Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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XD T-that's...an interesting thought.  I personally wouldn't get prosecuted for indecent exposure just to throw cissy standards out of the loop, though. XD

(Edit: Wrong word correction)

I think there was some incident on --- was it Daytona Beach. Whole lot of girls got taken to police --- oh, oh, actually pre-ops the lot, now what? Was not an offence then or was it?

No idea what happened next though other big laugh.
No issue in Europe that. Topless, stock standard for GGs and all else.

What would George Bush have said? Can anyone tell?
Axelle

Thats actually a really good idea lol!

the problem is, if you do that, they will probably just say "oh, well if you want the legal rights of a male, you've lost them from your poor decisions." commoners just aren't smart enough to see gender in the full dimensional view. they believe you're only born to be male/female, and you're expected to fit into society as one. basically it's "our fault." i don't think it would be too effective, and it's just against my morals. i would rather be accepted for who i am in a way that reflects my character.

Omg, now I wanna be in a political rally with a crowd of topless mtf's fighting for the right for pre-ops to be their designated gender legally. It would be awkward........ but fun! ;D

Personally, I would rather avoid campaigning for them to change one discriminatory law so they can enforce another.

Not an issue in Australia. Many woman are topless at the beach. I just wish some of them weren't :embarrassed:. It's like some woman really shouldn't wear a mini, or possibly worse, leggings and a short top.

Cindy

I walk around my apt. topless with just a pair of undies during the hot summer months, but I'm not sure that taking the girls full public would be such a good idea where I live  :police:  ::)  :police:

I love your idea though  ;D

Emigrate?  A friend's daughter spent time in Sweden and was so  embarrassed that she was the only one on the beach with her top on, that she had to strip off!

Police are largely morons, they will invent crimes to arrest you for if their isn't any violation.

Hah, my tired mind misread that as "Police are largely mormons..." :).

Canada sounds like a great place for fans of prominent nipples, then, given the weather :).

Even if you could, why would you want to? I would think that would attract a lot of unwanted and just gross attention.

I recall a case many years ago in the Austin area that dealt with women being topless and the basic tenor of the court's holding was that chests were chests.  Despite the ruling, about the only place one would see topless activity is at Hippie Hollow, and not nearly as much there now as many years ago due to a change in demographics...

Under Texas law, it would not qualify as an offense under 21.08 (Indecent Exposure) or even 21.07 (Public Lewdness).  It also does not meet the criteria for being charged under 42.01 (Disorderly Conduct). 

That being said, I have no desire to go around topless and I damned sure would not be doing so to assert any claimed legal right that was the alleged province of men...

Quote from: pretty on June 01, 2011, 09:08:39 AM
Even if you could, why would you want to? I would think that would attract a lot of unwanted and just gross attention.

I live in a seaside town with a beach. We don't get many international tourists, apart from French people, but it is a favourite of British people, especially from Northern England.

There is a sectoin of beach set aside for nudists. It isn't fenced or indicated in any way, but everyone knows what to expect there. Mostly older people really.

You don't see a lot of topless women, to be honest.

A few years ago, I spoke to a woman who said she took off her swimsuit bra, mainly to let the air get at her skin and because the elastic was pressing her a bit. She said that when she got up to run after one of her kids, when fooling around, her breasts kinda lashed around and hurt. So she put the bra back on.

I think it would work if you did it in the right venue. Just be sure all your MTF in such a protest are indeed all 'legaly' men. Nothing like discomfort of society too get things moving along.

However, you wouldn't get me topless in public.

Interesting question. Just pictured it, MtF transsexual goes to a regular ol' public beach, no top on, gets plenty of stares, some in repulse (mostly women especially those with husbands or boyfriends with them or children), others jaws dropping from the luscious C cup boobies bouncing around freely (men, naturally), she get's stopped by police, explains to them that she is a man, shows 'em I.D. with 'M' still on it to prove that she has the right to go topless like any other man. What can they say to that, "err...ah...well..." nearly speechless, but actually thinking, "damn, those are the best looking man-boobs I've ever seen!"  :laugh:

They could probably charge you with distracting drivers ;D.

"disturbing the peace" "disrupting the public" "child endangerment"
You would most likely get charged with any number of blanket laws that are purposefully vague. the real question is... how good is your lawyer.

An incident like that happened in Minneapolis several years ago. Initially she was charged with indecent exposure. Then they found out her gender status and changed it to creating a public disturbance.

very interesting showing M on id and sporting a nice set of boobs bouncing around on his chest on the beach. 

