Susan's Place Transgender Resources

 
Kia Ora  Folks,

  ::) There's no right or wrong answers folks... They can be witty, philosophical [personal philosophies], spiritual and or religious based...or whatever...

In the past I've neglected to add when opening an "open topic" that it is open to "all" "including our androgyn cousins" whom I've had the honour to meet recently...In the past I've normally just added M2Fs &F2Ms and that was it....So my apologies .

::) For me the purpose of life [once ones basic needs are taken care of, such as food, clean drinking water, shelter] is as the "Dalai Lama" so elegantly puts it "The pursuit of happiness !" Happiness as in finding true contentment  :icon_neutral: in an ever changing world/environment...Which for me "personally" is practicing "altruism"...There always a feeling of contentment when I've helped another sentient being unconditionally...  :icon_bunch:

::) Well that's my take... What's yours if any ? And do you "actually" make an effort to fulfil what "you" believe is life's purpose ?

PS Please no "BIG WORDS" folks ! Keep it "simple" and in layman's terms, that's how my mind works...


Happy Mindfulness......

Metta Zenda :) 

Ditto on the alturism. It has kept me very poor though because i keep giving away all i own to hear more clearly from above. But alas i know above will take care of my needs. I have learned to not want anything but to be loved by humans which until this point in my life has aluded me. So i look to above for that love and i have faith that there will be a greater happiness and love come the next world.  :angel:

love G-d, your children and friends; and battle for truth, justice, and American way!

Kate D

Self preservation and acting by the nature of your mind, simply: Never to betray oneself, never to destroy oneself. ^^

For me, life's purpose is simply to experience. The good, the bad, everything in-between. To walk all roads and learn from the journeys. To what end is... complicated, but I don't believe it's for the attainment of anything on a personal level. More like... hmm... a continuation.

Apart from the fun of messing with peoples heads by asking questions like that? 
Apart from advancing the spiritual welbeing of the species, and trying to leave the world a better place than when I arrived, buggered if I know.  If it's a journey I'll let you know when I get there, fun part of the trip at the moment.
Kaz.

The purpose of life is to live it, to taste experience to the utmost, to reach out eagerly and without fear for newer and richer experience.
        Eleanor Roosevelt  (1884 - 1962)


As for me, I don't think everything has, or has to have, a purpose, or a reason.  Somethings just are.  It is what it is.

Quote from: justmeinoz on June 06, 2011, 11:09:51 PM
Apart from the fun of messing with peoples heads by asking questions like that? 
Apart from advancing the spiritual welbeing of the species, and trying to leave the world a better place than when I arrived, buggered if I know.  If it's a journey I'll let you know when I get there, fun part of the trip at the moment.
Kaz.

Kia Ora Kaz,

::) Oh I forgot to add "mind messer" to the list of my life's purposes-thanks for reminding me  ;)  ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Ultimately, to learn.  How you achieve that will determine how well you fulfilled your purpose.  And it there is a place "out there" that we came from and will return to, I'm betting our purpose here was established by us prior to our arrival.

IMPO, there is no life's purpose.  No mystery of "why I am here?"  We are simple born and live.  Survival is the only thing, we are required to do.  But for the period between Birth and death is entirely up to you.  Life's purpose is what YOU make of it.

I am sworn not to divulge the answers to the eternal test. :)


8)


Zenda,
Why did you put so many words in quotes? Ussually that is reserved for when a person is mocking the situation or word meaning and implying the opposite but this does not seem to be the situation. So I am somewhat confussed to the meaning of said punctuation in this case.

Quote from: Laura91 on June 07, 2011, 12:13:36 PM
Exactly. You are born, you live, you die. That is all there is to it.

Good god that's so depressing  ::)
My take on lifes purpose is to be good to one another, to be at peace with yourself & to have an awseome collection of gorgeous shoes  :P

i believe we are all connected to the spiritual realm, and the land of living. when we live, we learn, grow, and develop our own moral character. when we die, our spirit is sent to the spiritual realm. our spirit is essentially just our sense of being, our sense of consciousness. different from the land of living, our spirit sees no binary. our spirit makes no judgement of good/evil, joy/sorrow, me/you, or even male/female.

Quote from: cynthialee on June 07, 2011, 09:30:37 AM
I am sworn not to divulge the answers to the eternal test. :)


8)


Zenda,
Why did you put so many words in quotes? Ussually that is reserved for when a person is mocking the situation or word meaning and implying the opposite but this does not seem to be the situation. So I am somewhat confussed to the meaning of said punctuation in this case.

Kia Ora Cynthia,

Fair "question"

English is my second language "Cockney" being my first, I was never really good at English & "grammar" at school...In fact the English teacher gave up on the entire class that he was meant to be teaching, with statements like " You're never going to need to use correct English, so I can't be bothered teaching you!"...

I'm sorry if at times what I write is somewhat "confusing"...I guess "grammatically" it's just a bad habit I've picked up...My spelling's somewhat atrocious too...Thank "god" for the spell check!  ;D

::) Keeping on "topic"... Perhaps it's just another one of my life's "hidden" purposes-to help to "confuse" even more, those who are already "confused"... ;)  ;D

::) However, this topic is not about my or anybody else's faults and flaws[of which I have many]...But on a serious note thank you for highlighting the possible confusion that could arise in some people's minds when trying to interpret my posts...

I hope the above answers your question...

::) And what's your life's "purpose" BTW Cynthia ? Do you think it's just a test ?



Thanks BTW to those who have already expressed what they feel is [or isn't] their life's purpose...It's important at times to actually "think" about these things .         

Metta Zenda :)

Yes I believe that this life is a test for most of the folks here.
Those not being tested are either members of the cosmic staff for this soul school, or they are those who are just auditing the class for a refresher course if you will.

Kia Ora

::) Thanks for all your interesting experiences so far...

However  :eusa_hand: [ and yes there's always a "but"  ;) ] isn't finding some form of "happiness/contentment" [in the holistic sense] the goal of all "living" things? 

For an example why does/did one desire to "transition" ?

A plant or a tree for another example has basic/simple needs such as good soil, plenty of sunshine, rain etc, in order to fulfil it's purpose in life, and when they achieve this, it can also be seen as a form of "contentment"...[the purpose of life is the "pursuit" of happiness/contentment ]

What's the purpose of a tree/plant's roots and leaves ?

::) Remember these are just questions to ponder[for those who wish/choose to ponder]-it's not about me, I'm just the messenger/thought, there's no thinker behind the questions...only the "thought" ! .

Happy Mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :) 

Enlightenment is like an Easter Egg- when you open it there is nothing in there, but without the nothing there would be no Easter Egg.

Without the chocolate there would be no Egg either.

