad.  I've spent between 2 to 8 hours of every single day in tears, I can't even look for a job without breaking down, I can't make a phone call without breaking down, I can't even think of applying to more graduate schools, much less doing it.  Nothing really sticks out to me, like I've lived every second in a fog.

My darkest, darkest thoughts have returned and there have been nights that I've been terrified to be alone.  And then I had this electrolysis appointment (my second, and with a different person than my first) that I'm terrified damaged my skin, and my skin is one of the few things about myself that I truly love.  If I willfully damaged it... now I start crying.  I can't handle all of this.  It's all falling apart around me. :icon_cry2:

I wish I could go see my therapist but I'll be bankrupt in two days as it is.  All I have is this overpowering feeling that the world doesn't need me.  My heart knows that's wrong (dead wrong), but my brain is so screwed up right now.

Can't even write any more through the tears.  Something has to give soon.  I keep praying this hopeless feeling is because of the depo and I'll feel okay once it leaves my body, and I'll have enough power to start putting my life back on track.  I simply can't stand this depression any longer.  I look at the circumstances of my life, that I shouldn't be experiencing this.  I'm blessed with a lot of love and support, so why can't I even get out of bed?

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on May 29, 2011, 11:34:49 AM
Can't even write any more through the tears.  Something has to give soon.  I keep praying this hopeless feeling is because of the depo and I'll feel okay once it leaves my body, and I'll have enough power to start putting my life back on track.  I simply can't stand this depression any longer.  I look at the circumstances of my life, that I shouldn't be experiencing this.  I'm blessed with a lot of love and support, so why can't I even get out of bed?

You can't even get out of bed because you're suffering from all of seasonal, situational, and chemical-induced depression, simultaneously.  :'(  Before taking anti-depressant medication, I had entire weekends (and sometimes weeks) like that.  I seriously hope you can hang on until seeing your physician and switching to natural progesterone.  Don't give up!

Quote from: Caith on May 29, 2011, 02:20:32 PM
You can't even get out of bed because you're suffering from all of seasonal, situational, and chemical-induced depression, simultaneously.  :'(  Before taking anti-depressant medication, I had entire weekends (and sometimes weeks) like that.  I seriously hope you can hang on until seeing your physician and switching to natural progesterone.  Don't give up!

Thank you... :)  I'm hanging on.  Just barely sometimes, but working at it.  Unfortunately, I need to be so much more than "hanging on" right now, I need to be at my top performance.  That I'm sometimes too depressed to stand up (I swear, it physically hurts) makes it pretty difficult.

Going to ask my doc in two weeks about switching my AA and/or going on antidepressants.  Believe it or not, I've suffered very severe depression since I was 11 and I've never tried antidepressants before.  Part of my brain told me I needed to fight it through sheer willpower, but when I can't walk a straight line or get out of bed, it's tough to fight.  All four of my parents said growing up that depression was just a sign of weakness.  I'm starting to find flaws in that logic, especially after going through a psychology program at school (trying to get into grad school for it now).

I never believed that depression was a sign of weakness in anyone but me though... I'm so unforgiving of myself.  But I'm working on fixing that too.

Tomorrow's the big day!  Perhaps, at last, my doc can help me kick this depression either by adjusting my hormones or or helping out with some antidepressants.  It's a huge mental barrier to overcome, admitting that I can't handle this alone, that I can't fight it through sheer willpower.  But I can't.  Not any more.  I don't even know what's happened to the last month and a half, it's like I've lived in a daze.  Each day is just a blur.  I got nothing done... nothing at all.

I'm not expecting miracles, just the hope that there's some medical way to lighten the load on my brain and body.

Quote from: Zoë Natasha on May 02, 2011, 12:27:40 AM

Maybe it's also because I have the flu, but this weekend truly sucked and I never got out of my apartment due to illness.  So all this time alone, friends busy and not answering calls, no responses to texts, and now my thoughts are in doom and gloom mode.