If I went topless on the beach, I'd be charged with "Obstruction of the tide waiting to come in." :P

Be sure to check your "E" medication safety advisory's.  Mine clearly says on BOTH the estrogen and the spironolactone the "Avoid prolonged exposure to the sun".  I am still recovering from a sunburn I got in less than 20 minutes here in our nice California sunshine. My shirt neckline did expose the tops of my new pair of chest decorations, and, "pass the barbecue sauce please"  "I'm miles beyond the sunscreen!"

Ouch! Worth knowing.

Quote from: Rabbit on June 01, 2011, 11:16:53 PM
Couldn't they use "disturbing the peace" and "disrupting the public" to control anyone then? Someone who was too fat? Or someone who was too ugly? Or someone who was black in a white part of town?

The thing about discriminatory treatment... is it tends to continue until the group stands up for itself.

of course, and they do.  those are used mostly for cops to cover their asses.  maybe not for being fat or ugly, but definitely used if you're the wrong skin color.

Um...
next month I'll be bottom "converted" also.
BUT... it be for a VERY long time before my legal German documentation be chanced.
Need to fly to Germany, see one judge and 2 attorneys (in Berlin only!).
Get appointment and pay for the lot, including airfare, accommodation and legal council.
You go figure $$$!

Since on "Permanent Residence" status (in SA) local ID doc will also not be changed.
Because of German birth certificate is not changed...

So I be OK running about like "man" top (AND bottom)!
And all legal...
Pretty strange but I guess true.
Axelle
PS: not that I like it but so it is.

In NYC its legal to go topless any day of the year but most wait for pride marches

I may be weird, but I think it's exactly as indecent for men to go around topless as it is for women. That being said, men don't care about being indecent in general; their sense of decency, their pudic character, is weaker than women's in average. And our societies having been constructed by men and currently adjusting for women and not the contrary, men's standards are the norm unless stated otherwise. I'm not overly frustrated by this fact, but it's how it is.

It is "normal" for a man to remove his shirt when swimming; just "acceptable" not to. And it is "normal" for a woman not to remove her shirt while swimming; just "acceptable" not to. Though as being "less pudic than the norm" is naturally more acceptable than being "more pudic than the norm", it's kind of worse for women.

Don't people who are attracted to men find a topless man just as attractive as a woman if they were attracted to her?

I haven't got anything to show off!

Quote from: A on June 05, 2011, 12:16:49 PM
Don't people who are attracted to men find a topless man just as attractive as a woman if they were attracted to her?

Yes, and it's a damn nuisance in summer. But it's all part of the historic crap about women being men's property, I suspect, so it's alright for a man to show off his manliness to attract many mates, but not for a woman to do the same (she immediately gets called all kinds of dodgy names).

I hate when men in the swimming pool have bigger breasts than me and they are topless. I have seen some pretty big man boobs at the Y.

And yes a topless man is just as exciting to me as a topless woman....

Yeah but no. I think women "can't" remove a shirt because they didn't want to in the first place. It kind of became the norm. Just like men can't have long hair and have a "professionally okay" look for an hotel; it's because they didn't want to have long hair in the first place.

It's not always fair, but we mustn't think it's a planned evil either. I think women (partly) brought upon themselves, with their more reserved attitude (in average), their inferior status. OF COURSE, society exaggerated these traits. It exaggerates everything. But I think the state of things is not "good", but is "normal". Just like it's normal that there are criminals. It can and must be made better, but must not be called an evil scheme.

Quote from: M2MtF2FtM on June 05, 2011, 07:25:32 AM
In NYC its legal to go topless any day of the year but most wait for pride marches

i heard that before on the tyra banks show. a bunch of women got topless photos done in the city. it was embracing women of all sizes. that type of thing. some of them were grocery shopping.

Quote from: cynthialee on June 05, 2011, 01:24:10 PM
I hate when men in the swimming pool have bigger breasts than me and they are topless. I have seen some pretty big man boobs at the Y.

And yes a topless man is just as exciting to me as a topless woman....

it's quite distinguishable of a mans chest and a woman's. even then, i think it doesn't completely have to do with sexual reasons, but cultural and social reasons as well. i still get turned on by muscular men with little fat on them going shirtless. guys will still get turned on by women showing their cleavages and wearing those really short skirts. people say that a mans chest is not sexually exciting, but i disagree.