To say  that the same amount of chocolate would taste the same shows you have not understood the paradox.

Karen, who definitely loves messing with people's heads ( but in the nicest possible way).

Quote from: justmeinoz on June 07, 2011, 08:24:24 PM

Kia Ora Karen,

::) Ah at last a woman of my own heart...

Enlightenment is like an Easter Egg- when you open it there is nothing in there, but without the nothing there would be no Easter Egg. =Form is Emptiness

Without the chocolate there would be no Egg either. =Emptiness is Form=Dependant arising=The Universal law of "Cause & Effect"

To say  that the same amount of chocolate would taste the same shows you have not understood the paradox. =What paradox ? A paradox is only a paradox to the closed mind-that actually likes the taste of chocolate... ;) :laugh:

Karen, who definitely loves messing with people's heads ( but in the nicest possible way). And so does Zenda  :laugh:  ;)

Or as Takuan Zenji would have said "Chocolate is!"

Quote from: justmeinoz on June 08, 2011, 12:08:09 AM
Or as Takuan Zenji would have said "Chocolate is!"  ::) and after it's eaten ???

Quote from: kate durcal on June 06, 2011, 06:48:08 PM
love G-d, your children and friends; and battle for truth, justice, and American way!

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate

::) Is that the "first Nation's" American way? ::)  ;)

Metta Zenda :)

After the chocolate is found and eaten, Life's purpose...
...life's...purpose...
...

It's finding more chocolate!  There! ^^
(I am enlightened by Justmeinoz)

Kia Ora

::) I'd like to add another two "sense" worth...

When it comes to this whole "purpose of life" thingy....

::) It's like this...If you can make sense out of "nonsense" you'll have the answer...  :icon_geekdance:  :icon_lalala:

But in a "sense"[excuse the pun] the world in which we live is actually one of "non-sense"...This might all sound somewhat confusing[a load of nonsense so to speak] and no doubt some might be thinking "what's this all got to do with life's purpose ?"
When in fact it as everything to do with life's purpose...

Think about it...

At times our senses tell us there's something more to life, but every time one tries to grasp it, one can't quite put ones finger on it, hence the "Non-Sense" I've been rattling on about...

Life equals "Non-Sense" !

One is continually making it's purpose up as one goes along [it's called "going with the flow"] and when it comes to one's long term goal well this is left to the individual's discretion...For example my "fixed" long term goal is to pursue "Happiness/Contentment"  and because I'm aware of the fact that other living things also want happiness in their lives, I look for ways to create more happiness for others along the way, and if this is not possible then I do my best not to hinder their personal pursuit...

So now do you get it?

If not, then I'll leave you all to figure it out in your own sweet time...Which I guess is the only fool proof way one will come to understand life's purpose...

Know thy "self" = know life's purpose for to know thy self is to know all life...

And most importantly DON"T TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY !  :eusa_doh:

::) But alas I could be wrong.......

That is, all that I've been rattling on about could be a load of "NON-SENSE" !

Happy Mindfulness...

Metta Zenda :)

I believe the purpose of life is to experience the great balance between the infinite and the finite. I arrived at this once after much thought and meditation on the subject. The most obviously finite thing in life is life itself, though I believe that this life is only one of many, potentially infinite even. Because the Beyond is infinite, we experience the opposite of infinite everything during life, in which everything is finite.

There are other balances to be experienced too of course, such as happiness/sadness, pain/pleasure, stress/peace, and even those really are probably simplifications. Some things can only be learned from loss, and loss is one thing that is impossible in the higher plane because everything is infinite there. That is why loss is a constant part of life, but there are gains too. A gain feels alot different if you started with nothing and had to fight hard for it than if it was handed to you and you can have another whenever you want.

I don't think it has a purpose, though it is the biggest source of opportunity there is and so it would be a shame to waste those opportunities.

Quote from: Zenda on June 10, 2011, 08:10:24 PM
For example my "fixed" long term goal is to pursue "Happiness/Contentment" 

Funny you say that, because I am writing a satirical novel, in which the main moral purpose is to remind people that happiness is an abstract noun, and so cannot be pursued but only perceived.

Happiness is not a warm dog, a warm gun, a worn pun - it's abstract. It cannot be pursued, hunted like a rabbit, trapped or created - it can only be seen and those who pursue will be disappointed, but those who learn to refine their sensibilities to see happiness and moments of happiness are more likely to experience it.

Well, firstly LIVE IS.

Next, live is to live it.

Next life will want to survive. Since we live, we will want to survive.
All else follows from that, including love your neighbour as you love yourself, etc. (or hate your neighbour as you hate yourself? Take your pick)

Nobody said only fish on a Friday, and all these other dogmas if they do not support live in the current time, and for oneself in person.

Note: If you can ONLY get fish on  a Friday --- then go eat it, of course!

Life essentially just requires the "livee" to live, and as best as circumstances allow.

Axelle

Quote from: Pica Pica on July 20, 2011, 12:30:34 AM
Funny you say that, because I am writing a satirical novel, in which the main moral purpose is to remind people that happiness is an abstract noun, and so cannot be pursued but only perceived.

Happiness id not a warm dog, a warm gun, a worn pun - it's abstract. It cannot be pursued, hunted like a rabbit, trapped or created - it can only be seen and those who pursue will be disappointed, but those who learn to refine their sensibilities to see happiness and moments of happiness are more likely to experience it.

Kia Ora Pica,

"Happiness is "just" a state of mind !" ... And "free" to a good home...

Metta Zenda :)

With this continual shift in wealth going to fewer and fewer people I decided to take a look at the people society deems very successful, the ones who are rich, and use their lives to establish what we cherish most as being life's purpose:

To become wealthy and powerful.  Then no one can mess with you but you can always mess with them.

Quote from: Zenda on June 08, 2011, 12:31:35 AM
Kia Ora Kate

::) Is that the "first Nation's" American way? ::)  ;)

Metta Zenda :)

I do not know what 'first nation's are?"

My quote was stolen from superman "Truth, Justice and The American Way," by me, a superwoman :)

Kate D

Quote from: kate durcal on July 20, 2011, 01:23:28 PM
I do not know what 'first nation's are?"

