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Kia Ora,

This topic is open to practitioners and non practitioners who have an interest in Buddhism...

I apologise if a similar topic has been posted in the past...

::) What's your take on Buddhism? What drew you to it? To you, is it a religion, something similar to Abrahamic belief systems but with no god figure=a non theistic religion/belief system ? Or perhaps it's the Buddhist philosophy with no god-centric strings attached that draws you...

For me personally I see it first and foremost as "Inner Science" studying the mind through meditation, however what originally drew me to Buddhism was its philosophy and how it views life...It's now become a way of life for me...

I'm no expert, even though I meditate everyday and attend weekly Buddhist meetings and attend Dharma talks once a month given by the Tibetan Lama who visits the island where I live, I don't consider myself a very devote practitioner , there are always things I feel I could be doing better to improve the lives of other sentient beings...

Even though I had been connected to the Buddha's teaching for many years[In the past I was fortunate enough to spend time in Buddhist countries or countries where Buddhism was the main Belief System] it was only around the time when I was part way through my transition,13 years ago [and going through a real rough patch] that I began to fully embrace the teachings...Since then Buddhism has changed my life, it reappeared when I needed it the most["When the student is ready the teacher will appear!"]...Through Buddhism I've learnt to overcome my fears, anxieties, and to let go and just go with life's flow...

Well that's my spill on what Buddhism is and has done[and will continue to do] for me...

How about you ? What has Gautama Siddhartha's teachings done[or you hope will do] for you?

Happy Mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :)

I view it like I do a flower. When you stop listening to words that describe it (that is a red rose I am looking at) and rather absorb its beauty without thought, that is when you are truly viewing what is there, and it begins to transform into a bond with all that is.

I do not think about it, for to think is not to perceive but rather to analyse, and enlightenment is better experienced and lived than deconstructed.

Buddhism simply IS, just as life is...

Kia Ora,

::)  Rejennyrated, But are you not just a thought who thinks it is not thinking about what it is thinking? ;)

::)  Christine, form is emptiness - emptiness is form - where  beauty is seen or felt there is attachment... :)

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on May 02, 2011, 05:11:39 AM

::)  Christine, form is emptiness - emptiness is form - where  beauty is seen or felt there is attachment... :)

Metta Zenda :)

Attachement and Identification are quite different. Though viewing something and looking at IT rather than a flower transcends all attachement to what we know, and moves your consciousness into the 5th dimension if only for a brief moment.

I am not a Buddhist but I do believe that of all the ways of life one can live, Buddhism is one of the better ways.  Most of the major religions in the world could learn a lot from Buddhism.

I've read the Tao Te Ching and I've read books about it.  Lao Tzu's philosophy is a lot like Buddah's.  Both seem to embrace finding peace and happiness from within.  Many followers of the "organized religions" try to change the world to fit their ideals.  That's a never ending battle.

The Eastern belief systems seem to say, "I am here if you want me.  I will accept you if you come."  Christianity, Islam and others like them have said, "I am here.  Now you will accept me, or else!"

Kia Ora,

::) Christine, it's true at times we all might get a glimpse of enlightenment 'Satori' as you described, but as soon as one attempts to attach one'self' to  it, it  fades back into Samsara...

Kia Ora Julie, it would seem that many people in the West are drawn to Buddhism because of it's philosophy on life...It's one of the fastest growing 'adopted' belief system in the West...Taoism and Buddhism tend to go hand in hand, when Buddhism reached China it 'naturally' blended in with Taoism like finding the missing piece of a puzzle...

Kia Ora Valerie, Thich Nhat Hanh's simple words of wisdom tends to fill ones mind...And it's all in the mind!

Happy Mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :)

I have a good friend who is also my yoga teacher and he and his wife are very devout Buddhists.  He knows of my transsexual history but has never treated me any differently at all.  In fact I asked him one time what were the Buddhist views on that, and he told me the best thing to strive for was being yourself, who you truly are, so there was no conflict at all as far as he was concerned.

I find meditation a very important resource and I'm drawn to the peaceful, non-confrontational aspects of Buddhism. Personally I consider myself more Taoist, which seems to be right in line with the Faerie Faith.  Yet I certainly have one hand clapping for Buddhism. ;)

Watching the practices in Malaysia, by the Chinese, it reminded me a LOT of Catholicism. Such a lot appears like hum-bug to an outsider.

It seems mankind is in need of all these 'structured rituals' above anything else... kind of difficult to take on board if you were not raised like that.

Axélle

As a non-practitioner, I see it as a philosophy. I think it has some very useful aspects, i.e., mindfulness, but to be honest, it really isn't for me.

Kia Ora,

::) Thanks for the comments [how you personally view Buddhism]...

::) It's interesting to see that some see it as a theistic religion where Buddhists 'worship and pray to the Buddha, like he is some kind of god figure...

::) I guess one has to take into account as Buddhism spread into other countries, local cultural practices were incorporated into the teachings[the Dharma] like ancestral worship for example, which greatly diluted the essences of his teachings...

::) Plus there's no question that much of modern day Buddhism as taken on a Western like 'congregation' feel to it, as both Axelle and  Andre  pointed out...Some Buddhist scholars  believe that this has come about in the last two to three hundreds years when Christian missionaries in great numbers arrived in Buddhist countries to 'save the Pagan's souls'...This congregation-like atmosphere brought by the Christian missionaries had greatly influenced/changed the way the local lay people[and some monks/teachers who taught the Dharma * Their version of the Dharma*] approached the teachings...   

::) Nowadays it would seem some followers are not 'putting into practice' what the Buddha taught,[ he went on to say "Don't just take my word for it, experience it, see for your self !"]  instead they are [like believers of other god-centric belief systems] hoping for a miracle to change their lives...They are focusing upon the 'finger' that points and not the 'object' to which it is pointing to...

::) It's interesting to note that when Buddhism met Taoism, Chan[Zen] was born out of this wedlock...Some believe Zen is the bullet train to enlightenment whilst the more conventional Buddhism is the slow boat...However the Buddha taught eighty four thousand ways for one to reach enlightenment...[I've looked at a couple so far, only 83998 and untold rebirths to go  ;) ;D] 

::) To sum up what the Buddha taught [in a nutshell-one of many]


::) This is all in my humble opinion of course.... ;)

Happy Sati [Mindfulness]

Metta Zenda :)

I view Buddhism the way I view Canada.

Quote from: Felix on December 28, 2011, 03:08:31 PM
I view Buddhism the way I view Canada.

Favourably I hope. ;)

Quote from: Caseyyy on December 28, 2011, 04:26:55 PM
Favourably I hope. ;)

Sure. :)

Kia Ora,

::) It's understandable that many people get the wrong end of the stick and see/view Buddhism as a somewhat pessimistic belief system, especially when they misinterpret what is meant by the Buddha's famous words "Life 'is' Dukkha"... Some interpret it to mean 'suffering', and  also believe what he meant was life 'mean' suffering and that  Buddhists have to bite the bullet and grin and bear it...

