Oh my good god I'm so angry!!!!! I was participating in a mostly civil conversation about third gender people with a group of transsexual women (not on this site, so don't go looking...you won't find it) and all was fine...some folks were being quite heart warming with their comments in support of me (and us as a whole) and then storms in someone whom I will no longer use their "correct gender identity"...because that's how angry I am.
Apparently...we don't exist! There is no such thing as "third gender" there is only male and female, though this person does express that there must be a "grey area" between the two...though anyone who is in that grey are is still either male or female.
I has posted pictures to this forum and this person says that I look like a woman and a cisgendered one at that! This person then threw around female pronouns toward Memphis they were going out of style!
I started shaking so badly that my very very angry response was such a mess of spelling errors that it was illegible. I had to correct it. And in that response I said that if this person was going to refuse to accept my identity as i've stated it...I refuse to refer to him as a woman.
I know that I only hurt myself with such anger (and my dog who was so scared she ran off...) but...OMG.
So I need some of our lovely humor and...things. :(
There are lots of stupid people in the world and some of them are bound to be trans. Forget her. I'm sorry though :( HUGS!
**off to search for a funny picture**
Quote from: LilDoberman on June 14, 2011, 08:41:31 AM
There are lots of stupid people in the world and some of them are bound to be trans. Forget her. I'm sorry though :( HUGS!
**off to search for a funny picture**
Exactly. Let her stew in her own ignorance when the evidence is plainly right in front of her. And it's stupid for her to argue with you and to presume to tell you what you are/aren't when she hasn't a clue or an open mind. Let it go dear, it's not worth it.
I think some trans women identify even more strongly with the gender binary than the general population because they're trying to "prove" themselves. I mean that doesn't justify it but it is what it is. There will be lots of people who won't accept you for what you are (in a lot of ways), maybe this one will figure things out eventually.
Also, if she admits that there's a "gray area" I wonder how much of it is just what words she's using? I think the words aren't the most important thing.
I'm not telling you not to be angry, by the way. That is what it is too.
Stay calm.
You are upset, recognise it.
And I mean that. It is very important. YOU have you. ignore them.
Cindy
Thank you folks.
I've calmed down now. I just...sometimes it gets to be too much to constantly be "the bigger person". Some good sleeps, some good friends and I'm back to my peppy, positive person :)
i can understand that it upsets you, but remember this is a pretty random online meeting you're talking about, and the person in question is not someone whose acceptance you need to be able to be yourself. try laughing it off as stupidity equal to refusing to accept the existence of black swans even when being hacked in the stomach by one (if i'm allowed to express myself like this?), and let those who take you for who you are be the ones who matter to you
that rejection of your existence is what i feared meeting if i were to seek out any trans community. lucky thing i stumbled over this place, i seem to be acceptable here
Quote from: Sevan on June 14, 2011, 09:10:42 AM
Thank you folks.
I've calmed down now. I just...sometimes it gets to be too much to constantly be "the bigger person".
No one is always and I think sometimes it takes someone getting mad at you to realize you were wrong anyway.
You can always stop by my tree house and play on the rope swing...
Hey Sevan
Dealing with ignorant people is one of the most difficult things in life. It's hard to believe that anyone can be so amazingly stupid and still manage to remember to breathe. The word rage is a tremendous understatement of the level of frustration evoked by these folks.
Just because one is trans doesn't make them any brighter than your average schmoe on the street. The arrogance of the transsexuals who think that unless you've had SRS then you can't be a real woman is only one example of how hurtful and idiotic people in our own community can be. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere there isn't a chapter of the KKK made up entirely of transgender people. As Forest Gump's Momma says, "Stupid is as stupid does."
As for being the bigger person...forget that. You end up being the only one who ever notices. Instead, take care of yourself. Say what you need to say, be it a lot or a little (or a hand gesture), and move on. The old saying that teaching a pig to sing only does two things, frustrate you and annoy the pig, applies quite aptly here.
When someone has a closed mind, sometimes even a crowbar upside the head can't open it...as tempting as that is.
Hang in there, hon......Laurry
I am up for that treehouse, I'll bring the Cream Soda and Dolly Mixtures.
- and Sevan, we all know -
there are only boys
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clker.com%2Fcliparts%2Fe%2Fc%2F2%2Fb%2F1195422052411104677johnny_automatic_winking_boy.svg.med.png&hash=d91db8294bf275a7aaf6cb4fafbcd4dab826071b)
and girls
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sissykiss.com%2Fz%2Fuser%2F8%2F9%2F2%2F0%2F3%2Fmain.1306920261.jpg&hash=03ba48331ecc494c0a8a1aa84a98dcf35c960788)
and no one would be so dumb as to consider themselves something else
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa300%2Fcandiussell%2Ffam%2Fandrogynshirton.jpg&hash=a039262ef6e6bda84aa9116f9d485f93ee531c14)
Would they? ;)
Party at the Tree House! :icon_geekdance: :icon_dance:
Sorry Sevan. :( i always tell myself that people who hold others to such rigid standards hold themselves to the same, and at some point will get trapped because of their own ignorance.
You look great, don't let haters bring you down! ;D
Willow Smith - Whip My Hair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymKLymvwD2U#ws)
Quote from: Sevan on June 13, 2011, 08:44:45 PM
Oh my good god I'm so angry!!!!! I was participating in a mostly civil conversation about third gender people with a group of transsexual women (not on this site, so don't go looking...you won't find it) and all was fine...some folks were being quite heart warming with their comments in support of me (and us as a whole) and then storms in someone whom I will no longer use their "correct gender identity"...because that's how angry I am.