My quote was stolen from superman "Truth, Justice and The American Way," by me, a superwoman :)

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

::) "First Nation People" I meant what is commonly believed to be the indigenous Americans...Superman was a bloody alien[in the literal sense] who didn't even hold a green card  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Kia Ora,

::) Provided all my basic needs are met...What else is left for me to do but to continually pursue happiness in whatever form it takes...After all, who in their "right mind" would pursue/desire sadness ?  ;)

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on July 20, 2011, 01:55:14 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

::) "First Nation People" I meant what is commonly believed to be the indigenous Americans...Superman was a bloody alien[in the literal sense] who didn't even hold a green card  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

8 )Superman was adopted by the Kent's had a birth certificate issued as well as a ss#, graduated from high school and college. In all respect a full blooded American,oh! and is a fictional character.  >:-)

:police: As far as the American Indians, they were invaded, lost their land, and the war. So when I say and the "American way" I am referring to the USA.  :angel:

>:-) I fight for TRUE, as siproving the mumbo jumbo, enlightenment through sciences, a cosmological G-d.  :-*

  : I fight for JUSTICE, as I will not sit idle when somebody or anybody is verbally or physically attacked
  ::)

  :angel: I fight for the AMERICAN WAY, which for me is codified in the Constitution of the USA.  :angel:

  This is my personal take on life purpose  :-*

Kate D

We don't refer to them as "First Nation" we call them - as they call themselves - "Native Americans" - get your PC terms right before you write.

Quote from: tekla on July 21, 2011, 10:12:56 PM
We don't refer to them as "First Nation" we call them - as they call themselves - "Native Americans" - get your PC terms right before you write.

Kia Ora Tekla,

::) My humble apologies  :icon_bunch: I meant no disrespect to your people Tekla...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: kate durcal on July 21, 2011, 10:09:33 PM
8 )Superman was adopted by the Kent's had a birth certificate issued as well as a ss#, graduated from high school and college. In all respect a full blooded American,oh! and is a fictional character.  >:-)

:police: As far as the American Indians, they were invaded, lost their land, and the war. So when I say and the "American way" I am referring to the USA.  :angel:

>:-) I fight for TRUE, as siproving the mumbo jumbo, enlightenment through sciences, a cosmological G-d.  :-*

  : I fight for JUSTICE, as I will not sit idle when somebody or anybody is verbally or physically attacked
  ::)

  :angel: I fight for the AMERICAN WAY, which for me is codified in the Constitution of the USA.  :angel:

  This is my personal take on life purpose  :-*

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

::) What can I say to that..."You go girl !" [or is it supergirl ? ]  ;) ;D

Goodnight Kate....Sweet dreams...

Metta Zenda :)

I had to open this thread. Ugh. I have a lot of conflicting ideas in regards to this question. I once had a theory I believed summed it all up quite nicely and inclusively. The purpose of life is to find your own answer.

But as time went on I started finding my own ideas, and finding my own answers.

I'm spiritually questioning or confused. I don't know if I'm an atheist, agnostic, or spiritual. I therefore have various ideas to answer this question.

From an atheistic point of view, the purpose of life is to mature, reproduce (continue your genes and ensure the survival of your species), and die. Even death has an incredibly important purpose and life itself does not end there, because your body is left behind to return matter and energy to the universe and continue the process of life.

From an agnostic point of view, the purpose of life, simply put as before, is to find your own answer. There is no single, sole purpose of life as we all have our own needs and beliefs which cannot be forced upon anyone by anyone else.

From a spiritual point of view, I believe the purpose of life is to grow, to understand, to love, and to fight. To suffer in order to achieve happiness. To love yourself, others, the world, and the universe unconditionally. To remove selfish actions and to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. To continually learn about yourself, others, the world, and the universe both in a physical and spiritual way.

So, there are my three thoughts on the purpose of life. I'm often in a conflict between them but for the most part I can view them in unison. The first and third fit with the second because these are my answers. The first fits with the third because it is but one, physical way of understanding the purpose of life. The third, I think, envelopes the first in a feel-good, hippie, universalist kind of way.

life's purpose is to survive, and then die.  Just like any other animal.

Quote from: Elijah on July 23, 2011, 08:22:49 PM
life's purpose is to survive, and then die.  Just like any other animal.

Kia Ora Elijah,

::) Short & Sweet....Straight to the point...Nice answer....

Metta Zenda :)

Everyone must bring their own meaning to life. That's the point. Don't take anyone else's meaning. It has to be your own.

life's purpose is to survive, and then die.  Just like any other animal.

That seems pretty harsh, there are other options.  I'm guessing I'm going to die at some point, but I'd like to think I've done more than survive.  If nothing else I've had a hell of a good time, and at times I've brought some small amounts of knowledge, fun, art and entertainment into other people's lives.  I might be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride.  Other animals don't have the choice to be fabulous, adventurous, or any of the other things that humans can choose and accomplish.  So you can dream, create, explore - or you can finish life at home in your spare time.  It's your choice.

Pretty much, at least for me, it's about freedom, food and sex.  If you are not free, it will drive you nuts no matter how comfortable your life is.  Food is critical to life, freedom when your starving is over-rated.  And then there is sex.  It's the essential force in the universe, our little part in keeping the whole thing moving on.  It's the most human thing any two humans can do with each other.   Or it's just a good time.

Quote from: tekla on July 23, 2011, 10:23:15 PM
Other animals don't have the choice to be fabulous, adventurous, or any of the other things that humans can choose and accomplish.

Maybe the other animals aren't as impressed with us as we are with ourselves.  Those other animals do some pretty amazing things but it's all in a day's work for them.

As for fabulous...
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fih2.redbubble.net%2Fwork.4610880.2.flat%2C550x550%2C075%2Cf.decorator-crab-at-arkdive-okinawa-japan.jpg&hash=9dc425f41e3b2e8ad8ae2070bdd2436bea2329e7)

Life has no purpose.  Life is an ambiguous poorly-defined concept created by humans.

Only intelligent agents (i.e. self-aware beings) can have purpose.

"Purpose" and "Life" are a human concepts, ok. So you can make it what ever you wish. High and mighty, or very basic and mean (in the sense of ordinary and average).

As for me I do not think too much about MY purpose in life (female?).
If I could have had babies it have been to procreate I guess? And why not to buy LOTS of jewellery and nice outfits? :-)

Axelle

Quote from: kate durcal on July 21, 2011, 10:09:33 PM
I fight for the AMERICAN WAY, which for me is codified in the Constitution of the USA.

Well, it may be the American way, but it's not caught up with the 21st (or even the 20th) century.
Not to have any favoritism, but the German constitution has this to say:

Quote from: Grundgesetz, Art. 3, Abs. 1, Satz 1Männer und Frauen sind gleichberechtigt.

That is to say "Men and women have equal rights."

I've looked for this in the US Constitution but I can't seem to find it.
(The Equal Rights Amendment was first introduced in the US Congress in 1923.
In the intervening 88 years it has not been ratified.)

Maybe the other animals aren't as impressed with us as we are with ourselves.

That's why we invented nets, snares, traps, and guns.  Now let those animals laugh behind our backs.  We'll show 'em.