::) But Dukkha goes much deeper than that, and once one begins to explore the contents of Dukkha, when entering into the eight fold path, ones will gradually become more content with life...That is, go with the flow, by not taking life too seriously...One gradually begins see things as they really are [I'm still at the gradual stage of the journey] and not as ones mind has been conditioned to see to things/situations, one starts to go with the grain and not against it !

::) It's a belief system that puts the ball entirely in your court, one is fully responsible for ones happiness and ones sadness...With no reliance upon an 'outside' source...

::) But all this is for the individual to find out for themselves..."Seek and you shall find !"

http://www.chakrasambara.org/article.php (http://www.chakrasambara.org/article.php)

Happy Mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :)

* It's a belief system that puts the ball entirely in your court, one is fully responsible for ones happiness and ones sadness...With no reliance upon an 'outside' source... *

Interesting to note that some other 'systems' e.g. LGAT (Large Group Awareness Trainings) such as EST (Erhardt Seminars Trainings), and I AM and Joyspring (SA parallels) take most decidedly the same route.

We are responsible for our actions alone, e.g. if you are sad it is YOUR sadness and not someone or something 'done' you in, or such. It thus negates the 'being a victim' position.

Of course you may be cry - cleanse your soul - or what ever you want to call it, but DO NOT POINT A FINGER at like: this one made me do this or do that.

It's called as you say: taking responsibility for ALL your actions. Happiness, AND Unhappiness, etc.

Happiness BTW is a by-product of doing the 'right things'.
In Christian (more enlightened) thinking = 'not missing the mark' or not committing "sins" (NOT a dogma issue in this sense!)

Just to mention it,
Axélle

Quote from: Axélle-Michélle on December 29, 2011, 09:29:04 AM
* It's a belief system that puts the ball entirely in your court, one is fully responsible for ones happiness and ones sadness...With no reliance upon an 'outside' source... *

Interesting to note that some other 'systems' e.g. LGAT (Large Group Awareness Trainings) such as EST (Erhardt Seminars Trainings), and I AM and Joyspring (SA parallels) take most decidedly the same route.

We are responsible for our actions alone, e.g. if you are sad it is YOUR sadness and not someone or something 'done' you in, or such. It thus negates the 'being a victim' position.

Of course you may cry - cleanse your soul - or what ever you want to call it, but DO NOT POINT A FINGER at like: this one made me do this or do that.

It's called as you say: taking responsibility for ALL your actions. Happiness, AND Unhappiness, etc.

Happiness BTW is a by-product of doing the 'right things'.


Just to mention it,
Axélle

Kia Ora Axelle,

::) You will find that much of the modern Western new age beliefs[and pop psychology] are based upon ancient Eastern philosophical thought[Such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism]...And have been adapted to suit the Western mind set[The Western way of thinking]...

::) A good example of this is in the essay "Buddhism Meets Western Science", where Gay Watson explains:

" Buddhism has always been concerned with feelings, emotions, sensations, and cognition. The Buddha points both to cognitive and emotional causes of suffering. The emotional cause is desire and its negative opposite, aversion. The cognitive cause is ignorance of the way things truly occur, or of three marks of existence: that all things are unsatisfactory, impermanent, and without essential self.

The noble eightfold path is, from this psychological viewpoint, an attempt to change patterns of thought and behavior. It is for this reason that the first element of the path is right understanding (sammā-diṭṭhi), which is how one's mind views the world. Under the wisdom (paññā) subdivision of the noble eightfold path, this worldview is intimately connected with the second element, right thought (sammā-saṅkappa), which concerns the patterns of thought and intention that controls one's actions. These elements can be seen at work, for example, in the opening verses of the Dhammapada: The noble eightfold path is also the fourth noble truth.

"All experience is preceded by mind/perception,
Led by mind,
Made by mind.
Speak or act with a corrupted mind,
And suffering follows
As the wagon wheel follows the hoof of the ox!
All experience is preceded by mind/perception,
Led by mind,
Made by mind.
Speak or act with a peaceful mind,
And happiness follows
Like a never-departing shadow!"

Thus, by altering one's distorted worldview, bringing out "tranquil perception" in the place of "perception polluted", one is able to ease suffering. Watson points this out from a psychological standpoint:

Research has shown that repeated action, learning, and memory can actually change the nervous system physically, altering both synaptic strength and connections. Such changes may be brought about by cultivated change in emotion and action; they will, in turn, change subsequent experience !"

::) Happiness is just a state of mind!

::) Happy Mindfulness [which just means "Be mindful of ones thoughts, words and deeds!"]

Metta Zenda :)

Hello Everyone

My favorite subject,Tibetan Buddhism saved me from ten years of drug abuse, I don't
want to go into how it would take to long.
Where other people need to go into rehab or methadone program I defeated it with Buddhism.
I never left my house for three years ,not even to the letterbox, I would only get the mail after the
sun had gone down.
My favorite mantra is the Green Tara Mantra. (108 Repetitions)
OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SOHA.
Your mind,body,and speech are transformed into Tara's  holy mind ,holy body,
holy speech .
I repeat this Mantra every day, and every time my mind is Idle.
Buddhism taught me the right way to live.
I think I have about 30 books on Buddhism , I especially like the writing of the great Buddhist
sages, Nagarjuna and Shantideva but I admire them all.
I still live a solitary life to this day.
I could go on but enough said for now.

OM TARE TUTTARE TURE SOHA

Namaste'

Atomic Kitten

I chose Way of Life in the poll.

I was first drawn to Buddhism through Thich Nh'at Hahn's book Living Buddha, Living Christ. A friend at my Christian church invited me to his Soto Zen sangha in 2005 and I've been practicing irregularly since then.

To me Buddhism is a way of life. But, I see religion as a way of live. My own personal practice is an amalgamation of various religions.

I hope that Siddhartha's teachings will help me to become a more peaceful person. They seem to be very much compatible with what I've been taught were the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth, even if the latter seem more religious than the former.

I view it as a philosophy; Siddhartha was nothing if not a philosopher, after all.

I view Buddhism as all of the answers available in the poll, and much more.

I first encountered Buddhism as a child. I started asking questions about some of my meditation-like experiences at a very young age, and found Zen during my early teens. That same interest later led me to study religions at the university and Zen is still one of my main areas of focus.

For me, Zen is mostly a way of being in the world. I'm not comfortable with labels or restrictions, and my viewpoint to Zen is very general and "western" - making a difference between the classical Zen traditions in Japan and the modern adaptations.

My practice is about learning to take all that happens in life with a sense of serenity, and give some effort to make my life feel like awareness/meditation. And to practice curiosity, mindfulness and compassion towards all that is.