Apparently...we don't exist! There is no such thing as "third gender" there is only male and female, though this person does express that there must be a "grey area" between the two...though anyone who is in that grey are is still either male or female.
I has posted pictures to this forum and this person says that I look like a woman and a cisgendered one at that! This person then threw around female pronouns toward Memphis they were going out of style!
I started shaking so badly that my very very angry response was such a mess of spelling errors that it was illegible. I had to correct it. And in that response I said that if this person was going to refuse to accept my identity as i've stated it...I refuse to refer to him as a woman.
I know that I only hurt myself with such anger (and my dog who was so scared she ran off...) but...OMG.
So I need some of our lovely humor and...things. :(
Like Caseyy said, haters gonna hate, hon! Don't let it get to you. And you do look great. Okay, maybe at this point, you're still identifiably female bodied. But stay on T long enough, you may look male bodied. It's hard to find a mid point for you guys. You're doing the best you can within the medical constraints available to you. And you look perfectly androgyne. :)
A person doesn't have to look andro to be andro, thats like saying a person has to look female to be female. I don't think any transgendered people would agree with that.
Quote from: espo on June 14, 2011, 07:20:54 PM
A person doesn't have to look andro to be andro, thats like saying a person has to look female to be female. I don't think any transgendered people would agree with that.
Just in case this was in reference to my comments, let me clarify that that's not what I meant. I was responding specifically to the fact the person said Sevan looked like a cis woman. I don't believe looks necessarily correlate with identity at all.
Not directed towards you. Just a comment on the opening post.
Ah, okay. Sometimes I'm unaware of whether I'm using the wrong terminology or inadvertently being offensive in regard to androgyne (or any other group of which I'm not a part) issues.
My experience in this subforum and looking around the internet seems to be that even androgyne people don't use the words in exactly the same way, so you'd probably have to do something pretty bullish to upset someone, like...
It was a hard learned experience for me to question somebody in an acusition way, without at least looking at some of their posts in other topics. In other words, when in doubt about someones character here at Susan's, it pays to get to know them, first.
Ativan
Quote from: Forum Admin on June 14, 2011, 07:42:15 PM
Ah, okay. Sometimes I'm unaware of whether I'm using the wrong terminology or inadvertently being offensive in regard to androgyne (or any other group of which I'm not a part) issues.
Not a part because you're our king. :D
There's nothing like a good video to bring on the happiness:
Brennen`s Yes Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVouDl4lEC4#)
It makes me happy, at least.
There's no bother with saying the wrong thing, it's continuing saying that thing after that wrongness has been pointed out.
When confronted with people like this I have learned to question them to death, or the truth.
Like a 5 year old-("Why Mum? Why?Why?") "Why do you say that?" "What do you base that on?", "Have you experienced that yourself?" "Where did you read that?".
Either that or they give up and bugger off!
Karen.
While i was trying to find myself, i came across a group of the most pathetic TS's ever ran by a "Queen Bee" who you either agreed with everything it said or you where given the cold shoulder treatment. Now i am not shallow, so i dont have to post 20 or more photos a day on a website so all my clone friends can tell me how wonderfull i look, i dont own 50 pairs of shoes or wear high heels, as i prefer pumps and i hardly ever wear any make-up. It seemed because of this i just got labelled as just being a run of the mill TV, despite the fact that i hate coming across as a male, although i have no wish to become female either.
Over the years i have realise the only person i have to worry about is myself and i no longer care what cross section of gener identity i belong to, however these days i stick to and only comment on Andro sites, as not being TVor TS well i dont expect them to understand me, like i dont understand a small percentage of them.
Hard core binaryism is a (much much) smaller percentage of the cross section of humanity than is admitted to. It is easier for them to run with the rest of the flock.
"Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere there isn't a chapter of the KKK made up entirely of transgender people."
Wikipedia estimates that there are 5k-8k members, so while there may possibly be enough members to make up a small chapter, it is unlikely they would live close enough together for such an arrangement to make sense.
I've met some TSs in person, and a minority (not a large one, but not trivial) have insisted on the necessity of expressing within at least some gender norms, at least those who identify as men (I don't know how they would react to third/alternate/free genders), and a contingent of them would keep getting the gender wrong. It would be hard for me to compare these kinds of numbers with the general population, because (1) I don't interact with the general population in the say way (not that I intend to treat people differently, but I'm waiving some of my usual requirements for talking with other people when I'm attending a gender association meeting or the like, and the purpose for gathering is usually a bit different than my other gatherings), and (2) TSs and the general population have different experiences. However, if I am expressing in a particular gender nonconformist way, I would feel less likely to face violence from random TSs than random people, so at least on some level I wouldn't want to overemphasize the intolerant TS faction -- granted, this is a perception based on some level of prejudice, but I'm inclined to think that even bigoted TSs would generally at least have some sympathy, even if they're getting it wrong.
Like with Pica, I'm not particularly concerned with the words as much as the attitude behind those words. If you can politely notify a person about your gender, and they'll get it right in the future (with perhaps a flub or two along the way, followed by some humility after being corrected), then I think the person can be good to work with. If you can reasonably/safely do so, it's a good idea to give someone the benefit of the doubt, because you are always going to be uncertain about their particular circumstances, and it would be preferable to give them the opportunity to prove themselves before casting a strong or specific judgment on them.