And I'm still pretty sure that on that huge cosmic level that there is no purpose at all.  That implies grand design and intentional creation, both of which look kinda hard to prove.  So I just leave it at: We're here for a good time, not for a long time.

Ser vie go, som werk for the gals to get done sen, ja "Gleichberechtigung" wunderbar, uhm.

However all this is actually put into reality is a different matter, ja.

I lived all through the 90s back in Munich and it was "business as usual" as at the time when I'd left in the 70s.

But... good intentions they sure are, with the initial version of feminism being rather unhelpful needs to be said too. (Just my take.)

Axelle

Quote from: Renate on July 24, 2011, 10:52:31 AM
Well, it may be the American way, but it's not caught up with the 21st (or even the 20th) century.
Not to have any favoritism, but the German constitution has this to say:

That is to say "Men and women have equal rights."

I've looked for this in the US Constitution but I can't seem to find it.
(The Equal Rights Amendment was first introduced in the US Congress in 1923.
In the intervening 88 years it has not been ratified.)

I knwo all the German I need: "Arbeit macht frei"

I moved this

Quote from: Narela on July 25, 2011, 06:16:57 PM
Today I went to my psychiatrist...

We told about my problems ...

1.- Gender dysphoria
2.- The purpose of life

and finally, she asked me, ''how we can help you''  ?=?

i said..
the problem with my gender = hormones
but I do not think with the purpose of life

This is my big problem... even get a woman's body, I know I will not be happy
i said this too.. 

for me, life hasn't a purpose, is to live to live ...   What is the purpose of life?!!!

Well there are three pages of replies here, pick whatever you like.

Two thngs:

-- there is no purpose that we do not find ourselves.

-- the purpose of all the action in the universe -- all natural laws, all creation, all evolution, all history, all life, all growth, all diversity -- is the expression of what may be.  We exist because of what happened before.  What happened before, happened because it was expressing itself.  We exist because everything in the universe(s) accidentally collaboraed to make us.  And the future will take its form because of how we express ourselves, how the gravity of stars expresses itself, how hydrogen expresses itself...

Richard Feynman used to go up to people all the time and he'd say "You won't believe what happened to me today... you won't believe what happened to me" and people would say "What?" and he'd say "Absolutely nothing".

Because we humans believe that everything that happens to us is special and significant. And that — and Carl Sagan wrote beautifully about that in The Demon-Haunted World — that is much of the source of religion. Turns out, everything that happens is unusual.  The likelihood that any person and I would ever meet, if you think about all the variables: the probability that we were in the same place at the same time, that we ate breakfast the same. Whatever. It's zero. Every event that happens has small probability... but it happens. 

So really the one thing that physics tell us about the universe is that it's big, rare events happen all the time — including life — and that doesn't mean it's special.

Or, this famous quote from Lawrence Krauss, also a physicist.
Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded. And, the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics: You are all stardust. You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded, because the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron, all the things that matter for evolution and for life - weren't created at the beginning of time. They were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way for them to get into your body is if those stars were kind enough to explode. So, forget Jesus. The stars died so that you could be here today.

Humans seem to have an innate desire to have an all powerful being in their belief system.  Not all, but most.  By creating this entity they make themselves special.  "When I leave this earth I will be taken to a special place that I deserve to go because I am so special that ending my existence is unthinkable."  So therefore there is a purpose for us being here, a mission we have to fulfill.  That's why we were sent here, to do something special, that no one else could do.  This exaggerated sense of self often justifies in our mind looking down on other people, judging them, criticizing them and even being cruel to them. 

I was driving along the highway to avoid rush hour traffic and I went under a tunnel.  I turned to my right and saw a cardboard box and a man was looking out of it at the passing cars.  Even without him being in a box, it was easy to see he was homeless.  In my more "special" era of life I would have parroted what I had heard so many times growing up, "BUM!"  But that day I tried to put myself in his place.  He was born just like everyone else and somehow, along the way, he ended up in a box under a bridge.  I doubt he ever said that that was his life's purpose.  But one could say his purpose was to make people realize we only have one life and how you live it will be how you enjoy it. 

The purpose of life is...life. Survival. Nothing more. The choice is in how we deal with that survival, can make it boring and a slow ride downhill, make it exiting and risk death at every turn, gather money like it has everlasting value, give of yourself till you have nothing left of yourself, or create little ones in the hope that they will make better choices than you did or somewhere in between.

These choices relate to happiness quite often. Sometimes as the cause of it and sometimes as the result of it.

Life is like a bowl of soup: you only get blown if you're hot. /shot

I think the purpose of life isn't set in stone. Everyone has to make their own purpose. (Lazies, we're not going to just make your purpose for you! Find your own.) If a person says their life has no purpose, then they're right. And if another says theirs is to be the salt of the earth (which is funny when you think about it), or to learn, or to just be happy, then they're all right, too.

It's all what you make of it.

Personally, my purpose is to live and have the best time doing so as I can.

All of Germany's history, achievements, hopes and dreams, obliterated by 3 words
Nope, all that stuff was obliterated by pure hate.  That's the power of hate, ten years of it can wipe out centuries of achievement.  Germany didn't make a bad political decision, they committed cultural suicide and pretty much took the rest of Europe with them.  Up to that time Europe was the dominant cultural, scientific, technological and financial power in the world, now that's shifted to China and the USA, and it's going to be a long time - if ever - before Europe regains that.

So many lies were spoken in German in the 20th Century that it will take two or thee more centuries before anyone can ever believe anything said in that language again.

The sign was over a nazi death camp; not over Germany itself.
The hell it wasn't.  That sign became the totality of German Culture.  Germany put it up, they have to live with it.  It may have only been at one camp (out of how many?  Oh say about 1,200 camps and subcamps in countries occupied by Nazi Germany) but that one camp becomes the symbol for all the camps, and with that Auschwitz, and it's three million people who died there (2.5 million gassed, and 500,000 from disease and starvation according to the camp's first commandant, Rudolf Höss) serves as the icon of the unspeakable horrors that Germany inflicted on just about everyone they came into contact with during the Nazi period.


Arbeit macht frei - which, by themselves are true
Work does not make people free, it does not liberate people.  What makes people free is the willingness to suffer the insecurity that freedom brings instead of trading it for comfort.