None of the above, and all of the above, without contradiction :)

Two of my teachers, very used to speaking to Western students, specially those with an education in either of the three areas — religion, philosophy, science — love this topic and are always fond of doing some lectures about it.

When the Theosophists coined the word "Buddhism" in the 19th century, they thought it was "the religion founded by Siddhartha, the Buddha". Had they spent a bit more time asking practitioners how they called themselves (they simply call themselves "practitioners of the Buddhadharma"), they might never come up with this new word. However, we're stuck to it.

From the perspective of an outsider, Buddhism has rituals. So it surely must be a religion. There are sacred temples, sacred places, statues (actually introduced by the Greeks in the time of Alexander the Great; so this was a Western contamination), sacred art (at least in some Buddhist schools). There are often elaborate rituals with lots of incomprehensible steps. There are recitations, and prostrations, and offerings. So all these look like a religion, and, for many people claiming to be Buddhists, specially in the East, that's what they think it is.

From the perspective of a scholar, it's a philosophy. It has flawless logic to expound certain very difficult aspects of the doctrine. In the past, the ability to properly debate with others and learning how to win arguments using logic was strongly encouraged; in India, before Islam invaded and destroyed Buddhism, it was common that the best debaters would "force" the losers in a debate to "convert" to their views. This was mostly what made Buddhism spread quite quickly. Islam used a different way to deal with them: put them to the sword, burn their universities, and get rid of those pesky debaters :) (Buddhism was reintroduced gradually in India during the 20th century). These days, however, these debates do not have the same results as before, and nobody expects the losing side to "convert". Nevertheless, some Buddhist schools still encourage learning a lot of texts, logic, and debating techniques. For these reasons, many still view it as mostly a philosophy.

From the perspective of a scientist, Buddhism is a science of the mind. It developed thousands of successful techniques that anyone can learn to understand how their mind works, and, through a thorough training, achieve a repeatable result. This is not unlike what psychology does in the West (even though, of course, the basic assumptions are quite different!). Buddhism is mostly about empirical experience as a result of critical thinking and logical reasoning, put into practice. Since the focus is how to achieve that experience using tested, repeatable methods, it is akin to the scientific method used in the West to acquire knowledge. As such, it's a science.

And of course it can be seen as a way of life which includes all those aspects.

However, it's also none of them.

It's not a religion in the strict sense of the word: religion comes from the Latin word meaning "connecting again", and, in most religions, it means connecting back to something originally lost (e.g. a link to a deity, a link to the Universe, a link to the inner soul, whatever the religion preaches to be lost). In the highest Buddhist teachings, nothing really is lost; you're already a Buddha, you are just not able to recognise it due to what is called one's obscurations. What the Buddhist training accomplishes is a way to remove those obscuration. But there is nothing "gained" which was not there in the first place (how could that be otherwise). You're not really "linking back to your lost soul" or something like that; there is nothing there to "link back". So it cannot be a religion.

Words in Buddhism are just important as a prelude to practice. They're to be seen as instruction manuals or cooking recipes. Being a cook doesn't mean being able to read cooking books; it means having the experience to turn them into delightful food and eating it. Buddhism is pretty much about eating, and not about writing recipes. However, you need the recipes to remind you of what you're supposed to do when you're cooking a meal. Since the focus is not on the texts, the logic, the debating, the argumentation, but in what you do with all that and put into practice, it cannot be just a philosophy. Not putting the texts into practice is meaningless in Buddhism.

Science is acquisition of knowledge, and fitting theoretical models to the real world, using a vast array of methodologies; technology is applying science to solve concrete problems. Now Buddhism is little interested in acquiring knowledge, and ultimately, that acquisition of knowledge has just a purpose: enabling better practice. It's true that the empirical aspect of Buddhism is very important; it's even more important in Buddhism than in Western science! So, a scientist might be expected merely to acquire knowledge in a meaningful, repeatable, independently validated way. While Buddhism uses the same approach, the purpose is not to acquire knowledge by itself; knowledge is used to be put in practice; acquired knowledge without a practical purpose is also meaningless. So, strictly speaking, while Buddhism shows many aspects of a "science of the mind", in the sense that it produces methods for one's own investigation of what the mind is and how it works, the description of those methods are uninteresting unless they're put into practice and experienced. The focus is thus on the experience, not on the method or the accumulated knowledge. Science is less about the experience and more about the methods to accumulate knowledge, although, obviously, that knowledge is meant to be useful in some way.

Perhaps the issue about Buddhism being "a way of life" is harder to refute, since "way of life" is something very vague. If by "way of life" one means that there is a certain method, which, put into practice, achieves a result that benefits us and others, and all we do with our life is to constantly and tirelessly follow that method, then, well, we're probably quite close in defining what Buddhism is supposed to be about.

Quote from: Sandra M. Lopes on December 20, 2012, 09:59:01 PM
None of the above, and all of the above, without contradiction :)

Two of my teachers, very used to speaking to Western students, specially those with an education in either of the three areas — religion, philosophy, science — love this topic and are always fond of doing some lectures about it.

When the Theosophists coined the word "Buddhism" in the 19th century, they thought it was "the religion founded by Siddhartha, the Buddha". Had they spent a bit more time asking practitioners how they called themselves (they simply call themselves "practitioners of the Buddhadharma"), they might never come up with this new word. However, we're stuck to it.

From the perspective of an outsider, Buddhism has rituals. So it surely must be a religion. There are sacred temples, sacred places, statues (actually introduced by the Greeks in the time of Alexander the Great; so this was a Western contamination), sacred art (at least in some Buddhist schools). There are often elaborate rituals with lots of incomprehensible steps. There are recitations, and prostrations, and offerings. So all these look like a religion, and, for many people claiming to be Buddhists, specially in the East, that's what they think it is.

From the perspective of a scholar, it's a philosophy. It has flawless logic to expound certain very difficult aspects of the doctrine. In the past, the ability to properly debate with others and learning how to win arguments using logic was strongly encouraged; in India, before Islam invaded and destroyed Buddhism, it was common that the best debaters would "force" the losers in a debate to "convert" to their views. This was mostly what made Buddhism spread quite quickly. Islam used a different way to deal with them: put them to the sword, burn their universities, and get rid of those pesky debaters :) (Buddhism was reintroduced gradually in India during the 20th century). These days, however, these debates do not have the same results as before, and nobody expects the losing side to "convert". Nevertheless, some Buddhist schools still encourage learning a lot of texts, logic, and debating techniques. For these reasons, many still view it as mostly a philosophy.

From the perspective of a scientist, Buddhism is a science of the mind. It developed thousands of successful techniques that anyone can learn to understand how their mind works, and, through a thorough training, achieve a repeatable result. This is not unlike what psychology does in the West (even though, of course, the basic assumptions are quite different!). Buddhism is mostly about empirical experience as a result of critical thinking and logical reasoning, put into practice. Since the focus is how to achieve that experience using tested, repeatable methods, it is akin to the scientific method used in the West to acquire knowledge. As such, it's a science.