"I didn't get into grad school and everyone I know who applied did."  Oh, so I'm a total failure.
"I haven't had a date in three years."  Now I'm ugly and unapproachable too.
"Why doesn't anyone pick up the phone?"  Because I'm being clingy and needy and I should stop.
"I'm depressed."  Nobody wants to hear it, it's only me, and who cares anyway?
"Really?  Your happiness doesn't matter?"  Got that right.

This is just so typical of my thoughts lately, and they should be gone by this time of year.  I'm trying hard to be confident, but it's difficult when I feel like I'm the ugly duckling who'll never pass in a million years.

WOW. You sound exactly like.... me. I relate to all of that in an uncanny way.

All I know is that...
1. Transition is hard, and much can be lost before we are finished.
2. We are going through a female puberty, complete with the emotions and mood swings that accompany them, but with adult worries and fears. I have my days where all I do is sleep, or cry, or feel like my chest is going to explode from anxiety because nothing seems to be moving forward at all. I sit and think "I could die and nobody would care, because they don't even check in to see how I am at all." That's not true, of course, but our body chemistry is changing, our bodies are changing, and our minds are changing and adjusting.

The only advice I can offer besides talking to your therapist or Dr about changing dosage is to try not to spend too much time alone. Hugs.... it does get better.

Zoe,

I just noticed your original post, I am sorry to hear how life seems to be lately. I say seem because when things start to get back to normal this is how you will think about that time. "boy life seemed so terrible months ago". I have been where you are now and I have been to where I look back and say "Wow! I don't feel like that now". The problem is I can't stay like that, I try but I think my mind is so use of staying miserable that I intentionally go back in that dark hole.

I just love it when someone knows about your depression and says "you just have to stay busy, and not think bad thoughts. Ya like I wake up and say to myself "you know I want to feel like crap today and think of ways to kill my self". They are right in saying keep busy, but its harder then hell to even walk when your stomach is literally aching from the depression, you feel like puking but your not the least bit sick and how can you do anything when any type thought turns you into a sobbing mess. I have always tried to think good thoughts when I get like this, even then they turn to tragic thoughts. My thoughts of my children make me happy, when I get a bad episode I think happy thoughts of my children to help but they soon turn to thoughts of them dying and then I'm a complete mess.

I am writing this to tell you, YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN YOUR THOUGHTS! Things will get better, it may not even stay good for too long, but eventually good turns to better, better turns to not to bad and not to bad turns to GREAT. I have not gotten to the part where everything is great, I honestly don't feel I ever will (maybe after SRS) but I would like to get to the point that I could say "ya knooww life ain't that bad" I'm not sure I can even get to that point. :(

I sunk into deep depression 5 years ago, 2 years ago I started hrt. I will say I am not in constant deep depression but there are times I fall into darkness and those times have sometimes been worse then the times I was in constant deep depression. I am on Spiro and my T is down to about a 3. I'm on injects for E twice a month,  I am not sure what my E is, havn't had it tested in awhile. I am also on anti D's. It does seem like I have big downs but not too many and not to big of ups. I feel my worst at times my second week into my shot, I'm not sure if its the E getting low or if its because I am not with my children.

Quote from: April Dawne on June 15, 2011, 04:49:09 PM
"I could die and nobody would care, because they don't even check in to see how I am at all."

This is true for me. I have my children every other week, on the weeks I don't have them if I were to die in bed or somewhere at home, it would be my children to find me a week later. My phone doesn't ring, no one comes over and I am self employed. No one would care or even know. Life as a hermit is great! :-\ I can joke about this now as I am feeling ok, but at those times of darkness, it was something else to dwell on and I'm sure I will again.

Your neighborhood hermit
Shelly

Thank you both, April and Shelly!

All of these thoughts are far too familiar after fighting this for 23 years.  I was only 10 years old when I felt it all starting to unravel and my entire adult life has been like scratching the bottom of the barrel hoping for a spark.  I've rarely ever felt fulfilled, ecstatic, peaceful, confident... all of these are foreign to me.