Though it's pretty hysterical that in part creating those slave labor camps to produce for the Nazi war machine went a long way toward losing the war for Germany.  Dig it.  Germany had an astronomical rate of weapons failures.  Particularly explosives, which after the people in the camps had assembled them had a tendency not to explode.  The slave workers did everything they could to sabotage production.* 

The American idea was slightly different.  We put women into industrial production.  Over 11 million women went to the factories and shipyards during World War II, Rosie the Riveter was the all-American girl.  And you know what they did?  They built the toughest >-bleeped-< ever tossed into combat.  US planes could get shot to hell, get half a wing shot off and still make it back home.  You know why?  Because those girls were not building those planes at the point of a gun under the orders of a self-proclaimed "master race," they were building them for their dads, their brothers, their sons, their boyfriends and the boy next door.  They also built ships - right here in the Bay Area.  How good were the girls?  The first ships required about 230 days to build (Patrick Henry took 244 days), but the average eventually dropped to 42 days. The record was set by the Robert E. Peary, which was launched 4 days and 15½ hours after the keel was laid.  Them girls rocked!  Pretty much they rocked twice.  They rocked once over here building the weapons, and then they pretty much rocked Germany into rubble when the weapons were delivered.  Work does not make you free, but free people do much better work.  Like everything else the Nazi's had it ass backwards.

But perhaps if we look at it another way work does make you free, by way of prisoners doing the work so badly, Germany lost and America showed up and liberated them.


* - At the Gustloff factory in Buchenwald, prisoners succeeded in systematically reducing the production of carbine barrels over a period of months, while at the same time wearing out enormous numbers of special tools. In Natzweiler, during the disassembly of damaged airplane engines, prisoners also damaged the parts that were still intact. At the Heinkel Works, young Russian prisoners from Sachsenhausen regularly removed valves that were extremely difficult to replace. In rocket assembly at Dora-Mittelbau, prisoners diverted materials being transported, disposed of small parts on the sly, rendered tools unusable, and welded seams in violation of all technical specifications. The success of such acts of sabotage rose in direct proportion to the extent the SS itself was involved in monitoring production
http://thirdreichseasternlegionsandpows.devhub.com/blog/534473-slave-labourers-and-sabotage/ (http://thirdreichseasternlegionsandpows.devhub.com/blog/534473-slave-labourers-and-sabotage/)

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 11:45:21 AM
* - At the Gustloff factory in Buchenwald, prisoners succeeded in systematically reducing the production of carbine barrels over a period of months, while at the same time wearing out enormous numbers of special tools. In Natzweiler, during the disassembly of damaged airplane engines, prisoners also damaged the parts that were still intact. At the Heinkel Works, young Russian prisoners from Sachsenhausen regularly removed valves that were extremely difficult to replace. In rocket assembly at Dora-Mittelbau, prisoners diverted materials being transported, disposed of small parts on the sly, rendered tools unusable, and welded seams in violation of all technical specifications. The success of such acts of sabotage rose in direct proportion to the extent the SS itself was involved in monitoring production
http://thirdreichseasternlegionsandpows.devhub.com/blog/534473-slave-labourers-and-sabotage/ (http://thirdreichseasternlegionsandpows.devhub.com/blog/534473-slave-labourers-and-sabotage/)

How brave is that?

How brave is that?
This is the sentence that blows my mind:
The success of such acts of sabotage rose in direct proportion to the extent the SS itself was involved in monitoring production

That's fearless.  Turns out when you strip people of everything they ever had and ever will have, they don't have much to lose anymore.

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 12:10:19 PM
Turns out when you strip people of everything they ever had and ever will have, they don't have much to lose anymore.

What's more, they didn't become nihilists and do nothing or take bizarre pleasure in destruction - nothing to lose except life and risking that to halt a little destruction.

True.  And insteed of asking a bunch of amatures like us about the purpose and meaning of life, everyone should read the masterpiece on the subject,  Viktor Frankl's book Man's Search for Meaning: From Death-Camp to Existentialism (originally published as trotzdem Ja zum Leben sagen: Ein Psychologe erlebt das Konzentrationslager).  Frankl chronicles his experiences as a concentration camp inmate and describes his psychotherapeutic method of finding meaning in all forms of existence, even the most sordid ones, and thus a reason to continue living.

It's one of about twenty books that radically changed my life.  After I read it in high school I pretty much shut-up about how bad my life was, and tried instead to find the good, and enjoy how well I really had it.

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 12:33:12 PM
I pretty much shut-up about how bad my life was, and  "tried" instead to find the good, and "enjoy" how well I really had it.

Kia Ora,

The "meaning" of life is debatable[there's no argument there  ;)] ...But for the most part one's "purpose" is quite obvious when one actually stops to "think" about it...

::) So in a sense you're agreeing with the Dalai Lama Tekla... "The purpose of life is[for the most part] the "pursuit" of happiness
[in whatever form ones personal happiness takes] ;)

::) Welcome to the club ! :)

Metta Zenda :)

I'm still sure it's an abstract noun and can't be pursued.

Quote from: tekla on July 24, 2011, 10:57:59 AM
Maybe the other animals aren't as impressed with us as we are with ourselves.

That's why we invented nets, snares, traps, and guns.  Now let those animals laugh behind our backs.  We'll show 'em.

Meanwhile bacteria feed on your cells, and the worms will eat you when you've died.

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 10:07:23 AM
So really the one thing that physics tell us about the universe is that it's big, rare events happen all the time — including life — and that doesn't mean it's special.

Just because big, rare events happen all the time, what makes you think they're not special? I find even the smallest, most common events to be special also.

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 11:45:21 AM
So many lies were spoken in German in the 20th Century that it will take two or thee more centuries before anyone can ever believe anything said in that language again.

The same could be said about Japanese, Chinese, Italian, Russian, French, and --oh horrors-- English. I guess we can't believe anything said in any language. Please stop thinking you are any better than the Germans. We're all human beings, and that's where the hate comes from.

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 12:33:12 PM
everyone should read the masterpiece on the subject,  Viktor Frankl's book... trotzdem Ja zum Leben sagen: Ein Psychologe erlebt das Konzentrationslager.

But... But... That's written in... German!

I don't understand why, on the one hand, you criticize people for believing in meaning in life, then, on the other hand, waving Frankl's book as changing your life. Frankl was all about finding meaning in life in order to survive, the very thing you criticize.

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 12:33:12 PM
After I read it in high school I pretty much shut-up about how bad my life was, and tried instead to find the good, and enjoy how well I really had it.

Are there negative emotions you've bottled up because of this? Maybe you should share some of those feelings. Perhaps you could get some of your anger out.

a sense you're agreeing with the Dalai Lama Tekla

or he's agreeing with me, after all, who's to say which is the higher level of reincarnation?  Perhaps if he's a very good Dalai Lama he can come back next time as a rock and roll stagehand in San Francisco.  I'll give the Dalai Lama this much, he's about the only religious leader who is constantly smiling, and on occasion even laughing.  Though he didn't get the joke about "The Dalai Lama walks into a pizza shop and asks "Can you make me one with everything?"  Perhaps though that's a language barrier/lost in translation thing.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

But... But... That's written in... German!
Yeah, but no one read it until he published it in English.  And indeed proof of what kind of shape Europe was in after the war, his founding of logotherapy, which is a form of Existential Analysis, and becomes known as the "Third Viennese School of Psychotherapy" really doesn't catch on in Vienna, or Europe.  It forms the basis for what's broadly become known as 'humanistic psychology' and that becomes centered not in the Old World, but in the newest part of the New World, California, specifically Big Sur.