And of course it can be seen as a way of life which includes all those aspects.

However, it's also none of them.

It's not a religion in the strict sense of the word: religion comes from the Latin word meaning "connecting again", and, in most religions, it means connecting back to something originally lost (e.g. a link to a deity, a link to the Universe, a link to the inner soul, whatever the religion preaches to be lost). In the highest Buddhist teachings, nothing really is lost; you're already a Buddha, you are just not able to recognise it due to what is called one's obscurations. What the Buddhist training accomplishes is a way to remove those obscuration. But there is nothing "gained" which was not there in the first place (how could that be otherwise). You're not really "linking back to your lost soul" or something like that; there is nothing there to "link back". So it cannot be a religion.

Words in Buddhism are just important as a prelude to practice. They're to be seen as instruction manuals or cooking recipes. Being a cook doesn't mean being able to read cooking books; it means having the experience to turn them into delightful food and eating it. Buddhism is pretty much about eating, and not about writing recipes. However, you need the recipes to remind you of what you're supposed to do when you're cooking a meal. Since the focus is not on the texts, the logic, the debating, the argumentation, but in what you do with all that and put into practice, it cannot be just a philosophy. Not putting the texts into practice is meaningless in Buddhism.

Science is acquisition of knowledge, and fitting theoretical models to the real world, using a vast array of methodologies; technology is applying science to solve concrete problems. Now Buddhism is little interested in acquiring knowledge, and ultimately, that acquisition of knowledge has just a purpose: enabling better practice. It's true that the empirical aspect of Buddhism is very important; it's even more important in Buddhism than in Western science! So, a scientist might be expected merely to acquire knowledge in a meaningful, repeatable, independently validated way. While Buddhism uses the same approach, the purpose is not to acquire knowledge by itself; knowledge is used to be put in practice; acquired knowledge without a practical purpose is also meaningless. So, strictly speaking, while Buddhism shows many aspects of a "science of the mind", in the sense that it produces methods for one's own investigation of what the mind is and how it works, the description of those methods are uninteresting unless they're put into practice and experienced. The focus is thus on the experience, not on the method or the accumulated knowledge. Science is less about the experience and more about the methods to accumulate knowledge, although, obviously, that knowledge is meant to be useful in some way.

Perhaps the issue about Buddhism being "a way of life" is harder to refute, since "way of life" is something very vague. If by "way of life" one means that there is a certain method, which, put into practice, achieves a result that benefits us and others, and all we do with our life is to constantly and tirelessly follow that method, then, well, we're probably quite close in defining what Buddhism is supposed to be about.

Kia Ora Sandra,


::) So what you are saying [in a nutshell] is  Buddhism= Awareness...No Thing more-No Thing less, which in this case "I"[when used purely as an analytic device/tool]  am in agreement :)

::) The mind can understand logic-but one can't use logic to understand the mind !

Metta Zenda :)

I see it as a way of life. I also see being a Christian as a way of life. To be meaningful, it has to guide how you live, not simply be what you believe. I quite often read Buddhist teachings even though I am a Christan. Love and caring for others well being is never a bad thing.

Quote from: Stephe on December 22, 2012, 05:08:06 PM
I see it as a way of life. I also see being a Christian as a way of life. To be meaningful, it has to guide how you live, not simply be what you believe. I quite often read Buddhist teachings even though I am a Christan. Love and caring for others well being is never a bad thing.

Kia Ora Stephe,

=AWARENESS :)

I hope you are enjoying life's flow...

Metta Zenda :)

Shalom,

To me Buddhism is a path leading to a disconnect with everything that makes humans and spiritual beings; Buddhism at it essence is an anti-spiritual philosophy that leads to nihilism

Quote from: peky on December 22, 2012, 06:28:06 PM
Shalom,

To me Buddhism is a path leading to a disconnect with everything that makes humans and spiritual beings; Buddhism at it essence is an anti-spiritual philosophy that leads to nihilism

Kia Ora Peky,

::) I see where you're coming from, there are many who have studied Buddhism but still have a fear of letting go and entering into the unknown (or as they say in Zen "passing through the 'gateless' gate") but all I can say is "One will never know-till they finally let go-and just go with the flow !"   8)


::) Form is Emptiness ...Emptiness is Form...When one understand this one will see what Gotama Siddhattha taught, had no-thing to do with nihilism...
However, understandably for many in the West, especially those who are unfamiliar with his teachings ( that is, continue to cling to the concept of a more permanent  'self'=a mini me that abides within  ;D) the 'thought' of there being no 'doer' behind the deed or 'thinker' behind the thought, can be very disconcerting...

Peky  "Our thoughts are all powerful-Our lives are but the expression of our thoughts-When we master our thoughts-We become master of our Destiny !" A daunting task for some, especially when 'thought' itself is the thinker  ;)

Happy Mindfulness

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: peky on December 22, 2012, 06:28:06 PM
To me Buddhism is a path leading to a disconnect with everything that makes humans and spiritual beings; Buddhism at it essence is an anti-spiritual philosophy that leads to nihilism

I'm afraid you've been reading anti-Buddhism propaganda... this is a common view shown on many pamphlets from religious organisations who somehow "fear" Buddhism.

Quoting a great master,

"Being an eternalist (i.e. believing that things perceived by our senses exist intrinsically) is being as stupid as a cow: cows simply cannot do more than that.
But being a nihilist is even more stupid"

To set matters right, Buddhist training allows us to appreciate how everything is inter-related; at its core is Interdependent Co-Arising, which refutes both eternalism and nihilism. But this is not a "philosophy"; it's something that anyone can experience by themselves, just observing carefully.

"Spiritual" in the Buddhist sense means just "mind training". Why one should train their minds to lead to nihilism is beyond any rational understanding.

Nevertheless, this what the anti-Buddhist pamphlets so often propagate...

Quote from: Stephe on December 22, 2012, 05:08:06 PM
I see it as a way of life. I also see being a Christian as a way of life. To be meaningful, it has to guide how you live, not simply be what you believe. I quite often read Buddhist teachings even though I am a Christan. Love and caring for others well being is never a bad thing.

You couldn't have put it better, Stephe! I agree :-)

I actually have rediscovered a lot of Christian teachings which gave me a lot of pleasure to read, once they're understood as essential instructions to love and care for others!

I experienced Buddha while in college from a book and life.   I understood that it was a way of experiencing life which freed one from being overly attached from ones ego and materialistic life.   One was not to live for ones desires, not to let material things and acquiring material things to control or be the center of your life,  not to become attached to your mental paradigm of the world.    That true happiness came from within and not from the world I lived in.   Life was to be enjoyed in a detached sort of way as you experienced it, but do not hang onto life let life flow.   Also that Buddha was just one of many enlightened ones.   