The worst part is that I know my brain is playing tricks on me.  Yes, I was the recipient of more parent-inflicted head beatings than any child should ever endure.  Yes, I was emotionally abused and used as a pawn in my stepmother's game of revenge against my mom.  Yes, I was told by my dad and stepmom on a near-daily basis that I'd always be a failure, I was a horrible person, and I deserved to die.  What I don't understand is how I internalized all of that and why I believed it.  Why did I believe people I didn't even like and who abandoned me after years of forgiving them?

People who don't suffer depression of this magnitude rarely understand what it's about.  Like you said, Shelly, we're told to do something to distract ourselves.  But as you eloquently pointed out, those distractions turn as fatalistic as the thoughts we try to escape.  Think you're worthless?  Distract yourself by going to the park.  Look at the lake, see the birds, and cry because you feel like you're not even a part of life, that the animals have far more right to be here than you do.  Think then that you really are worthless and all the beauty stands in contrast to how ugly you and your soul are.  So you go get some food to escape the thoughts, and you cry because the taste of food is far too good for the likes of you.  You deserve nothing.  And so you go home to a lonely place and collapse on the floor, unable to move a muscle and sobbing all the while.  But it's not sobbing, it's wailing.  You pound the floor, feel the carpet, and think if you died right there, it wouldn't be bad.

It's sick how pervasive these thoughts are, how they seep into everything.  Happy thoughts, bad thoughts, and the indifferent.  And I just can't go on living this way.  It's destroyed too much of my life.  I've already lost two hours of sleep tonight to crying.

I'm not looking for a miracle tomorrow, but I feel like I need a miracle.  All I want is to experience life like those who can feel joy... it would be such a nice change.

Oh how I wish I could just reach through here and give you a big hug  :icon_hug:

I know all too well the feelings you talk about, as do many others here I am sure. I had a very bad day two days ago, yesterday was good, today was indifferent. I feel joy but it's bittersweet, because part of me knows it's fleeting and will be gone as quickly as it came and I'll be stuck back here alone with nothing but myself and my thoughts. It's so easy to succumb to the darkness that I lived in for so many years, but somehow I manage to pull myself out of the funk before it takes me completely. Or like you, I just reach out. You truly aren't alone in this. I know how much it can feel that way. I know how the loneliness can hurt. I know about feeling that "I don't deserve to witness the beauty of life". But I really do deserve it. So do YOU. You deserve it so much more than you know. Hang on.

I wish I could offer more than strings of text as a way of helping, but it's all I have. You can make it. I can make it. WE can make it.

:icon_hug:

Honey, there are other ways to manage depression besides anti-depressants. I was diagnosed with clinical depression when I was 14 (long story, won't bore you with the details), and I was given anti-depressants to take, but they made me violently nauseous and distrustful of my own feelings.

Anyway, the upshot of it was that it was suggested I undergo CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/cognitive-behavioural-therapy/Pages/Introduction.aspx) - also known as the 'talking cure') and for me, it worked. It doesn't make it go away entirely, but it does give you some tools to be able to deal with it, without being reliant on taking a pill to make it go away.

Is this something you've considered?

*hug*

@ Sephirah very nice advice I may check into that myself.

Zoe

I wish I could say something to make any of these thoughts disappear, I can't I am struggling my self again!

I'm so lonely but if someone were to call or even come over it still wouldn't take the loneliness away.

We all will have better days, I know this!! I will stop for now I don't think I could write anything to possibly make anybody feel better, all I can do is relate to how familiar everyone's thoughts are the same as mine.

Please continue to post, even though many may not able to reply with any advice including myself for the fact of they are feeling the same. This may not sound good but it helps to know I am not the only one with very simular thoughts and feelings.

Please take care, we're all put here for a reason.
Shelly

Well Zoe, I can't contribute much to the topic of hormone balance not having much experience, but I do want to say that the only thing that has been keeping me sane and from going off the deep end is communication, I am taking things one day at a time, but just by communicating how I feel and what I am thinking I am preventing a total meltdown, and despite how bleak things look I am starting to think I might just be alright, I am not even sabotaging opportunities for myself as I would have done in the past. So please, don't feel bad venting, your feelings are important and you deserve to be happy.