Why not just go all the way and tell us that the camps didn't exist?

Now that my little darlings are in high school, the 16 yr old will be also starting college, You'd think that they have very little use for me anymore.

I found out today talking to my oldest that I need to be in their lives even more. I have no idea what the new world will bring? Technology ran me over and then backed up. But they need the reasons I kept on going. Why did I bother? Why did I take so many foolish risks? To Live, To be Alive!

Give me a purpose and I will do something else more important with it and if that fails I will make it something fun. It needs to be a purpose, you named it and gave it life. Just because your CPR didn't work, doesn't mean mine won't.

The Razor's Edge, a book, a great b/w movie, they even did it again with Bill Murray as the lead. It's worth reading and watching each one.

Ativan

Quote from: tekla on July 26, 2011, 07:12:34 PM
a sense you're agreeing with the Dalai Lama Tekla

or he's agreeing with me, after all, who's to say which is the higher level of reincarnation? 

Kia Ora Tekla,

::) ::) Let me see, Tekla or the Dalai Lama ?...Tekla or the Dalai Lama? Oooowoo Now that's an hard one... ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Pica Pica on July 26, 2011, 04:49:26 PM
I'm still sure it's an abstract noun and can't be pursued.

Kia Ora,

::) You're right Pica,[notice I didn't say  "skilful"  ;)] The word/term "Happiness" is an abstract noun one cannot sense, However what does create a "sense" of happiness can vary widely from person to person... Some people require a lot of their needs to be met before they experience a sense of well being, while others find happiness in simplicity.

::) In the conventional sense one important element of what one would normally see as an happy state, is a sense of "self"-satisfaction. I believe we have physical, and emotional needs[ and for many spiritual needs too] which need to be met in order to experience some degree of well being...

Consciously we tend to seek out or "pursue" things that will satisfy, and whether they be physical objects and or emotional states, from the moment we wake we are in pursuit of "self" satisfaction [or if you like "happiness"  ;) ]...For example this could be the first cupper of a morning [Ah... that nice cup of coffee or in my case green tea], and throughout the day  one is constantly on the lookout to please one"self" ...For many altruism seems to be a fool proof way to achieve this ...

::) Somewhat of a paradox I know,  :icon_yes: but life is full of contradictions  :icon_yikes: "Please others in order to please oneself !"  ::) I'm happy with that... ;) :D ;D

As you awake Pica so in my world I retire for the night...So good morning and have a nice day at work, rest or play...

Matthieu Ricard: Habits of happiness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbLEf4HR74E#)  Enjoy....

Happy Mindfulness :)

Metta Zenda :)

I guess that this all confirms the law that any internet dialog deteriorates into a discussion of Nazi Germany (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Nazi%20Theory%20of%20Internet).

My point was that the "American way" and the American constitution are not the pinnacle of human achievement.

The American constitution, although ground-breaking 200-plus years ago has aged.
Some constitutions written in more recent history are cleaner and more liberal.

The "American way" is usually just a call to arms for smugness.
Disparity between the haves and the have-nots in America is large and growing.

Quote from: Zenda on July 27, 2011, 01:42:46 AM
::) ::) Let me see, Tekla or the Dalai Lama ?...Tekla or the Dalai Lama? Oooowoo Now that's an hard one...

It's not that hard.  Tekla is obviously a very advanced spiritual being.

Perhaps we all have diferant objectives. The meaning of life is diferant from person to person?

Perhaps one person comes here to learn all about love, and anouther is here to learn about debauchery. Should either fail to embrace what they are here for they get to repete the process and reincarnate.

Quote from: cynthialee on July 27, 2011, 10:05:00 AM
Perhaps one person comes here to learn all about love, and anouther is here to learn about debauchery. Should either fail to embrace what they are here for they get to repete the process and reincarnate.

And I'm here to learn about being stuck in the wrong body.  What a great joy.

Quote from: VeryGnawty on July 27, 2011, 10:19:09 AM
And I'm here to learn about being stuck in the wrong body.  What a great joy.

Seems to be a common path around here.
;)

It's hard to say really, I know that I've had one of the great life experiences (twice) that the Lama is forbidden, and I'm very sure that he's faced a lot more sorrow than I have.  He is our current ages example of sitting on rivers of Babylon and remembering Zion, and as the song tells us, that is a profound sadness.

By the rivers of Babylon
Where we sat down
There we wept
When we remembered Zion

I used to live with this incredible woman; 94 year old, holocaust survivor, USSR escapee, who came to London and found all her husbands knowledge was useless and he felt useless, kept her family going and alive. Eventually her brother had a business that worked, she became a woman of leisure and became a painter, so successful she joined the Royal Society, auctioned round the world. Quit art because of the commercialism by storming out of an agent's calling her words I can't repeat here. - A woman who has lived - and she said the purpose of life was 'to create impressions on how it feels to be alive'. She also said the problem with ageing is that she feels less.

She does depressing pictures that filled the house, here is one

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.arcadja.com%2Fstrasser_dody-evening_landscape%7E300%7E10444_20091216_2009-12-16_166.jpg&hash=c9f32652118bbbdb0525293734a068c0a1cb28b6)

Quote from: VeryGnawty on July 27, 2011, 06:09:36 AM
It's not that hard.  Tekla is obviously a very advanced spiritual being.

I think we should build a religion around the teachings of the Prophet Tekla

Kate D

That's pretty much the last thing that anyone who is sane would ever want.

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 08:28:32 PM
That's pretty much the last thing that anyone who is sane would ever want.

We finally agree on something.

Sooner or later most people come to their senses and agree with me. Wait Long By the River and the Bodies of Your Enemies Will Float By.

Quote from: kate durcal on July 27, 2011, 04:24:56 PM
I think we should build a religion around the teachings of the Prophet Tekla

Hmmm.... Today's prophets do get a lot of perks, like a bevy of nubile young women.

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 08:28:32 PM
That's pretty much the last thing that anyone who is sane would ever want.

considering the perks, you may want to keep that under wraps.

like a bevy of nubile young women.

Yeah, I have a Latina GF, do you want me to get killed?

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 10:41:22 PM
Yeah, I have a Latina GF, do you want me to get killed?