This lead me to Baha'u'llah (The Glory of God) and to the Baha'i Faith.   The Baha'i Faith stresses independent investigation of the truth and has no priests or ministers.

Each Baha'i community is administered by a committees of 9 adult Baha'i adults.    Many countries have National Assemblies composed of 9 adult Baha'is elected from their nation.   The Baha'i World Community is governed by the Universal House of Justice which is made up of 9 Baha'i adults chosen by all of the National Assemblies from Baha'is around the world.  No adult can serve on any more than one Assembly at a time.   

None of what I have written about Buddha is a reflection of Baha'i Teachings, however, Buddha is accepted by Baha'is as a Manifestation of God, as are Moses, Christ, Mohammad, Zoroaster, Abraham, and many others.   They manifested the teachings and spirit of God to the world. 

Beyond this I will leave it for you explore the Faith for yourself.   The American National Baha'i Center is in Chicago, Illinois and our world center is in Haifa, Israel on Mt. Carmel.    The Australian Baha'i Center is in Sydney.   The Canadian Baha'i Center is in the Toronto area.   There are Baha'i Centers in many other countries also.   

It's best to search the Baha'i Center for your country because while individual  Baha'is can think for themselves, they are not to represent their personal beliefs as being representative for the Baha'i Community as a whole.  The Baha'i Spiritual Assemblies, National Assemblies, and the Universal House of Justice speaks for the Baha'i Community as a whole.   

There are many individuals on line who claim that their personal point of view is the official Baha'i point of view and they deny the authority of the Spiritual Assemblies and the Universal House of Justice.    These individuals should not be trusted and many of them have developed cults based upon claiming spiritual authority for themselves which they do not have.

How the Baha'is deal with transgenders is a work in progress and is dealt with each individual's official interaction with the Baha'i Assemblies.   

Quote from: michelle on December 23, 2012, 09:07:42 PM
I experienced Buddha while in college from a book and life.   I understood that it was a way of experiencing life which freed one from being overly attached from ones ego and materialistic life.   One was not to live for ones desires, not to let material things and acquiring material things to control or be the center of your life,  not to become attached to your mental paradigm of the world.    That true happiness came from within and not from the world I lived in.   Life was to be enjoyed in a detached sort of way as you experienced it, but do not hang onto life let life flow.   Also that Buddha was just one of many enlightened ones.   

This lead me to Baha'u'llah (The Glory of God) and to the Baha'i Faith.   The Baha'i Faith stresses independent investigation of the truth and has no priests or ministers.

Each Baha'i community is administered by a committees of 9 adult Baha'i adults.    Many countries have National Assemblies composed of 9 adult Baha'is elected from their nation.   The Baha'i World Community is governed by the Universal House of Justice which is made up of 9 Baha'i adults chosen by all of the National Assemblies from Baha'is around the world.  No adult can serve on any more than one Assembly at a time.   

None of what I have written about Buddha is a reflection of Baha'i Teachings, however, is Buddha accepted by Baha'is as a Manifestation of God, as are Moses, Christ, Mohammad, Zoroaster, Abraham, and many others.   They manifested the teachings and spirit of God to the world. 

Beyond this I will leave it for you explore the Faith for yourself.   The American National Baha'i Center is in Chicago, Illinois and our world center is in Haifa, Israel on Mt. Carmel.    The Australian Baha'i Center is in Sydney.   The Canadian Baha'i Center is in the Toronto area.   There are Baha'i Centers in many other countries also.   

It's best to search the Baha'i Center for your country because while individual  Baha'is can think for themselves, they are not to represent their personal beliefs as being representative for the Baha'i Community as a whole.  The Baha'i Spiritual Assemblies, National Assemblies, and the Universal House of Justice speaks for the Baha'i Community as a whole.   

There are many individuals on line who claim that their personal point of view is the official Baha'i point of view and they deny the authority of the Spiritual Assemblies and the Universal House of Justice.    These individuals should not be trusted and many of them have developed cults based upon claiming spiritual authority for themselves which they do not have.

How the Baha'is deal with transgenders is a work in progress and is dealt with each individual's official interaction with the Baha'i Assemblies.   

Kia Ora Michelle,

It's true there are some religions who see the Buddha as a god figure [even some Buddhist sects I'm afraid ]...However "Thus I have heard" the Buddha was a human being who just so happened to spend time 'looking within' and eventually he 'woke up' from the dream that's known as Samsara=the cycle of birth and death ...And in doing so he saw.....................

" Whoever sees Dependant Origination sees the Dharma-Whoever sees the Dharma sees Dependant Origination!"


Anyhow, I'm glad that you have found your path in life ...I hope you have a safe journey ...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Sandra M. Lopes on December 23, 2012, 07:57:04 PM
I'm afraid you've been reading anti-Buddhism propaganda... this is a common view shown on many pamphlets from religious organisations who somehow "fear" Buddhism.

Quoting a great master,

"Being an eternalist (i.e. believing that things perceived by our senses exist intrinsically) is being as stupid as a cow: cows simply cannot do more than that.
But being a nihilist is even more stupid"

To set matters right, Buddhist training allows us to appreciate how everything is inter-related; at its core is Interdependent Co-Arising, which refutes both eternalism and nihilism. But this is not a "philosophy"; it's something that anyone can experience by themselves, just observing carefully.

"Spiritual" in the Buddhist sense means just "mind training". Why one should train their minds to lead to nihilism is beyond any rational understanding.

Nevertheless, this what the anti-Buddhist pamphlets so often propagate...

Opinions were requested, I expressed mine. Do respect mine.

Quote from: peky on December 24, 2012, 12:07:18 AM
Opinions were requested, I expressed mine. Do respect mine.

Kia Ora Peky Meri Kirihimete,

It's true, I did ask for personal opinions and yours is most appreciated....It's healthy to have a different take on things...

:eusa_think: Sandra was for the most part just pointed out a common trap that people who don't understand Buddhism tend to fall into, that is, those who have just lightly dabbled with it tend to do so with a 'conditioned'  Western mind set that can be pretty hard to shake, hence why they quite often jump to the conclusion it must be superstitious mumbo jumbo rubbish, where the Buddha just wanted people to give up on life and suffer.[put life into the too hard basket]...However this is definitely not the case...

The term renunciation in the Buddhist sense most broadly can be understood as a letting go of whatever binds us to ignorance and suffering. The Buddha taught that genuine renunciation requires thoroughly perceiving how we make ourselves unhappy by grasping and greediness. When we do, renunciation naturally follows, and it is a positive and liberating act, not a punishment.