Quote from: CindyJames on June 01, 2011, 03:48:48 AM
Not an issue in Australia. Many woman are topless at the beach. I just wish some of them weren't :embarrassed:. It's like some woman really shouldn't wear a mini, or possibly worse, leggings and a short top.

Cindy

Amen sister OMG!!!!!!!

Long hair on men comes and goes every century or so - it's all so contingent. Showing a lot of skin in western culture is a very new phenomenon, relatively speaking, less than a century for sure. I find it a little bizarre how women go around these days with the tiniest of shorts on, but they keep their top covered up more. And men are wearing thise bizarre jeans that are to disguise the fact that they have buttocks (compared to 70's jeans, anyway). It all just feels like one big rolling sexo-cultural experiment, mostly played out by immature people with the blessing of the clothing manufacturers :). Remember when "stonewash" suddenly happened? It was because indigo suddenly got more expensive, and the fashion industry immediately invented a fashion that used less dye.

When I've been to places where nudity is more normal on beaches, it only takes me about half a day to stop noticing everyone's nakedness. It's all so contingent.

Quote from: Padma on June 05, 2011, 04:03:08 PM
Long hair on men comes and goes every century or so - it's all so contingent. Showing a lot of skin in western culture is a very new phenomenon, relatively speaking, less than a century for sure. I find it a little bizarre how women go around these days with the tiniest of shorts on, but they keep their top covered up more. And men are wearing thise bizarre jeans that are to disguise the fact that they have buttocks (compared to 70's jeans, anyway). It all just feels like one big rolling sexo-cultural experiment, mostly played out by immature people with the blessing of the clothing manufacturers :). Remember when "stonewash" suddenly happened? It was because indigo suddenly got more expensive, and the fashion industry immediately invented a fashion that used less dye.

When I've been to places where nudity is more normal on beaches, it only takes me about half a day to stop noticing everyone's nakedness. It's all so contingent.

when you think about it, some of the clothes women wear in the western culture cover even less of their body than what a man would wear. swimwear, crop tops, spaghetti strap,  and high cut skirts/shorts. some of the teeny bikinis they make for women now, i wonder what the point is. it covers so little, you just might as well be naked.


(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Freaders%2F2009%2F06%2F13%2Fgirlwithredfloweredbikini_1.jpg&hash=dd6e3934a9a717ace678734f85d2f19f32b661f2)

That one's not that bad, pretty much a standard bikini. There's some that actually designed to be just big enough to not show the areola and the vagina lips and nothing else.

it isn't a bad one, but just the shapes of the breast paddings and the thin straps make it cover very little. the bottom is similar. it's just something i wouldn't be comfortable wearing. maybe really thin girls could do it. i would stick with a one piece.

Quote from: SpaceyGirl on June 05, 2011, 07:51:17 PM
when you think about it, some of the clothes women wear in the western culture cover even less of their body than what a man would wear. swimwear, crop tops, spaghetti strap,  and high cut skirts/shorts. some of the teeny bikinis they make for women now, i wonder what the point is. it covers so little, you just might as well be naked.

I expect the point of this is exactly titillation - the art of almost showing something, which we're socially programmed to find more erotic than basic nudity. It's interesting (and I'm not sure what to make of this) that tight swimming trunks on men have become associated with being gay, for example.

I actually just bought a bikini, but I plan to wear only the top with my jeans and maybe a cute hat and earrings... Oh and I have some matching sandles :laugh: :laugh:

I've still got the bikini lines from when I got sunburned earlier this year. looks cute ::)

Cindy

Quote from: Keroppi on June 05, 2011, 08:47:35 PM
That one's not that bad, pretty much a standard bikini. There's some that actually designed to be just big enough to not show the areola and the vagina lips and nothing else.

concur...that one WAS pretty moderate compared to a lot of what is sold off-the-rack. 

That model COULD stand a cheeseburger or three though...

I've noticed that most of the men who go topless shouldn't!  >:-)

Z

I really would love to stage something in texas since my chromosomes are the only thing that matters there.

Quote from: missjanealice on June 06, 2011, 04:16:15 PM
I really would love to stage something in texas since my chromosomes are the only thing that matters there.

techically, that is only in the jurisdiction of the 4th Court of Appeals and, at the moment, the 329th Judicial District of Wharton County.  Everywhere else, for marital purposes, it would be up for grabs.  Of course, litigation works best when the proper arguments are advanced.

As to staging something, there have long been rulings that a breast is a breast is a breast...there are no overt violations of the Texas Penal Code that appear to preclude women being topless.  There COULD be some city ordinances though...