That's the beauty of being a Prophet!  God is guiding you and you aren't responsible for anything you do.  Following God's will is your life's purpose, your destiny.  She can't argue that?

No one's a prophet in their own house.

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 11:21:03 PM
No one's a prophet in their own house.

Tell that to Wayne Bent and Warren Jeffs.  Then watch them perform a miracle.

The miracle is going to be if he can avoid spending a lot of time in jail.

Quote from: kate durcal on July 27, 2011, 04:24:56 PM
I think we should build a religion around the teachings of the Prophet Tekla

I agree, but only so as I can join in order to create a schism and found a sect based  on my interpretations of Teklas' meanings

The only two things that are attractive about a religion are TAX + FREE

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 11:26:01 PM
The miracle is going to be if he can avoid spending a lot of time in jail.

Okay, so when you take up the Prophet calling and God tells you it's okay to have sex with anyone under the age of 18, don't believe it.

I'll get a manager to check IDs at the door.  Just like rock bands do with girls on the bus.

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 11:27:22 PM
The only two things that are attractive about a religion are TAX + FREE

three: + hareem/seraglio situation of your choice as moral imperative

I'm currently being stalked by prophets on something I wrote about the eighteenth century prophetess Joanna Southcott.

Quote from: tekla on July 27, 2011, 10:33:29 PM
Sooner or later most people come to their senses and agree with me. Wait Long By the River and the Bodies of Your Enemies Will Float By.

Assuming you're at the right end of the river and you live long enough. Guess our agreement didn't last long.

To crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentation of the women.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 06, 2011, 11:15:30 AM
This is why an honest, open discussion of the camps--which most assuredly did exist--has never happened.

If someone brings up a minor, debatable point (ie, that Russian conscript prisoners working as forced laborers, facing a battalion of SS guards, were actually able to do enough damage to hurt the war effort), there are those who start screaming about "denying the holocaust".

Why the animosity? Why the refusal to even consider it? I like the idea of honest debate, that's where good things come from...good things, like accuracy in textbooks, children growing up to be adults with insatiable curiosity, and open, bald-faced lies ceasing to be accepted as truths. The holocaust has many such stories, only a few of which (the most egregious) have been accepted as false.

An example:
I underlined that part, because when the story first broke about 4 years ago, I wondered what the hell the publishers were thinking? A 5 year-old girl, able to shoot a German soldier, then flees into the woods and lives with a pack of wolves until the war ends. That would not be believable, even as a Disney movie! Yet, it was translated into 18 languages (which means, 18 different cultures of Jews and Gentiles were not able to put critical thought to the book and denounce it...she was found out only when she tried to make a claim for reparations against the (current) German government, and they asked for proof that she was Jewish...she isn't. That led to a closer scrutiny of her stories.)

Eli Wiesel's "Night" is admitted (by the author) to be a dramatic re-telling of what he experienced; the article I read (written by a Jewish source site; unfortunately I am unable to find the site) compared his writing to the legends in the Army, of soldiers throwing themselves on a grenade to save their comrades; "it doesn't matter if the actual facts or true or not, as long as the sense of devotion to one's fellow is preserved." (I paraphrase) In other words, a soldier could be killed while taking a dump, but rather than telling the truth, his friends (Wiesel in this case) would re-write the episode showing great heroism and valor. Yes, the friend dies (true and accurate) but the how/why has been changed to show a more...dignified...reason for his death (inaccurate, or even outright fabrication).

When one person's death is fabricated to save his dignity, or his descendants embarrassment, that's one thing...but the holocaust has become something much more than this. It's now used as a political and social tool to silence those who are critical of Jews, Israel, liberals, tolerance and diversity.

The holocaust has become a weapon. And as a weapon (and as a significant historical event), it must be able to be looked at honestly for its facts, and its flaws.

I do not give a rat ass what the camps slaves or prisoner did or did not do. I not even care whether the details of the accounts are exaggerate or embellished, no denying that at least  6 million of my people were murdered, that is a fact; nothing to discuss period. Never again that is all folks!

Kate D

FYI I am 1/2 German (Frisian German), 1/4 Spanish (Castillian-Catalan), 1/4 Jew. A number of my mother uncles and aunties, and extended families never made out of Terezin

Quote from: Beth Andrea on August 07, 2011, 11:24:41 AM
So, you're ok with a few lies then? If you're ok with a "few", so long as the holocaust is still considered "holy", then would you be ok with a "lot of lies", if that was what was needed to keep it "holy"?

And if there are a lot of lies used to prop up the holocaust...how much of it is true?

And are the Jewish people (as represented by you) willing to be thought of as liars, in order to keep something "holy"?

Be careful when you say you don't care about "exaggerations or embellishments"; credibility goes right out the window.

Neo-nazi rhetoric

Quote from: kate durcal on August 07, 2011, 10:29:31 AM


FYI I am 1/2 German (Frisian German), 1/4 Spanish (Castillian-Catalan), 1/4 Jew. A number of my mother uncles and aunties, and extended families never made out of Terezin

Kia Ora Kate,

::) 1/4 Jewish ...So according to your calculations you are more German than Jewish[and having an equal amount of Spanish to match your Jewishness]...And there I was thinking your "people" were "American" ...Now that's interesting.... ;) ;D

::) Your "personal" take on life is truly amazing Kate... ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

I have no claim to fame due to my relatives or friends etc etc etc and if i thought i did i am living their life and not mine. What i do is mine not anyone else's and visa versa

Quote from: Zenda on August 07, 2011, 02:36:54 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

::) 1/4 Jewish ...So according to your calculations you are more German than Jewish[and having an equal amount of Spanish to match your Jewishness]...And there I was thinking your "people" were "American" ...Now that's interesting.... ;) ;D

::) Your "personal" take on life is truly amazing Kate... ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)

The division of ethic origin is according to family lore. Several years ago I had my DNA analyzed by two independent companies. The did the typical Y markers (father line), mitochondria DNA (maternal lineage), and markers for each of the 22 autosomes (the other chromosomes). To my amazement and dismay not a single "Jewish marker" nothing, zilch, nada. No Spanish marker either (Catalan, Castillan or otherwise), and get this all my markers are in the Germanic Haplogrup, my paternal haplotype (sub ethnic group) is Frisian. As hard as was for me to accept this, genes do not lie. 

lyI was indoctrinated in the Catholic and Jewish religions, the Spanish culture, but also into the Dutch  ethics of work. I grew up and received my early education in Latin America, later on I spent some time in  Europe (Denmark and the Netherlands), and finally I came to the USA. Several decades ago, I swore an oath to defend the constitution of the USA, and my children were bone in the USA, so you see America is my home, but I do understand and "speak" several cultures.