:eusa_think: A wise Zen master once said :

"Great Faith and Great Doubt are two ends of a spiritual [or 'scientific]walking stick. We grip one end with the grasp given to us by our Great Determination. We poke into the underbrush in the dark on our spiritual/scientific journey. This act is real spiritual/scientific practice -- gripping the Faith end and poking ahead with the Doubt end of the stick. If we have no Faith, we have no Doubt. If we have no Determination, we never pick up the stick in the first place."

:eusa_think: I remember hearing Richard Dawkins say something which I found quite funny :

"We should all be open minded ! But not so open minded that our brains fall out !" ;D       

Thanks again for your input

Metta Zenda :)

Baha'is do not see Buddha, Christ, Mohammad, Baha'u'llah, Moses and the other Messengers of God as God figures.   The following is the definition of what Baha'is mean by Manifestation of God.   

http://bahaikipedia.org/Manifestation_of_God (http://bahaikipedia.org/Manifestation_of_God)

"Manifestation of God
The Bahá'í Faith refers to what are commonly called Prophets as Manifestations of God, or simply Manifestations who are directly linked with the concept of Progressive revelation. Not all the individuals who would be called prophets in other religions are known as Manifestations of God, some are called lesser prophets, who receive their revelations from the Manifestations of God.

Bahá'ís believe in a single, imperishable God, the creator of all things, including all the creatures and forces in the universe.[1] Though inaccessible directly, God is nevertheless seen as conscious of his creation, with a mind, will and purpose. Bahá'ís believe that God expresses this will at all times and in many ways, including through a series of divine messengers referred to as Manifestations of God or sometimes divine educators.[2] In expressing God's intent, these Manifestations are seen to establish religion in the world. Thus they are seen as an intermediary between God and humanity.[3]

The Manifestations of God are not seen as an incarnation of God, but they are also not seen as an ordinary mortal. Instead, the Bahá'í concept of the Manifestation of God emphasizes simultaneously the humanity of that intermediary and the divinity in the way they show forth the will, knowledge and attributes of God; thus they have both human and divine stations. Among other religions, this view most closely resembles the Christian view of Christ, as well as the Shi'a understanding of the prophets and Imams. The Manifestations of God act as a pure mirror (see below) that reflect the attributes of God onto this material world.[3]"

Quote from: michelle on December 24, 2012, 10:47:50 PM
Baha'is do not see Buddha, Christ, Mohammad, Baha'u'llah, Moses and the other Messengers of God as God figures.   The following is the definition of what Baha'is mean by Manifestation of God.   

http://bahaikipedia.org/Manifestation_of_God (http://bahaikipedia.org/Manifestation_of_God)

"Manifestation of God
The Bahá'í Faith refers to what are commonly called Prophets as Manifestations of God, or simply Manifestations who are directly linked with the concept of Progressive revelation. Not all the individuals who would be called prophets in other religions are known as Manifestations of God, some are called lesser prophets, who receive their revelations from the Manifestations of God.

Bahá'ís believe in a single, imperishable God, the creator of all things, including all the creatures and forces in the universe.[1] Though inaccessible directly, God is nevertheless seen as conscious of his creation, with a mind, will and purpose. Bahá'ís believe that God expresses this will at all times and in many ways, including through a series of divine messengers referred to as Manifestations of God or sometimes divine educators.[2] In expressing God's intent, these Manifestations are seen to establish religion in the world. Thus they are seen as an intermediary between God and humanity.[3]

The Manifestations of God are not seen as an incarnation of God, but they are also not seen as an ordinary mortal. Instead, the Bahá'í concept of the Manifestation of God emphasizes simultaneously the humanity of that intermediary and the divinity in the way they show forth the will, knowledge and attributes of God; thus they have both human and divine stations. Among other religions, this view most closely resembles the Christian view of Christ, as well as the Shi'a understanding of the prophets and Imams. The Manifestations of God act as a pure mirror (see below) that reflect the attributes of God onto this material world.[3]"

Kia Ora Michelle,

::) My mistake, so thanks for clearing that up for me...However to see the Buddha has a manifestation of god [or a godlike figure], does not really sit well with the Dharma, especially the teaching on anatta = no self -soul lessness...


Metta Zenda :)

Doesn't selflessness mean a physical lack of selflessness or does it mean a lack of a spiritual soul.   

I personally view it as your spiritual soul is detached from its physical identity and the physical world but the soul still has its own spiritual attributes and sense of existence separate from other spiritual beings which gives the soul its identity.   

Not letting your desires for things of the physical world determine your sense of self.   The person you see in the mirror is not you, the essence of your soul is.   

Your physical body is necessary in this world because it is a physical world.   But in the spiritual world your physical body is not necessary because it is a spiritual world.    In the spiritual world who knows what shape your soul or spiritual self would take.   

The Manifestation of God is a channel from God into this world from the World of God.   Each Manifestation has a personal soul and physical body with and individual personality.  But each Manifestation channels the Word of God and Holy Spirit into the world free of any selfish personal reasons and physical desires and free of any sense of earthly self interest.   The Manifestations seek not self importance but seek only to channel the Spirit, Word, and Power of God into the world.  God is totally unknowable.   What we can know and sense are different aspects of the attributes of God and we can let God influence our lives.   We can attempt to understand in a limited way the Word of God that the Manifestation reveals to us.   The Manifestation also brings into the world the spiritual laws and institutions in which those who recognize the Manifestation join together and form a community.   Today we are forming a world wide community and Baha'u'llah has brought the spiritual power, guidelines, and Institutions to form that community.   Every soul in existence has the equal right to be a part of that community as an exercise of each of our own free will.      But there are Spiritual Laws that govern the community which each of us as a free soul have to come to terms with within the guidelines of the Baha'i Institutions and in final course of things we have to abide by the Institutions decisions and live with the consequences.   Outside of being a member of  particular Baha'i Institutions no individual Baha'i has any individual power granted to them or influence over any other individual Baha'i.   But we all owe allegiance to the Institutions.  If I chose not to follow the recommendations of the Assemblies than I have to live with the consequences of not doing so. 

  I can't set up my own group of believers.   Mostly I will loose my voting rights and only be able to take part of Baha'i administrative functions that are for Baha'is only.    All Baha'is have parts to play in administering the Baha'i Community which are important for any Baha'i.   There are no priests or ministers.    So loosing the right to vote and go to Baha'i administrative meetings is very important for each individual Baha'i.   You are not shunned by other Baha'is if you loose your voting rights.   

This Baha'i kind of community is hard to understand and appreciate if you have grown up in a very structured dogmatic religious Faith  which has been administered by a very closed body of religious officials.   The individual members of the Congregational Church  have to vote to accept the Minister who will guide its community which then is administers by the Minister and the board of deacons.   The individual members can decide when it is time for the minister to move on down the road.   


But there are many World's of God which in our journey to God that we must transverse.   In this world we are just at the very beginning of our spiritual journey to God.    Our journey is guided on our spiritual development which makes it possible to sense the Presences of God in His Realms.