I had so many more opportunities in life, then I ever was willing to admit, I focused totally on the negative, and then when an opportunity came along I came up with all these excuses to ruin it for myself. I understand now, that I felt I didn't deserve to be happy, and I was just waiting on something, anything to happen to solve my problems, but I am finally on the cusp of understanding that I too deserve a good fulfilling life, and communication is central to that.

Best of luck, and hang in there it will be alright. Hopefully after the hormone balance gets fixed you will be happier.

Not sure what to say about this morning, only hoping that I didn't get myself into trouble.

Basically, we didn't change my hormones.  I even got another three-month depo shot.  The doctor pointed out that I didn't have any reaction to the first shot (which is true).  Also, my depression didn't start until a month after my second shot.  She didn't say that it couldn't be because of the hormones, but the onset of my depression didn't correspond with the start of this regimen or any dosage changes.

She asked if this had ever happened to me before, and it had.  Many times.  The last time I remember feeling this bad was after a seven-day time period where I lost three family members, my ex filed for divorce, and I lost my job (not necessarily lost it, but it was ending because of summer break).  I was also anorexic at the time and 100 pounds.  Before that, the last time I remember being this depressed was during a month where I got laid off, lost my health insurance, got dumped, moved, and had my second serious bout of gender dysphoria.  That was in 2005 and was also the last time I attempted suicide.  Maybe the anorexia was a suicide attempt too, just not so obvious...

This time, I suffered grad school rejection, loss of job (thanks to state law), loss of half of my family (the ones who hurt me, and yet it still stings), adjusting to a new body and body chemistry, going bankrupt, and am feeling really lonely after three and a half years of being by myself.  But the catalyst for my sudden slide downhill was the moment I opened my final grad school rejection letter from my alma mater.  From that point (mid-April) to now, it's just been really tough.

It's a sure bet that the hormones have made me more emotional and so maybe the pain is burning a bit brighter, but an important distinction between the times before and now is that I haven't done a single thing to physically hurt myself this time.  In fact, I've remained kind to myself in the face of my brain screaming at me how I "deserve" punishment.  The kindness is something new and something positive, and yet it makes me cry as well because I've never been nice to myself as long as I've lived and it's putting into contrast how vicious I was to myself in the past.  So have the hormones helped me calm down to the point of keeping this depression somewhat manageable?  It doesn't feel like because it still feels like my life is totally out of control and I've been crying too much lately to do anything about it.  The second I try, I start crying.

So I have an appointment with my therapist on Monday and I'm going to tell her about all of this.  She hasn't seen me until two weeks into this slide, when I wasn't really sure it was a slide at all.  Then again, that was four days before my job ended and so I was still preoccupied with something I loved (and I truly loved my job).  What my doc said today was that, from a physical standpoint, my HRT regimen has been a miracle in the last three months.  We finally got my numbers where they need to be and she was shocked at my breast development (whereas I thought it was anemic... she told me it's a lot of growth for such a short time).  She was loathe to change the regimen and I agreed.  But she also said that if therapy wasn't helping and if, in a month, I still feel like I do now, to call her and she'll prescribe antidepressants.

I only hope this wasn't a mistake... but it's so typical of me to learn the hard way.

Thank you all for your continued advice and for sharing your own stories in this thread!  I take it all very much to heart and am glad to hear from others who've been here.  Many, many hugs to you all! :icon_hug:

estrogen is a natural depressant...

Quote from: jamie nicole on June 17, 2011, 02:50:33 PM
estrogen is a natural depressant...

Well I'm sure this really will help Zoe ?????????????????????

Quote from: Jamie Nicole on June 17, 2011, 02:50:33 PM
estrogen is a natural depressant...

That depends, girl!  To me, estrogen trumped the antidepressants that was given me before my HRT. 
  Joelene