Kate D

Quote from: kate durcal on August 07, 2011, 04:05:01 PM
The division of ethic origin is according to family lore. Several years ago I had my DNA analyzed by two independent companies. The did the typical Y markers (father line), mitochondria DNA (maternal lineage), and markers for each of the 22 autosomes (the other chromosomes). To my amazement and dismay not a single "Jewish marker" nothing, zilch, nada. No Spanish marker either (Catalan, Castillan or otherwise), and get this all my markers are in the Germanic Haplogrup, my paternal haplotype (sub ethnic group) is Frisian. As hard as was for me to accept this, genes do not lie. 

lyI was indoctrinated in the Catholic and Jewish religions, the Spanish culture, but also into the Dutch  ethics of work. I grew up and received my early education in Latin America, later on I spent some time in  Europe (Denmark and the Netherlands), and finally I came to the USA. Several decades ago, I swore an oath to defend the constitution of the USA, and my children were bone in the USA, so you see America is my home, but I do understand and "speak" several cultures.

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

::) So your so called sense of Jewishness is a choice...

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on August 07, 2011, 04:14:34 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

::) So your so called sense of Jewishness is a choice...

Metta Zenda :)

Not at all Honey; I grew practicing Judaism with my Mom's side of the family. Later on in life, I felt this religion (Judaism) provided me with  a nexus to G-d. What I told you above, is that I do not have Jewish genes in me, what that means is that some of my mothers ancestors (Germans) did convert to Judaism.

Kate D

Quote from: kate durcal on August 07, 2011, 04:31:04 PM
Not at all Honey; I grew practicing Judaism with my Mom's side of the family. Later on in life, I felt this religion (Judaism) provided me with  a nexus to G-d. What I told you above, is that I do not have Jewish genes in me, what that means is that some of my mothers ancestors (Germans) did convert to Judaism.

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

::) So like I said your Jewishness "is" a choice and not a birthright...[according to Jewish tradition]

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: Zenda on August 07, 2011, 04:41:58 PM
Kia Ora Kate,

::) So like I said your Jewishness "is" a choice and not a birthright...[according to Jewish tradition]

Metta Zenda :)

We have some Jewish books dating back to the 18Th century in the  Jewish family, so yo see dear Zenda, several generations of my ancestors were born into the faith. I may also educate you in the fact that once you have converted into Judaism, the matter is never brought up again.

But since you insist into the "choice issue;" let me tell you that I choose to be an American, and choose to be a doctor and a  scientist, so what? We all make choices, right? Some choose to be prostitutes some choose to sleep all day, or drink, or smoke, this is America baby, what ever takes it to make through the night. I for one have no regrest of my choices, and I will not blame somebody else for my poor choice or short comings. So, I tough the tone of your early posting was conciliatory, but you seem determined to pick up a bone with me, so bring on sista

Kate D

Kia Ora All,

::) My apologies if this thread as gone slightly off track...Feel free to continue posting "Your personal take on life's purpose !"...And if necessary just ignore the other unrelated stuff....

Metta Zenda :)

Quote from: kate durcal on August 07, 2011, 04:54:09 PM
We have some Jewish books dating back to the 18Th century in the  Jewish family, so yo see dear Zenda, several generations of my ancestors were born into the faith. I may also educate you in the fact that once you have converted into Judaism, the matter is never brought up again.

But since you insist into the "choice issue;" let me tell you that I choose to be an American, and choose to be a doctor and a  scientist, so what? We all make choices, right? Some choose to be prostitutes some choose to sleep all day, or drink, or smoke, this is America baby, what ever takes it to make through the night. I for one have no regrest of my choices, and I will not blame somebody else for my poor choice or short comings. So, I tough the tone of your early posting was conciliatory, but you seem determined to pick up a bone with me, so bring on sista

Kate D

Kia Ora Kate,

::) Now why on earth would I want to ridicule the choices you have made in life ?

I'm just stating from the somewhat limited knowledge I have of the Jewish faith, the Jewish heritage is handed down from the female side of the family...So if your German family "converted" to Judaism then in the eyes of Jewish Law you chose to become a member of the  "chosen" people [by default so to speak]... ;) 

Metta Zenda :)

Kate i was picking on you not Zenda. Zenda was just asking simple questions. I wondered why you were claiming all jews as your own. Like your a part of the holocaust. Hey i know 6 million were murdered. I also know 1/4 of me is german but i don't take the blame for the holocaust. My family came here hundreds of yrs ago but even if my relatives were natzis i wouldn't feel guilty for what they did. However, i do feel people are owed recompense for things that happened to certain nationalities such as jews, blacks and indians etc etc. 

so that was me picking on you if anyone was but i didn't think i was picking on you i really thought i was just making a point. Many times what one person says in making a point makes another feel they are being singled out or being picked on.. so really i wasn't picking on you but if anyone would be thought of the one in this page of this thread it was more me than Zenda and for that i apologize

Kia Ora Kate,

::) Just to give you a bit of ground to stand on...Some anthropologists believe Jewish people settled in Europe in the 1200s and also believe due to forced conversion-intermarriages-rape, etc[on the part of the non Jewish populations] over the centuries, quite a number of people of European heritage whose ancestors lived in big towns and cities of Europe could somewhere a long the line have some "Jewish" blood in them...


But then if we go further back in history some believe we are all of African descent...

::) One big happy "melting pot"  family  ;) ;D

Metta Zenda :)     

Quote from: valeriedances on August 08, 2011, 12:40:25 AM
It seems life's purpose is to suffer. And when we're done suffering for a while along comes some more.

So we suffer and suffer looking for an end to it. And hopefully we discover at some point that suffering can be optional ...maybe.

At least with all this suffering we can learn compassion, since we all get to experience it.

Kia Ora Val,

I just cut and pasted this from another thread...

The word dukkha is significant in Buddhism because of its association with the First Noble Truth1 -- that life is dukkha. To understand what the Buddha meant, it's important to understand what dukkha means. The word usually is translated into English as "suffering." But it also means temporary, limited, imperfect and unsatisfactory. In the Buddhist sense, it refers to anything that is conditioned. Something that is conditioned is not absolute or independent of other things. Thus, something beautiful and pleasant is dukkha, because it will end. For example, a new sports car is dukkha, because eventually it will be a rust bucket. Anything formed of the five aggregates [the Five Skandhas =Form-Sensation-Perception-Mental Formation-Consciousness] is dukkha. When the Buddha said that "life is dukkha," he didn't mean that life contains dukkha. He meant exactly that life is dukkha. Life is conditioned. Life is temporary and imperfect.

::) In  a sense life's "purpose" Val [according to Buddhism] is to end suffering...By following the middle path between the two extremes...

Metta Zenda :)