But please these are just my understanding and not an official point of view of the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith.    One of the tenants of the Baha'i Faith is independent investigation of the truth, but individual Baha'is are not infer to anyone that their personal point of view is the Official Point of View of the Baha'i Faith.   So what I am sharing are my own personal insights.   You have to read the Holy Writings and the Official Statements about this matter for yourself and decide just for yourself.    I cannot teach my point of view, but I can share my fallible insights and misconceptions.

As a transgendered female Baha'i who has basically lived outside the community since I have started my transformation, I have much to work out.    Most of my living outside of the Baha'i Community had to do with the break up of my marriage and the fact there were no other Baha'is in my immediate community at the time.   

I believe in my Faith,  but for better or for worse I have chosen to go it alone for my own personal reasons which has more to do with me worrying about what people will think, than what they do think.   My Baha'i friends are aware of my transitioning to my female identity from my contact with them on Facebook.   I have no negative reactions from them.   One of them mentioned that their child transitioned from female to male and that at some point in his transformation his Baha'i identity identified him as a male instead of female.

In time I will probably reconnect when I can do things for the right reasons and not just because I am trying to get the approval of others.    In my life my religious faith has been a place of safety for me at the expense of my spiritual growth because while I was an intellectual and free thinker I was hiding behind my rationalizations while my soul was stagnant.

  It's not that there was anything wrong with intellectualism, the problem is that that was all it was, was words.    Being brought up a Christian I was programmed to debate my Congregational and Methodist dogmas which tended to be "either right or wrong"  before the 1960's.  Later became the struggle over dogma became  "it depends on how you look at it" of cultural relativism. 

The 1960's was a time of intellectual and philosophical debate within many Christian Faiths as well as the Civil Rights, Antiwar, Woman's Rights, beginnings of Developmentally Disabled shut ins coming out into the public, and Druggie sexual Hippie Days.   I was involved in one way or another all of these.

All of this influenced my spiritual beliefs and my identification as a Buddhist before I joined the Baha'i Faith.

Quote from: michelle on January 01, 2013, 04:31:13 PM
Doesn't selflessness mean a physical lack of selflessness or does it mean a lack of a spiritual soul.   

I personally view it as your spiritual soul is detached from its physical identity and the physical world but the soul still has its own spiritual attributes and sense of existence separate from other spiritual beings which gives the soul its identity.   

Not letting your desires for things of the physical world determine your sense of self.   The person you see in the mirror is not you, the essence of your soul is.   

Your physical body is necessary in this world because it is a physical world.   But in the spiritual world your physical body is not necessary because it is a spiritual world.    In the spiritual world who knows what shape your soul or spiritual self would take.   

The Manifestation of God is a channel from God into this world from the World of God.   Each Manifestation has a personal soul and physical body with and individual personality.  But each Manifestation channels the Word of God and Holy Spirit into the world free of any selfish personal reasons and physical desires and free of any sense of earthly self interest.   The Manifestations seek not self importance but seek only to channel the Spirit, Word, and Power of God into the world.  God is totally unknowable.   What we can know and sense are different aspects of the attributes of God and we can let God influence our lives.   We can attempt to understand in a limited way the Word of God that the Manifestation reveals to us.   The Manifestation also brings into the world the spiritual laws and institutions in which those who recognize the Manifestation join together and form a community.   Today we are forming a world wide community and Baha'u'llah has brought the spiritual power, guidelines, and Institutions to form that community.   Every soul in existence has the equal right to be a part of that community as an exercise of each of our own free will.      But there are Spiritual Laws that govern the community which each of us as a free soul have to come to terms with within the guidelines of the Baha'i Institutions and in final course of things we have to abide by the Institutions decisions and live with the consequences.   Outside of being a member of  particular Baha'i Institutions no individual Baha'i has any individual power granted to them or influence over any other individual Baha'i.   But we all owe allegiance to the Institutions.  If I chose not to follow the recommendations of the Assemblies than I have to live with the consequences of not doing so. 

  I can't set up my own group of believers.   Mostly I will loose my voting rights and only be able to take part of Baha'i administrative functions that are for Baha'is only.    All Baha'is have parts to play in administering the Baha'i Community which are important for any Baha'i.   There are no priests or ministers.    So loosing the right to vote and go to Baha'i administrative meetings is very important for each individual Baha'i.   You are not shunned by other Baha'is if you loose your voting rights.   

This Baha'i kind of community is hard to understand and appreciate if you have grown up in a very structured dogmatic religious Faith  which has been administered by a very closed body of religious officials.   The individual members of the Congregational Church  have to vote to accept the Minister who will guide its community which then is administers by the Minister and the board of deacons.   The individual members can decide when it is time for the minister to move on down the road.   


But there are many World's of God which in our journey to God that we must transverse.   In this world we are just at the very beginning of our spiritual journey to God.    Our journey is guided on our spiritual development which makes it possible to sense the Presences of God in His Realms.

But please these are just my understanding and not an official point of view of the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith.    One of the tenants of the Baha'i Faith is independent investigation of the truth, but individual Baha'is are not infer to anyone that their personal point of view is the Official Point of View of the Baha'i Faith.   So what I am sharing are my own personal insights.   You have to read the Holy Writings and the Official Statements about this matter for yourself and decide just for yourself.    I cannot teach my point of view, but I can share my fallible insights and misconceptions.

As a transgendered female Baha'i who has basically lived outside the community since I have started my transformation, I have much to work out.    Most of my living outside of the Baha'i Community had to do with the break up of my marriage and the fact there were no other Baha'is in my immediate community at the time.   

I believe in my Faith,  but for better or for worse I have chosen to go it alone for my own personal reasons which has more to do with me worrying about what people will think, than what they do think.   My Baha'i friends are aware of my transitioning to my female identity from my contact with them on Facebook.   I have no negative reactions from them.   One of them mentioned that their child transitioned from female to male and that at some point in his transformation his Baha'i identity identified him as a male instead of female.

In time I will probably reconnect when I can do things for the right reasons and not just because I am trying to get the approval of others.    In my life my religious faith has been a place of safety for me at the expense of my spiritual growth because while I was an intellectual and free thinker I was hiding behind my rationalizations while my soul was stagnant.

  It's not that there was anything wrong with intellectualism, the problem is that that was all it was, was words.    Being brought up a Christian I was programmed to debate my Congregational and Methodist dogmas which tended to be "either right or wrong"  before the 1960's.  Later became the struggle over dogma became  "it depends on how you look at it" of cultural relativism. 

The 1960's was a time of intellectual and philosophical debate within many Christian Faiths as well as the Civil Rights, Antiwar, Woman's Rights, beginnings of Developmentally Disabled shut ins coming out into the public, and Druggie sexual Hippie Days.   I was involved in one way or another all of these.

All of this influenced my spiritual beliefs and my identification as a Buddhist before I joined the Baha'i Faith.

Kia Ora Michelle,

::) Soul can mean different things to different people but what Buddhists believe, is there is an absence of a 'permanent' unchanging ego or 'soul'...

"Buddhism does not totally deny the existence of a personality in an empirical sense. It only attempts to show that it does not exist in an ultimate sense. The Buddhist philosophical term for an individual is, a flux or a continuity. It includes the mental and physical elements ie, the five aggregates=Form-Consciousness-Sensation-Perception-Mental Formation. The karmic force of each individual binds the elements together. This uninterrupted flux or continuity of psycho-physical phenomenon, which is conditioned by karma, and not limited only to the present life- but having its source in the beginningless past and its continuation in the future - is the Buddhist substitute for the permanent ego or the immortal soul of other religions !"

Your truth as you see it, is your personal truth,[ such is mine] I hope it brings you true contentment as does mine!

Metta Zenda :)

Or, to put it differently, when Buddhists use the expression "selflessness" (at least in the West; Buddhist-inspired countries have much more preciser words), they don't deny that the self exists. They don't deny that it doesn't exist, either. What they deny is that the self exists by itself, i.e. that it has some "eternal" property which is uncreated. This is confirmed empirically through experience, not a philosophical point to be accepted or debated, although knowing what to expect and what method to apply to validate that experience empirically is part of the (many) Buddhist methods and techniques.

As for the Buddha being an "emanation" of God... well, to be honest, Siddharta wouldn't really get angry at that explanation :) He would just say something like "Whatever is helpful to you to keep a connection with me is fine. Sooner or later, if you have a connection, you'll be able to learn my methods and follow them". This is the reason why so many Buddhist schools explain Siddharta differently. For many Theravada schools, he was a "special being", and while he taught a way to completely erradicate suffering, you cannot "become" like Siddharta. For many Mahayana schools, by contrast, Siddharta was just a normal human, and by applying his methods and techniques, you can reach precisely the same state of enlightenment as Siddharta did — it just takes time (and many rebirths!). For many Vajrayana schools, the special technique that Siddharta has applied to attain enlightenment in just a single lifetime is freely available to all of us — it's just a rather dangerous path to follow, because it has lots of pitfalls. So which one is right, which one is wrong? The answer is: all are right. The important thing is that you start with a connection, which then leads to be willing to learn any of the methods that Siddharta taught. If that connection requires one to "believe" that Siddharta is the emanation of a god, then, fine, that's ok, so long as it means that thanks to this "belief" you're now willing to engage in the same path that Siddharta followed, because you're convinced that it's the only way to get rid of suffering. In fact, a lot of so-called Pure Land Buddhism schools have a completely theistic approach — their followers are aware that they need to believe in a "god" of some sort, so they view Siddharta (and other Buddhas) just as "gods" from which they request blessings, because they have "faith" that somehow this will put them into the right path to end suffering. And, in fact, they're quite right — sooner or later, no matter what idea one has of Siddharta, as long as there is a connection forged with him, one will be able to find a method that one is able to apply, and this will ultimately lead to the same state as Siddharta attained. It's really just a question of time.

An interesting aspect is that a "connection" doesn't automatically mean a "good" connection — in fact, even a "bad" connection is excellent! So someone saying, "all Buddhists are stupid and Siddharta was an idiot" is going to advance much faster than someone who never hear the word "Buddha". Sooner or later, even the rejection of the Buddha will leave a mental imprint, and in subsequent lives, that mental imprint will work out towards one's advantage in being willing to learn a bit more.

And if you want to discard any possibility of rebirth... well, it works in one's lifetime as well. For some unknown reason, I sort of came across some writings of the Dalai Lama in my teens, and they didn't make any sense at all. When I tried to find out more about Buddhism, I just came across the many anti-Buddhist pamphlets written by Christians, so I shrugged them off as some sort of nihilism, even though I couldn't really pinpoint that label on the Dalai Lama — he certainly didn't behave as the nihilists I knew! But I said, "it's not for me", and never thought about it again.

It was only more than a decade afterwards that, by chance (or perhaps not!), a Buddhist centre opened just behind my street. At the beginning, we just said "hi" to our new neighbours, exchanged some pleasantries, and even gave them some Christmas gifts, as we tend to do to the neighbours. But there was no "impulse" to get mixed in their hocus-pocus, as we thought about it at the time. It was just when my wife was slowly recovering from a very serious panic attack that her therapist told her that meditation might be helpful. Since the Buddhist centre behind us gave free meditation classes, we thought it was worth a try. At that point, I was not interested in meditation at all (a few years before that, I had tried some sort of esoteric Christian meditation and it had absolutely no effect), much less in "Eastern" things, but obviously I felt that anything that would encourage my wife to get better was worth the effort. Besides, we were by then sort of familiar with the neighbours, and pretty much confident that they weren't sacrificing goats in their backyard or running around naked under the moonlight :) but, instead, that they were easy-going people with a keen sense of humour.

So one might ask... what made us go to that meditation class? Was it merely chance? No... because there are hundreds of neighbours in our place, and almost none of them ever showed up on a class, even though all, without exception, have established some sort of friendship with the meditation teacher and his wife. I'm pretty sure that what made me stay was the negative connection I had with Buddhism in my youth — thinking it was some sort of nihilism — and, as such, I was interested in confronting this teacher with "my" views and "my" opinion of Buddhism, and see what he would answer. So there was a mental connection established by then, even if it was a negative one. I never thought in my life that I would find a Buddhist teacher in my country — there are really very few around — but when I found one, I was eager to debate with him "my" views. I'm pretty sure that if I had never read anything about Buddhism — even those anti-Buddhist pamphlets! — I would never had developed any interest in Buddhism at all, just like all my neighbours, who are completely indifferent to Buddhism (but now they have established a connection, too! So it will bear fruit sometime!).

To recap... it's fine to imagine Siddharta as some kind of manifestation of a God, or someone with super-powers, or an angel, or whatever you wish — even thinking of Siddharta as a scammer and a trickster! — if that somehow helps to make a connection which will, sooner or later, bear fruit: one suddenly becomes interested in confronting one's opinion about Buddhism with someone of Siddharta's lineage, and that's the start of following the path that Siddharta has followed :)

That's the reason why Buddhists will create statues, temples, and similar representations of the Buddha. Not as a sign of "veneration", but in the hope that someone seeing those things start asking questions, and, by doing so, come in touch with a qualified teacher. And that's why we write in forums, lol — with luck, who knows, someone might be reading right now these very words and ask, "what are Zenda and Sandra babbling about? Aren't they just inventing all these stupid things? Maybe I should find a real Buddhist teacher and get some real answers!"

If that happens to any of you, I would definitely rejoice!